24x36 Barn Style (Gambrel) Project....

[WileyBee]

Hey everyone, I'm new here and wanted to update everyone on my ongoing project.

I'm in Kaufman, Texas about 10 miles from Cedar Creek Lake.  My wife and I are living in a travel trailer while I build the house.  It's been about 2 months now. Hopefully it won't be too much longer (yeah right).

I do have a question for anyone willing to take a shot at it.  

When I built my trusses for the room I used 1/2 in plywood for the angle braces.  I wasn't thinking when I put up the end trusses and now I have the 1/2 in braces sticking out on a wall that's supposed to be flush.  I haven't built my end walls yet cause I'm not sure what to do about it.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  I'm using 4x8 sheets of HardiPanel for siding.

Thanks everyone, nice forum you've got here.

[mclausen]

I am not sure how much overhang you have on the eave, but you could continue with the idea of the 4x8 hardiplank and cut out around the plywood gusset so the whole exterior surface is flush.  I would then purchase or make some sort of aluminum low profile vent to cover up the gusset.  Or, you could also use some horisontal lap siding on the top just under the eave to create a little architectural look that would cover it.  Just some ideas....

[peg_688]

Just remove the outer gusset frame your gable ends up flush framing to framing . I'd use  T1-11 5/8" blanks , or grooved T1-11, as the sheathing/ siding  to provide some sheer.  Sheet Hardi would not / could not provide the sheer you are lacking. The T1-11 would become the exterior gusset

 I've never seen a place roofed before the side walls where sheeted, yes I see the 2x bracing  but I hope you don't get any windy weather before you get a chance to get some sheathing on those walls.  

 That would scare the devil out of me , which would be a good thing , but you know what I'm saying    

 All in all it looks good , nice and clean

G/L PEG

[Amanda_931]

put a little collar-tie like brace like you've got on the top, then knock/rout off the 6 1/2 gussets on the outside?

Given the way you've already got your roofing on, I guess you can't put 1/2 plywood strips on the rest of those outside trusses.

Oh, phooey, PEG's already answered the question the right way.

[peg_688]

Sorry Amanda   The routed in flush gusset would be cool as well

[WileyBee]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies.  I'm not sure what a gusset is, but I think you're talking about the plywood bracing at the angles of my trusses.  If not, please explain.

I think the plywood is the way I'll have to go.  The plywood braces are glued on with gorilla glue and nailed with quite a few 2in ring shank nails so knocking them off without damaging the truss is not an option.  Possibly routing, but that would very labor intensive I think.

I'm considering going with vinyl siding after a conversation I had with a siding guy today regarding Hardi products and his experience with them.  Plus the plywood sheathing I'd have to put on to accomodate the vinyl siding would eliminate my problem because I'd just cut out the plywood to match where the braces already are.

The reason I didn't already have up the end walls is because the opportunity to roof the house presented itself sooner than I expected, and since the gambrel style roof is self supporting and extremely sturdy after the osb is put on, I went with it.  Hoping to get the side walls up and sheathing on by this weekend though.

As you can tell, I'm really new to all this so all ideas are greatly appreciated.  Just remember to keep it simple for me while I learn the lingo.

[peg_688]

 I still just knock the gusset's off there only 6 total . Pull the nails first witha catspaw then use a chisel / flat bar / sawsall to cut / bash / remove the 6 gusset's.

 Was the siding guy a Vinyl siding sales men / sider?

 I'm not sure which I dislike the most Vinyl or Hardi :-/ :-/

 Your in a bit of a pickel at that roof to wall detail thats for sure .

  The vinyl more then likely (MTL) will give you the best result / options based on what I can see from the photos.

 At this point something will have to be compromised, a vinyl trim piece would be the best way out IMO at this point.

G/L PEG

   

[WileyBee]

He said he installed both Hardi and Vinyl.  I was thinking the same thing until he said he did both.  I doubt it's a money thing at that point considering Hardi is about $20 to $25 per sheet.

I'd be interested to know what you dislike about both types.  I was under the impression that Hardi was sooo good, but I hear more and more it's not what it's cracked up to be.

The only bad experience I can say I really had with vinyl is when it becomes brittle.  Might have been real old or cheap vinyl. Can't really say.  Hopefully the newer stuff holds up a little better.

Ahywho,  thanks for the info Peg.

[peg_688]

I'd be interested to know what you dislike about both types.

 My biggest beef with both is overall looks , they don't look like wood , I'm a wood guy , like wood , like to work with wood ,etc etc.

 I've installed both , more Hardi than plastic / vinyl.

 I  have a real problem believing a manf. when they tell me the product does not  swell then tells me to gap the boards :-/ :-/ cement 3/16 to 1/4 "

 I've repaired Vinyl that was flopping in the wind due to failure of the interlock , I've  had to redo the enter wall every time I've remodeled a house with Vinyl due to MASSIVE fading on a product that won't peel fade nor crack , again  I have a hard time dealing with those results when the Manf. sez they don't happen .

 Wood on the other hand is honest , you need to use the right wood for the right job . You need to know it will fail if you don't follow normal maint . practices . Good wood is hard to find , knowing what wood is right , I guess, is also hard if you haven't worked with it for 30 years or more . That is a down side for some , research what wood's are good for what can be a PITB this forum is a good start . Wood also is generally more money but to me and this is just MO , it is worth it .

 So thats the short answer Theres more but enought is enought    

 Oh ya and  vinyl's a PITB to spell  Where as Cedar , Redwood , Mahogany, Cherry just roll right off the key brd.

PEG

[Amanda_931]

Maybe I don't have as much against Hardi-stuff.  Member of the forum in Australia--where the termites make the nasty Formosan ones (the kind in Hawaii, Louisiana, and, I understand, just about to head into my part of Tennessee) look about as harmful as butterflies--used it, but not in an area where had to handle shear forces.  He's a lot greener than I am.  

But if you are going to have to put up sheathing and then the siding?  That really seems like overkill.

Vinyl is ugly.  IMHO.  And every once in a while somebody runs into some out-gassing problems with it.

T 1-11, especially the all-plywood kind, does everything in one piece, sheathing and siding.  It can be painted or stained--or not.

My house in Nashville had it.  And I rather liked that little place.  The T1-11 was unfinished when I bought it, and it stayed that way.  Weathered out pretty nicely--maybe 20 years on the siding by the time I left.

and yes, the gussets are the plywood jobs on the trusses.

racking, or depending on your point of view, shear, are things you'd rather not deal with in your building.  There was supposed to be a two-story apartment building in Nashville that as it was going up the supervisors would come by and  say "that's not straight" as they held up a level.  "No, you're right" said the framers, and went and jumped on the other side until it straightened--until the next breeze came along.  That's the kind of thing we're talking about.  I don't know what they eventually did with it.  

What are you using that gambrel part for?  If it's supposed to be insulated and have a ceiling you may have some other challenges as well.

[glenn-k]

Hi WileyBee.  I'm not sure if you caught what PEG was concerned about,  but keeping it simple as you requested, the roof is self supporting as you mentioned and is also a giant sail.

It is very important that you get some boxed plywood or OSB sections on the lower studs from the floor/foundation area to the bottom of the roof- top plate area, or if a medium sized wind comes up it will hinge on the bottom studs and fold down to the ground.  You need solid diagonal bracing to keep that roof up there. The bracing I see in the picture is inadequate to take a small to medium amount of wind.  The work really looks great and I'd hate to see you lose it.
(You don't want to scare the devil out of PEG-- He's way too much of an angel otherwise. )

[jonseyhay]

If you are using 1/2 ply sheathing on that wall, you could simply make a template of the gussets and cut the sheathing in that area around the gussets already there.

The Hardie products in my opinion are an excellent building material, but like Pegg says they are not wood, The thing with these materials is to design with them in mind and not use them as a cheap substitute for wood. Although they are reasonably stable, they like timber still need regular maintenance to keep them looking good. Hardie sheet products do have some sheer/bracing properties if the right nailing pattern is used. If you go to the links already provided here http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1151641785/0 and download the tech manuals for those products, you will find all that information there. The Hardie web site also has some good information on designing using their products.

[peg_688]

Jonsey's you sure that's not a Aussie web site ?
 
Some of those product's are not avaialbe in my area .

Here's a US / Ca site ,

 http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner/installation/hardiplank_installation.php

 Briefly , as I'm headed out to work ,

 GENERAL REQUIREMENTS

Hardiplank® lap siding can be installed over braced wood or steel studs spaced a maximum of 24" o.c. or directly to minimum 7/16" thick OSB sheathing*. Hardiplank lap siding can also be installed over foam insulation up to 1" thick. Irregularities in framing, sheathing, and/or foam insulation can mirror through the finished application.

 


 I couldn't find the sheet Hardi info , not enought time , look around that US / Ca. site  MTL it's in there.

G/L PEG

[jonseyhay]

Pegg the link I have given is the Australian home site. Not all of the products on there will be available in the US at present but you will probably see them come on stream soon. If you look under each separate product description, you will see a link to the tech manual there. Although Hardie has been supplying some stuff to the US market for some time, they have only recently moved in big time. All of the tech information supplied on their site complies with Australian and New Zealand building codes and I would think would also be valid over there as well. Most of our standards down here are taken directly from the US.
Here is the link to the PDF tech file on the Hardie plank that you would be using. There is a range of about 7 or 8 different plank available down here as well as a whole bunch of sheet products.
PDF Warning.
http://www.jameshardie.com.au/NR/rdonlyres/F026CCD6-FFF4-43C2-8385-5E693639C658/0/ExternalCladdingTechnicalSeptember05.pdf
Here is the link to their library. You will find information on Structural Bracing, Bushfire Construction, wet areas and a heap of other stuff in there.
http://www.jameshardie.com.au/ResourceCentre/BrochureLibrary/

[WileyBee]

Thanks for all the good info guys (and gals )

I had read some info from that hardi site prior to selecting it.  That's one of the reason I went with their products.  However due to my lack of forethought and more than one persons concern about using only Hardie Panels over the studs, I think I've decided to go with the vinyl siding.

Making the template of the gusset and cutting it out of the plywood was just what I was thinking.  That seems to be the easiest thing to do at this point.  Then I can just install my siding over the outside of the ply.

It may or may not end up being cheaper which is a big concern for me right now, but I think even if the money evens out, the labor savings over the Hardi would probably make up for the difference.

[bil2054]

WileyBee, Hardie does have sheet goods available here in the US.  If you go to their site and click on info for vertical siding you'll find it.  It is a shear rated product, if you think you might still be interested.
I'm considering the stucco finish, myself.  I agree with PEG; if I want a wood look, it's hard to beat real wood, but I also like stucco, and not sure I want to learn a whole new trade this late in the game. [smiley=wink.gif]

[WileyBee]

Hey guys, long time no post...


Well, I've made some good progress on the house.  I'll post some pics soon. I've got the exterior plywood sheathing on, housewrap and windows done.

However I have a quesiton...

We got some much needed rain today here around Dallas and now I have water behind my housewrap and moisture on the interior of my walls in several places.

I thought this stuff was supposed to be water proof?  If not, what's the point.  I followed all the instructions like proper lapping and using capped nails vs. staples, etc...

Anyone else have this problem?  What should I do about it?  I've tried to look at where it appears water is entering and can't find any holes in the wrap or improper lapping of the wrap.   :-/

[WileyBee]

Just thought I'd post an update pic...

Still wondering about that housewarp problem.  Also can't seem to get my windows to stop leaking.  Used lots of silicone caulk and lapped the house wrap and a piece of tar paper over the tops to keep water from coming in behind the flange.  Water's still getting in.

I'm thinking it's that stupid flashing tape I put on before I put the windows in to seal the house wrap edges.  I think water's getting in behind the housewrap and coming in behind that flashing tape.

VERY frustrated!!!!!

[glenn-k]

Hi Wiley Bee -- the house wrap thing -- we have had several discussions about it.  It has had quite a few problems and consensus is pretty much that felt is better.  A roofer said not to mess with anything but 30 lb felt (tar paper)- some people like 15 lb.  House wrap is supposedly breathable to vapor but get water behind it and it pretty well doesn't come out until it rots its way out.

I just came back from a visit in Oregon last month where I heard that 2 new apartment complexes had to be torn up for repairs in a few years after built because of Tyvek - mold etc.  To me the new unproven high tech product having problems this soon and the old proven felt not having problems says use felt.

Links to previous discussions

http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1140662724/0

http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1141958187/7#7

http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1140662724/37#37

If you already see a problem and don't want to put on felt, then I would at the very least do some sort of a screen wall if possible - put vertical spacers - lath strips? or thicker if possible between the siding and the Tyvek to allow drainage of most of the water that makes its way behind the siding.