I'm playing with some ideas and I came across a Dog Trot in Dale Mulfinger's "The Cabin" (for those who know the book).
It's two simple cabins, covered by one gabel roof. Between the two is a open air deck. By guessing, the deck (running east west) is 16' by 44'. A 12' x 24' is on the north end and a 12' x 18' on the south end. This could easily be two versions of John's Small House.
But I'm trying to think through how to support the gable roof span across the 16' between the two. I know some of you must have some good thoughts.
(http://www.digitalstoryteller.com/IMG_5192sm.jpg)
(http://www.digitalstoryteller.com/IMG_5193sm.jpg)
I'm thinking headers from corners to corners then standard joists or trusses.
Quote
But I'm trying to think through how to support the gable roof span across the 16' between the two. I know some of you must have some good thoughts.
(http://www.digitalstoryteller.com/IMG_5192sm.jpg)
(http://www.digitalstoryteller.com/IMG_5193sm.jpg)
A LVL or Paralam would do the job . Go to your suppier / lumber yard a good one. not Lowes or Home depot . and they can or should be able to size your beams based on your location , potentail snow or lack there of loads .
If your in a earthquake zone ask about required Brace Wall Panel Requirements , for window and door placements , and req. hold downs etc that will / could be required . Good Luck , PEG
I'd screwed up what I was going to say and it didn't make a lot of sense anyway.
There was a lovely two-story log cabin at the bottom of the hill, with a dog-trot on the first story only. One of our local arsonists may have gotten it. In any case, it burned.
The dog-trot part was probably closer to 10 than 16 feet, though.
I've thought of this same project as a great expansion of the 14' wide little house.
You could span a beam (built up or LVL) at the ridge and side walls as headers and then have exposed rafters using shiplap sheathing for a nice underside look. Then, depending on climate, I'd drop in 2 to 4 skylights per the sliding glass door units in the Skylight and Greenhouse plans (that come with the Enchilada set).
You could set one up as the bedroom wing and the other as Living room or main social module.
Per the plan above... At the end of the long deck extension you could have a third (perhaps future) stand alone cabin as the office or guest house.
It would make a sweet little compound.
Thanks for the thoughts ...
Sometimes I mis read so let me be sure I understand. Use the LVL or similar as a 16' ridge and headers....over the open area? if so, then what's the best way to tie into the end walls/ridge of the cabins. A joist-type hanger? Or are you thinking a LVL longer than the 16' gap?
Climate is southern Iowa: some sub zero in the winter, some high 90's summer. Two really nice days in between.
;)
Fritz . A couple of questions first .
#1 Do you see the covered deck area as John discribed as open to the under side of the roof sheathing .
#2 What would the ceiling in the cabins (enclosed ) areas be like ? Vaulted , flat w/ DW lid ?
#3 How much experience do you have in cutting rafters / beams if option #1 is selected .
Much of const. details are driven by design/ function . You'll need to figure out what you'd like to have .
If your wanting truss's for the full roof all you'd need would be two LVL or solid beams , or a built on site header/ beam that would flush out with the under side of top plates . Then your top plate could run from the walls over the top of those beams , in the open area . That would give you a positive connection from the cabin walls to the open area . All this is complicted if the cabins have a truss roof and the open area has a thicker roof sheathing than the cabins . Hence the above questions . PEG
QuoteFritz . A couple of questions first .
#1 Do you see the covered deck area as John discribed as open to the under side of the roof sheathing .
#2 What would the ceiling in the cabins (enclosed ) areas be like ? Vaulted , flat w/ DW lid ?
I do see something like what John described -- and probably something similar in both cabins. I'm also looking at small lofts within the cabins per the little house plans. The finish will be more rustic than polished, so exposed rafters and collar ties was the plan.
Quote
#3 How much experience do you have in cutting rafters / beams if option #1 is selected .
What I lack --- I have friends. But with the 12/12 roof, I'm leaning towards subbing parts or all of the roof out. before I sub it out, I just want to think it through..so I know what to ask for.
Ok How will you insulate the roof if you go with the exposed to the interior roof sheathing ? I'm thinking you'll want to insulate , in Iowa , the exposed roof sheathing. This makes it more work , will mean more $ , it can be done it's just not the cheapest way to do it and Generally you end up with very wide facia and rake brds.
So the next question is a $ question, are you willing to pay more for the look you have sort of lead us to ?? Just in material it will cost more , there are other ways to do it with stress skin pnls , and again they cost more tham a vaulted roof truss w/ conventional insulation . Sorry to ask so many questions but to give good advice , sound in it's content and contex , all these ? need answered for the plan to move forward / take shape . PEG
Let's see if I can give a better idea. I won't insulate the open area -- so visible sheathing and rafters and collar ties in the open area.
In the cabins, yes an insualted roof -- but the same rafters and same thickness sheathing over cabins -- but insulated with bats or similar (so probably 2 x 8 rafters per the little house plans) Haven't gotten to thinking about cabin roof interior finish in detail -- but maybe ply, or beadboard.
This will be a retreat mostly 3 season, with occasional winter use.
I'm thinking of a metal roof -- and your point about sheathing thickenss is well taken.
I would use nothing but simple rafters, perhaps as small as 2 x 8's (depending on snow loads, etc) each 16' long. They would be placed the "wrong direction" .... horizontally, looking just like stepped floor joists, the full width of the breezeway. For the most strength, the joist-like rafters would be upright at perhaps 2' centers ... measured horizontally. Actually these should be spaced to tie into the studs of the end walls.
On the tops of these, you would need to block in some nailers, perhaps on-side 2 x 4's, in the normal rafter direction ... for attaching sheathing.
I wish I knew how to include a sketch so this might make some sense.
That's revolutionary, JRR -- count on you to come up with good ideas. Like purlins on a steel building. I'll see if I can do a simple sketch in paint.
Here it is -- a painfully ugly little sketch to look at but I think it shows the idea.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/dogtrotpurlins.jpg)
Brown = purlins or joists -- Blue = nailers
I don't know why I didn't think of this-- I do it all the time with steel and have even made a carport that way at my other house with wood-- I was just thinking conventional house framing --- silly me -- just shows you how far the brain damage has progressed. :-/
Ok So how do we get a R-30 or 38 in a 2x8 rafter bay ? And if we use the purlin idea our T&G 2x6 decking is now running up the roof not perpendicular to the flow of the porch .
John chime in anytime :)
We are drifting off task , which is fine , design is the time to drift , once ya start changes sort of grow on ya, in a bad way one change here effects yadad yada , etc . Unless your remodeling then you flex to what the building sort of gives you as a / the lead.
Ok now theres a word lead , is it metal or direction , contex / content drives that word . A hound that is in front of the pack all the time might be called Lead , one that was always last could be called lead , the almost perfect word to show contex vs content . Apples to oranges / apples to apples.
So fritz now will dwell on JRR revolutionary idea. It does turn the whole project on end so to speak , at least for how it looks .
Rethink those ideas lads , on the above facts / situation and the clients vision . fritz is the boss , it's his dream/ vision. Our job" If we choose to take it is " Now listen to the theme of Mission Impossible , is to #1 Destroy the tape . #2 complete the mission . #3 Call Martha Steward . # 4 Ask John for HELP!!!
That was fun , PEG
Do away with the nailers, fix the iron straight to the purlins. If the structure is open both sides there is no point in insulating the roof.
jonesy.
:)
I guess being a 12/12 pitch it would be a bit steep for the purlin method as they would be laying over at a 45 degree angle. If it ends up being a metal roof then this would work as Jonesy and JRR mentioned. I guess that does look like a tin roof, doesn't it, and Fritz was thinking of a metal roof which is normally installed on purlins on many buildings -no need for sheathing actually so that in itself will cut costs. As far as that goes - purlins could be used over the cabins also -again sheathing not required for metal roof as long as bracing requirements are met. 1x4 purlins over joists have to be cheaper than solid sheathing. He is planning bat ceiling insulation so sheathing or lack thereof will not be visible anyway.
What is the purpose of insulating a space that has free air flow through it? It doesn't seem that you would commonly insulate a breezeway roof.
In the original posting I only see decking on the porch deck - not on the roof.
I think part of our mission may be to come up with other options that may be more affordable - desirable or just a plain different way to do it. Building methods are not set in stone until the owner has a method fixed in his mind, down on paper and contracted to be done a certain way or in the case of a DIY, materials and plans set for a certain way. Much easier to make changes in methods before the job is in progress - this includes thought changes. After that changes cost money and even value engineering can at least cost some to get the engineer or architect to redesign it in a more cost effective fashion, thereby reducing overall cost but increasing revenue to the designer.
Ok I'll try one more time [highlight]read the whole post see the clients desires [/highlight]. Make those desires afford able and build able , for the client .
Yes I see we do not need to insulate the dog trot but if we are using 2x6 T&G car decking to make this area a roof- able surface and a good looking to the eye porch ceiling , yet we have to tie that into two other small building / rooms that need to be insulated to at least R-30 min with a potential loft area , for the area in question . How do we tie it all together so it sound as a unit / tied together/ strong .
And is buildable for a client who has "friends" to do the more tech building part . And affortable.
Contex / content design can make it Mission Impossible / to big . to complicated / to much detail / not enought detail . All can make it a failure , can I build something with nothing , no , we need a plan, a starting point , a objective / goal . Planning . PEG
Glenn, your sketch is on the money.
But before you give me any credit for being a thinker, perhaps you should know that during a vacation ride through Alabama ... we visited a state park ... known for its long old wooden covered bridge ... and oh yes, there was also an authentic "dog trot house". Could be that that particular breezeway roof was supported in this fashion.
"Some of my best original ideas ... are ones that I've stolen from others".
JRR
First, I'm excited to see the interest. I hoped I wasn't asking an obvious question, and looking at the replies, I like what y' all are thinking. At least I have the winter to work through this on paper before having to plunk down cash for materials.
PEG's last post described the "problem" very well. I want to be sure the roof load is well carried and doesn't put the wrong stresses on the two cabin end walls that make up the ends of the open area. (Do you call that a breeze way? I guess that's what I would call it.)
Okay, also, to be sure my "metal roof" is the same as your "metal roof", The roof I'm thinking of is the standing seam metal roof, not a corugated roof as in the original photo for the design book.
JRR's plan seems straight forward. I might think about using 2 x 10 for the end rafters of the cabins to be able to nail a hanger for the "roof joists" (purlins).
Then, thinking cosmetics (and some function) if we use the 2 x 4 nailers, flat, but running the typical rafter direction, the roof can be secured and then, from the underside, there is a nailing surface to nail a ship lap or other ceiling between the roof joist/purlins.
I played with some sketches yesterday. Here's some basic ideas. This cabin is in farm / cattle country -- the site is in a small valley visible from the highway. Since it is an occasional use property, I want to be able to secure it when away, but have it be very open when in use, so I'm thinking of sliding barn doors over the breezeway entrances -- as well as over the doors/windows on each end. (This will require a beefy header/nailer to hang the barn door track.)
The small side windows echo barn design....it blends in with the surroundings. But not everyone wants to live in a barn. ;)
Anyway, the colors aren't final -- although, it looks really good in barn red!
(http://www.digitalstoryteller.com/GrandRiverDogTrot.jpg)
Again, many thanks, I really enjoy reading your ideas.....
Does the middle have to be tied to the end pieces? You could tie the bottom together, but I think it would be interesting to raise the middle roof a bit higher than the ends? This is a long structure that would benefit with a little breakup of the rooflines imho. A little overhang under the open space and a little overhang over the ends. Use some interesting posts for the open area and you have the look of the structure being built at different periods of time. Or...make two pieces of the whole thing, one with the open area attached the other just an end piece with overhang ( you could step up or down one step to get into this section. Just thinking from a different angle here, of course I have no idea on the details of framing that all up.
Heh, wrote that one while you were writing yours..I see we are two ships in different directons :D
Anyways..here is one with two pieces:
http://www.wheelerplantation.org/early_dogtrot_cabin.htm
Here is a compound project using dog trot influences:
http://themeridiancompany.com/cms/view.php?offset=1&sort=The%20Trot
[highlight]And let me try once again, PEG.
Let creativity flow by allowing comments and ideas from all members. Please add your ideas without putting down the ideas of the other members. No one is off topic as Fritz's original comment was "But I'm trying to think through how to support the gable roof span across the 16' between the two. I know some of you must have some good thoughts."[/highlight]
There are a million ways to do things. If the interested party is not yet set on a method and has not presented some of the ideas he is thinking of, we cannot know what may be of benefit and what may not. All ideas should be presented then Fritz can take the good ones, toss the bad ones and have the most efficient cost effective structure possible.
Since JRR saw the purlin method in use on an actual building, it is obviously a viable alternative. Bracing could be incorporated into the end cabins with the purlins only supporting the steel roof sheeting. It could be screwed to the sheeting with neoprene sealed screws for strong fastening and long term water tightness. The sheeting visible below through the purlins would have a nice look to it and Fritz would save the cost and time of installing sheathing possibly on the whole house with the exception of that required for bracing.
A header could be put across the door openings to support the doors, but being non bearing in the purlin method, it would not have to be so deep thereby opening up a little more headroom in the breezeway.
Lets kick around lots of ideas -even crazy ones - not just one method we have set in our mind.
If I understand what you are talking about correctly, Fritz, the steel sheeting will still need horizontal supports approximately every 4 feet minimum and you may go down to every 2 depending on the sheeting and loading. 2 x 4 nailers, flat, but running the typical rafter direction would not provide that support. You could fasten to the horizontal ones although for insulation and interior finish fastening it seems you would want to be lower down on the side or bottom of the joist -side if the joists are deep enough and you want the joist to show some. Standing seam metal should be self venting above the insulation depending on the configuration.
QuoteDoes the middle have to be tied to the end pieces? You could tie the bottom together, but I think it would be interesting to raise the middle roof a bit higher than the ends? This is a long structure that would benefit with a little breakup of the rooflines imho. A little overhang under the open space and a little overhang over the ends. Use some interesting posts for the open area and you have the look of the structure being built at different periods of time.
[highlight] I really like this idea [/highlight], Nice one Daddymen :)the section of wall that is above the two enclosed ends / rooms could be left open so hot summer air would convect out making the porch area more interesting to look at and more confortable , Sort of timber framed , 6x6 post rough sawn with 3x8 R/S rafters say 3' OC overlayed with the T&G 2x6 decking .
It also lends to the car decking to be used as the area won't be insulated so we get the nice looking T&G showing without the hassles of different roof sheathing becoming a issue .
I think it would look cooler than the single long plane of roof as well. One of the little house plans a while back had that look , the winner of the contest IIRC, PEG
Looks like that traditional one was built--and re-built--in two sections, with the dogtrot roof being supported by huge old logs that do not quite line up with the logs in the upper roof cabin. Looks, in the restored cabin, like it might be supported by being spiked into the other side (although a big post would work to, I expect). With that, ceiling joist/rafter combination (or a king-pin truss) you'd probably be home free.
But if you don't have 8 x 8 poplar beams to play with....
southern living home plans has always had a dogtrot cabin--duplex type--in their catalog. I'll post it if I see it. Which I'm definitely NOT right now.
Hi there Fritz, I thought I'd post a pic of a similar cottage by Miller/Hull...
(http://www.millerhull.com/images/residential/Maury21.gif)
Your drawings didn't show rafter tails so maybe this is not an issue for you, but if you are planning to have exposed rafter tails then using standard rafter framing over the dogtrot would maintain the pattern of rafter tails along the length of the cabin. Of course you could also use the purlin method and attach fake rafter tails.
It seems to me that the purlin method saves lumber but that the rafter method involves a lot less head-scratching. It is easier to keep everything lined up at the right height just by keeping the tops of the dogtrot headers even with the cabin top plates. You can use PEG's top plate method to tie the three sections together, or if you want to raise the headers that extra 1.5 inch then use metal strapping instead.
On the issue of structural sheathing, I think you can skip it. Just use 1x or 2x purlins (aka skip sheathing) spaced a couple feet apart over the entire cabin and dogtrot. Given the length of the roof and the lack of dormers or other breaks, the metal roofing itself should provide adequate bracing (but check with the manufacturer first).
Good luck!
Just playing with the Daddymem idea. It removes the sliding barn doors. The side windows would be re spaced.
(http://www.digitalstoryteller.com/RaisedTrot.jpg)
It seems the rafter method Bart and PEG suggest would provide continuity more easily and give Fritz a place to hang his doors on the headers.
I enhanced (or degraded) a portion of the above photo to show the skip sheathing (now I know the name - thanks, Bart) a little better - While playing with it I noticed it looks like clear fiberglass or polycarbonate panels of the same configuration as the steel being used as skylights. This is common in steel buildings.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/skipsheathingandskylight.gif)
With the slope on this building it seems that standard lap high rib steel sheeting could be used rather than standing seam (which I think is usually crimped together or maybe in some cases clipped together) -maybe or maybe not cheaper- just another option.
I also see what looks to be two beams resting on post frame supports....then the rafters rest on the beam and the skip sheathing. This is similar to the constuction of the barn on the property build between the 20's and 40's.
You suppose these beams run the entire length? In my case 24+16+18 = 58 feet + whatever end overhang.
Also, I sketched what I think were the two ideas from above about the purlins. It's approximate but not exact to scale.
(http://www.digitalstoryteller.com/roofoptions.jpg)
It looks like the beams run the whole length. Check the pics below for the roof structure detail as well...
http://www.sunset.com/sunset/Premium/Home/1999/10-Oct/WHA1099/WHAPages1099/WHA171099.html
(http://img.timeinc.net/sunset/Premium/Home/1999/10-Oct/WHA1099/WHAfloorplans/Floorplan17.jpg)
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacificnw/2001/0520/aesthetic.html
(http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/art/pacificnw/2001/0520/aesthetic7.jpg)
http://www.millerhull.com/html/residential/maury_island.htm
(http://www.millerhull.com/images/residential/Maury24.gif)
http://www.architectureweek.com/2000/1101/news_1-2.html
(http://www.architectureweek.com/2000/1101/images/11176_image_6.150.jpg)
Fritz, I like your sketch.
Just for a "brain game", try doing away with the rafter that you are ledgering into.
Remember, in a true dog trot breezeway, your purlin-rafters will be landing onto full strength end walls. Each of the purlins could land directly onto a wall stud. Could be a butt-connection ... or could actually rest atop the stud ...or ...
I like the "opening header" acting as a spreader beam. Try raising it up to fit in between the lowest pair of purlin-rafters. I bet two would suffice in a 16' opening.
BTW: When I suggested 2x8's, I was "shooting from the lip". Now looking at tables, I see 2x8's would still work (@ 16" spacing) for some wood species and for the snowless Southeast: but for the rest of the country 2x10's, or better, may be required.
Wow...
I get away for a day and look what happens.
This idea is evolving nicely. :o
Think I'll go away again. :)
John
PS - As long as you do a standard concrete foundation wall under the sidewalls of the dog trot area this "long rafter" solution will work. A post and pier foundation could be done for this as well but should be done for the specific loads of the span and climate and is most simple with the header and ridge beam layout as the loads can then land on the piers. The breezeway could be done in lexan roofing for a sunny transition space and then metal on either side. (I might do corrugated to match the lexan profile.)
I was thinking 8 inch sonotube piers and was thinking of adding 1 at each "corner" where the deck of the dogtrot meets the corner of each cabin.
I hadn't decided whether to use the layout from the little house plans for the cabins (with the joist cantlevered over the beam) -- or go with the perimeter - pier layout of the "deep pier foundation" in the enchilada kit. I notice the beam size changes with the two versions.
Thoughts? I probably want to run this by an engineer once I think I'm ready.
I think you would be better off with the piers under the corners of the building when doing things like adding additional loading to the sidewalls.
Also, go up a notch on the floor joists as the span is now longer.
It would be a good idea to have your final layout reviewed locally.
Thanks all for your help before, can I bounce this next version off you. After looking at the roof line suggestions, I tinkered with this idea more. Now, the roof over the dog trot is raised 12" 18" above the other roof lines. (Still deciding)
But here is the concept. the roof would be longer to extend out to the same overhang as the main cabins (12" for now) The sketches actually show it even longer -- still playing with that.
it's based on daddymem and peg's suggestion -- a sort of timber frame roof just for that section -- the 6x6 posts rest on their own piers in the corners.
Some sketches -- approximate.
A view with the sliding barn doors open
(http://www.digitalstoryteller.com/plandoorsopen.jpg)
A view closed up when the cabin is un occupied
(http://www.digitalstoryteller.com/plandoorsclosed.jpg)
A view from the north end -- looking toward the raised roof
(http://www.digitalstoryteller.com/northendview.jpg)
A view from "inside" the dog trot showing the timber frame concept
(http://www.digitalstoryteller.com/InteriorDogTrot.jpg)
Finally, some 3-d from a cheap 3d home plan software
(http://www.digitalstoryteller.com/dogtrotversion2.jpg)
(http://www.digitalstoryteller.com/dogtrotversion3.jpg)
As a side note, I had no idea the original design was a "famous" cabin. As I did some research, it is called the Zachary house, and was in several magazines and trade publications.
You can see more info at the architect's site:
http://www.studioatkinson.com/1-zachary-3.htm
I really like being able to use John's plan and Atkinson's concept to make this adaptation. it will look great in rural Iowa -- and closed up -- will just look like a barn.
Sweet :) What would be cool , and you may have it in mind . Would be windows in the barn doors that when they are opened would line up with window in what ever rooms would be behind the "opened " barn door . A bit more sementry(sp) to excited to go spell check that word . It would be a little work but sweet when the plan, worked out . So add a window to the floor plan on either side of the barn doors, and one in each barn door . PEG
thanks for the encouragement.
I go back and forth on the additional windows. it adds symetery....but I like the look without, too. I haven't tackeled the back side windows yet -- the same or maybe different. In the smaller, right hand cabin, there is a future bath and shower in the windowless end. Anyway, easier to change my mind on paper than later.
I also am unsure about the each gable end rafter on the raised roof...I'm wondering if it needs to be more truss like (a king post maybe? I think that's the term) or if there is is enough structure with the other rafters to keep the roof intact and rigid in the wind.
QuoteYou can see more info at the architect's site:
Great idea and I do remember seeing this in a book some time back. If I remember correctly, the architect designed this for parents, one of which was a member of the clergy, therefore the + design.
judy
[edit]add reference quote[/edit]
You can use lookouts to brace the last 3 roof joists together to support the outside one. Some I have seen were 2x4s let into the top of the second joist flat ways then nailed to the inside one of the three and the outside one so they were flush with the underside of the sheathing or roofing.
MAIDEN PHOTO POST:
No, no, fellows ... not a photo of a maiden. It's my first try at posting a photo: The Dog Trot House in Alabama state park. Updated with metal roof. Now used for housing public toilets (on right) and park office (on left).
.
(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1935/dogtrotcabings1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
.
Yahoo!!! It works ... just follow John's easy directions.
Cool JRR - you are officially no longer a virgin --- photo poster. :-/
QuoteMAIDEN PHOTO POST:
No, no, fellows ... not a photo of a maiden.
Dang and I thought Amanda got the vinyl skirt out again ;)
with my luck it would be glenn :P
QuoteGlenn, your sketch is on the money.
But before you give me any credit for being a thinker, perhaps you should know that during a vacation ride through Alabama ... we visited a state park ... known for its long old wooden covered bridge ... and oh yes, there was also an authentic "dog trot house". Could be that that particular breezeway roof was supported in this fashion.
"Some of my best original ideas ... are ones that I've stolen from others".
JRR
The cabin at the Clarkson bridge has been inspiring to many folks.
We, Debbie and I, plan to build a version of a dog trot using an 18' X 18' room on each side of a 8' main hall. It will look like an enclosed dog trot. One side is the master bedroom and the other is the living area. The middle is a stairway with 1/2 bath or closet area under the stairs. I hope to use the 20x30 1.5 plan or a FirstDay kit to do this. It will be modified to be 18' x 44'. We plan an addition on the back of something like 22'X28' for the kitchen, bath areas.
These houses are all over our countrysides. I have several pictures and will attempt to post some when I'm not at work.
In the mean time, at Google search of the Clarkson coveredbridge will turn up nice photos of the dog trot cabin there.
http://community.webshots.com/album/55920059gpyumM
QuoteHeh, wrote that one while you were writing yours..I see we are two ships in different directons :D
Anyways..here is one with two pieces:
http://www.wheelerplantation.org/early_dogtrot_cabin.htm
Here is a compound project using dog trot influences:
http://themeridiancompany.com/cms/view.php?offset=1&sort=The%20Trot
I'm sitting about 8 miles from the Wheeler Plantation right now. It's a shame, but the mansion and the cabins (your first link) are falling into dis-repair once again. We as a nation seem to have tax money for everything and everyone except our history and culture.
QuoteQuoteMAIDEN PHOTO POST:
No, no, fellows ... not a photo of a maiden.
Dang and I thought Amanda got the vinyl skirt out again ;)
with my luck it would be glenn :P
You should be so lucky. :) I don't think there is a male nurse big enough to get me into another dress. :-/
"Clarkson Covered Bridge" ... Thanks, Williet, I couldn't remember the name. We just made a quick stop driving thru. I can see from the linked photos, that I need to return and finish the visit.
Have you been to "Natural Bridge"?
Which "Natural Bridge"? There are a couple that come to mind ....
The covered bridge is a great place for a picnic ... especially when the pond is full and the water's really runnin :)
A great example of what can be done by a private/tax-paying conservatist:
.
http://lampton.home.mindspring.com/naturalbridge.htm
.
Worth the visit, just to chat with the owner. Heck of a nice person. I remember the Clarkson Covered and the Natural Bridge being in somewhat the same area ... but maybe they are not so close.
I posted this in the 1000sqft thread, but thought I would show it to you folks interested in dogtrots. A lot of dogtrots got closed in as the years went by and the family prospered, creating a big living room or a wide center hall. Many of them had the roofs raised to create a full second story.
Here's a little dog trot design I did ages ago. They were done on Paint. It shows a possible two story center section to add more interest to the facade.
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/DETDOGTROT-1.jpg)
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/DDOGTROT2FAC.jpg)
QuoteA great example of what can be done by a private/tax-paying conservatist:
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http://lampton.home.mindspring.com/naturalbridge.htm
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Worth the visit, just to chat with the owner. Heck of a nice person. I remember the Clarkson Covered and the Natural Bridge being in somewhat the same area ... but maybe they are not so close.
Thanks,
We'll go see this one too ..... :)
QuoteI posted this in the 1000sqft thread, but thought I would show it to you folks interested in dogtrots. A lot of dogtrots got closed in as the years went by and the family prospered, creating a big living room or a wide center hall. Many of them had the roofs raised to create a full second story.
Here's a little dog trot design I did ages ago. They were done on Paint. It shows a possible two story center section to add more interest to the facade.
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/DETDOGTROT-1.jpg)
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/DDOGTROT2FAC.jpg)
Nice house, thanks for sharing it.
Nice plan, Mark.
I've been toying with a trot-design "lodge" ... full second floor, including smaller upper breezeway, pushing 2000 ft. Three bedrooms, each with bath. The breezeway joists and rafters would all run the "wrong way". Balloon framework except in the breezeway section. Porches on both sides.
The open unheated stairwell in the breezeway would not be problem here in the southeast. Separate living compartments with separate heating/cooling units (insert "wall units" and/or PEX heating) should render fairly good energy conservation. With proper attention to design and orientation, air conditioning need should be minimized.
This is my dream retirement house. My wife and I stay on the lower level ... guests can do the climbing.
Yes I really like dogtrot plans in all their forms. You could easily close up the ends of the dogtrot in cold weather with a system of storm windows that slid into channels or were held in place by battens. Or you might use folding shutters or doors that accordianed to either side. A woodstove in the middle area would keep things toasty warm.
Somewhere in my files I have a picture of the lodge u describe with two story dogtrot. If I can find it, I will post it. ;)