war in Iran immanent

[williet]

Well His father on earth was the carpenter...Supposedly...Never read anything saying Jesus made a living building houses like Joseph. I am sure growing up he learned a few things helping out around the house...

But if the scripture is true...Jesus walked all over the middle east..Started when he was very young....No way you have time to walk all over the known world at that time and hold down a regular job as a carpenter...And do the God thing the miracles healings etc...

Gospel of Mary...most of the first part talks about Jesus the carpenter. Just because it's not in the canon of Constantine don't mean it don't count.

We'll go to Iran because it has ALWAYS been the plan. All the government and media hoopla about their nuclear abilities has set the stage. So what if Iran has nuclear weapons ( they DON'T) .... Isreal has plenty. Iran wishes the end of Isreal .... Isreal also wishes the end of Iran. It's nothing new that an extremist Muslim hates extremist Jews....OR.... that extremist Jews hate extremist Muslims. That news story broke a few thousand years ago....What bothers me is that a few "extremist" Americans are dragging us into this never ending  war. Ishmael vs. Isaac .....

The usurper of the 2000 election has no plan to just fade away and the lack of anything from the Democrats in Congress has given him proof that no one cares what he does with the countryas long as the RIGHT pockets keep being filled.

Then again ..... Maybe enough people will wake up and support the Constitution over the Commander in Chief. Maybe America will once again be the place where rule of law outweighs dollars and greed. Maybe those who wish the decline of OUR sovereign nation will once again be treated as traitors, no matter what their public office ....... It COULD happen!

[PEG688]

#1:I always kind of looked to the sign that says...My Lord is the SON of a carpenter

#2: Seriously though...when did Jesus have time to be a carpenter if he was travelling the world saving lives healing the sick...teaching the gospel...Organizing the disciples into the church....Going with John the baptist.

#3: And for a long time in his life...Fleeing from the Romans

#4: I know this is a larger than life story....But unless there were 50 hours a day it is not even mathematically possible

 

#1: In those day "most" men did follow in the footsteps of there father's in occupation / trade / job. Pretty common really.

#2: His ministry , his gathering  of the 12 disciples , daily teaching in the synagogues , travels and healings all took place i what is commpnly excepted as a 3 or at most 4 year period.  Yes on early trips he did Wow the high priest  and elders with his knowledge of the books of the law / scriptures , but mainly those 3 to 4 years where his  earthy minisrty.

#3: Humm that one I do not recall , he did vanish at times , when the crowd ( Jewish towns folk)  crunched in , when he needed his space   he could find plenty , desert time , just before that little stroll on the water the 12 didn't know  where he was , (they where pretty clueless really , but then they where thinking in a common realm, not that he REALLY WAS GOD, you know like we think, DAH!) , but I do not recall any Romans chasing him , in fact he rode into the city of Jerusalem durning the Jewish high feast on a donkey , the Romans where there yes , but the feast was aJewish thing , they(the Romans ) wished it was not happening.

Maybe your confusin Jesus with his parents running from the Romans in Jesus per birth times?? :-/Maybe your making it up , or think you know something . In fact a easy analogy would be to go back in this thread and read what I wrote about that article Sassy posted about the "LSO"  a few sort of right words , 1/2 truths , etc etc make a fine storey but...................

#4: Again God's / Jesus's time table is not like ours , you can read about that in the bible as well , you may need tune up on that area  , check into 2 Peter , see if you can come up with that answer. Hey it's even YOUR book   Peter.

 Humm  random chance  :-/  maybe eh          

[PEG688]

Going with John the baptist.

I think ya better check into that one as well Peter. JB did baptise Christ, but they never did any or much traveling together. Old JB did get his head lopped off , in part due to women, by the Romans. Again you may need to do a lil refresher reading , your call Peter.

 You are one heck of a fisherman , I'll give ya that , cause ya got another one on , TROLLING ,  :'(  gosh I gotta be more picky about the bait I take    

[benevolance]

Jesus was  not God... I hate it when people say that...He  by definition is the Lord Christ...But he is the SON OF GOD.... Jesus is not and cannot be GOD

Peg you might want to check up on that eh?

In your replies to the inaccuracies of time line you mentioned that he was god, making reference to that negating the normal equation of space and time... the time it takes to walk all over the known world etc...

But he was not GOD

It only mentions that he is the son of God like a billion times in the Bible

[PEG688]

Peter , Peter, Peter , yes he referred to himself as the son of God , the son of the holy one , etc . And  yes the word "trinity" is not used in the bible , but if as John states "In the beginning was the word ..... He was with God in the beginning."  John was speaking of Jesus , Jesus himself said , " I am" and to a Jew that meant he was calling himself God , period , that is what got him put on the cross , that is why the high priest had it done. In the old testament Moses asked  " "What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?"   God said to Moses,  'I am who I am."

Practicing Jews and Jews of that time do not use those words , "I am" , they don't even write it , they leave a space.

 Here's little bit more on Christ declaring his own Deity:

http://www.clemson.edu/spurgeon/books/apology/Chapter9.html

 Another :

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/deityofx.html

Christ's Self-Perception, Part 2

A number of comments that Jesus made about His relationship with the Father would be unusual if Jesus did not consider himself [highlight]equal in essence with God.[/highlight] In John 10:30 He says that to see Him is to see the Father. Later in John 14:7-9 He adds that to know Him is to know the Father. Jesus also claimed to have existed prior to His incarnation on earth. In John 8:58 He says, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." Some believe that the words used here by Jesus constitute His strongest claim to deity. According to the Expositors Bible Commentary this passage might more literally be translated, "Before Abraham came into being, I continuously existed." [highlight]The Jews recognized the phrase "I am" as one referring to God[/highlight] because God used it (1) to describe himself when He commissioned Moses to demand the release of His people from Pharaoh (Exodus 3:14), and (2) to identifyhimself in the theistic proclamations in the second half of Isaiah. Jesus also declares that His work is coterminous with the Father. He proclaims that "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him" (John 14:23). The Jews hearing Jesus understood the nature of these claims. After His comment about pre-existing Abraham, they immediately picked up stones to kill Him for blasphemy because they understood that He had declared himself God.


Another:  http://newsbreaker.wordpress.com/2007/08/24/is-jesus-christ-god/

The Testimony Of Jesus Christ - Jesus referred to Himself as the "I AM" which was the name that God Himself used when He spoke to Moses out of the burning bush (John 8:56-59, Exodus 3:13-14). The Jews sought to stone Jesus because they thought that He was guilty of blasphemy (John 8:59, Leviticus 24:16). Jesus claimed to be the First and the Last (Revelation 1:11,17-18,2: which is a name that God claims for Himself (Isaiah 44:6). Jesus also claimed to be the Alpha and Omega (Revelation 1:8,11) and the Almighty (Revelation 1:.


Another : http://www.craom.net/DeityofChrist.htm

The subject of the deity of Jesus Christ is not just an academic issue. If Jesus Christ is not the Son of God, equal with the Father, then Christianity's special significance crumbles. The deity of Jesus Christ is vital to all that He did. If He is not the unique Son of God, equal with the Father, then His work at Calvary loses its redemptive significance. "To deny the deity of Jesus demotes the Son of God to the level of ordinary men. He was truly a great Teacher, He performed great miracles, He lived a great life; but He was more than a teacher or miracle-worker; He was God in flesh."


But eh Peter it's all good I haven't been in my bible this much in months   call it a dry time , back sliding , what ever you please they all fit. So thanks for gettin me off my butt :)and in my bible eh!

Anyway believe what you want my job here is finished.

Have a great rest of labor day holiday eh  buddy  

[glenn kangiser]

Williet, I think you have it covered.  Eyes wide open -- good show.

PEG and Peter -- that was pretty invigorating.  My wife will not allow me to express my views here just because I normally take whatever is the opposite side just to keep her in shape.  

[Sassy]

It's his passive-aggressive personality  

[benevolance]

Peg

I think you forgot something.... Jews do not believe in Christ

[benevolance]

BTW

Peg you know that the bible is not factual or truthful... It's conception is allegorical...I pick it up and look at it from time to time to examine it and it is easily one of the greatest deceptions of all time.

God can be real and there might well be a heaven...But the bible is not accurate. So before you get too worked up about what is and is not in that book...Remember that it is a complete work of fiction

[glenn kangiser]

...and all of the sudden, Peter evolved into something else. :-?

[PEG688]

Peg

I think you forgot something.... Jews do not believe in Christ

 Oh but they do Peter , they are just still waiting for him to come.

Christ is a greek word meaning" the anointed one" , the same word in  Hebrew  is  Messiah =the anointed one.  [highlight]They just do not believe Jesus is the Messiah, The Christ , The anointed one , Immanuel ( God with us ).[/highlight] The Jews are still waiting for a warrior king much as they where in Roman times , looking for that warrior king to rid them from thier opression/ oppresors.

And way back in post # 22 I gave you the option of[highlight] "IF" [/highlight] you hold scripture as true , you didn't use that option , so I carried on .

See ya Peter , just NOT on the other side    

[williet]

Peg

I think you forgot something.... Jews do not believe in Christ

Ahhhhh, BUT..they DO believe in the son on Joseph, Emmanuel. That was the given name of the person refered to as Jesus. They believe he was a prophet ( misguided according to them, but a real prophet).

JESUS is an Anglicization of the Greek [ch906][ch951][ch963][ch959][ch965][ch962] (I[ch275]sous), itself a Hellenization of the Hebrew [ch1497][ch1492][ch1493][ch1513][ch1506] (Yehoshua) or Hebrew-Aramaic [ch1497][ch1513][ch1493][ch1506] (Yeshua), meaning "YHWH is salvation"; and where "Christ" is a title derived from the Greek christós, meaning the "Anointed One," which corresponds to the Hebrew-derived "Messiah."

Thus, the members of the Jewish religion do not believe in Jesus Christ. Actually, Jesus THE Christ .... both TITLES and NOT names. Salvation Anointed One....Salvation (thru the) Anointed One.....THE CHRIST...THE MESSIAH.

BUT.....MOST Jews do believe in the son of Joseph, the carpenter,Emmanuel.

AND, Had King Jimmy done a better job, we today would be using the term....Emmanuel THE Jesus-Christ .... Emmanuel, Salvation thru the Messiah. HIS name and title....HIS given name and HIS purpose.

JESUS CHRIST .... This is the GOSPEL...so many people talk about. Gospel, means Glad tidings or Good News .....that being the Messiah had indeed arrived. The Messiah was that sacrafice promised by God to allow ALL people, Jew or Gentile a shot at salvation.

IF the Messiah has indeed appeard and the promise has been fulfilled, the Jewish religion is null and void and that religion that believes salvation can be attained by everyone, reguardless of birthright has replaced it. Christianity.....the religion that believes in a risen savior, the Messiah. Jesus Christ...Salvation thru the Messiah. Emmanuel at birth.... NOT just a name Jesus Christ, BUT...."THE" Jesus Christ "AFTER" He rose from the dead. Emmanuel, son of Joseph.... THE Jesus Christ, Son of God...the Messiah had to be BOTH. MAN and GOD.

The Gospel (the Good News was ), Emmanuel, son of the carpenter Joseph, is indeed the "ONLYBEGOTTEN" Son of God ( proof is His resurection from the dead).... the promised Messiah. Thru Him (Emmanuel, The Jesus Christ) ALL people everywhere have a chance for salvation.

[Sassy]

Peter, you say you don't believe in the Bible, humor me for a few minutes & read 1st Corinthians, the 1st chapt.  especially starting with verse 17 thru 31.  

Remember when Jesus was standing in front of Pilate, before his crucifixion?  "'You are a king, then', said Pilate.  Jesus answered 'You are right in saying I am a king.  In fact, for this reason I was born, & for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth.  Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.'  'What is truth?' Pilate asked."

"Jesus said '[highlight]I am[/highlight].  And you will see the Son of Man, sitting at the right hand of the Power, & coming with the clouds of heaven.'  Then the high priest tore his clothes & said, "what further need do we have of witnesses?  You have heard the blasphemy!  What do you think?  And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death."  Mark 62-64

Jesus also said "I am the way, the truth & the life" Jn 14:6

"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."  1 Cor 2:14

So Peter... no one can argue another person into belief - "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--His eternal power & divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what was made, so that men are without excuse."  Romans 1:20  

Belief is an act of the will, a choice, God gave us free will & will not force us - once a person decides to believe in the truth of the Bible, the Spirit of God enlightens him - until then, it is "foolishness".  

[williet]

What's ANY of this got to do with Iraq and Iran and our ?

A religious war between the Muslims and the Jews will never be won. We, a supposed "christian" nation have no place being involved in any way with this mess. IF we, a "christian" nation have any understanding at all of the religion we profess, we believe as a nation that BOTH Muslims and Jews are misguided in their beliefs.

I don't personally think a "Nation" can be CHRISTIAN, but IF we continue to spout off about being such....we should at the very least attempt to practice the tenants of that religion we claim.

IF we, as a Nation, would do so, we would NOT trying to place one WRONG religion over another WRONG religion. IF Christianity is the ONLY true religion, then ALL others are false.

On a Civil level, IF we believe in the FREEDOM of religion and the RIGHT of individuals to practice their faith as they choose....we as a Nation would allow BOTH Muslim and Jew to practice as they see fit.

EITHER way, we have no business in a RELIGIOUS WAR in the Middle East.

[Sassy]

Right on, Willet!  I agree with you - as I said before, we can't force people to believe or to adopt a "democratic" gov't (ha) & especially since so many of the so-called "Christians" are on the band wagon for war...  where is Christ's example?  As far as I'm concerned, it brings shame to the name of Christ.  

(I'd already typed this before I read your last reply)

Emmanual also means "God with us"  

"In the beginning was the Word & the Word was with God, & the Word was God.  John 1:1

"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given and the government will be upon His shoulder.  And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."  Isaiah 9:6

[williet]

Peter, you say you don't believe in the Bible, humor me for a few minutes & read 1st Corinthians, the 1st chapt.  especially starting with verse 17 thru 31.  

Remember when Jesus was standing in front of Pilate, before his crucifixion?  "'You are a king, then', said Pilate.  Jesus answered 'You are right in saying I am a king.  In fact, for this reason I was born, & for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth.  Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.'  'What is truth?' Pilate asked."

"Jesus said '[highlight]I am[/highlight].  And you will see the Son of Man, sitting at the right hand of the Power, & coming with the clouds of heaven.'  Then the high priest tore his clothes & said, "what further need do we have of witnesses?  You have heard the blasphemy!  What do you think?  And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death."  Mark 62-64

Jesus also said "I am the way, the truth & the life" Jn 14:6

"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."  1 Cor 2:14

So Peter... no one can argue another person into belief - "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--His eternal power & divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what was made, so that men are without excuse."  Romans 1:20  

Belief is an act of the will, a choice, God gave us free will & will not force us - once a person decides to believe in the truth of the Bible, the Spirit of God enlightens him - until then, it is "foolishness".  

Good points all ... for me, the line drawn is the acceptance of the resurrection of Jesus. At THAT point, He becomes the Messiah and the avenue of my salvation.

There are many folks out there who would have everybody just get along and accept each and all into salvation, however, Christianity teaches us that without that act of believing the seemingly impossible act of a dead man coming back from death and living forever as a part of God .... there is no HOPE of life everlasting.

THIS belief, not a proven fact, but a belief based of pure FAITH is the line drawn in the sand.

[Sassy]

Amen!  

[PEG688]

What's ANY of this got to do with Iraq and Iran and our ?

Nuttin go look at post #17  Glenn started the drift , I mentioned we where badly drifting in post #22, but eh thread drift happens eh

It was a nice drift I thought, I feel like a gardener today   Or maybe a cracked pot/ water boy
Where is Apollos ??

[williet]

BTW

Peg you know that the bible is not factual or truthful... It's conception is allegorical...I pick it up and look at it from time to time to examine it and it is easily one of the greatest deceptions of all time.

God can be real and there might well be a heaven...But the bible is not accurate. So before you get too worked up about what is and is not in that book...Remember that it is a complete work of fiction

There in is the difference. It is NOT a work of TOTAL fiction. Even atheist scholars believe there is some TRUTH in the collection of books assembled as the modern Bible.

I'm sure there are some here who believe each and every "jot and tiddle" in the pages of the King James....and some here believe NOTHING at all in the books.  

An HONEST study of the "creating" of the book known as the BIBLE will show there were many many books not chosen to be part of the collection. Those doing the "pickin" had their own reasons for adding or subtracting the writings of a given author. Many believe God Himself picked the books while others believe corrupt men did the selecting. Either way...what we have is what we've got! As time goes on, more and more texts are being found that talk about this Jesus. It's up to each of us to decide whether or not we will believe the writings of those books.

It's ALL a matter of belief and opinion, ( just as the belief in God or the resurrection of His Son come down to BLIND FAITH). NO REAL PROOF FOR EITHER. It is by FAITH we believe. Those who need or fabricate evidence miss the boat anyway.....

BUT..... It is a matter of FACT that the BIBLE, the King James (while not the first or the best version) does contain many provable facts. The books are a collection of the writings of believers and their writing is skewed by that belief. Those who believe in the Risen Messiah, believe in the Gospel. ALL the Book really does is tell a story about a promise and the fulfillment of that promise. It then gives a recording of events that can be used as "evidence" for those who believe... or fairytales for those who don't.

Like the sacred scriptures of ANY religion, if you don't believe through faith.....it means nothing. If you do have faith, it means everything.

There is not today nor ( as long as the world exists) will there be TOTAL proof of the scripture......It is taken by and through FAITH.....

http://bible.cc/hebrews/11-1.htm

[williet]

What's ANY of this got to do with Iraq and Iran and our ?

Nuttin go look at post #17  Glenn started the drift , I mentioned we where badly drifting in post #22, but eh thread drift happens eh

It was a nice drift I thought, I feel like a gardener today   Or maybe a cracked pot/ water boy
Where is Apollos ??

Post #38...it has everything to do with why we, the United States, are at war in the Middle East. The conflict between Jew and Arab is a religious conflict. The United States is playing with the power structures in the Middle East in attempts to manipulate the various factions of the Muslim religion in favor of the Jewish religion. (More favorable Arab dealings with Isreal) THAT is all this mess is about. The Shiite, Sunni and Kurd factions of the Muslim religion all have different views in dealing with Isreal and we ( a supposed christian nation) are manipulating the factions to derive what's best for Isreal, because we (a supposed christian nation) don't understand the smple message of the Gospel.

They are ALL wrong! Shiite, Sunni, Kurd and Jew.....NONE of them are GOD's chosen people anymore....

ONLY those who believe in the Messiah....the RISEN SON OF GOD ...are God'speople NOW. POST CROSS....post resurrection.

These fanatic preachers who preach a Judeo-Christian hybred religion are liars and they are leading this country into a never ending conflict that has no meaning. Just endless death....

This is a religious war and the two sides are both WRONG religiously.

WE, the United States, have no place there. We were put there by a nut job who has no idea of what Christianity is. This lie that we, christians must do what's best for Isreal will destroy our nation, if we don't return to the BIBLE that so many powewr hungry ministers wave as they spew hate.

SCRIPTURALLY... this war is non-sense. It is a CIVIL war based on the differences in the teachings of the Muslim religion. OUR stake is to help the faction most amiable to Isreal win.  

We ( our CIVIL government ) is not now nor have we ever been in danger from Iraq or Iran.

There was money to be made by a corrupt administration and they used a misguided religious belief in this country to drag our nation into the mess..... The ONLY way out is to leave.

There is and will always be a war between those who follow the religions started by the sons of Abraham. It will end when the Savior (the SON of GOD) returns and that will be on God's time frame....not G W Bush and Dick Cheneys!


So Peg,
At least in my mind, religion, the Gospel and a better understanding of the Muslim, Jewish and Christian religions are the topic at hand. The point of this thread. We can't seperate civil and religious beliefs when talking about this war in Iraq or the future war in Iran.

[benevolance]

Well


there are many disturbing things about the bible and Jesus...One being that man for thousands of years started to keep detailed records. Rainfall weather populations...who was wealthy, who was in power...Noted scholors, businessmen..etc.

In wars names of leaders squadrons and their numbers was kept....Fact is that if a person was born and they were the son of God...and they started a whole new religion that would sweep the countryside...Cause war unrest the death of Christ.... etc....

How come nothing of it was ever written by anyone.

Near as anyone can figure the first writing of christ were inked a couple hundred years after his supposed death....I say supposed death because there really is almost no evidence he ever actually existed.

Everything about Christ is a lie more or less...Like the depictions of a blue eyed man with a blondish beard....absolutely false.. if he lived christ was not white

But the white elite in europe made christ white in pictures.... I guess today considering that what 4% of the world are christians....that in an area where no white caucasians lived...that Christ was naturally of course one of us and not one of the lesser people of color (not my beliefs, just those of the church)

Another point...We should not accept the church or their version of truth (bible) They told us for 2000 years we needed to listen to them or we were going to burn in hell....But anyone that decided not to listen they burnt on earth...the middle ages or dark ages were a time when humanity was tortured by the church in christ's name...It was all the wealthy elite controlling the rest of us

How easily we forget

the bible is a lie.... If god loved us...Why then are only 4% of the world christians...What does god want to do.. burn the other 96%?..Some poor child born in africa or south america that never learns to read write and dies  before adulthood of disease...who did not get baptized or accept christ as their saviour...What is god going to do...Hunt them down in the afterlife to burn them, banish them to hell for an eternity of suffering...

this benevolant god that loves us and gave us his son because he wanted all of us to go to heaven

Get real people

[Sassy]

Peter, you keep going back to what "man has done in the name of religion" - religion has never been the answer.

[williet]

Well


there are many disturbing things about the bible and Jesus...One being that man for thousands of years started to keep detailed records. Rainfall weather populations...who was wealthy, who was in power...Noted scholors, businessmen..etc.

In wars names of leaders squadrons and their numbers was kept....Fact is that if a person was born and they were the son of God...and they started a whole new religion that would sweep the countryside...Cause war unrest the death of Christ.... etc....

How come nothing of it was ever written by anyone.

Near as anyone can figure the first writing of christ were inked a couple hundred years after his supposed death....I say supposed death because there really is almost no evidence he ever actually existed.

Everything about Christ is a lie more or less...Like the depictions of a blue eyed man with a blondish beard....absolutely false.. if he lived christ was not white

But the white elite in europe made christ white in pictures.... I guess today considering that what 4% of the world are christians....that in an area where no white caucasians lived...that Christ was naturally of course one of us and not one of the lesser people of color (not my beliefs, just those of the church)

Another point...We should not accept the church or their version of truth (bible) They told us for 2000 years we needed to listen to them or we were going to burn in hell....But anyone that decided not to listen they burnt on earth...the middle ages or dark ages were a time when humanity was tortured by the church in christ's name...It was all the wealthy elite controlling the rest of us

How easily we forget

the bible is a lie.... If god loved us...Why then are only 4% of the world christians...What does god want to do.. burn the other 96%?..Some poor child born in africa or south america that never learns to read write and dies  before adulthood of disease...who did not get baptized or accept christ as their saviour...What is god going to do...Hunt them down in the afterlife to burn them, banish them to hell for an eternity of suffering...

this benevolant god that loves us and gave us his son because he wanted all of us to go to heaven

Get real people

Pretty much what I said.Without the writings of people who believe in Jesus, there is no proof.

It's all about BLIND faith....you believe or you don't. I do believe and I think I can bring into question any so called facts about the man Emmanuel or His being Jesus, the Son of God. Even those who knew Him questioned His resurrection until they saw Him and onlya very few actually saw Him.....It is not a matter of evidence that will hold up in court....it's all about FAITH.

For me, no matter what is offered as proof He didn't exist, I will believe...SO....there is no point in defending each and every questionable point people come up with. Joseph had a son. Emmanuel was His name. He was offered as the all encompasing sacrafice to purchase salvation to all who believe on Him as the Christ.

The Gospel IS there in a book that's full of errors and misinterpretations. The flaws in the book compiled by many men over many years will give dispute to the story forever...I think that's part of the design, because it's by faith and faith only that we are saved.

Men will argue the "facts" of the Bible from now own ..... the Bibleis not what saves you.....belief in the simple Gospel is....The promise was fulfilled for all men everywhere....Emmanuel rose to become the Christ......That's as simple as it gets.....

[tanya]

God is LOVE (1 John 4:  So there you have it all this hoo haw about the bible is not necessary at all, Jeasus was famous not because he was born to a virgin mother, not be cause he was ressurected from the cross, or any number of other miraculas things, but because he was a MAN who walked the walk and talked the talk LOVE depsite all circumstances.  God favors those who do.  And I doubt very much whether it has to do wtih christianity or buddist, or any other religion.  Now if I can just get to that point I may be able to gain some favor with god myself.  It will take some work for sure.  

[tanya]

I know the way, but the devil is in the details.