I will be loading pictures soon ;D
[waiting]
:-\ Oooh, I think this was an episode of Seinfeld.
Hey I am learning as I go....And teaching an old dog new tricks is a work in progress ???
This was the start.
https://s745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/The%20Barn/
Quote from: Texas Tornado on August 09, 2010, 08:24:45 PM
This was the start.
https://s745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/The%20Barn/
I'm am having problems viewing your pictures . . . It wants me to "Login" to your account. ? Keeps asking for a password.
/
Quote from: bayview on August 09, 2010, 09:28:33 PM
Quote from: Texas Tornado on August 09, 2010, 08:24:45 PM
This was the start.
https://s745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/The%20Barn/
I'm am having problems viewing your pictures . . . It wants me to "Login" to your account. ? Keeps asking for a password.
/
Sorry....Had to change the settings....
No comments??? ???
Nice barn . . . Machine shed. Will you be building a home soon on the same property?
.
Yup...We are wanting to retire and move closer to the folks, just have to get hubby pinned down on what kind of house....I want to downsize and he is comfortable with a big house ???....I am looking for plans for a 1 story (too old for stairs), I have really enjoyed looking at all the postings here and truly love the creative touches.. The two issue's we have is finding help for the stuff we can't build/do and being in South Texas with the property in Oklahoma....
Irene
Nice Barn!!! What part of oklahoma? me and the wife are near tulsa
Quote from: Texas Tornado on August 10, 2010, 09:42:19 PM
No comments??? ???
Didn't have any problems with the link. Forget the house and partition a section of the barn off as living quarters. Looks like there is enough room in there for tractors and people. ;D
Quote from: astidham on August 11, 2010, 11:33:19 AM
Nice Barn!!! What part of oklahoma? me and the wife are near tulsa
Near Kingston...
Quote from: Redoverfarm on August 11, 2010, 04:30:48 PM
Quote from: Texas Tornado on August 10, 2010, 09:42:19 PM
No comments??? ???
Didn't have any problems with the link. Forget the house and partition a section of the barn off as living quarters. Looks like there is enough room in there for tractors and people. ;D
LOL That is what I tease Dad with! Barndominium...Dad gets a foreboding look on his face when I say it :o
I want to build and am still hunting down house plans that will be right for hubby and I both...Not like we don't have a big enough property to place a house and perhaps some cottages as well... Doing Bonsai will mean company staying over ;D 8) c*
A few items I am trying to get a handle on:
I am very open to ideas or suggestions for these!
I want solar to get off the grid but know that the area gets hail softball size.
(This will impact me a lot on growing my Bonsai trees as well so I have been looking for options to remove the destruction of hail related damage to my trees...Am thinking like a batters cage over the trees..)
The area gets snow and ice and the summers have humidity from hell (melt your eyebrows off your face).
The land has a lot of clay in it. Dad calls it "Gumbo" when it rains.
I want to build a home there and have dang near any tool that would ever be needed or wanted to do it.
I have some experiance (home repair/remodling but lack the knowledge for running wires and plumbing or putting on a roof..
I have recently bought "Complete book of Framing" by Scot Simpson and "How to Build a House by Larry Haun (Habitat for Humanity)
Irene
Regarding the hail question. some info posted today over here... http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=7672.msg120482#msg120482 (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=7672.msg120482#msg120482)
Further to that. I was reading some assorted sites. One pointed out that panels usually have a slant aimed southward. The site stated the in the northern hemishpere hail frequently comes from a northerly direction. I can not vouch for that.
But it does raise an interesting point. Testing standards are set up so that impacts are directed to the face of the panel at 90 degrees to the superstrate. So impact force to the glass front will most often be at some other angle which may reduce the impact damage.
Home owners insurance may or may not cover damages. That should be checked.
How about wind power? Maybe not as susceptible to big hail damage. ???
I'm sorry to hear you have clay. I dislike it a lot. Checking locally to see what foundations have resulted in stable buildings over the years would give you a good idea as to what works.
Quote from: MountainDon on August 18, 2010, 10:13:04 PM
Regarding the hail question. some info posted today over here... http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=7672.msg120482#msg120482 (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=7672.msg120482#msg120482)
Further to that. I was reading some assorted sites. One pointed out that panels usually have a slant aimed southward. The site stated the in the northern hemishpere hail frequently comes from a northerly direction. I can not vouch for that.
But it does raise an interesting point. Testing standards are set up so that impacts are directed to the face of the panel at 90 degrees to the superstrate. So impact force to the glass front will most often be at some other angle which may reduce the impact damage.
Home owners insurance may or may not cover damages. That should be checked.
How about wind power? Maybe not as susceptible to big hail damage. ???
I'm sorry to hear you have clay. I dislike it a lot. Checking locally to see what foundations have resulted in stable buildings over the years would give you a good idea as to what works.
Have not seen any wind turbines anywhere in the area there.
Hard to check living so far from there.... :(
Re: the wind power option. Not all locations are good for wind. It really takes more wind than one might think to be able to make an appreciable amount of power. Winds can vary a lot due to microclimates.
Re solar or alternative power source. The place to begin would be to do an honest estimation of what the electrical consumption would be.
Some things can be switched from electric to other energy sources, such as propane powered refrigeration, However, that is simply trading one purchase of energy for a different purchase of energy. To me, that does not always make sense. There are advantages to having one's own solar generation ability (independence, hopefully reliability, no monthly bill) and there are disadvantages (high up front cost, dependence on "the company", maybe reliability)...
Sometimes, and in some places, a grid tied system with some limited storage capacity to cover the power company outages, could be a viable compromise. That's especially true in some places where the power company does actually buy your surplus at fair pricing. (EG: At the present time my NM power company will pay me more for excess than what I have to pay them for their power. That could change of course.)
Quote from: MountainDon on August 18, 2010, 10:30:48 PM
Re: the wind power option. Not all locations are good for wind. It really takes more wind than one might think to be able to make an appreciable amount of power. Winds can vary a lot due to microclimates.
Re solar or alternative power source. The place to begin would be to do an honest estimation of what the electrical consumption would be.
Some things can be switched from electric to other energy sources, such as propane powered refrigeration, However, that is simply trading one purchase of energy for a different purchase of energy. To me, that does not always make sense. There are advantages to having one's own solar generation ability (independence, hopefully reliability, no monthly bill) and there are disadvantages (high up front cost, dependence on "the company", maybe reliability)...
Sometimes, and in some places, a grid tied system with some limited storage capacity to cover the power company outages, could be a viable compromise. That's especially true in some places where the power company does actually buy your surplus at fair pricing. (EG: At the present time my NM power company will pay me more for excess than what I have to pay them for their power. That could change of course.)
My present home is all Electric but my Greenhouse is set up for Propane...
Can you guess that your use at the new home would be the same, or less? That's a starting point for calculating your likely required system size and how much it will cost. There is a calculator in the general section; also many online ones, some god, bad, indifferent.
Quote from: MountainDon on August 18, 2010, 10:59:12 PM
Can you guess that your use at the new home would be the same, or less? That's a starting point for calculating your likely required system size and how much it will cost. There is a calculator in the general section; also many online ones, some god, bad, indifferent.
I doubt the usage will change but the issue with up there is many times the power is out and most everyone has generators..
I have so many questions and am so Thankful to have found this forum and to have the members here be so willing to advise and guide....
Irene
Q's
Considering the soil(clay/gumbo) which would be the best to use to build on for a foundation...
I'm with Don on his earlier suggestion - Find out what buildings that have lasted built?
With clay and gumbo you want to go with what has worked locally since tricky soil is a very site specific issue.
Have an experienced foundation contractor take a look - maybe more than one. You will likely sub that project out anyway.
Next trip up and I will be door knocking around the area to find out! Think there is only 2 houses that were site built on the long road...
Here is a plan I am thinking about.
(https://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/The%20Barn/20X30.jpg)
Well not much has been done, but I have been watching Craigslist a lot and found a couple of items ;D
The door was $40. It was worth the drive because it had the frame!!! (Yup I have learned a few things from all of you people here ;D)
(https://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/P1100754.jpg)
Sink was $20. Nice and small for what I want.
(https://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/P1100755.jpg)
Windows we had originaly for the Green House but will work for the House..
(https://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/P1100756.jpg)
A round one I found..
(https://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/P1100757.jpg)
I love the place that TexstarJim has built so may end up going that route.....
w00t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Talked to the Fire Marshall and the County Commish..........No Permits required for anything I want to build!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So I think real soon I will take a run up and start building a storage/cabin!
Now if only I can get hubby to quit thinking 1,400 plus feet is small d*
And a composting toilet is ok as well!!!
TT
OK what I am wanting to build is a sorta storage/cabin....
I am thinking 14X32 but also leaving a side with double windows that can be converted to a doorway when I build a second building (same size) attached to the first...I like the Gambrel roofs but am not wanting it tall enough for a second story...It can have a modified slant roof for the second building..
At issue is I hate Math and trying to wrap my head around numbers just gives me a headache d* so anyone willing to help me design the roof angles it will be appreciated! [cool] Did I mention I hate ladders? :o Current meds leaves me with vertigo :-[
I have looked for plans on gambrel roofs but they are all to big (none for 14 wide and they are 2 stories high!)
TT
I'm puzzled or missing something I guess. It seems to me that one of the reasons for a gambrel roof is to have an upper floor with headroom greater than what is provided by a gable or hip style roof. ??? Either that or a tall ceiling. The side walls could be made shorter to make the overall structure less tall, but then the windows you want in the sidewall would be a problem.
What am I not seeing?
Gambrel article (http://www.coastalcontractor.net/pdf/2007/0707/0707desi.pdf)
Thank You for the article MountainDon!
The visual appeal of the gambrel is what I am wanting just not the height.
I am wanting to build with the walls at max height 8 feet (2x6x8).. I want a open ceiling no rafters seen (like a cathedral). A second floor to me is useless and would never be used...Messed up knees and spine prevent climbing stairs.
TT
Like this one!
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10342.0
Well I changed my mind on the size and going with a 20X20, hubby dug the holes and we just got the post placed in the holes (They are not firmed into place yet). As soon as I can remember my password for the picassa I will upload them (Unless I can get Glenn to post them for me ;D)
TT
Post are in the ground 3 foot!
(https://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/P1130511.jpg)
Free Door that I got!
(https://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/P1130439.jpg)
First post going in: (https://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/P1130469.jpg)
Finaly bit the bullet and decided to just buy a cabin to place there!
This is a 12X40. I do plan on adding on to it. I have a few concerns and not to sure how to deal with them so I welcome some suggestions.
#1 Interior height (Hubby is 6') Pic of Mom to show height she is 5'6"......
#2 Thickness of the wall
#3 How would I join an additional 10' to the right wall ceiling.
Here are the pictures...
https://s745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/Album%202/
TT
The Front
(https://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/Album%202/P1130703.jpg)
The door side
(https://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/Album%202/P1130704.jpg)
The Long side
(https://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/Album%202/P1130711.jpg)
(https://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/Album%202/P1130759.jpg)
Adequately insulating a building like that is one of my primary concerns. Insulating the roof if the building is finished with a loft space can be especially difficult.
Loft will not be used and considering the height inside may require removing the loft sections...
Inside shots:
(https://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/Album%202/P1130714.jpg)
Mom at the door:
(https://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/Album%202/P1130745.jpg)
At the wall:
(https://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/Album%202/P1130746.jpg)
Under loft:
(https://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/Album%202/P1130747.jpg)
(https://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/weetreebonsai/Album%202/P1130753.jpg)
Another area I am concerned about is the lack of tornado straps and how to add them in :-\
FYI Mom is very happy that we have gotten to this stage...We will be under 10 miles from them... ;D
Make certain that loft sctions are not required to tie the walls together.
That still leaves the question of how to insulate the walls and roof. I know parts of TX does not have too much in the way of cold temperatures to deal with but summers are hot. What R-value of insulation in roof and walls would you want?
MountainDon this is in Oklahoma and yes it gets cold there so what would you suggest?
We briefly considered purchasing a similar building when we were planning a cabin back in 2006. I wanted R19 or so for walls and at least R30 for ceiling/roof. (that has resulted in a cozy cabin with an R45 ceiling) The 2x4 framing of most of those building types that I've seen, makes it difficult without getting into spray foams; even then the roof comes up deficient, IMO. 3 1/2 inches with R6 per inch is R21. That is now the recommended minimum in some areas for walls. OK is R20 for walls and R38 for ceiling. Insulating in the roof framing would make that like a cathedral ceiling.
http://reca-codes.org/codes2012/Oklahoma.pdf
I don't see any way to fit a higher R value into the roof framing without considerable work. Maybe it's just me but to me, it seems like too much work. But then I was certain I could build a 16x30 shell for less, and with less effort in retro-fitting, than what the building vendors were selling, with the insulation requirements I had self imposed on the project.
In a scratch built structure one has the option of adding a layer or two of rigid foam sheets to the exterior before applying the final sheathing and/or siding. Ditto on the roof. With a prefabbed building that does not make any sense as the exteriors come paneled and shingled.
Those are the main problems I see with trying to make a cabin out of what was originally designed as a utility building. It's just my way of looking at the issue. My size may not fit all. I present it as food for thought before taking the leap. I do realize that a compromise must be achieved many times.
All the concerns about insulation become even more important if the building is to become a full time residence. My experience comes from living in locations where daily temperatures reach into the high 90's as well as locations where the daily temperatures were in the 20's and down into the minus 20's and even colder.
It is already bought.
Suggestions on how to improve it for what we need.
TT
Heading to work now but I would have to agree with Don, that the loft sections are used to hold the sides together. You may be able to raise them a ways but I would be sure the side gambrel roof joists are adequately attached to the walls possibly by adding brackets if necessary.
Will try to have another look tonight.
TT, if you are going to sheetrock, you could add an inch of rigid foam insulation under it by just using longer screws to sandwich it in. You may want to tape the seams for a vapor barrier on the inside if they are not already tight.
This would cut a couple inches from your living space but you would gain R5 for the inch and could use cheaper fiberglass insulation in the cavities. Don't overstuff the cavities with thicker insulation as it will cut down the R value. Having the rigid insulation over the studs will also gain you even more over having the wood against the back of the sheetrock. Wood has a much lower R value.
Quote from: glenn kangiser on July 30, 2012, 10:23:17 PM
TT, if you are going to sheetrock, you could add an inch of rigid foam insulation under it by just using longer screws to sandwich it in. You may want to tape the seams for a vapor barrier on the inside if they are not already tight.
This would cut a couple inches from your living space but you would gain R5 for the inch and could use cheaper fiberglass insulation in the cavities. Don't overstuff the cavities with thicker insulation as it will cut down the R value. Having the rigid insulation over the studs will also gain you even more over having the wood against the back of the sheetrock. Wood has a much lower R value.
Can you explain what that is?
Is this done on the inside before putting in the insulation?
Fiberglass insulation in the stud wall cavities. Rigid XPS foam 4x8 sheets installed over the studs and f-glass insulation; secured to the studs. The XPS foam is a water vapor barrier. Taping the seams seals those points to complete the tightness of the building. Then drywall is applied over that. That works for just about everywhere except for where it is hot and humid and the interior is air conditioned.
Some foam sheets have T&G edges that make the sealing between panel edges very good. There are special foam caulks/glues/sealants that can be used in the edge joint as well. Many regular caulks/sealers with dissolve foam.
You might want to reconsider that vapor barrier depending on climate. As your user name implies you are Texan, you may likely have a hot humid climate where vapor barrier on the interior side can lead to issues as condensation can build up in the wall cavities and be conducive for mold and or rot. You have to build for your environment.
This has been discussed a time or two on here before and you can probably follow some of the links in this thread to get more information.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10062.msg129030
Other than that, what is the intended purpose of this barn? A camping place for weekend use or full time dwelling?
Quote from: glenn kangiser on July 30, 2012, 09:02:57 AM
Heading to work now but I would have to agree with Don, that the loft sections are used to hold the sides together. You may be able to raise them a ways but I would be sure the side gambrel roof joists are adequately attached to the walls possibly by adding brackets if necessary.
Will try to have another look tonight.
I also concur that the loft sections are being used as collar ties for support of the structure and you probably should not remove them.
I did pretty much the same thing on my gambrel and raised the loft sections.
For adding brackets, or additional gussets, I just used 2x4 lumber and reinforced the connections of the side and roof joins. Here is a picture of that.
(http://loopy.org/pictures/galleries/Dixon%20Ranch/November%202009/_thumbs/640x480-DSCF5448.JPG)
As for raising it, it's not too tough but you will need some helpers to hold the long boards in the air while you work. I just removed the decking, used a sawsall reciprocating type saw to cut along one end where the roof line comes up. Placed it above using the left over cuttoff still attached. I thought the process of getting it raised was going to be a huge issue it turned out to be a 30 minute job with the help of two friends. Dont have good pictures of the process as we had our hands full at the time but here is a picture that might convey the point.
The part to notice is where the joist attaches to the gambrel side roof. The joist sits on top of where it used to be attached.
(http://loopy.org/pictures/galleries/Dixon%20Ranch/November%202009/_thumbs/640x480-DSCF5240.JPG)
You should pinpoint the location and then look up the recommendations for that climate type.
Reference material on climate zones here. (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=11967.0)
Thinking about this I believe there may be more to this than simply should there be a vapor barrier or not. ??? The rigid foam will have an effect I think. I do know that when applying rigid foam to the exterior, on top of walls that are insulated with fiberglass between the studs a "certain minimum" amount of foam is required to avoid problems in some climates. There may be a similar thing for interior foam. I don't know and have too little free time right now to delve into researching the matter. But before jumping in and nailing up foam some homework should be done. Building Science website may help.
In a heating dominant climate (more energy goes to heating rather than cooling) you are usually safe having the air/moisture barrier on the warm in winter side of the wall and having the cold in winter side more open to drying (but not drafts). If you are doing rigid foam on the inside of such a wall you might tape and/or caulk it airtight. If you were to do rigid exterior foam on such a wall you may decide not to tape and air seal.
The Building Science Corp website has more climate specific data. Then there is the Passive House system that seems to massively seal everything but that system is very fussy and not really an amateur builder project.
Quote from: MountainDon on July 31, 2012, 11:23:50 AM
Fiberglass insulation in the stud wall cavities. Rigid XPS foam 4x8 sheets installed over the studs and f-glass insulation; secured to the studs. The XPS foam is a water vapor barrier. Taping the seams seals those points to complete the tightness of the building. Then drywall is applied over that. That works for just about everywhere except for where it is hot and humid and the interior is air conditioned.
Some foam sheets have T&G edges that make the sealing between panel edges very good. There are special foam caulks/glues/sealants that can be used in the edge joint as well. Many regular caulks/sealers with dissolve foam.
Gets hot and humid there...So far this year the high has been 115+....
Quote from: muldoon on July 31, 2012, 11:43:54 AM
You might want to reconsider that vapor barrier depending on climate. As your user name implies you are Texan, you may likely have a hot humid climate where vapor barrier on the interior side can lead to issues as condensation can build up in the wall cavities and be conducive for mold and or rot. You have to build for your environment.
This has been discussed a time or two on here before and you can probably follow some of the links in this thread to get more information.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10062.msg129030
Other than that, what is the intended purpose of this barn? A camping place for weekend use or full time dwelling?
Camping place and maybe a place to live for a few months each year (Harvest time)..
Quote from: muldoon on July 31, 2012, 11:43:54 AM
You might want to reconsider that vapor barrier depending on climate. As your user name implies you are Texan, you may likely have a hot humid climate where vapor barrier on the interior side can lead to issues as condensation can build up in the wall cavities and be conducive for mold and or rot. You have to build for your environment.
This has been discussed a time or two on here before and you can probably follow some of the links in this thread to get more information.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10062.msg129030Other than that, what is the intended purpose of this barn? A camping place for weekend use or full time dwelling?
Thank You for the link!!!
Great education in that thread!
Quote from: MountainDon on July 31, 2012, 12:36:19 PM
You should pinpoint the location and then look up the recommendations for that climate type.
Reference material on climate zones here. (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=11967.0)
Zone 3
Ceiling R-value 30
Wood Frame Wall R-value 13
Mass Wall R-value i 5/8
Floor R-value 19
Basement Wall R-value c 5/13f
Slab R-value d, Depth 0
Crawlspace Wall R-value c 5/13
Fenestration U-Factor b 0.50j
Skylight U-Factor b 0.65
Glazed fenestration SHGC b, e 0.30
Quote from: muldoon on July 31, 2012, 12:05:30 PM
I also concur that the loft sections are being used as collar ties for support of the structure and you probably should not remove them.
I did pretty much the same thing on my gambrel and raised the loft sections.
For adding brackets, or additional gussets, I just used 2x4 lumber and reinforced the connections of the side and roof joins. Here is a picture of that.
(http://loopy.org/pictures/galleries/Dixon%20Ranch/November%202009/_thumbs/640x480-DSCF5448.JPG)
As for raising it, it's not too tough but you will need some helpers to hold the long boards in the air while you work. I just removed the decking, used a sawsall reciprocating type saw to cut along one end where the roof line comes up. Placed it above using the left over cuttoff still attached. I thought the process of getting it raised was going to be a huge issue it turned out to be a 30 minute job with the help of two friends. Dont have good pictures of the process as we had our hands full at the time but here is a picture that might convey the point.
The part to notice is where the joist attaches to the gambrel side roof. The joist sits on top of where it used to be attached.
(http://loopy.org/pictures/galleries/Dixon%20Ranch/November%202009/_thumbs/640x480-DSCF5240.JPG)
Can it be raised higher than that?
I would like to put in a ceiling fan and the only thing the loft would be used for is storage.
TT
Quote from: glenn kangiser on July 30, 2012, 10:23:17 PM
TT, if you are going to sheetrock, you could add an inch of rigid foam insulation under it by just using longer screws to sandwich it in. You may want to tape the seams for a vapor barrier on the inside if they are not already tight.
This would cut a couple inches from your living space but you would gain R5 for the inch and could use cheaper fiberglass insulation in the cavities. Don't overstuff the cavities with thicker insulation as it will cut down the R value. Having the rigid insulation over the studs will also gain you even more over having the wood against the back of the sheetrock. Wood has a much lower R value.
Ewww sheetrock!!!
Thinking is Pine or cedar boards.....I want the rustic look!
Maybe half wall of metal 8)
TT
There you go... sheetrock is outlawed here too.
Well been a while since I got some time to do some visiting here, soon as I reread on how to upload pics I will show all we have done.
TT
Muldoon we did raise and remove one area..
Well let's see if I got this right...
https://s745.photobucket.com/user/weetreebonsai/slideshow/Album%202 (https://s745.photobucket.com/user/weetreebonsai/slideshow/Album%202)
Album 3
https://s745.photobucket.com/user/weetreebonsai/slideshow/Album%203 (https://s745.photobucket.com/user/weetreebonsai/slideshow/Album%203)