Earthship Hybrid - seeking input as we plan this out.

[ListerD]

Thanks Mike. For the roof insulation our minimum goal is R38. Ceiling finished with T&G or a faux T&G from a solid sheeting.

I'm going to be looking at more truss ideas in the next few days. I've seen the rebar style I think you mean. I like those and I like the one that's an I beam design where the top and bottom is dimensional lumber and the center portion of the beam looks like conduit it rebar, this one seems to be common up here in commercial applications. There's also a metal web floor truss that I like the look of but not yet sure of it's load capacity.



Understand the points about the greenhouse being integrated as part of the house. It's a concern of mine too, but it seems to be an issue that can be worked on and dealt with. It looks like it's a common issue in a lot of passive gain situations. Solutions found so far: We can minimize the amount of angled glass, opting to go with a more standard patio door approach on some of the south wall (lowering the overall summer gain). Shade cloth usage like in commercial greenhouses. Trellis systems could be built to shade summer sun.

The winter sun angle ranges in December at 29 degrees and in March it's back up to 52 degrees. Summer solstice is up to 72 degrees.

I thought about light tubes too. This gives me one issue I'd like to avoid and that's anything penetrating the main roof. Currently we're thinking of standing seam metal roofing since it gives us the longest life and we're planning rain water collection so we obviously don't want shingles.

Love the idea of the big dance floor!

[mvk]

ListerD

I'm both thinking out loud and hoping to learn.

Night time cooling is a bigger issue then summertime overheating  for me and I would think for you also, especially if you don't mind using removable shades  Trellises can really be nice, I like scarlet runner beans and so do the Hummer's. You would have more options because of your climate.

John's sun space is one thing to do, with the insulated wall, but in my climate it reduces the greenhouse aspect to a season extender, even with angled glass.

I want a Victorian Glass House that insulates to about R-15+ when the sun doesn't shine on it's own. With heated soil. Hot Tub!

5 or 6 slider panels could collect enough heat to heat any house I would build maybe twice if I could store it and distribute it. but so would a couple of cords of wood. But how about if I'm 80?

If you use slider panels make sure that they let the light in, I have read about people getting the wrong ones even when they specified and didn't find out till after install. I sometimes wonder if this was one person and just gets going around the net?  This happened to you? No but my cousin's nephew's sister in law's brother's cousin's nephew's best friend's best friend knew a guy...

If you are a pro-active gardener you can do better in cold frames if you can heat the soil a little, hot manure is one way. Grab all the old windows you can they last longer then plastic.

I think anyone building a year round house you should look at a sunspace. I think for the DIY'er you can build one cheaper per square foot then regular space and use it most of the time. I'm thinking about a dinning room/sitting room with a space heater, that would be allowed to go cold over night.

Mike

[ListerD]

Not sure I'm following you on the sliders. I assume you mean the roll up style sun shades?

If we go that route the plan is to use the full length shading like show on his website.

Another idea was barn door tracked shade screens like you see in some of the newer passive home designs wood 1x1 slats in a frame suspended on the sliders. You should roll them in front of the window for shade.

Spent the last day or so looking at slab ideas and roofing.

We really wanted to do standing seam roofing but after talking to a contractor that would most likely do the job it's far too cost prohibitive. He suggested standard galvanized roofing for the initial roof and then later possibly going to standing seam.

As to the slab, a concrete contractor I spoke to yesterday refused to do the job unless we insulated between the slab and the soil. I explained this would kill the earth tie to which he responded with a couple expletives (something to the effect of where my hippie tree hugging  self could shove the foundation), I bet he doesn't get many jobs!!!

[glenn kangiser]

That's how you weed out the contractors you don't want to deal with.

The standing seam is not reusable in the case where the machine crimps the edges together -- garbage after that--- so much for remodels.  There are some others that use hidden clips that are also called standing seam-- I don't like any of it myself.

[mvk]

ListerD
Repacement glass for sliding glass doors, what most people used to use for sunrooms.
Mike

[ListerD]

Yeah Glenn he got crossed off the list right away! I've heard from our neighbors who not to use down there for the most part.

We'll probably just go with the standard old galvanized roof and put the money elsewhere. The roofer I talked to had some great ideas but they were either too expensive or made me uneasy thinking about rainwater collection and reuse and chemical leaching.

Mike - I gotcha, you mean to use the replacement sections for sliding doors as the whole south face glass. That is certainly an option and it's on the list.

[ListerD]

Concrete finishing - any suggestions? Something less/non-toxic?

http://www.retroplatesystem.com/ has what outright seems to be "natural".

[ListerD]

Finally back... Was out due to medical issues. More questions soon 

[glenn kangiser]

We were wondering what happened to you -- we'll be here.

[ListerD]

Heh, didn't think I'd been here long enough for anyone to miss me. 

[glenn kangiser]

All of our members are special as they are just a bit ahead of the rest of the crowd. 

[ListerD]

Heh, Point taken.

Thanks for the welcome back! 

Any thoughts on floor finishing? See July 21st posting.

[glenn kangiser]

The concrete finishing posted has to be expensive -- how about compacted earth floors with a vapor barrier under and linseed oil finish?  Also how about the thin concrete and jute fiber floor like I did around our pool or a couple areas in our cabin.? hmm

[glenn kangiser]

Here is a link to the floor by our pool.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.msg62468#msg62468

Another view as the bench was put on it.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.msg63097#msg63097

[ListerD]

Interesting! Will check it out.

We'd planned on an on grade cement slab to tie the thermal mass to the ground. How well does this hold structurally?

[glenn kangiser]

The earth floor is softer than the concrete floor but holds up well with care.  The cob and linseed oil is the most durable of the earth floors.  The light duty floor is concrete and is rated at about 50 lbs psf but has been tested at 250 or so with no problem - heck I can almost load it to that myself.

Unless the thermal mass is insulated from the ground it seems that the earth just soaks up all of the heat and takes it away.  I would think structural foam board under the mass would do it though.  Possibly gravel could provide  break also.

[glenn kangiser]

Here is a link to the  CBRI light duty concrete floor I did in our place.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.msg7536#msg7536

[ListerD]

The plans call for a moisture barrier and gravel only under the slab. We've turned the plans as we got them over to an engineer (structural) friend of mine and then they'll go to an architect friend of his for review. The principle here is the ground is/becomes the heat sink for the home in addition to the mass of the home itself. I have to admit to still being a little skeptical, but having researched this some the science and common sense principles seem solid. But hey, I've got the resources in a couple friends so I'll tap them (as well as you guys). We've still got about a year before we start anything so I've got time.

I've been emailing back and forth with someone who has built a home of virtually the same construction in northern Arkansas. His home built to these (or very similar) plans has an 8 degree average swing in temperature day to night and around a 12 degree seasonal swing (i.e. average indoor summer temp is ~79 and average indoor winter temp is ~67). He has found a need for A/C in August but his unit is only a 10k btu window shaker and that is in his words because he "likes to sleep cold". He said that a few times in the winter they fire up a small woodstove to take the chill out but most winter days it's just "throw on a sweatshirt". I've read a lot of reports similar to this from other HTM owners/builders.


I love the look of the floor you did in the earlier photos and it's got my wife kind of excited. I could see us at a minimum using the templates to get the individual stone look.


I talked to a client of ours who is a GC in commercial construction (mostly tilt-up wall construction) he likes the stained concrete floors and said a lot of companies that they're building for are asking for it, but said it is a little strong smelling for a few months afterwards (using conventional floor staining methods). He's never done the more natural concrete staining so had no ideas there. He's going to ask their floor guys and see if they have any info or experience with it.

[glenn kangiser]

I just make the flagstones freehand with a jointer tool.  You can get the rubber stamps to make it look more stonelike - -- like Bomanite.

[ListerD]

Heh, you're definitely more patient! I like the rubber stamp! 

[PureCountry]

Really liked the pics of the "cheap and easy" floor Glenn. And the pics in that thread of your garden forbs were awesome too. It's amazing what will grow when we let Nature take it's course.

The flooring discussion is of great interest to me, because I've been wondering just how we'll do that in our home. Walking on concrete all day is not my idea of comfort, and even the laminate floor we have in our current home makes the feet and ankles ache at the end of the day. Guess that's a sure sign I've spent too much time indoors on those days, and need to take the wife and kids out for a stimulating afternoon of fencing!!

ListerD, you may want to also ask some questions on the Malcolm Wells Yahoo Chat Group. They've been a wealth of knowledge for me. Lots of people who already live in earth-sheltered homes, some who have built their own. Just another group of good folks who enjoy helping others through sharing experience, much like the ones here.

[glenn kangiser]

Really liked the pics of the "cheap and easy" floor Glenn. And the pics in that thread of your garden forbs were awesome too. It's amazing what will grow when we let Nature take it's course.

The flooring discussion is of great interest to me, because I've been wondering just how we'll do that in our home. Walking on concrete all day is not my idea of comfort, and even the laminate floor we have in our current home makes the feet and ankles ache at the end of the day. Guess that's a sure sign I've spent too much time indoors on those days, and need to take the wife and kids out for a stimulating afternoon of fencing!!

The whole family involved building fence could really get a lot done especially with air nailers. hmm 

You didn't mean trying to stick each other with long knifey things did you? hmm

I think the most comfortable floor to walk on would be the cob floor, but the jute/fibermesh reinforced floor around the pool has a great amount of give to it- not at all like concrete...more like the cob/earth floor, but maybe more durable.  I sometimes refer to it as my concrete carpet.

[ListerD]

The overall comfort of the floor is something we'd worried about too. We kind of have it in the back of our mind to check out the big recycled rubber mats like they use on playgrounds now too, but then again how do you keep them clean?

PureCountry - I'll check out the link. Thanks!

[glenn kangiser]

Just spend a lot of your time sitting in a chair (a comfortable one).

[ListerD]

Hah! As if that's possible...! 


I'll be sure to tell my wife that Glenn said I can spend lots of time in my rocker.