Greetings; I have one year remaining on a 2yr well permit cost was 450$. The property is elevated at 10,000 ft.-- water is 250-350 feet on the dig, I'm told. My question is- if I dig the well within the year permit time-- but do not have a complete cabin build for say 5-6 years-- do I lose well water depth and compromise the well integrity?? Should I collar, cap and run a pump every 3 months?/ thoughts and knowledge appreciated.
8-)
Welcome to the forum.
I've no clue as to the answer.
(although I'll bet I have to reapply for a septic tank permit if I decide to put one in up the hill)
I would think if you went ahead with the well now it would save you some $$$ later. Fuel for the driller, copper wire to the pump, etc. seems to be on the rise. A properly cased well should stay good indefinitely I would think. Glenn was a driller at one time and he may have more insight but this is my opinion. And a property with a well is more valuable than one without if you never build on it.
Hi happylogan.
I am going to guess that at that elevation they are going to be drilling rock. Not much to deteriorate in rock.
They should be able to drill it - air develop it and you could leave it sit without any problem I can think of. Ask you driller for his opinion also. They should put a minimum 20' or to hard rock seal at the top.
Please keep us posted with the details of what you do.
What area are you in?
Thanks-- The land is in CO. in an area called Valley of the Sun- which is near a small town called Fairplay which west of Denver. The drilling company has put wells in this area before- they are familiar.. I can get out there this summer-- I would like to see it.. I understand they need to get several flatbed rigs up into the land for all there tybes, gears,etc. I don't want them butchering the land. So, how do I decided where the well goes??? :o
Last fall we bought some land in northern Minnesota. It had a 143' well dug in 1979 on the land. The well had never been used. It did have (still does) a 6" steel casing though. We popped the top this spring. Water is down 16' from the surface and the well is still open all of the way down.
So they can stay viable for quite a while.
As for the location, I would think about where you would lide to put your buildings eventually and go from there. Our buildings are going to be somewhat limited as the well is already there, and we don't want too much distance from the house (cabin) to the well. Luckilly, it works where we would like to site the buildings.
That's the question where to site the cabin. Think I can do this myself? The acre is heavy with tall trees..?? I want to buils a 24X30 with loft or other basic design..
You may have to look things over and decide that yourself. Remember that the well has to be 100 to 150 feet away from the septic system leach lines or drilled cesspool (not used in many areas) - the well uphill from it would probably be good if on a sloped area. Keep that in mind when laying out the cabin location. The driller may be able to assist with a good location if you have made up your mind on cabin location. Septic lines and tank should run downhill from the cabin or things will get deep fast.
Getting equipment into the site is one of the things you have to live with - this stuff is heavy and there are no methods of movement that allow the equipment to get onto and out of the site leaving the land untouched. You could put a road in for them with adequate turnaround areas or deal with it afterward if they mess up something. Much of this type damage is pretty well self healing after you knock down the bumps and humps. In a year or so leaves - pine needles - grass etc will reclaim it.
That's good to know..the lot- 1 acre- has frontage 190ft or so - and gentty slopes down the backside. Maybe I'll take a day and look it over- haven't seen the lot in 5 years- wow! yikes.. The driller did say he has some big rigs---this ain't gonna be cheap... :'(
Just a question for you, are there other lots near by? Just wondering if you can cut down on the mobilizing cost by spliting it between several wells. Would have to find out who could use a well nearby but would save $.
5 years ago last time Iwas up there some homes, more now I understand. Are you saying feed off someones well? I'm not clear on this? can you explain more?
hate to reply to my own post but... yikes! :o spoke with a local well driller - 28$/ft plus $2100 for 3/4 glow (sp) pump $1000 for cement/collar/cap plus pump and tank or cabin $750 all added assumin we hit water at 300ft== 12k ;D ;D ;D
are they pickin my pocket
oh, and a driveway needs to go in first for access 4k :-/
thoughts please
Quote5 years ago last time Iwas up there some homes, more now I understand. Are you saying feed off someones well? I'm not clear on this? can you explain more?
What I mean is there someone else who needs a well drilled. A certain part of the cost is just getting the crew and equipment to site. Its referred to as the mobilization cost. If another person needs a well you could split the cost. Contracter may not have broken out this cost but there is a real cost to getting there.
That price may or may not be unreasonable. The only way to find out would be to shop it locally there. Talk to neighbors who have had one put in and see who they used - if they are happy - if there are others available. Also ask the health department if thye have a list of local drillers available. Many times they cannot recommend one but can tell you of all available.
I don't know if you are in rock all the way or cased all the way - it seems high if you are not cased all the way down. I am not familiar with your local conditions so that is about all the help I can give you. Please keep us informed on what you find out.
Okay, so well share is when someone else needs a well and you and the other person split "mobilization costs?" What about tapping into someones line or other type share. I thought someone told me youcouls, for a one time price buy into someones well, then another person could buy and tap off you , etc. Am I off base here??
QuoteOkay, so well share is when someone else needs a well and you and the other person split "mobilization costs?" What about tapping into someones line or other type share. I thought someone told me youcouls, for a one time price buy into someones well, then another person could buy and tap off you , etc. Am I off base here??
I would think sharing would become a legal problem wouldn't it. Not now but when you sell or they sell would want to have it on paper work that you have "rights" to water.
Also keep in mind water availability. We have a well at our main house in NH and a couple of years ago we went through a dry spell and the water level was getting low. A good rain storm fixed it but I can't imagine if there had been two houses sucking off the same well.
I think a well will rarely go bad from sitting. I would go ahead and get it done, you will need it someday. Just be sure that the location does not interfere with the buildings, septic or other things. My other concern would be that regulations continue to change and get more strict. I have a lakefront lot I inheritated from my parents, 40 X 120, in their day it would have been no problem getting a septic. Today, there is no way a septic system would be approved .... lot too small to seperate the well and septic and to keep away from neighbors systems. We were fortunate enough to purchase the other 40' lot next door. I am still a few years out from building, but I went ahead got a septic and well so I am grandfathered. (We do have a small cabin on the property now that we use). I did not want to get caught with a lot that I could not do anything with. Also, having a well will increase the value of the lot as well. Lastly, that is one more thing on the building list that is done.
Glen is right, get more estimates and talk to locals who recently had wells installed. Find out what they got and what they paid. In many counties well driller logs are available on line so you can see the specs on other wells drilled near by. Also, educate yourself as to what is truely required in your area for well specifications so that you only pay for what you need ie. don't pay for nice to haves but not necessarily required.
Also,
Talk to the drillers and see if you can't get a deal if you are willing to wait for their slow time of year. As you are in no hurry, maybe they will work with you.
I would be leary of sharing a well with another just because "you never know" and the money you save might be spent on a lawyer down the road a ways.
If you drillers are like the ones around here they're never in slow season
Here in the desert country of AZ shared wells are common. A person will take say a 5 acre property, get it surveyed and split into 4 1.25 acre pieces, have a well drilled and write a Shared Well Agreement. The agreement is then recorded and becomes a CC&R that goes with each lot. As each lot changes hands down the road the new buyer is agreeing to the terms of the Shared Well Agreement when making the purchase. Typically each land owner pays a monthly fee which goes into an account for the well. When there is a repair or maintenance needed there will be funds in the account to deal with it. Of course there are disagreements sometimes. "Lot A has 99 horses and I have one dog. Yet we both pay the same amount each month." The agreement then becomes a very important document and becomes the basis for resolving these differences. I have my own private well and prefer it that way. But sharing a well is a way of spreading out the expenses. Water is a big deal here in the desert. My well is 586' deep and considered shallow for this area.
Wow, Desdawg. With a 586 foot well considered shallow, I can see the point in shares. What makes me shy away from a shared arrangement is that it only takes one irresponsible idiot to spoil the fun. I do have a cynical view at times, so take that into consideration.
I also have a hard time sharing but it could be a solution for the right people. Finding out if you or they are one of the right people is the problem,
I guess I'm a bit of an independent dude.
That's it "shared well agrement"!!! I suppose who the neighbors are is important!! I might just suk it up ;Dand get my own well.
Now, I have the bug to snag a parcel in northwest GA south NC, Murphy or the Blairsville area. I called a local driller just for kicks and was told and confirmed that "on average" water is 645ft./ $15/ft plus $10/ft casement- what? so about 10k for that... just a comparison from Colorado to GA/NC. Anyone have a build in this area? ( off topic) :o
Quote
Now, I have the bug to snag a parcel in northwest GA south NC, Murphy or the Blairsville area. I called a local driller just for kicks and was told and confirmed that "on average" water is 645ft./ $15/ft plus $10/ft casement- what? so about 10k for that... just a comparison from Colorado to GA/NC. Anyone have a build in this area? ( off topic) :o
I'm just a bit south of Blairsville and I don't think an "average" depth means much. My well is 235' deep. My 2 closest neighbors are 85' & 135'. I know people with much deeper wells and some with deep dry holes. If you are on a mountaintop and all your neighbors have had trouble finding water it is likely you will too. A mile or so down the road 100' may well provide plenty of water. Something to look into before buying IMHO.
Our well is 625 or 675 ft deep although we only have the pump at 180 ft (these are rough guesses - Glenn knows exactly) but the people right below our property have lots of water & probably didn't have to dig too deep (again, Glenn would probably know how deep) as they are benefiting from our year round spring...
Happylogan, are water tanks inpractical in that area, in other words is the rainfall very sparse or is access to site them a huge problem? I would forget the money outlayed so far and go with maybe a couple of rainwater tanks if it were possible.
Hmm? rainwater tanks-- let me research this little nugget of information :-?
Rainwater tanks are far more common than wells in rural areas down here, and I would assume that your rainfall is higher than here. We run the house and garden from a 3000 gallon galvanised iron tank- though it's more common now for tanks here to be fibreglass..they last longer, are easier to move and can be used as a tempory water source while building ( filled from a tanker, maybe) and then hooked up permanently when the house is built. They also don't have the exposure to soil residues such as pesticides used in agriculture that wells do.
Often wondered about using rain water what with the talk about acid rain killing fish. I'm not a fish but.............
QuoteThat's it "shared well agrement"!!! I suppose who the neighbors are is important!! I might just suk it up ;Dand get my own well.
Now, I have the bug to snag a parcel in northwest GA south NC, Murphy or the Blairsville area. I called a local driller just for kicks and was told and confirmed that "on average" water is 645ft./ $15/ft plus $10/ft casement- what? so about 10k for that... just a comparison from Colorado to GA/NC. Anyone have a build in this area? ( off topic) :o
Sounds like they have to case it all the way - probably an unconsolidated formation that will cave and fill the hole unless it has a pipe in it - probably some perforation to let the water in -- casing is well pipe.
Sounds reasonable.
QuoteOften wondered about using rain water what with the talk about acid rain killing fish. I'm not a fish but.............
More acids are leached into the soil to decompose rock into clay in my area from Oak leaves and rain dripping through them than the "acid rain" has by itself. I wonder a bit about that theory. I suppose it applies in some places.
The main aussie concern is cattle dip sites, where very toxic chemicals were used in cattle yards to treat cattle for ticks, etc, and are still present in soil samples decades later.
Is that what was called "Better living through chemistry" in the old ads? (Real old ads)
;D...something to be said for cows with two udders, as well.
More faucets, more milk?
fourx.. Jonsey too if you are around
Just curious.
What are some of the details of your water collection? Metal roof I presume?
Do you filter it before it goes into your tank to remove debris that was on the roof or in the gutters?
How do you treat/filter the water for drinking purposes?
After your previous post I priced poly water tanks. They are relatively affordable. I found a 2500 gal tank for about $750.00 + shipping. Cheaper than building a concrete tank, and easy to add storage capacity.
Thanks in advance. Details of my FL system below.
My FL house had a sloped concrete roof. I built a 3" dam with aluminum angle to direct water to 2 holes through the roof that had 3" pvc pipes leading to the cistern. I had coarse screens covering the pvc to keep out most of the debris. The cistern had two chambers (~7,000 gal. ea.). The first one was mostly a settling tank. The second was filled by runoff from the top of the first and the water pickup was about 6" above the floor of the second chamber. I only drew water from the first chamber during dry spells when the other chamber was empty. The water was run through a charcoal filter before going to the house. 3 or 4 times a year I'd dump a quart of clorox into each chamber. Once a year or so I'd clean the chambers of silt at the bottom of each chamber. It was our only water supply.
In some areas of FL the powers that be got control of all groundwater. You didn't have to connect to the water line, but if you chose to use your existing well they put a meter on it and charged you just the same. The legislature refused to grant the authority over rainwater. It wasn't theirs until it hit the ground. The cistern avoided "Imperial entanglements".
I think the same logic :-? is coming to GA. The water folks are running lines absurd distances. Using the threat of drought and fear of a falling water table they will force everyone onto the pipeline. If you have a well they will put a meter on it. I don't want to spend $10K and then have to pay their absurd prices, not to mention deal with their bureaucracy.
I couldn't live there - somebody would die. >:(
In the San Joaquin Valley the irrigation districts control the ground water and tax you a small fee annually for using your well. I tolerate that but that is about as far as I feel they should be allowed to go. You pay whether you use the water or not -- even in the city. They do have groundwater percolation basins to restock ground water.
John C, firstly I should point out that I did all my own plumbing, so there are no doubt fancier tank hook-up systems available..what I did was run a poly stormwater pipe off the front and back gutters, joined it in a Y under the ground and then up to the top of the tank, which is about 15 feet from the house. In the bend where it comes out of the ground to the tank inlet I put an inspection plate- just a screw-on lid, and I vent the first run of water catchment out of it, then close it up and in goes the water.
On the tank side of the house pressure pump ( a 12 volt bilge pump-I'd far more like to gravity feed but the fall is not enough to run the tankless gas hot water system) there is a filter. Works great.
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The frame around the base was for Mrs Foux to plant her honeysuckle, which has now covered the tank.
fourx,
Thank You. Cisterns are far more common in OZ than in the states and I was curious how they are done down there. I am familiar with some in the Bahamas. There they often are incorporated into the foundation of the house. Think of a 4 or 5 foot crawl space full of water. The ones I was around held 25,000+ gal. They were almost never full and if full they provided a year or two of water.
Water=--- everyone needs it and it seems like the power that be want to control it.
There are parts of the country where water rights (long and convoluted story that I don't know much about, except that it dates back at least a century) trump being able to collect rainfall from your roof. Colorado is notorious. (In Australia, though, I've gathered, mostly from looking at interesting ads, they hate runoff and erosion enough that the situation is about reversed).
But having a well drilled in an area where the water table is falling is not a good idea either. Sara Andrews (a peculiar geologist who writes mysteries with a geological twist) wrote a book in which this was one of the themes. Dead Dry is the name of the book.
Falling water tables are happening in the mid-section of the country (Ogalala aquifer), might be spreading to the southeast if we are really turning dry, not just having a bad year.
I was set to do the well but some questions came up that I did not get answered to my satisfaction. First, the well company needed to put in a "driveway" for their rig to get onto the property. Upon my first hand inspection last week, that is correct. The road is graded and the drop from this graded road to the actual parcel is 6ft with a pitch of say 50-60degrees. The rig with the well equipment is long- semi type deal.So, I see that some fill,etc is needed to get the rig "in there" What I did not like and has yet to be resolved is the fact that the drilling co. is just that - a well comany I see no driveway expertise, but they've done it in the past.
My driveway is my business- so for him to get his equipment in and out I'm not paying 4k for a driveway which is not even my final driveway selection spot. Obvioulsy, the frustration was here,but logically, I need a well and if I can coordinate the location of the sited driveway with well drilling location, then I'll be okay. One of the porblems is that there is no competition for well drillers. This outfit is local and has dug for 30 years. I can get a driller from outside the area but that's travel time and money. I was not even offered a proposal for the driveway: width, length, 3/4 crushed what's the base material? grade, regrading??? what about the sloppy weather in the next 3 months? do you come back to compact and regrade? Initially, all I got was, " well, we need to put in a driveway before we can drill the well." Also, I did not know to ask about whether a power box and switch box was part of the well job. If anyone knows other questions to put forth, please fire away. I need to have all these in writing before I make another trip out there. So, I'm backing off now. I'm not used to dealing with the small town mentaility-- the way it's always been- idea. So, I did find an outfit in the next county over and will compare costs. The advantage i see in using the original is that he's done a couple dozen up in the parts where my spot is...if that counts for jack or not? I'll say, I have "X" dollars for the driveway take it or leave it if you want to sink my 15k well, I think we have what is known as some "wiggle room."
Bottom line: I have questions I need answered. I will reacquire drilling proposals. I will contact a driveway outfit for proposal and cost. Overall, the trip was productive.
FYI: I noticed what appeared to be "squatters at the near top of the mountain. I say squatters because two vehicles were in the proximity to the road one of which was in the trees. The other was on the road with rocks wedges under the tires. A squatters camp was apparent. Also, noticed an RV type rig. This has been a situation for the past 20 years before the mnt. was inhabited. Now, with my taxes doubling and some filing subdivisions already forming HOA's the days off squatting, as I see it, are near the end the same filing that has fored the HOA is the quadrant where squatters and refuse is located. The county plows to where the county road paved section ends. This is at the base of the incline up into the mnts. The county road is about 3 miles, paved and plowed - then it's another 6 to the property- of hard packed fairly rut free driving. I was very surprised at the quality of the road. I understand plowing is a neighborly affair for this section.
A local driller will have much better knowledge of he local conditions than someone farther away. It is worth something. They are not prone to sharing info with other drillers usually. I drilled for 10 years and am still a licensed driller.
That makes sense. I have no problem supporting the local economy--just don't gouge me >:( BTW a local watering hole charges $5.50 for an import on tap :'(
I won't say they don't take advantage of their monopoly. Just that they will be the ones who know what they are looking for when it comes to underground conditions, and the best way to make you a well in the local area.
It took me most of the ten years of drilling in the area I drilled in to decide that I no longer wanted to drill in one area with questionable underground conditions. It was an area prone to collapse in the future as well as underground shifting and breaking of casing.
I am not sure where you are drilling and what the challenges of the terrain are but here is more on my experience. My well needed to be at the bottom of the hill near the lake. The drive (path) from the road was sand and narrow because of large trees on each side. The first driller I talked to said his rig would not go through there without cutting the trees. He suggested I find a driller with a smaller rig.
The company who finally did my well was a larger company and had more equipment to choose from. I am sure the price was higher too but he said he had something that would go down there without any cutting or dozing. When they arrived, I was surprised how large the rig was, a six wheel drive unit but not semi trailer like. It was tight but he got down there. When he was done I thought he would try to turn around to drive back up. He said there was no room to turn around and could back up the hill with the six wheel drive. I didn't believe he could miss the trees going backwards and not get stuck backing. To my surprise, he backed out. He got stuck at the very top but they had a second truck which pulled him up with a tow strap. He said if the truck had not pulled him up, he would have brought in their dozer to pull him out, no extra charge.
It is a shame you don't have other drillers nearby to talk with. Glen is right, local experience is valuable as they are familier with both the water and drilling conditons.
It seems most wells are in areas that are not easy access so the rigs are built for that. I don't see why they are requiring a fancy drive. Also talk to a excavator and get their take and price on the drive. For the money you are talking about, you are entitled to a written list of what you will receive. You hate to be a pain but you have to protect yourself and the driller would want to protect himself so that everyone clear on what will be provided.
BassLakeBucki that makes sense. ; Excavating comp. makes sense too. I don't want some makeshift drive he's gonna use to drill, pay 4k then have it not up to snuff. In the course of my half dozen conversations with the comp. over the course of a year, I get the feeling that they don't really need the business. It's as if I'm getting a favor from them to put in MY well-- not the type of business etiquette I'm used to. Ex. I needed to ask question after question rather than have them tell me upfront what they would do. I researched and got help here before I asked but still got the impression that I was intruding- strange. I was trying to not be a too aggressive but now I'm to the point where if they don't lay it ALL out, I'm shopping-- I'm a BIG fan of disclosure.
Am I uptight about this first step of the build?- HE** YES! So, if they whack a tree or two can I live with it yeah, but I'd rather not let that happen. My cost to get out there for 2 days and watch this happen is about 500$ so, one trip is enough.
I did notice a well they recently sank near my lot. It was located in the frontage- say 25feet onto the property from the road. THe cutaway was a turnaround drive that may or may nothave previously been treed.
Well, here we go again
Don't let these challeges bring you down, it is all part of the process. There will be many more obstacles that you will need to find solutions for. When it is all said and done and you are sitting by you cabin enjoying the view and the peace, you will have a sense of pride knowing that what you are enjoying is a product of your own hard work. You could pay someone to take care of everything, but what fun would that be. I enjoy getting there as much as the destination. Heck, I tried to drill my own well at first. It didn't work out .... and I will be out a few hundred dollars, but I am glad I tried and for what I learned.
I can relate to trying to make arrangements from far away. My cottage is a 6 hour drive. I am lucky to have a very good friend who lives on the lake. He is my eyes and ears and mouth when I am having things done and I cannot be there. I owe him a lot ...... but we have a great time when we get together ;).
I am big on research and asking a lot of people a lot of questions. Some of my best solutions have come from people who are not experts, just regular do-it-yourselfers with a lot of experience and common sense. I just keep looking until I find a solution.
It is a shame your driller doesn't care about your business. Maybe it is worth looking for someone who wants to help you and make a fair profit. Sometimes neither is at fault, it is just a bad fit; he doesn't understand why you wnat to know everything and you don't understand why he won't tell you. I usually avoid those who don't care, there is always someone else who does.
Sorry about the philosophizing. Good Luck
Yeah.. the first step is becoming more challenging than I pictured.. I mean dig deep, hit water, TaDA!! ::) So, we will get everything that is important ready and checked, double checked.. But, I agree with you. It seems to be somewhat similar to the remodelI did on my first house... but family and I did it all so, the unknown X factor was eliminated. I'm solid with this well digger.. he knows his stuff but the driveway issue I'll have to research this from start to finish.