Framing a Stair

Started by John Raabe, June 14, 2006, 03:53:33 PM

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John Raabe

This from John Spier's article "Strong and Simple Stairs" in the April/May 2005 issue of Fine Homebuilding(#170).



Here's a step by step slide show on how to build a straight run stair: http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/h00164_qtpop.asp

PS - One of the oldest rules of thumb is that Rise + Run is 17" to 18". The old standby 10" run with 7.5" rise = 17.5".
None of us are as smart as all of us.

glenn kangiser

I used the above formula posted by John to determine that my stair design for this warehouse stair should work out pretty good.  The owner was not real concerned about meeting code or anything special as it is a family business, but I did try to keep it close.

The rise/run is 7 7/8 to 9 1/2



Grip strut comes in 12 foot lengths and can be cut to size.  Diamond plate comes in a few sizes but I ordered 1/8 x 4' x 12' and just had enough for this project by turning one of the box section sides around.  This stair goes up to a landing then turns right cutting into the roof of a work locker room but just clearing lockers below and extending back 18 inches from the landing to clear a beam above.  This stairway is mainly for attic storage access.


"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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MountainDon

Looks nice.

What kind of paint?
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

glenn kangiser

I had a choice -- here in the mountains there are few choices.  I could use some primer, or go to NAPA and get Industrial generic coating.  It's an Alkyd Enamel for general tractor/equipment painting etc. and it is made for metal.  I was going to shop around , but with the cool weather I wanted good stuff.

This was only $33 or so per gallon - dries in a couple hours and won't fall off.  I bought lacquer thinner to clean up and it mixed fine so I used it to thin the paint about 30% for spraying also.  I used to help the body man after hours at Dodge so learned a bit about painting.  I didn't waste a lot of time on it but it came out pretty good.

I stitch welded the sides then filled the cracks with automotive acrylic spot putty so it wouldn't leak light at night if the lights in the room were on and someone was standing outside.  Seals air leakage and looks better too.  Spot putty dries in about 15 minutes so it was soon ready to paint. 

Handrails to go next then install next week.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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John Raabe

Nice piece of work, Metal Man
None of us are as smart as all of us.


glenn kangiser

Thanks, John.

This is a little more up my alley.  Not quite the same as sawing a board but the knowledge and skills are able to be transferred back and forth.  Now if only my chainsaw would cut this stuff. ::)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

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glenn kangiser

#6
Since I started here and this is a semi-appropriate place, I will post the finished pix of the steel stair here also.

Installation was near perfect as far as going as it should with only a few minor issues.  The inset stair cutout had to be moved an inch to the right as the inside wall was not tight against the bricks.  I had to make a new bracket for the post on the top stair rail that doubles as a floor joist to ceiling tie. One in a hundred shot that it would come out directly under the roof joist -- it did -- easy fix. 


Here you can see the rail post extended to the ceiling hanger.  There was only 4'6 under the beam before I designed the stairs for the cutout - 7'0" now with plenty of head clearance.  The old roof of the breakroom was continuous at 8'6" - the white wall.  They were stepping across from a very old very light wooden duty stairs and missing the beam with their head - most of the time to store records. [frus]  You can see where the old stair handrail attached at the top of the big opening frame to the left (center of below pix).



Here is the inset steps inside the break room when done - 1/2" to the lockers --- a miss is as good as a mile, eh?

The ceiling/attic floor joists were temporarily supported with posts so they would not sag when they were cut out.  I did te main part of the cutout with a chain saw after laying out the lines.  Trim covers the edges.



3" angle welded and self drill screwed to the side of the inset stair supports the cut off ceiling/attic floor joists -3 of them- and ties the corner to the roof through the inset steel and handrail above.

The ladies who have to go up there -- one over 70yo, were overjoyed.  They said I did a -- beautiful -- wonderful -- outstanding -- or all of the above , job on the stairs and rails.  Can't remember their exact words but I even thought it looked pretty good.  I was designer, detailer, builder and installer on this one. ;D

There is a bit of variation in the steps as each one was hand made of 1/8 steel plate bent in the 50 ton press.  Hard to get exactly perfect since it was not a big commercial press break, but it looked good installed.  No rise or run variation as each step was adjusted for height to layout lines.  This was the only semi-easy way to seal the room and stairs.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

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MountainDon

Those are nice looking stairs, Glenn. 

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

glenn kangiser

"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

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MountainDon

Wow! This SMF is cool stuff. That last image rotated.  :o
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

glenn kangiser

"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

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PEG688

 

Yup looks good , just ain't code , but you know that I'm sure . If not , it would not pass the 4" sphere test at the rail  nor where the riser is . Around here we have to pass that goofie rule EVERY where on a stair, not just the hand railing part.   

I really like the open riser look , in a small home it's a way to trick the eye that there's more space. Problem is Mr. Inspector will not sign off on a "open look" stair , oh well rules are rules eh ::)
When in doubt , build it stout with something you know about .

glenn kangiser

I'm not sure what the deal is -- we still get to do a few of these in some places -- industrial. 

Also - this one couldn't be code as it was replacing a grandfathered stair and is a private family owned business- so I got it as close as I could for safety reasons - but this is more of a loft access -- loft or attic is only 6'1" clear under joists after you get past the beam which is at 4'6".

...and, damn -- forgot to ask for approval. :o
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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PEG688

Quote from: glenn kangiser on November 28, 2007, 11:23:38 PM


...and, damn -- forgot to ask for approval. :o



MTL fergot to get a permit as well eh  rofl

I don't blame you one bit , we avoid that when ever possible to!

In fact at the old shop I worked at the boss's , partners had a little routine when we 'd get , ah , ummmmmmmm, caught , they'd lokk at each other and say" Didn't YOU get the permit?????????" Hhehehehhhehe, screw the bastas............humm I mean , ah , ya  get the permit , really  [frus] [frus] [frus] [frus] [frus] [frus] [frus] n* n* n*

TADA,   [toilet] [toilet] [toilet] [toilet]
When in doubt , build it stout with something you know about .


PEG688

 Now that cool ,,,,,,,,,all those lil guys smashing thier heads on the wall  ,,

Could be a 15 yard  foul!!!  :o    :o excessive use of the smiley   :o :o First down ! 


 
When in doubt , build it stout with something you know about .

MountainDon

Quote from: PEG688 on November 28, 2007, 11:38:19 PM
Could be a 15 yard  foul!!!  :o    :o excessive use of the smiley   :o :o First down !
It's good to see ya' having a good time.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

glenn kangiser

 d* d* d*  Dagnabit - I thought the owner pulled it ???  uh - yeah -- right. :o

Owner there is a friend of my son - My son has handled their account for years but since he moved to LA he asked if I would take care of it.  We must abide by the owner's wishes.  Especially since he is a friend of the family. :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

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