Anyone have any info on Propane Refrigerators. Brands, reliability, size, and etc.. I guess I am asking for a sort of " Consumer Reports of CP member" . I did notice that they are generally small in comparison to convientional AC units except for the price. Any sugestions?
I am going to piggy-back on this thread. It's useful info for me too. I can say that with the research I have done, RV type fridges work well and up to 12CF in size. They will run off both electric and propane and use about 1.1lb per day. Dometic is a large RV brand.
I have used two of them for about 10 years both Servals. Use a lot of propane and as they got older the ice cubes start taking on a propane taste ??? Other than that they worked great.
I still have one free to good home :)
"I still have one free to good home"
Seriously?
Yes seriously!
It is out of a RV I don't believe it is a Serval though.
It has been sitting for 6 mo. and still smells like propane ???
I will look tomarrow and let you know.Or better yet I will take a picture and post it.
We used the one for about 5 or 6 years I guess, but as W said - it took a few hundred dollars -maybe 3 or 400 now-of propane per year.
As I recall, Dometic now owns Serval also.
I finally heaved the one out of our RV it was an old Dometic, I had it rebuilt once. They do seem to only be able to keep up in moderate temps, if you end up in a really warm spell its time to get out the ice chest. From talking to others and seeing the fans they aftermarket for them I think that's true on more than just the one we had. I put in a small electric and was much happier... but on jobsites we always had some form of heavy power handy.
In this 5th wheel I have a Norcold. The 5th wheel is a 1989 model, and I assume this is the original model. About 2002 it quit and I hauled it out, took it to an "authorized service center" in the Seattle area and they replaced what wasn't working. i don't remember exactly what broke, but it was about $750 so it was a significant repair.
Its worked since, mostly on AC, but I switch it to propane when using big power tools. It's only about 7.5 cubic feet and does not self defrost.
Some friends down the road have two Dometics, and although small by normal standards, they look like a regular fridge. The model I have is more like a cabinet, sitting in an "alcove" about 2.5' off the floor. Considering the fact that this is an RV, and used as a "permanent" residence, I've not been unhappy with it, although defrosting is not my favorite pastime.
The ones I am most interested in hearing about are Crystal Cold. They have combo models up to 18CF. Supposedly used about .3 gallons of propane a day. Anyone have one of these?
Try to find one with an electronic control rather than a mechanical control. Ours struggles with consistent temperature depending on the ambient temps. We had to learn how to use it as well. They don't have much horsepower when it comes to cooling stuff down. We always pre-cool our food before inserting it in the RV fridge. We also learned to not go in/out of the fridge much.
Quote from: phalynx on July 05, 2009, 09:16:12 AM
The ones I am most interested in hearing about are Crystal Cold. They have combo models up to 18CF. Supposedly used about .3 gallons of propane a day. Anyone have one of these?
Yes I and several of my offgrid customers use crystal cold. There is nothing better at this date! There are tricks to making a perfect install and if in the design phase of the kitchen I can give some pointers.
Quote from: Dave Sparks on July 06, 2009, 10:39:22 AM
Quote from: phalynx on July 05, 2009, 09:16:12 AM
The ones I am most interested in hearing about are Crystal Cold. They have combo models up to 18CF. Supposedly used about .3 gallons of propane a day. Anyone have one of these?
Yes I and several of my offgrid customers use crystal cold. There is nothing better at this date! There are tricks to making a perfect install and if in the design phase of the kitchen I can give some pointers
[waiting] [waiting]
In Alaska, Lowes and Home Depot sel Danby propane fridges for about $999.
Ken here they are a special order item. I haven't checked with them most of my searches has been on the net. Just trying to get a feel for what appears to be the best and most reliable brand.
I grew up with the old round top Servels & we probably went through 4 or 5 in in 15 years of living in the sticks. I wish i had one now because I think I could convert it to run on something other than propane. Maybe some home "Home Brewed" white gas ;) Cause if I was realy wanting out I don't want rely on a refinery. 8)
I have had this model (see the link below) for about four years now. A couple of times per year the CO output goes up. Cleaning soot from around the burner and brushing out the exhaust flue returns it to a cleaner burning condition (normal maintenance).
The interior light works on 2 D batteries. I might still be on the original batteries had I not left the door slightly open overnight one time.
It needs to be defrosted 2-3 times per year. It takes 1-2 days to defrost.
The piezo ignitor has never been successful at relighting the burner and it requires some contortion for one person to hold the valve open and light it with a butane lighter.
Overall construction quality = cheap. But it has worked well and has no moving parts.
Made in Brazil and as you can see the sam refrigerator gets different brand names stamped onto it (Danby, Consul, any more?)
Tom
http://www.bensdiscountsupply.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=408
Tha Amish make the Crystal Cold for themselves and others. It is one of the few gas units that will make ice in the hottest places in the world. I can give a link to one of the best propane service guy's in the world up near Vallejo California.
The 15 and 18 are now certified for use without a vent but I use one anyway. They were Amana boxes without the electrics. Ervins cabinet shop in Illonois is the manufacturer and has been good over the years.
These units look like normal appliances and have a high wife acceptance factor!
To make them last they need to have room around them for air and a notched cabinet back up to high ceilings really helps lower gas usage and running temps.
There are no quirks to using them except defrost 4 times a year and a vacume with a shop vac. Ice is made in about 14 hours, mas y menos.
I have had good luck with 4 and one had to have a rebuild after 5 years. My trophy offgrid home near La Paz (baja) has the same unit now for 11 years.
When I do an offgrid home consult I use this unit in my 24V never run a generator design. It gives the user a decent amount of battery storage, for a reasonable price so the homeowner can be pretty normal without too many worries on cloudy days. They are also great for early on in building your home as you can discuss prices from a position of strength when you have the cold ones.....
Dave are those AC as well as propane?
I really wish they were as it would be a perfect diversion load!
The link for repairs and a wealth of knowlege on many different brands is at gasrefrigeration.net
I think many brands have this option. I will have to research it a little more to determine which do.
We have an RV at our place in AR which has a Dometic fridge. Look for the recent recalls some of the Dometic units as some can leak the gas used to cool which I think is amonia and if running on propane this could be an issue. We run ours on 12 most of the time when there. Still need to get the recall done which includes a metal shield.
Yes there are many that have the AC option but none that are a decent size in my opinion. After we built our house and moved out of the RV there was no option for me with my significant other.......
Hi I am new here so I hope I do this right. My Dh and I lived in an RV for almost 4 years. We had a 4 door Norcold which was propane and electric which was not very efficient.
We just built an Off Grid home last summer and I have an 18cu ft stainless steel Diamond Propane refrigerator. It works well and it is supposed to use 1.7 gallons of propane per week. I don't know how to verify that. It does need to be manually defrosted which takes a few hours once every 2-3 months. So far I have no trouble with it but we are thinking about more panels for an electric refrigerator.
We started off with all propane appliances and I think we will gradually switch over to more self sufficient options.
Hey Lisaandmike... I think I know you... You have the huge TN thread on your home building right?
Hey phalynx,
That's me. how come you didn't share this thread with me, lol? It looks like a lot of interesting stuff.
Lisa
This is a great place. Lot's of a great people here all with one goal in mind, doing exactly what you did. What's funny is, we started and almost finished our house here in TX and have been following your thread at the same time. Seeing TN the views you have are making us move. We have been looking for land in E TN and E KY. I follow your entries every week and just can't wait to do it myself. The wife has been emailing real estate agents all week. Funny how things come around. There is a good thread on here about off grid you might want to join in on.
I am in this thread to figure out the best fridge to get. And it's really all your fault. (See honey,,, if they can do it, we can TOO!!!!)
Oops, I am so sorry I got you into trouble. Thanks for the welcome. Make sure you visit TN and KY before you buy. I wouldn't want you to end up unhappy. Good luck with the land search. That's a tough thing to do around here.
BTW, this is where I got my refrigerator.
http://www.bensdiscountsupply.com/
He also has a video link:
http://www.youtube.com/BensDiscountSupply
Yes Ben's is a good supplier of the Crystal Colds or as Lisa points out the newer "marketing" version the Diamond. I still think I would buy from Ervins cabinet shop as they are the Diamonds owner and manufacturer. But Bens is real close...or out west I would buy from Gasrefrigeration.net in the Ca. Bay area.
I also am going to replace it someday with electric when they build the type of electric I want. I probably will have to build one like I had on my sailboat. :( It will be a holding plate system that runs for a few hours (when the sun is out) and holds cold for 20 hours or so in summer. If you marketed these right you could sell them to grid-tie folks who pay for electricity on a sliding or time of use scale.
We have a new Dometic (Servel 400). It's only been in service since the 4th, but so far it seems as great as some neighbors say theirs is (they got theirs 5 years ago and it still works as well as when new). I looked at many makes and decided on the Servel/Dometic as I haven't seen much bad things said about them. We like it over the Danby as the Servel/Dometic has a larger freezer. With the thermostat control set at #4 (range is up to 10) it makes ice cubes in about 4-5 hours. The fridge interior runs between 36 and 40 degrees.
The temperature conditions where the fridge is used can make a big difference in performance.
I believe the exterior air intake and exhaust vent is a great idea for the burner. I say that for a couple reasons. #1. If you are slack on your maintenance any propane fridge may begin making CO and that will kill you. This is maybe more likely to be an issue with units left turned off for a period of a few months. Spiders make webs in the flue, obstructing the air flow. My neighbors had a close call in spring. #2. it helps move a lot of the combustion heat outside the building, keeping the interior cooler in warm/hot weather. If the cabin is small and tight it may make it work better and be safer as non-vented propane fridges are never recommended for use in a sleeping space.
I am also toying with the idea of cutting a hole through the wall (exterior wall) and mounting the fridge with the entire back end outside the cabin. It would be sheltered from rain/snow etc. This would allow the heat from the inside of the fridge to be vented outside, also helping to keep the cabin cool in warm/hot weather. That's down the list of projects a ways though.
FWIW, we purchased the Servel from thenaturalhome.com (http://thenaturalhome.com) We've bought other things from them before and have been impressed with their service and integrity. Depending on where one lives there may be some freight savings available. I picked ours up at a local Albuquerque warehouse and saved $75+ over truck delivery.
I may also be adding some side and top insulation at some future point; again, it's down the project list as ways.
One more thing on propane fridges. Years ago I found that I could increase the warm/hot weather performance of the RV fridge with careful air flow control behind the unit. The condenser is located near the top rear of any propane powered fridge. It requires air flow to remove the heat; the better the air flow the better the heat removal. If you restrict the space behind the condenser fins with a panel that extends down the rear of the unit a ways it causes a chimney effect. More air moves through the fins rather than through the empty space behind them. I was able to drop the thermostat setting down to 1.5, from the 3 to 4 we used to need to use before this modification in the RV.
Quote from: Whitlock on July 05, 2009, 12:59:21 AM
Yes seriously!
It is out of a RV I don't believe it is a Serval though.
The RV Dometics are completely different from the Dometic/Servel home fridges
Quote from: MountainDon on July 12, 2009, 03:55:51 PM
I believe the exterior air intake and exhaust vent is a great idea for the burner. I say that for a couple reasons. #1. If you are slack on your maintenance any propane fridge may begin making CO and that will kill you.
I would change this to read "if you are slack on your maintenance or a failure occurs the worst that should happen is you set off the CO detector."
Quote from: Dave Sparks on July 13, 2009, 03:18:04 PM
... worst that should (ED: emphasis added) happen is you set off the CO detector."
Let me add that the maintenance of the burner had been slacked off in the example I gave. This also extended to the batteries in the CO detector; hence it never went off. Severe headaches that cleared adter being away all day and then returned once they spent another night in the cabin were the indicator that something was amiss.
The CO detector had a low battery warning. However, over the winter absence the batteries crapped right out to where the detector low battery warning would not even beep a warning.
I still vote for the inlet and outlet venting of the burner.
I think if anyone installs gas service of any type a CO detector should be installed. As for me I will have several gas appliances and plan to have the same maintenance schedule as the fire alarms with regards to the batteries. Being basicly off grid the battery type is all that I will have so when our times changes in the spring they will be replaced.
Excellent plan John. Batteries are cheap compared to funerals. The CO detector I have has an LED that blinks to indicate it is "live". Then it has a low battery warning beep that I know from the RV will last for several months through the winter.
As a side note I've read that CO detectors should be replaced every so often; 5 years rings a bell but that could be wrong. The one in the RV also is a propane detector.