Hello.. everyone..
I'm nearing a place in my life, where I can possibly buy a small bit of acreage and build a very small cabin. I have some experience in construction/remodeling. I'm not an expert at anything but, carpentry. And more or less a jack of all trades in other areas of construction.
I started out with a 16x24 cabin design, 2 stories high. Now, I'm thinking 12x24, with a second floor. Be cause I'm trying to cut down on size and materials, so I don't end up broke before I finish...
I originally wanted to make the second floor, complete with a door, separating both floors, for better comfort for heating and cooling. I have seen designs with an open loft, that would save me money on materials and build time. But, I'm wondering if an open loft would be tolerable in summer, with heat rising up into the sleeping area... I have never lived/slept in an open loft..
Any opinions on the open loft design or experience you might have with it....?
Thanks
And I'm very glad to find this site..
Welcome to the forum! The problem with a loft in my neck of the woods is seen in the winter, when heat from the wood stove tends to make the upper floor like a sauna. The only solution is to move the air around. If you anticipate being connected to the electrical grid that would be real easy to ensure. If you plan on being off-grid, you'll have to do it old school - have adequate ventilation through strategically placed windows.
Because we often have lots of snow, it's common up here to see a 12:12 pitch cathedral ceiling and the second floor having a 4' knee wall. This gives you pretty decent living space and sometimes results in lower material cost. That cost advantage probably disappears when dealing with putting roofing on that steep a pitch.
I generally don't like lofts as living or sleeping space, unless there is a good ventilation system that moves the air much like a central heating or cooling system. Other wide heat rises and makes the loft too warm any time of the year if the main floor is comfortable. Decent access is another issue. I don't look at ladders as something I want to use for regular daily access, and good easy to use stairs take up too much floor space in a small cabin. Those reasons affected our decision to build a 16 x 30 foot, one floor, one room (except for bathroom/shower), no loft at all, cabin. We use some furniture to partly separate the sleeping area and its bed from the balance of the cabin. One big room basically. In wintery weather, the bed end is cooler than the other end which is great. In warm weather, the entire place is about equal temperature which is bearable as we have windows or screened doors on three sides and the evenings cool off nicely almost all the time. The 8800 foot elevation helps with that. We also built the cabin orientated in such a manner that the prevailing winds can blow one side and out the other.
I will for sure go separate floors.. then...
Gather water off of metal roof, and enough solar power to keep a small window a/c unit and small frig going.. and that's about it.. very simple..
For off grid A/C have a look at a mini-split. They are much more efficient than a window unit. Yes, they do cost more. They can also heat if bought as a cool-heat combo unit. Much quieter as the noisy compressor unit is remote. The indoor unit just moves air with a quieter system.
Have a look at inverter compressor fridges. LG has a nice medium small one. They are more efficient and they do not have a whopping big peak surge like a regular compressor fridge. I had a bookmark, but am on my phone and can't find it. Either homedepot or lowes had it listed ... 24" wide IIRC. 10 year warranty on inverter compressor fridges from LG.
I built a 12x16 with a 10' loft. I would say the loft is pretty consistently 10 degrees warmer than the downstairs. I wouldn't rule out a loft just based on the temperature differences though. It can pay off in the winter if you don't mind it a little chillier downstairs.
A single story is much nicer from a construction/maintenance perspective. Everything gets a lot more difficult at the peak of a 12:12 pitch roof on a 1 1/2 story house...especially when you don't like heights 😁
Just noticed that you mentioned air conditioning...that's a deal changer. If I had ac upstairs that would really eliminate the main downside to a loft for me. Keeping it cool in the summer is doable even with fans.
As far as loft access I built a set of Jefferson stairs that John shows in his plans. They are quite functional once you get used to them.
Quote from: MountainDon on June 23, 2018, 06:56:43 PM
For off grid A/C have a look at a mini-split. They are much more efficient than a window unit. Yes, they do cost more. They can also heat if bought as a cool-heat combo unit. Much quieter as the noisy compressor unit is remote. The indoor unit just moves air with a quieter system.
Having used literally over 100 mini-split heat pumps for myself and my clients. I would say that the good models that are inverter based, the outdoor unit is almost as quiet as the indoor unit. They are not really noticeable as a sound source. The one I installed recently was thought to be defective until I got within 5 feet of the outdoor unit d*
We live upstairs in a 2 floor building and the negatives of it are easily outweighed by the mini-split. In winter there is the positive of how easy it is to heat. The ground floor garage is about 75F in 100F temperatures so it makes it a good place to work in summer.
There are always 2 sides to the story! Well, mostly....
Good to hear, or not to hear, that many newer units are quieter. I have only been exposed to older more noisy ones. Or I have missed the newer ones because I could not hear them! And yes, I do wear my hearings aids allthe time and they work, amplify, quite well.
My plan is to be very economical, as i go.. if I end up with enough money, I'll opt for a better Frig and A/C set up..
Right now, I plan to convert a chest type freezer to a frig. With solar power. That can be done very reasonably, with only one down side. I must bend over to get food in and out... But, I can live with it.. (I think..)
I'll go with the higher end A/C unit , as described above, if I can afford it. If not, I'll go efficient, small window unit and solar power it, and use a soft start on everything.. that needs power..
And run some 12 volt power for lighting.. where needed...
Quote from: Beavers on June 24, 2018, 01:41:05 AM
I built a 12x16 with a 10' loft. I would say the loft is pretty consistently 10 degrees warmer than the downstairs. I wouldn't rule out a loft just based on the temperature differences though. It can pay off in the winter if you don't mind it a little chillier downstairs.
A single story is much nicer from a construction/maintenance perspective. Everything gets a lot more difficult at the peak of a 12:12 pitch roof on a 1 1/2 story house...especially when you don't like heights 😁
Agreed, I like my plan, but I am going to struggle a bit working on a ladder to get the outside completed.. I'm not looking forward to that..
If I could find a plan, for a one story, that would fit, my needs, I'd would consider it, for sure..
If you have a present set of plan drawings, it is easy enough to change the length of the building. Making it wider requires making adjustments to rafter and floor/ceiling joists. We can help with that. If there is an upper floor that can be changed to be a simple rafter supported roof or a truss roof.
If you are able to use computers, use new software, have a look at the sketchup plugins that member Medeek (http://design.medeek.com/resources/resources.html) is developing. Scroll down on the resources page.
Quote from: MountainDon on June 24, 2018, 02:07:07 PM
Good to hear, or not to hear, that many newer units are quieter. I have only been exposed to older more noisy ones. Or I have missed the newer ones because I could not hear them! And yes, I do wear my hearings aids allthe time and they work, amplify, quite well.
I really am not saying Don that the newer ones are quieter. My 11 year old Sanyo is just as quiet in/out as my spare that I bought last year.
I am saying that if the unit is inverter based, it will be quieter. This is because the compressor is variable speed controlled by the inverter and the differential of programmed to actual temperature. The larger the differential the higher the compressor speed.
When I discovered this feature I guessed that I could control the power by reducing the differential. Back then we did not have as much solar and so it was a huge advantage to an offgrid home.
With or without hearing aides the inverter based unit is really amazing still to me. d*
I understand. My first exposure to mini splits was years ago in Europe. They seemed to be noisier than yours. I did not stop to think inverter vs non inverter type. I don't have one myself and everyone around here with A/C has the conventional central system.
Right, the central systems with 30% duct loss and just now US is making a variable speed. With 30 SEER the best units from LG, Fujitsu, and Mitsu easily beating the US norm of Americans wanting to cool down a hot house in 30 minutes. Once you get away from the HVAC community mindset there is a huge amount of power wasted cooling. And with 4 times the efficiency heating of resistance heating, inverter based splits do really well in winter. [cool]
In other news... have the fires slowed down in NM?
Fires... nothing is seriously endangered right now, but there are 5 fires I know of. Today another National Forest, the Carson, announced stage 3 total closure except for one district. The Santa Fe NF, around us, has been all closed, stage 3 since June 1, I think it was. It is extremely dry. Our weather station indicate 5% humidity since noonish. Temps falling now but still 80 F at 8800 feet elev. Ground fuel moisture is at 2 gm. That's tinder dry.
That is dry. It is almost humid here at 29%...
Humid here today too.... 13% and 90 F. Over the past week I have been clear coating (Minwax Polycrylic) kitchen cabinet doors. After 45 to 60 minutes I would stop and either clean the brush of drop it in water and continue with a new or clean brush as it is so dry the brush begins to get build up on it. It's so dry I can literally watch "paint" dry. No problem to do a second coat only a couple hours later. There are upsides to darn near everything. ;)
We're just the opposite here, I'm painting my truck down in the shop. first I tried draining the compressor every few minutes, no go. I've ended up putting it in my other truck with the ac on max to get dry enough air to spray.
Quote from: MountainDon on June 25, 2018, 05:02:37 PM
If you have a present set of plan drawings, it is easy enough to change the length of the building. Making it wider requires making adjustments to rafter and floor/ceiling joists. We can help with that. If there is an upper floor that can be changed to be a simple rafter supported roof or a truss roof.
If you are able to use computers, use new software, have a look at the sketchup plugins that member Medeek (http://design.medeek.com/resources/resources.html) is developing. Scroll down on the resources page.
I've spent a couple of days thinking about it, I'm leaning towards a 24x24 single level... shed roof design, one bdrm.. cabin..
I just need to put together a materials list, now. And look at the cost...
Doing a single plane roof 24' wide, if stick framed, would need a central beam and post line. It could be trussed with a monoslope truss that spans from exterior wall to exterior wall. More typically it could be clear spanned with a common gable truss which would be smaller and easier to set, I've done these with a crew of 3 by hand easily. Alternatively to get a second floor I've ordered attic trusses that do need to be crane set but create the second floor and roof in a day.
Some time last century I worked a couple summers on a crew building log cabin rental units. These were 24x28 built with 3-sided logs and made for a decent little rental. The design called for gable trusses, and that allowed us to get a roof on pretty quickly. The log walls carried all the load. With two guys setting trusses, we would get the trusses up and blocked in the morning and the plywood sheathing finished in the afternoon.
If you're building remote or building alone, trusses aren't very practical. But the time savings they provide make it worthwhile in just about every other situation.
Quote from: Don_P on June 30, 2018, 07:59:25 AM
Doing a single plane roof 24' wide, if stick framed, would need a central beam and post line. It could be trussed with a monoslope truss that spans from exterior wall to exterior wall. More typically it could be clear spanned with a common gable truss which would be smaller and easier to set, I've done these with a crew of 3 by hand easily. Alternatively to get a second floor I've ordered attic trusses that do need to be crane set but create the second floor and roof in a day.
Right, I will have a load baring wall, down the middle. So, I can easily distribute the roof weight. And only span 12'..on each side. I can gather the run off from the roof on one side and capture the rain, filter and use as needed.. using a shed roof design..
I'll stay with the shed roof design, unless I happen to find a nice piece of land, farther north, in snow country. (So, I'll keep that roof option open, for now..)
Quote from: ChugiakTinkerer on June 30, 2018, 11:07:26 AM
Some time last century I worked a couple summers on a crew building log cabin rental units. These were 24x28 built with 3-sided logs and made for a decent little rental. The design called for gable trusses, and that allowed us to get a roof on pretty quickly. The log walls carried all the load. With two guys setting trusses, we would get the trusses up and blocked in the morning and the plywood sheathing finished in the afternoon.
If you're building remote or building alone, trusses aren't very practical. But the time savings they provide make it worthwhile in just about every other situation.
I agree. Trusses are smart. I'll be building this on my own..
So, I'll stick build it, in my own time. I'll be patient and keep the faith and do a proper job..😉😉😉
Having done many offgrid homes in very remote areas, I would just add that it is amazing how far a truss builder will go with a crane these days.
The same with drywall and roofing all delivered to the the roof or second floor.
Be safe out there 8)
Quote from: Dave Sparks on July 02, 2018, 08:34:02 AM
Having done many offgrid homes in very remote areas, I would just add that it is amazing how far a truss builder will go with a crane these days.
The same with drywall and roofing all delivered to the the roof or second floor.
Be safe out there 8)
That's for sure...
the rafters will be fun to build.
The roof, I'll do with a metal kit, ordered from the lumber yard.
But, the sheet rock, I might have it installed by a contractor. Then finish it in a knock down texture, so that my finishing skills won't be exposed.. And I personally like the knock down texture , myself..
I'm not about to haul sheet rock around. That's as hard on me as lifting shingles onto a roof.. (I'm not that young anymore...😂😂😂)
I can't get a proper image , easily pasted..
But, this is my rough draft..
24x24, with a load baring wall, down the middle.. cost will be about the same as my original design using 2 levels.. And I might be able to finish it quicker, working on one level..
https://www.dropbox.com/s/frhyc57mvdznijq/20180705_125323.jpg?dl=0