OK. It's been a few years since I first started coming here. After a few years of setbacks (purchasing an inaccessible property) and time constraints, I just got off the phone with the building inspector and am being issued my building permit. I have an excavator scheduled to start the foundation this weekend. I will upload some pictures when I have a chance. So far I got the field brush hogged, the mail box in, the septic marked, and the foundation marked. I didn't want to jinx it, so I didn't start posting till I got approval to build.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/410c3680.jpg)
Congrats Squirl! Looking forward to seeing the picts.
Congratulations !
Can't wait for the pics. Good luck with your build.
So it started out as a field. So I rented a brush hog from home cheapo. It worked pretty well. It took all day.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture008.jpg)
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture010.jpg)
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture028.jpg)
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture048.jpg)
So I went to the back near the tree line for the septic. I measured 20 ft from the tree line and 15 ft from the property line. The engineer told me that I needed three lines 6 ft on center 35 ft long. So that is what I marked.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture060-1.jpg)
All three lines.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture067-1.jpg)
I'm going for passive solar. In the winter the sun is at a 27 degree angle. So plugging that in to a right triangle calculator with a tree height of 50 ft for the trees on the south side gives me a shadow distance of 100 ft. So I measured 100 ft from the tree line for the minimum distance of the house from the tree line.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture068.jpg)
Now I had to find south and line the building up. I got out the compass, level , and T square. I lined up the compass and used the clip to keep it at a right angle with the level. I used the level to make the compass level to get an accurate reading. Then I used the T-square to get a square corner. So I found that NY, NY has a compass correction of 10 degrees and Buffalo has a correction of 15 degrees. So I split the difference. To correct I turned north to 12.5 degrees.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture072.jpg)
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture075.jpg)
Nice and square. 36 feet
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture077.jpg)
20 x 30
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture084.jpg)
I am looking foreword to seeing your project take shape. I am beginning to think ours will never happen... [cool]
squirl: So excited to see you starting, congrats man! BTW I am really jealous of your 3 branches of 35feet. That sounds like a very diy septic ( not sure if thats your plan but...but still cheaper then our 5 lines and 50feet per ) . The soil must be deep there!
It looks nice up there also.
Actually the soil failed miserably. I was really angry about that. I was negotiating with the seller with the only two contingencies in the contract. First, no oil or gas lease on the property. Second, it would perc for a conventional gravity fed septic system. So we signed all the contracts, and I hired an engineer. I went with Mount Vision Engineering. They were the same price for a conventional system as what you had contracted and the building inspector recommended them as the best work he had seen. So I paid him $500 to do the preliminary report and I had to pay JR Plumbing ($200) to dig the deep hole. As I was standing there with the building inspector, realtor, and engineer, the engineer looks around and says "this is going to fail." I was shocked. He then went on to say, "yeah, I tested it right over there two years ago." The realtor got a panicked look on her face. He didn't seem to want to tell me that he had already tested the property and it failed two years ago until after he showed up. Oh yeah, and the owners owned the property for 25 years. So everyone knew and didn't tell me. I was already under contract and the only way out was to get a letter from him stating it failed for a gravity fed conventional septic system. They hit rock at 2 ft. There is only 13" of loam soil. That 13"s percs at 20 minutes per inch. So they were going over all the options, sand $20,000, Peat $25,000, they didn't even give the price for more expensive options. I knew enough of the process that I know most of that price would be in just fuel shipping in 1000's of tons of fill. So I said, what about composting? The engineer and building inspector said, that I wouldn't need a septic system at all, just grey water treatment. The plumbing contractor didn't seem pleased with that. With my reading of the regs, I was a little surprised by this. They assured me that was the case. I figured if a NY state engineer and building inspector said it was true, those were the two people I needed. During that morning the building inspector was also recommending potable rainwater catchment and a wind turbine. I asked what I needed for the wind turbine, such as engineer plans or stamps. The inspector said, I fill out the form, he inspects the setbacks and then he approves it. So far he has been very easy to work with and has had great suggestions. With all that surety, I wanted to stay in his jurisdiction rather than dealing with the whole county. He is defiantly a sticker for the energy code too, which is a good thing in my book. The seller came down in price to accommodate the extra cost of the composting system. I don't know about how much value it would lose if I tried to resell it. I expect it would be a lower valued property anyway because it is off grid. All the neighbors seemed to agree it was going to be a quiet area for a long time with no one else building around me if I don't run power.
After that long winded story, the 3 lines of 75 ft of ARC 24 Infiltrators are for a greywater composting system for a 1 bedroom. I double checked the calculations of the engineer here:
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10857.msg138760#msg138760
The other thing that worries me is that rock layer. I am getting the larger mini (35 hp) delivered Saturday. If it can't make it through the inspector said he would let me put the footing right on that layer of rock. "That's not going anywhere" I hope he would be alright with an unheated FPSF design too.
Yes, it will be DIY septic. I will post plenty of pictures. Wow, 250 ft is that maximum size for a two bedroom.
Squirl where did you find the info for the sun angle at your latitude?
Here is the declination map from the Sunkit (http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings/64.html)
(https://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/countryplans/declination.jpg)
The sunkit (click link above) has much more information than just locating true South.
Note to some who may not have explored our CountryPlans Home Page (http://www.countryplans.com/) - Plan and publication sales are what make the free forum possible. We all appreciate that support.
thanks john!
I also double checked using this:
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/Declination.jsp
12° 55' W
I purchased a set of plans too. I just went in a different direction.
Here is the floor plan I submitted.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/plan.jpg)
Glad to hear you're underway (almost). Looking forward to it.
Alan
This will be fun to watch
What are you planning for off grid ..... sounds like wind/solar
do you know the wind conditions there ?
The wind conditions are very good, but not great. I am on the back side of the mountain, but still on a ridge. The property is flat and open from west to east, which is the direction most of the wind blows. The land drops off at around a 20% slope 150 feet to the east of the property and drops 250 in elevation. The slope is less dramatic to the west, but still drops off to the west by 350 ft. This was very nice because even in the hot weather last weekend, I had a cool breeze the whole time. I plan on going with solar for the initial setup. More code and inspection people are familiar with it. The nice part is the building inspector is familiar with solar because he has a 2.5 KW system on his house, although he said a battery based system is something new for him. We started out our initial conversation discussing articles in homepower magazine. When he stopped by for my septic inspection he goes "this would be a great site for a wind turbine." That was music to my ears coming from a building inspector. The peak of the mountain is my other property and has an elevation 200 ft higher than this property. That has a peak higher than anything for 6 miles. If I put up a 90-100 ft tower at this site, I would still have more than a 30 ft height clearance of any obstruction within half of a mile.
For the solar I have to worry about the shadow from the trees in the winter. I am debating a tall ground setup, a tall pole setup, or on the roof. I am not a fan of roof mounts because of the difficulty of angle tilting, but it would give me a 16' height advantage.
My own passive solar strategy (an attached sunroom and passive solar water heating) was flawed by the fact that I forgot that trees get taller over time.
When we built in 1983 we carved out a large sunny spot in the middle of our 5 acre patch of woods. We built on the northern side of this clearing and I was careful to make sure the sunchart showed that the house and sunroom saw full sun on the day the sun was lowest in the southern sky (December 21st). So we were good for the 1980's.
Fast forward to now and the trees are over twice the height they were 28 years ago. We now inhabit a clearing with tall majestic sentinels on all sides. The summer is lovely but we don't see a lot of the sun in the winter.
I think I might wait until the price of timber goes up and then call in the loggers. But that will be a tough decision. My wife has names for some of our trees.
PS - Nice project Squirl :D
The mountain top site sounds great for the mill
is it close enough to run power to the house ?
Good to see your start! :) :)
If you plan on seasonal tilt adjustment for the PV modules a pole mount makes that easier than a roof mount. Poles also get above the ground snow.
Well I just got back from digging the foundation. I will probably have the time to post pictures tomorrow or Wednesday.
Yes the trees will probably be cut down. That upsets me a little, but not much. Most are eastern white pine and there is not even close to a straight section in most of them. They are twisted, broken, and split. They wouldn't even make great firewood. Since they have little productivity other than to block my solar access, they will be replaced. Probably by fruit trees or hardwoods. It is good mountain soil that is perfect for apples and pears. I found two apple trees in the forest so far. The problem is they are 50 ft tall. Also along the tree line to the south west is some type of hickory tree with nuts the size of half my thumb. I don't know what I'm debating whether they should go too. The county extension service has a forestry department. From what I've read, for a small fee, they will send out a certified forester to do a walkthrough and give recommendations of how to manage your forest and which trees are valuable to loggers. After the house is built, that will be one of the first calls. I placed the house around 125 ft from the tree line. The trees would have to get to over 65 ft, or I could cut back the tree line. It is an easy to remember 2:1 ratio.
Windpower, the top of the mountain is 2000 ft away, and there is a property in between. One of my new neighbors (who I don't think is happy I'm there) came over and proceeded to tell me what a poor location I bought because it was so windy. :) I again had a 5-10 mph breeze almost the whole weekend.
Don't get too attached to the design, even though he said he is issuing the building permit, he failed individual parts. One of the key ones was that you cannot have an electrical panel in a closet, and because I access the utility room through a closet, which is what he said is not allowed.
Squirl:
Thanks for the tip about a possible extension service forester. I'll see if we have one.
We have 73 acres in Claiborne County,Tennessee. Last fall I contacted our Area Forester. He walked the entire property and produced both soil maps an timber management maps. He then provided a timber management plan based on the soil and existing timber.
No charge (property taxes, I suppose).
A fabulous resource, expecially for those of us who don't know everything.
John
As promised, here are the pictures.
12 yards of #2 crushed stone for the footing and septic.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture096.jpg)
The machine. It was a 35 hp Mini.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture099.jpg)
It was just enough to get through the fragipan layer of clay and shale. Any smaller would never have made it. I wish I could have gotten a bigger one, but not many people would rent to a non-contractor. It took a bit to the hang of. I rented it for the weekend. I got 12 hours of run time. I ran over that. I started trying to dig a double wide swath. Here I am breaking ground.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture103.jpg)
It took so long to get one hole I knew I was never going to get done in time. So I decided to do a single trench 24" wide. It left me just enough room for the footing. With only 2-4 inches of clearance in some spots, there was no way I was going to be able to apply surface bonding cement. So mortared block it is. I'm glad I waited to buy it.
Here is a good picture of the double wide and single wide sections.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture123.jpg)
I got a few pointers from friend who owns an excavation company. Start at one corner and work your way around three sides. I left a small piece on the third for enough room to run the treads over when doing the fourth.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture132.jpg)
Then vegetation gets scraped from center.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture134.jpg)
In the process the line got scraped off the fourth leg. Time for some batter boards.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture139.jpg)
I should have used 2x2s or 2x3 instead of 2x4. They are a lot easier to drive in and hold just fine. Also I needed to get longer batter boards. 4ft was not long enough in certain areas.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture146.jpg)
It took half a day to find square again. I found out it is hard to keep a straight trench. I had to go back a re do parts. You can see the new marked line and some orange along the right trench of area to be removed.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture149.jpg)
I then went back and got the last trench, then the small piece I from the third trench. Just in time for the end of the weekend 13.5 hours of run time on the machine.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture151.jpg)
Looks like a nice job. d*
Is this the first time you used a machine like that? If so, was it harder or easier than you expected?
Can't really tell from the pics but, since it's NY, I'm assuming that trench is 4' deep?
Yes this was my first time with an excavator. I have worked a few front end loaders, but not backhoe's, at least that I can remember. The ground was harder to get through than expected. The machine was pretty easy to work. They have the joystick like handles and it swings just like a digging arm. I found it is easier to chop away at the top and work your way down, as opposed to trying to scrape up a vertical side. When you hit a rock, it is easier for the machine if it is not pulling the 3-4 ft of compacted dirt with it. Also to break the shale, I pulled the bucket as far out as it would go, and pushed it down against the rock. This would give the full force of the machine and its weight to break the rocks. Some were so big, I had to dig around. You can see that in the third trench (the right 30' side). It was probably 3'x3'x2'. With delivery, diesel, hours, damage waiver, and cleaning it was around a $50 an hour learning experience. Well worth it. I did find that either it is very difficult to keep an exact depth or I lack the skill to do it with this machine. I will not be using an excavator for my septic. Because I only have to go down 13" through silty loam for my grey water leach field, I will be renting a trencher. Because I can put it on a trailer, it is a lot easier on the wallet too.
I went deep, way deep. Oops. My plan was actually to go a few extra inches over 48", around 54". Some areas are 60"-66". Again my inexperience. It is hard to shoot the grade too when the batter board strings would be in the way. I will have to fill it in and compact it. On the plus side it is very easy to fill it in. Just walk along the edges and tons of dirt just falls right in. As you can see, I piled it along the edges. I left the corners open with the expectation to try and shoot the concrete down them for the footing.
good job !
congrats squirl. Looks like great start :)
The dirt that came out of the hole is usually not the type that can be put back in and compacted to adequate bearing capacity, generally washed gravel is required.
Can you expand on that a little don. I was going to fill a little dirt in to get it level, tamp with a jumping jack, then put down around 6 inches of crushed #2. I had the feeling that a jumping jack could get the fill and whatever was loose still at the bottom compacted to the same as the soil it is on top of. Along with how crushed gravel can direct a load outward in a pyramid fashion, I thought this would have the bearing capacity for a single story stick frame. I would like to learn more about the soil compaction requirements.
Also if it the dirt is not level and I level it out with crushed stone, say 3" deep one spot and 6" deep another, do I have to worry about it?
Geotech is way outside my calling. Basically they want you to be on undisturbed soil, signs of filling and tamping have always been grounds for "call an engineer or remove it to virgin soil". Gravel with just a little settling will be better in bearing than the soil in most places, under a footing the depth difference is not a problem. You could also pour it all and just level the top... it's a time/labor/money equation. I'm pouring 6 yards for the footing for the entry stairs tomorrow (architects :D, but they will look cool), it got a couple of inches deep in one end but it's cheaper all things considered for me to just pour a little more.
Yeah, I saw that clause for footings in the code and it worried me a little. I could never get the ground that level. I worked on an excavation crew for a little while and never saw almost any foundation go in without some tamped crushed gravel underneath. I rarely see it on here either. I was not worried about the stone, because that is even considered a footing in and of itself under the code. I also called both the excavator that I am friends with and the building inspector and ran my plan by them. They both said it was fine. I did not get into specifics about the soil, I just said "level and tamp". The inspector is going to drop by this week and check the hole. I will check to see how much I have to come up. I have 12 yards of stone and I am only using around 1-2 yards in the greywater leach field. Even if I have to come up 12" on a 24" wide 100 ft long hole, it would be 7.5 yards of stone. Thanks for the insight.
Squirl, good for you for doing your own excavation. :)
I know I've done over 1000 residential excavations in resent years and I can tell you your not the only one that over digs their grade. I would agree with your friend and the inspector that leveling and tamping will most likely be fine. What you should do anytime your soil is in question or even anytime period is probe it. Any reputable excavator dose and is usually the first and only thing a geotech will do if asked to check your sub grade. Take a piece of 1/2 rod 3' or so long and weld a short piece to the top as a handle to form a tee shape.
check your grade by placing your body weight on the tee handle. The probe should not penetrate more then 1 or 2 inch's. If it penetrates lets say 6" a geotech would suggest compacting and then re-probe or take out the 6" of loose soil. Your not on bearing soil till you reach that point whether its 2" or 10'. Some soils will never pass a probe like clean sand but thats will be obvious. I've mentioned the importance of probing your soil in other threads and I'm sure I will again. My opinion is if it doesn't pass don't build on it.
Here's what the probing looks like. This is the soils engineer checking in footing area where there was suspected old fill. After his investigation, he recommended we run wacker over area...came out hard as rock.
(https://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee389/u9138/SoilsEngr.jpg)
Because we uncovered an old burn pit in footing and slab areas, removed considerable quantity of contaiminated soil. Used 3/4 inch crushed rock to backfill...much easier to meet necessary compaction. I have used rock backfill on a number of projects with excellent results.
(https://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee389/u9138/GravelBackfill.jpg)
Where exactly are u building in certral NY. I am origionally from Onondaga County?
I remember once asking my engineer how long it takes for fill to settle to the point that you can call it "undisturbed".
He said you only have to wait until you run a glacier run over it. That'll tamp it down pretty good!
"It took half a day to find square again."
yikes! you are a patient man!
what do you do for your day job? You mentioned they wouldn't rent a big excavator to a non-contractor.
Typing from a phone at the site. Thanks for the tips everyone. I got here Friday after a week of rain.
Clay + water= pond
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/060.jpg)
water + filled clay = MUD
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/070.jpg)
I spent most of saturday scraping it down to virgin soil. It was easy to find, it was where the mud ended.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/072.jpg)
Filled with a 3-6 inch gravel base to get it level.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/087.jpg)
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/108.jpg)
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/105.jpg)
Tamped with a jumping jack.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/113.jpg)
It's been raining for two days while I built the forms and it is holding firm. Pictures to follow next week. It is in Otsego county.
Edited with pictures.
Footings are in. More pictures later.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/147.jpg)
You're not wasting much time. I can't remember, did you decide to do block or poured?
Alan
Ahhhhh getting footers in the excitement level is really going up now. Actually getting something permanent in the ground helped my anxiety level and it has gone fairly fast since then. Good luck!!
Your making great progress!! [cool]
So in the rain I scrambled to cut the rebar and install the forms before the building inspector arrived. I expected to be done by that day, but I had to spend a day shoveling out all the mud from the fill dirt I put it the hole. I don't have many pictures because I was really scrambling.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/127.jpg)
It was good enough to pass inspection, but the inspector said, if it blows out it is my problem and that I should brace it more.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/130.jpg)
6 pallets of blocks and 65 bags of mortar showed up too.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/131.jpg)
The next day I was going to level the forms and pour concrete, when I woke up to this.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/136.jpg)
It was like building sand castles in the surf. I called and canceled the concrete. By midday the hole was empty again with a bilge pump. The deeper areas of rock tamped down an extra inch lower than the other side so the forms had to raised and braced. I ordered 3 yards of concrete to make up for the low spots and spillage.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/141.jpg)
I called back and they said they probably would be able to pour the next day and it was supposed to rain the day after that. So I asked if I could still get it that day. They said at 2:30. It was 12:30. The fact that the mix was almost solid with no slump, they didn't charge me for the "empty" concrete fee and that the time was required to be 2:30 and not 3:00, I surmise it was left over concrete from another job. Oh well it got done. That is not an optical allusion. The forms bowed in certain areas and ended up being 16" wide in some spots. I used almost all 3 yards according to the driver. He was able to put the shoot in the center of each wall and reverse as he poured. He only missed the forms a few times. It sure tore up the site.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/151.jpg)
After spending hours setting up the batter boards AGAIN, to find the exact corners to set the blocks to stay square. I fell off the ladder when using the plumb bob. I landed with my spine on a large rock/clay ball that came off the side wall during the pour. I can barely move and can't lay block the two non raining days of the week.
Thanks for all the positive comments. It is square within 1/2 inch. I was told that was pretty good for a footing.
I originally had decided on a concrete wall, but when no one would rent forms in the area and because my crawl space had almost no unbalanced fill, a dry stack wall was a faster and less expensive option. After the excavator barely got through the rock and clay, I could only get one trench wide within the weekend I had it rented for. I would have needed at least 48" to get enough room to stack the block and surface bond cement both sides of the wall. That would have required and extra weekend of work and another $600. So now it is going to be mortared block.
Duncan, I am an white collar office worker. It was immediately apparent to the people when I called to rent the excavator. "You don't do this for a living do you?" Was usually one of the first questions they asked. It must have been pretty obvious.
NYsono, yeah the concrete pour was the most anxiety of the build. Everything else can be easily fixed with some time and money. Everything had to be just right for the footing or everything for the house would be off. I just have to get the wall mortared before the freezing temps now. Not as stressfull.
[quo
NYsono, yeah the concrete pour was the most anxiety of the build. Everything else can be easily fixed with some time and money. Everything had to be just right for the footing or everything for the house would be off. I just have to get the wall mortared before the freezing temps now. Not as stressfull.
[/quote]
Are you planning on leaving blocks uncovered over the winter or building up this year? If so be very careful....I was sternly cautioned against this last year (thought Id get a jump on this year if I git that done last fall)
Hope your back recovers quick....I know they can be debilitating from first hand experience.
Steve
Sorry to hear of your fall, Squirl :( Hopefully its just some bruises. Part of my back problems are from all the falls I took when we were 1st building our underground cabin. Wasn't used to the fine clay w/lots of rocks that would slide right out from under your foot & send you flying down the hillside or doing the splits, landed on my tailbone several times. Now I watch the ground all the time.
Making good progress in spite of the weather not cooperating.
Rather than stare at a project I couldn't work on or push myself into a serious injury. I went home. This is how I left it:
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/IMG_0281.jpg)
NYSono. I plan on getting all the block work and back filling done before the frost. What were you warned of?
Good luck with the block and don't rush that first course. I only had 2 courses of 6" to run on mine but I hired it out to a block layer. He's a meticulous guy and he and a helper spent about a day and a half squaring and setting that first course of block (about 100 blocks). After they got the 1st one perfect the second course almost went up by itself.
Alan
Quote from: Squirl on August 20, 2011, 10:28:00 PM
Rather than stare at a project I couldn't work on or push myself into a serious injury. I went home. This is how I left it:
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/IMG_0281.jpg)
NYSono. I plan on getting all the block work and back filling done before the frost. What were you warned of?
If you are going to be capped I think you are ok. Biggest thing is water getting into blocks and freezing. If you are backfilling Im assuming you will be capped and all blocks sealed to grade, then not a problem.
Yeah, I have another month and a half of weekends before frost sets in. It will be covered by a tarp after that.
Congrats on breaking ground Squirl! I'm looking forward to following your progress. Hope you can get back to work soon!
Excellent start. Make sure to celebrate when you get out of the ground. The transition to wood was a happy time for me....
8 Hours of work.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture002.jpg)
I got 30 ft of one course. After it was done, I realized there was a 2.5" high spot in the center. The west wall only took 3 hours. I have to do the other two walls and find out if there are any other high spots. Then I got a little rain.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture005.jpg)
This was in the morning. It rained the rest of the day. I will need the pump next time.
Damn Rain... >:(
I was thinking about you when I was watching the rain come down last night. I have dug out so much in our build I can feel your pain.
You might want to think about a transit or someway to check level before laying the whole course? So is it still 2.5"s out or did you readjust and put extra mud on both sides?
I've got to get out of this hole. This is shaping up to be one of the wettest months on record. I think we are up to almost 9" (edit 15") of rain.
I used a water level to set and level each corner. I then ran a string and ran the first course. I had a grade laser when I was doing the footing. It told me I was around 1-1.5" off on the concrete pour. I didn't realize I was also off maybe an inch left to right. So when I laid the first course there was a section that was up to 2.5 inches high(progressive over 10 ft). It is the one section where I poured against the wall and didn't use a form. I didn't get a good screed. The west wall was pretty level, within .5 inches. I'm going to check to see if I have any other high spots. I figured I have 3 options, probably in this order.
1. Try and make up the difference with mortar. I have 8 more courses to go with it. Also, most of this is going to be hidden by balanced backfill. I think I ordered to much mortar anyway.
2. Cut the block. This may be an option if the rest of the other two walls don't have any high spots. I would probably have to cut around 8 blocks so far.
3. Pour a 4" concrete ledger over the block.
There is definitely a learning curve to laying block. But the only way I learn anything...
8 blocks to cut doesnt sound to bad. Although if you don't have a diamond blade they are not cheap. You can borrow mine if you want.
Nice work! I just read through this thread and you are doing a fine job! :D
So there was a little water to deal with. It was 2.5 ft deep. I pumped for 10 hours. I estimate it was around 8000 gallons.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture188.jpg)
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture193.jpg)
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture191.jpg)
I had to clean off the mud as the water level dropped so there was a good surface to mortar too.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture212.jpg)
I did the first layers of the east and north wall. I noticed the north wall has a high spot too. Not as bad though. It was from a boulder that I concreted over. I knew this might be a small problem at the time. It is easier to deal with in mortar than with fill or concrete.
Here is the second layer of the north wall. You can see how I keep even mortared joints. I run a tape measure and measure each block as I go.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture220.jpg)
I was able to get the four corners leveled by the second layer. I used thick mortar (3/4 inch) on the east and west and very thin (1/8 inch) on the high spots.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture216.jpg)
I also noticed a problem I had done with the first layer. I strung a line between two freshly mortared blocks. I couldn't get the tension to keep a level mason line. I need to set at least two blocks or mortar the corner blocks ahead of time before running a line. At the second layer the north wall had a ¾ inches high spot and the south wall had 1.25 inches. I will correct this with mortar over the next 7 layers.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture221.jpg)
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture231.jpg)
So I went this weekend. I was expecting a little water. A little storm called Lee rolled through. When I had left late Monday the hole was empty. Friday I showed up for a little surprise.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture233.jpg)
16 inches of rain. I had a bucket I left empty in the middle of the field. It was overflowing when I got back. I literally got buckets of rain. That is a 4.5 foot deep hole and 2.5-3 ft wide at the bottom of the hole and 4-6 ft wide near the top. My estimate it was 12,000-15,000 gallons of water. I pumped for 28 hours straight. At least the day wasn't a complete waste. I piled blocks around the edges.
I could only get one row and four corner blocks set before I had to leave.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture239.jpg)
I've got to get the [expletive] out of this hole. These hurricanes are starting to get to me.
Well, on the bright side, I bet you can make one awesome pond when you are done with the house! ;)
Man, and I thought I had rain problems trying to get my foundation in this spring. Gotta be pretty disheartening.
Don't worry, the mud will be gone soon when it freezes. d*
Alan
Oh My!! That has to be depressing for you :( . And we complained that we had to dip a couple inches of water out of our pier holes, I can't even imagine what you are going through. :(
Hope you get a bit of a break, Squirl, so you can get the block walls done... doesn't look like much fun :( Is your ground clay? It looks the same color as ours.
Yeah, I've probably got another 4 weekends before the freezing weather gets here. If I can get a course a weekend, that gets me above grade. Hopefully the inspector will let me fill it in before the rest of the wall is finished. The tarp should be able to keep the water from getting in the blocks from there.
The neighbor stopped by and said "Are you installing a pool?"
Sassy, it is a red clay/shale mixture. It stains everything. It doesn't drain almost at all. I will upload a picture tonight of the north west corner. The edge of the dirt mound was cut in half by the overflow.
This is indicative of why a PWF would not have worked. The footing is lower than anything on the property including the culvert at the road. There would just be no place for the water to go. If I could have done a PWF, I would have been building the floor by now.
I guess there is always an upside. The house is going to be dependent on rainwater catchment. In every storm I measured, the site got double to triple the rain totals recorded by the weather service. I should have no shortage of water.
We were thinking about you this weekend! Fingers crossed for a late start to winter this year - we could sure use the extra time as well!
Squirl, so sorry to see all the trouble you are having. Have you tried wishing for rain? That usually works for me, when I wish for a sunny weekend it usually rains, so maybe it works the other way too, hang in there!!
Quote from: drainl on September 12, 2011, 10:46:59 AM
We were thinking about you this weekend! Fingers crossed for a late start to winter this year - we could sure use the extra time as well!
Thanks. I hope everything worked out for you. Your place seems pretty weather tight, and hopefully the weather just runs down the mountain for you. A neighbor stopped by and told be the bulbs are doing something? Sprouting? She said that was an indication of an early winter. Whatever that means?
I actually do wish for light rains. They are nice to do block work in. They keep you cool. They keep the flies and gnats off of you. It doesn't fill up your hole and it doesn't ruin your block work. I guess I have to watch what I wish for.
hey squirl,
i admire that fact that you are doing your own foundation.. i had mine poured down here in northeast pa.. sorry that you picked such a wet time to work below grade! how did you manage this past weekend? we are in the wilke barre area, and we had to evacuate.. lucky for us, the house that we are building is up in the poconos, and was left untouched by the flood.. and, fortunately, we live in an area protected by dikes which held beyond their design limit.. so we are still dry, but there is a lot of devastation within blocks of where we live.. the weather is looking a lot brighter now.. i hope that you can make up some time! jt
I drove through your area before the river crested. It sounded like a lot of panic from the people on the radio.
The two posts in a row (Sept 6th and 11th) are actually from the two different hurricanes. I am heading up tonight to hopefully finally get some work done.
wow, that's tough, sorry to see that. I thought I had water problems with the mud on top of my vapor barrier in my basement!
Squirl - you da man! Thank you thank you for a great idea! The bilge pump!
We had our crawlspace blocked may/june and its been very rainly season. Then we started in july building but the block guys pumped out the water in the crawl before we started , well by the time we got the sub floor on it had about 2 in of water above the rocks in the crawl. So we went to harbor feight for a small electric water pump that sucks water. Couldnt ever get the dam thing to work. we have to keep trying to prime it etc. so we gave up and was going to pay our exavator to come out when he finished pushing the dirt back against the cabin. Well i wanted to get the plumber going at some point. so i ran accross your build thread earlier this week. So i checked walmat for that tsunami bilger pump and neir of our carries it. So ifor about $30 i orderd it from amazon.com and got it in the mail. Boy i was a little skeptical when i first saw it. the 1200 GPH yeah right. I was expecting something the size of a coffee maker, when it actually is the size of a small coffe cup. OMG... This thing is awesome! its pump water like no ones business! WOW
We set it up and went on our way and in a few hours the crawl was drained, no more standing water. Then i went back with a hoe and drained out various pits that was still left. Very good and highly recommended bilge pumps!!! ;D
I'm glad it worked for you beckhamk. I went with it for a few reasons. I was familiar with it from boating. It was 12v so I didn't have to get out the generator to run it. It requires very little power (60 watts). The last two reasons were very important two weekends ago. I could leave the pump running attached to one deep cycle battery and leave to do other things for hours and it wouldn't kill the battery. It still pumped away like crazy, but not as much as when it was attached to the Jeep.
Ok, very little pumping had to get done this weekend. Also the block was above were the water was, so it didn't slow me down. My father insisted on helping. I mortared most of the blocks while he fed me blocks and mortar. I got three rows done, the water line is installed, and the corner blocks for the 6th row are in place. I'm also set up for the next row.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/d6891583.jpg)
I took some measurements when I hit the 6th row. I am still ¾ of an inch high for around 8 ft of the south wall. It is the first row that is above the center crawl space. The walls were still exactly 20 ft and 30 ft. The square measurements were 36 ft in one direction and 36'-1.5" the other. So it is off square by ¾ of an inch. I will try and adjust the block 1/8th an inch over per row for the next four rows. If I can get it within 1/8 to ¼ of an inch of square for the top row of block I will be happy.
LOOKING REALLY GOOD, YOURE DEALING WITH TOO MUCH WATER. WE IN SE TEXAS ARE IN A 100 YR DROUGHT :-\
IVE HAD ABOUT 20% OF THE TREES ON THE PROPERTY DIE THIS YR AND WHO KNOWS WHAT WON'T MAKE IT PAST LEAFOUT IN THE SPRING...
Looking good. You'll be framing before you know it. d*
A few lessons learned so far from doing the block.
1. Clearing the mortar out of the joint with a tool or finger is to hide imperfection in the block or block work. It is harder for an eye to notice any edge of a block is not perfectly aligned with the block next to it with mortar missing in a concave joint. I noticed this by taking a really close look a professionally done block walls, and comparing my wall to theirs. They had the same mistakes and imperfections, just your eye could not readily see them from a distance.
2. Blocks are imperfect. They can easily vary from 1/16 to 1/8 inch to any edge. Most are strong, but every so often you will get one that will just shatter.
3. There is a top and bottom to the block. The top is the wider end for a nice thick area to mortar too.
4. Mortar calculators lie out of their a**. They told me to estimate 10 blocks for each bag of mortar. I have been going with extra thick 3/4 joints to get even close to that. I am 2/3 of the way done with my wall and I'm not even 1/3 of the way through my mortar.
5. Another thing that seems like a waste of mortar is mortaring the center between blocks. Because of how center and corner blocks are designed the center of the block never lines up over anything on the block below. I didn't even see it in the Sakrete instructional video. Only do this for the first row.
6. A hand mixer (drill and 2" paddle) is fine for an amateur. I/3-1/2 of a 5 gallon bucket is all I can get through before the mortar starts to set. It is also easy to lug around. A full bucket breaks the handle. I add the mortar to the water mixing a little as I add. It gets the best mix. Quikrete also states you should add the mortar to the water.
7. A tape measure and a rock are an excellent way to cheat and keep your joints even as you go. This is great for an amateur. This will destroy a retractable tape measure. I'm not sure if this is from the dust and dirt or the spring being pulled out for hours at a time. Be prepared to throw it out when you are done. A 25 ft measure will work great for a 30 ft wall.
8. Don't use expensive small tools around the wall. They will end up falling down the holes. At this point I have a line block and tape measure that will be Hoffa'ed into the wall. If the wall was a little taller, I would be adding a torpedo level and another tape measure to that list. I still might.
9. Buy extra line blocks. They are cheap. $2.50. Changing the string back and forth between the 20 and 30 ft walls is a PITA.
10. Buy lots of string. From the batter boards to the line blocks, I went through a lot.
11. Set your corners either the night before or at least two blocks in a row. A line block strung tight enough for no sag, will pull a corner block off its' base even after a few hours.
12. A 20 x 30 is a perfect block foundation size. There are 22 blocks on the two 30 ft sides. By alternating the 20 ft sides by 14 and 15 blocks every other course you will have a perfect running block wall with no cut blocks.
13. I prefer the cheap cloth gloves with the plastic palms. They keep your hands dry with the wet mortar, and are not deteriorated by the caustic nature of Portland cement. I had both expesive and cheap leather gloves fall apart equally as fast. I also found that I can use my fingers to joint the blocks with the plastic gloves.
If I remember any others, I will share.
Squirl,
Just finished a crawl space, bought a house that was moved to our land in two pieces.
I used a couple mortar tubs from Home Depot, they worked good you can skid them around easily.
Also a friend gave me a couple line holders that are metal and slide on top of the blocks, they are well worth it check at a concrete place, they don't put near the strain on the block and you can set them inside or outside so you don't have to lift block over the line. Also get a thing called a sled, a long striking tool for the joints, it hides a LOT of sin lol.
Good luck
Alan
w* bikeralan
One other thing about striking joints is that you should wait till they are thumbprint hard and then strike them with a tool, this compacts and strengthtens the surface of the joint helping it to wear better over time.
w* Alan
Thank you for the insight. I saw those metal clamps in videos and books and had no idea where to find them or how they worked. I have a mortar tub too. The 80lb bags are heavy and too unwieldy for me. I like to empty half into the tub and work with it from there.
I called the building inspector and got the go ahead to balance backfill to grade.
I'm looking into using all of the extra mortar as a stucco scratch coat over the above grade block. Sakrete's mix is specifically advertised for both. I have a local brand and am not sure of its versatility.
Also I changed the venting design to four missing blocks. One would be near each corner within the top row of blocks on the east and west walls. The wind blows from west to east over my ridge. Does anyone know if they make vents the size of a concrete block?
I don't know much about crawl spaces but I've run across these before and figured I'd pass them along in case you missed them, which you probably haven't.
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-009-new-light-in-crawlspaces
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0401-conditioned-crawl-space-construction-performance-and-codes
Alan
Squir, I wonder if what I installed in my crawlspace would work for you. Mine are 6"x18" and should fit right in. They have louvers inside screening and they operate on a bimetal spring. Here's the link.
http://www.airvent.com/homeowner/products/foundation-auto.shtml (http://www.airvent.com/homeowner/products/foundation-auto.shtml)
hey squirl - nice lessons learned. very insightful, and even a little funny! ;)
Those are interesting articles Alan. The first address a foam vapor barrier on the bottom of the floor joists, but not plastic.
I don't have a lot of choice. I discussed these with the inspector when I called about changing the venting arrangements. He was familiar with all the different schools of thought. He said no for my place. Something about the soil drainage, it won't work.
I can't imagine your face when you turned up at the site to see that pool of water
well done for persevering !
There are 8x16" vents that fit in a block space. Use a jamb bloack, the ones with a smooth end and a vertical groove, on each side of the gap. Fill the block below solid.
I tried filling in the backfill this weekend. I started by hand with a pickaxe and shovel on the clay mounds. I got about 3 hours in and tired out. As an office worker, I am not used to a full day of manual labor. I took a break and tried working on getting my tractor to start to use the front end loader. I spent most of the rest of the day tooling around with it. I spent four hours the next day hand filling dirt in and the rest of the time tinkering with the tractor. I couldn't get it to start. I only got half one 20 ft wall done in 6 hours of shoveling by hand. Rather than spend my time taking a risk on getting the tractor started, I think I may look at renting a unit.
For those interested in the tractor story. It ran great when I bought it. It would start right up from a cold start in November. Pretty good for an 8n. That tells me that it is probably not a compression problem. It was giving me a little trouble starting after the winter. The person who 12V converted it, didn't screw in the key holder very well. As I turned the key it shifted the whole switch and shorted out on the body. It melted all of the wires around it. I rewired it and I now have 12v to the coil. I replaced the plugs, but am getting spark only some of the time. I think the short damaged the electrical system and I'm probably going to have to replace it all. Luckily it is an 8n. Simple and plentiful parts. The problem is it has a front end loader, which these tractors were not designed for. I may have to disassemble half of the tractor to redo the electric.
Squrl how did you make out with the venting? Did you check out those vents?
Glad you got the tractor sorted out too. I've loved those old Ford tractors since I was a kid. I almost bought an 8N this summer. A guy less than a mile from me had one in his yard for sale. It had a tiny little bucket on it. The loaders don't work well?
When I returned the pallets from the block this weekend, they had the automatic vents you had posted. I picked up four. They were $15.
The loader works great when the tractor is running. But if you need to work on anything, even refueling, it is a pain, because the aftermarket loader supports block everything.
I was able to access the starter switch, coil resistor, coil and distributor cap this weekend. I may have to disassemble the tractor if I have to do the points.
squirl
Do you see any reason those vents could not be installed vertically? I also bought 4 but they are too wide for a 16" on center PT wall?
I don't see why not. Venting is pretty broad in all the definitions I read. There are about a dozen variations in the code of "or" not "and". The important thing is to get it near the corners of the building for some cross flow. There is no requirement for height or automatic closing of the vents. A hole covered in hardware cloth is considered acceptable. A lot of the cheaper $5 vents seemed to be pretty close to that. Also it seems like it would be easy enough to fix. That part of the foundation is above grade by so many inches. You could easily block and patch it if it doesn't work out.
I rented a walk behind loader. It worked pretty well.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/004.27635023_std.JPG)
I filled the outside.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/024.27642719_std.JPG)
Then leveled and filled the inside.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/030.27642827_std.JPG)
All leveled and filled.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/036.27643120_std.JPG)
Looks good.
How many more rows higher are you going to go with the block?
Maybe it's not as bad as it looks but I cringe every time I see that ground you have to work with. It looks like it would be impossible to keep anything clean. I suppose when it's not soaking wet it's hard as a rock.
I know from my experience this spring that after the hassle of the foundation it feels really good to start working with wood and getting walls up. Good luck.
Alan
Four more rows before the floor. I have the corner blocks set for the fourth row except the northwest corner, which is the corner at the front in the last picture. As you can see it is freshly mortared block. I tried balancing the fill as I went. A little on one side, a little on the other. Well without the fill filled up to the top on the outside, as I brought the machine to the edge to fill the inside, the ledge gave way. The machine came crashing down into the block and I cracked off the corner blocks. I checked the figures and even with the heaviest soil, the wall could handle 4 ft of unbalanced fill without rebar. The wall is 3'-4". So I filled the outside then the inside. The areas the machine could reach from the outside edge such as the north, south, and west walls I filled in from the outside. Areas that it could not reach, I used the inside fill to fill them. I was originally shooting for 12" of unbalanced fill, but ended up with 8"-12" depending upon the spot. This will give me a crawlspace of 2'-8", instead of 3'. With the addition of the centerbeam the center will be at 2ft clearance.
Quote from: Alan Gage on October 04, 2011, 09:10:42 AM
Maybe it's not as bad as it looks but I cringe every time I see that ground you have to work with. It looks like it would be impossible to keep anything clean. I suppose when it's not soaking wet it's hard as a rock.
I know from my experience this spring that after the hassle of the foundation it feels really good to start working with wood and getting walls up. Good luck.
Alan
So do I. I've completely ruined the interior of my Jeep. The mud is mostly a fine red clay that stains everything and does not come out of plastic. I'm usually covered in mud the entire weekend. It rained part of the time and rained most of last week and will rain the beginning of this week. The mud in the center turned into a slurry that I could pushed around like too wet mortar. When the sun came out Sunday and dried it, I would need point to move it. Two neighbors came by and commented on my determination (stubbornness). They said they would have given up a while ago. It has been the wettest year ever recorded. One neighbor is in his 70's and lived across the street most of his life. He never remembered it being this bad. The whole field has turned into a swamp.
Sucks to work in but makes a sweet mud bog!! Can i bring my jeep?
I found washing detergent and a good scrub brush good for getting ground in dirt out of car interiors and plastics
don't ask me how I know >:(
Only popped out for a 3hr mud plug on sunday morning with some colombian friends - we eventually got back to terra firma Monday night at 6.00pm
(https://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/POshaughnessy/Colombia%20offroad/bogotaOFFRoad320.jpg)
0530hrs after sleeping in the trucks overnight with no food water or sleeping bags " we'll be back in the pub by 4"
(https://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/POshaughnessy/Colombia%20offroad/bogotaOFFRoad359.jpg)
So I went for a final push before the snow sets in. The first night temperatures dipped below freezing so I had to do some cold weather mortar work.
First I heated the water to just under 100 degrees. Luke warm. Just enough to comfortably put my hand in.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/s/IMG_0486.JPG)
Then I would add some calcium hydroxide. This was only for mortaring the blocks because there was no steel. Otherwise the calcium hydroxide would be out.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/s/IMG_0485.JPG)
Sill bolts have to be 1/2" bolts, 7" deep, 6 ft O/C or less.
http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_4_sec003_par010.htm
I filled the lower block with paper. The empty mortar bags work great.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/s/IMG_0499.JPG)
I then filled them with mortar.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/s/IMG_0500.JPG)
I then measured 7" on a 10" J bolt.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/s/IMG_0501.JPG)
I then set the bolt in the mortar to the line.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/s/IMG_0502.JPG)
Finished laying block. Now to build the crawlspace access and the center beam.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/s/IMG_0505.JPG)
I forgot one picture.
This was my approach to how to put a center girder.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/s/IMG_0493.JPG)
I used a 4x8x16 block on the outside. The blocks underneath are hollow for now. I will fill them with mortar and put a J bolt on each side. I will put a 2x4 sill plate. The J bolt will connect to an anchor which will connect to the girder. I went with 2x8s because they are the exact size of a concrete block.
very nice! a great milestone in the project, esp. considering all the moisture you had to deal with!
Yea, congrats for persevering thru the mud. I was reading thru it at an accelerated pace, so one storm appeared to roll in seconds after the last. I may have been laughing with sympathy... "Oh man, not again! How much can this poor guy take?!" d* But it all worked out. Good job on planning the masonry work.
One thing I didn't notice was any sort of foundation drain to anywhere. I saw a gravel layer, but that was it. Did you put in a dry well or something to take away the water or do you have some other plan?
So far my only plan is to grade the dirt so that water drains away from the foundation. If I have to I will install some type of sump system. My problem is the property is mostly flat with no more that 24" grade. With the bottom of the foundation at 60" there is no place for it to drain to. A drywell is just as much of a problem. If the soil around the foundation doesn't drain, the drywell doesn't either.
So I owed the county highway department a culvert pipe. They installed one the last time I was here, and I had to buy a replacement so I got a weekend to go up.
The weather was nice for one day, so I got the holes drilled and the boards cut for a sill plate. I went with 2x8s. Next time I go back, I will remove them and install the sill insulation, which hasn't come in the mail yet.
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/86eb9594.jpg)
I bet your going to be glad to up and out of those trenches !
watching the rain from the bedroom now :) i just think of water wheel i can turn with all the water we get :)
Quote from: speedfunk on December 07, 2011, 05:40:26 PM
watching the rain from the bedroom now :) i just think of water wheel i can turn with all the water we get :)
I will smile about it when I get my cistern set up. Until then it can stop.
I still have to do the center beam. The tarp in the center was full of water and ice. I was hoping to get the floor on before the ice and snow. It is what it is.
Hey Squirl - have you started back up on your house yet this spring?
No. Even this past weekend night time temps were below freezing. My next step is to pour the concrete for the center beam posts. I have something planned this weekend, but I have next weekend scheduled. Thank you for asking.
So I got back to work last month.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0516.137203727.JPG)
Next I needed to add a sill plate to the pocket where the center beam that runs don the center of the house will sit in. I filled the holes with mortar and sunk the piece of pressure treated 2x material that I cut out of the sill plate above it. I used a cut piece of 2x8 to level it with the sides so that the center beam will be level with the tops of the sill plates around the outside concrete walls.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0522.137203657.JPG)
I measured where the outside of the center beam should be and ran a string to keep a center line
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0519.137203629.JPG)
I spaced five 16" x 16" square posts 5 feet on center down the 30 foot center of the building. I should have been more accurate at this step. I was off up to 2 inches in a few. It won't affect it structurally, it just looks funny.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0525.137203527.JPG)
I tamped gravel under the form. Filled with a little concrete. Added 12" #4 rebar and filled with more concrete.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0584.137211000.JPG)
I then mortared and leveled some 8"x8" blocks in. The 6x6 post on the wall I used to help line up the blocks with the string.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0585.137210828.JPG)
As you can see here I had to trim the post slightly to fit the bracket. I had to use an 8" J bolt because there was no sill plate over the bracket. In the background is the block that was farthest off center from the footing. You can see the 2" on one side and 6" on the other. Not pretty, but it still evenly distributes over a 12x12 base, which is more than enough by my load calculations. The 16x16 was only for added safety margins.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0589.137210048.JPG)
All posts in place waiting to be trimmed. What you don't see is after I mortared them in place is I had to unbolt the posts from the bracket. Tighten the bracket bolt to the blocks, then rebolt and naile each post back in the bracket. Also all the blocks are filled! That was a full day of work, but I am glad I did it.
QuoteAlso all the blocks are filled!
I'll bet that feels good! :)
Seems weird seeing your build site with dry ground ;D. Looks like you're making good progress.
Yes. Feels pretty good. I've started slowing down a bit and enjoying the process.
A little water collects, but nothing like the hurricanes. I still have a little bit of grading to do to drain the water away from the house.
I built little concrete blocks and mortared in the girder for the crawlspace.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0609.150105717.JPG)
I built up the center beam out of 3-2x8s and 1-1x8 because they were the excact size of a row of blocks.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0598.150110108.JPG)
I put the sill seal on and bolted down the sill plates. The foundation is done.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0610.150114503.JPG)
Looking good! Especially minus all the mud. ;D
Nice to see another New Yorker back to work.
Nice progress Squirl. You've got a nice spot there with a view of those rolling hills I see. I pass Otsego each time I'm headed up to my own camp just north of Herkimer. Takes me 4 hrs from Long Island on average, and by the time I'm passing the Cooperstown turnoff, I'm thinking, the lucky devils living here would be home already! The only solution I see is moving closer to the cabin ;D Keep the progress photos coming..
Doc
Thank you all for the support.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0615.150122043.JPG)
I cut all the boards to fit the outside rim joists. I nailed the rim joist to the joists at the corners.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0617.15155716.JPG)
I made micro corrections in the placement of the boards to get it square. I then toe nailed the rim joists all into place.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0618.150122301.JPG)
I measured every 24 inches off the north side and 24 inches off of the sistered joist on the south side.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0622.150122352.JPG)
I then marked every 24 inches down the center beam. I only had to do this for the north side, because the south side joists would be sistered against these. This is a better picture of the center beam too.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0627.150200129.JPG)
North side done.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0643.150200921.JPG)
I spaced the south side sill bolts the same as the north forgetting that the joists were offset 1.5 inches. It doesn't violate any code schedules, but an amateur mistake.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0645.151102655.JPG)
Fire blocking installation.
Holy crow Squirl I just read the thread here at work and it is very inspirational to see you come through all that. Now you can see the fruits of your labour show. I can't wait until I get back to my build next weekend hopefully, might even get the walls up, who knows.
Ran the water line.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0654.17274618.JPG)
Subfloor glue
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0664.17284632.JPG)
1/8th inch gap and 2" nail spacing of 2.5" galvanized full head nails.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0665.17285758.JPG)
Blocking on the cut short edge. Due to imperfect tongue and groove placement all but 10ft overlapped the rim joist by 1/4 inch. I blocked the rest.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0674.17295841.JPG)
Finished subfloor.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0676.172101147.JPG)
Awesome - congrats on the floor!
Any updates?
Always nice to see what else is going on in NYS.
Looking good. I see that last post was a month ago. You may have walls up by now. The people are waiting and need to be fed! ;D Putting up that subfloor is a double-edged sword- it's so flat and clean and nice and you can envision how your project will come together. But it also feels amazingly vulnerable to have all that work sitting out in the elements. You sure don't look at rain the same.
Quote from: AdironDoc on May 31, 2012, 06:34:18 AM
Nice progress Squirl. You've got a nice spot there with a view of those rolling hills I see. I pass Otsego each time I'm headed up to my own camp just north of Herkimer. Takes me 4 hrs from Long Island on average, and by the time I'm passing the Cooperstown turnoff, I'm thinking, the lucky devils living here would be home already! The only solution I see is moving closer to the cabin ;D Keep the progress photos coming..
Doc
That's what I did Doc. I bought my land in Fulton County in 2006 when I still lived in Florida. At the beginning of last year I moved myself, my daughter and my job to Syracuse to be closer to my property. It's been the happiest decision of my LIFE!
My place is just about 25 miles north of Cooperstown. You must be very close by!
Some updates. This is the first wall.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0698.20770904.JPG)
I started by stringing a chalk line down the building to keep a strait line with the bottom plate. I put two toe nails for each into a joist.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0702.20770541.JPG)
I then lined up all the studs crown side out.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0706.206105227.JPG)
I nailed one nail per stud at just the studs at the joints. I went with a 12' – 12'- 6'board on the top plate and a 6'-12'-12' board on the bottom plate so that the joints didn't fall in the same locations.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0707.20765542.JPG)
I then measured corner to corner to square the walls. I braced them from the top plate to the studs with scrap 2x4's. Then nailed the rest of the studs in place. 6 end nails per stud.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0709.206105307.JPG)
I did the let in header for energy efficiency.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0722.20765812.JPG)
Blocking
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0725.20771124.JPG)
Sheathing
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0730.20765949.JPG)
Tilt up.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0735.20770038.JPG)
The wall was heavy (2x10s). Be sure to do this over a joist.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0737.20770138.JPG)
I had to hit the bottom into place with a sledge hammer. After the wall was braced of course.
Looking good. d*
Did you do anything to prevent the possibility of the wall going all the way over (chains, ropes etc.). I'm assuming that you are working alone.
No ;D.
I will next time.
I should have. I did have an observer/helper there (father). There was a lot of cursing from him with the final tilt up (parents). I had some 2x3 ready and nailed them as braces immediately. The 2x10s make a good foot for the wall to sit on, but it didn't help that a small storm was pushing through. In hindsight I did not like using a single jack on a 30 ft long wall with that much weight. There was a lot of flex in the wall. I probably would buy two wall jacks if I had to do it over again. The short sides are only 18.5 ft, so they shouldn't be so much trouble.
I accidentally left two toenails in the bottom plate during the tilt up. I believe it helped to keed the bottom from sliding out.
wow. 2x12 joists on under ten foot span and 2x10 walls. that thing isnt going anywhere is it?
your walls are bigger then my floor joists. did you use two foot centers on the floor and walls?
Yes, I used 2 ft centers. I did it for less stud heat loss. Even still the floor is rated at over 100 lbs per square foot.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0748.208110421.JPG)
North wall (one from previous post) braced.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0741.208105957.JPG)
South wall first section. Because I had an extra set of hands I nailed the bottom plate to the floor and did the walls from there. I still had to bend the wall slightly and nail crosses braces to keep it square.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0747.208110157.JPG)
South wall with blocking and bracing before sheathing.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0751.208110713.JPG)
First Row of Sheathing.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0755.208111130.JPG)
North and South walls done.
Very nice progress!
cant wait to see more
Looks great. Very interesting see such wide walls and that Jeep jack. I just picked up a wall jack but figuring out how to use it on a slab is going to be tough.
Austin
any new pics squirl? I know you have been up this way ;D :D
Sorry, I've been so busy checking out other projects, I haven't posted pictures of my own. ;D
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0762.24790721.JPG)
The west wall.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0764.24792408.JPG)
Blocked. I didn't get a picture of it sheathed.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0772.24791039.JPG)
The east walls were about an inch off of being square. I used a ratcheting tie down to bring them square.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0774.24791214.JPG)
The east wall missing two studs.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0779.24792624.JPG)
The east wall almost sheathed.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0805.24792814.JPG)
The east wall finished.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0813.24792912.JPG)
Inside of east wall.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0819.24795323.JPG)
Inside of west wall.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0822.24795412.JPG)
2x8x20s; Harbor Freight Folding Trailer; Jeep Wrangler ???
It can be done.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0817.247100041.JPG)
Ceiling Joists/ Rafter Ties in place.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0826.247100231.JPG)
Temporary decking to hang ridge board and nail rafters.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0829.247100515.JPG)
Looking good!
Quote from: Squirl on September 04, 2012, 12:09:15 PM
2x8x20s; Harbor Freight Folding Trailer; Jeep Wrangler ???
It can be done.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0817.247100041.JPG)
Holy crap! Did you have tungsten weights in the cooler up front? (tungsten is 1.7 times heavier than lead).
That works as long as they were stacked on their edge not flat. One would thing the overhang and the flex would break them on their horizontal.... Project is looking good.
I would not be as worried about the lumber flexing and breaking as much as I was thinking about the effect tail heavy trailer might have on the TV (tow vehicle). I used to have a friend who fell victim to a load like that.
Yes, I stacked them on edge. The back end heavy trailer could get a little sway if I jerked the wheel. My approach was to take it slow on back roads. I mostly stayed under 35. The boards were 16 2x8s and pretty light spruce. They were a lot lighter than I expected and lighter than most loads I have taken. Weight distribution and speed were more important factors. With douglas-fir, I might have felt it more in the jeep.
If you haul long things a lot try extending the tongue. IIRC you can flip the plate the coupler mounts to to place the square tube in between the a frame tongue. Then buy some 2x2 square tubing with 3/16 wall. Slide it through the mount and extend far enough back so it passes under the first two crossmembers. Three if you want more robustness. That does drop the coupler a couple inches but that can be easily taken care of.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0833.24872441.JPG)
Here is the ridge board. This actually took a while for me to do. I had to figure out how to cut the 45 degree angle to all the boards so they over lapped at the center of a rafter. I ordered the 3-2x12s all to get that extra inch of overlap. If you look to the bottom of the board you can see the 45 degree cut.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0834.24872600.JPG)
I built the stands in hung it as three separate pieces and connected it.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0837.24872700.JPG)
Cut and notched.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0844.24873024.JPG)
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0845.24873259.JPG)
Test fit first one. I did this before I did the whole stack.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0842.24873119.JPG)
Tying in the rafters.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0848.24873714.JPG)
Collar ties
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0854.24873952.JPG)
How I left it.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0858.24874052.JPG)
I still have to add the last two rafters on each side.
Hi Squirl & Gang
I've been lurking here for a while and have read through many of the great owner/builder threads including this one. Haven't really felt the need to register and post until today... Your pics of the jeep towing a trailer load of lumber had me laughing!
My wife and I have 40acres in (all the way)upstate NY and are working on getting a place to stay set up. Recently I got a 10'x28' deck for free, and hauled it all away from the site and to our property -- with a 1995 jeep wrangler (4cyl) that has currently clocked 232k miles on all original gear d* d* This of course included a whole bunch of 16' deck boards on my 8' long trailer and we had a similar site to what you have depicted here ;D
Thanks for sharing the cabin build, there are a lot of great folks and a wealth of knowledge here for sure.
w* operose!
Wow. 4 cyl with a 10x28. Impressive.
Most of my lumber has been 8-10 ft. The max before this weekend was 12 ft for the top and bottom plates. I had more trouble with the rafters. They were 2x10x14s. Even though they were 6ft shorter and only overhung the back by 3 ft, they had a lot more weight and more sway because there were 36 of them.
This goes to a topic from a few years back. Some assumed since they were starting to build a house they had to go out and buy a truck. A trailer is a lot cheaper and has worked out well for me. Ajbremmer has been able to do it with a Fiesta.
Quote from: Squirl on September 05, 2012, 10:48:35 AM
This goes to a topic from a few years back. Some assumed since they were starting to build a house they had to go out and buy a truck. A trailer is a lot cheaper and has worked out well for me.
I hope you didn't haul this with the heep on that trailer in the background!
(https://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/Squirl1000/Picture099.jpg)
;D I thought about it.
I asked what the weight was. About 4500 lbs. It far exceeded the 1500 lb capacity of the trailer. They rented a trailer to haul it too, but with that adding an extra 1000 lbs, it far exceeded the tow rating of the jeep. IIRC, delivery was $100 for the weekend.
From memory, my jeep is only rated to tow around 2500 lbs. It is not the go. The straight six can easily move 3500 lbs or more. I had a Cherokee with the same engine rated to tow that. It is the stop. It doesn't have the breaks, wheel base, or weight.
I was able to haul a walk behind front end loader with the jeep.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/004.27635042.JPG)
I am probably going to rent a trencher to do the septic. That is about the maximum I would want to push it.
Wheelbase, mostly, from what I've been told by the Jeep mechs. My 09 wrangler is rated at 2000lbs, but the same year 4 door (same engine, brakes, etc.), is 3500. I've towed some moderately heavy trailers just across town and the tongue weight lifts the front wheels enough to make it real squirrely. Steering and control get downright scary. Guess the engine being further forward on the 4 door makes a better counterbalance, and allows an almost double tow rating.
Squirl, your thread is inspirational. Can you explain your choice of 2x10 for studs? Also, what is the spacing between the wall studs?
2x10 studs. My energy code requires R-21 walls.
That left a few options.
2x6 with high density rock wool- downsides: cost of insulation, high embodied energy of insulation, poor air sealing and gaps of batt insulation.
2x6 fiberglass batt with exterior foam - downsides: cost of foam, installation of foam, high embodied energy of foam, poor air sealing of batt insulation, possible condensation issues with foam and batt combo.
2x8 with walls with blown cellulose- downsides, loss of square footage.
I went with 2x10 for that extra bit of insulation. I've many graphs of the diminishing returns on insulated values. They really start to drop off after R-30 for walls. I like stability in energy costs, and would like to build as close to zero net energy as possible. The few extra dollars at this stage of the game was worth it for me.
I could have gone with double stud. I like the concept of using smaller sticks of lumber, even though I really don't like working with them. The cost of double stud was a few dollars more, and with 9.25 inch thick studs @ 24" on center, the stud heat loss shouldn't be as great. Building double the walls didn't sound as fun either.
Quote from: Squirl on September 06, 2012, 01:32:33 PM
From memory, my jeep is only rated to tow around 2500 lbs. It is not the go. The straight six can easily move 3500 lbs or more. I had a Cherokee with the same engine rated to tow that. It is the stop. It doesn't have the breaks, wheel base, or weight.
Quote from: AdironDoc on September 17, 2012, 06:56:04 AM
Wheelbase, mostly, from what I've been told by the Jeep mechs. My 09 wrangler is rated at 2000lbs, but the same year 4 door (same engine, brakes, etc.), is 3500. I've towed some moderately heavy trailers just across town and the tongue weight lifts the front wheels enough to make it real squirrely. Steering and control get downright scary. Guess the engine being further forward on the 4 door makes a better counterbalance, and allows an almost double tow rating.
The 4-door version also weighs a thousand pounds plus over the 2-door, that helps as much as the additional wheelbase.
My Durango is rated for 4500 but it gets scary at that load. I don't like scary tow rigs so I bought an old diesel Dodge, three tons on the bumper ain't <expletive deleted> for that truck.
These pictures were taken last September.
I left off at having the rafters up. I then had to do the last rafter and outrigger rafter.
I lined up four and measured to 2x6 outriggers.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0861.62100439.jpg)
Lots of cutting with the circular saw.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0862.62100517.jpg)
A little notching.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0863.62100549.jpg)
I then assembled them on the roof deck. Don't Do This! I tried reaching them out to holt them in place. The weight was way too heavy for one set of hands to hold that far out, let alone nail. I spent a few hours, and kept dropping it off the roof. I scrapped that idea.
I then hung the last rafter over the wall and built a little cradle from the ends of the other rafters to slide the far rafter out. It worked O.K.. In hind sight, I would have made it line up a little better. The soffit end of the rafter was about half an inch higher than the rest and I had to shave it down to put the sheathing on.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0867.62100741.jpg)
Then I nailed the outriggers in place. As you can see in this picture, the dropped rafter set. I had to disassemble that add put it in place one piece at a time.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0869.62101006.jpg)
I then calculated the required overhang for passive solar gain in the spring and fall, and not the summer. I then placed a nail and chalked a line across the rafters.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0873.62101228.jpg)
Measured and cut.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0887.62102527.jpg)
I then set my circular saw to the angle of the roof and cut the 2x6 facia board to match the angle.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0883.62101643.jpg)
Facia board in place.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0885.62102340.jpg)
I then had to put the sheathing in place. I used 5/8 inch OSB. I wanted a little extra thickness so that I have the option of adding active solar to the roof. I nailed the cut pieces of the rafter tales into the facia board so that the sheathing wouldn't slide off the roof. I put the piece of sheathing flat against the ladder. I then pushed it up the ladder until it dropped onto the roof. I then slid it into place.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0896.62110905.jpg)
I tried to use H clips on the first row. It would give me the right amount of spacing and extra edge support. I gave up after the first row. With osb, even the smallest amount of edge swell would give a tremendous amount of aggravation. Since it wasn't required by code, I used nails to get the needed 1/8 spacing.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0901.62111427.jpg)
After the first row, I would remove the osb temporary deck I had built over the rafter ties, slide the sheets out between the rafters, and position them on the roof.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0900.62111201.jpg)
I am glad I saved my H clips. I used extras on the last strip of sheathing.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0905.62111805.jpg)
I normally make the fly rafter as well as the eaves subfascias out of 2x6 then the finished fascias are 1x8's most of the time.
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/18x242storyshopwithlowshedsD.jpg)
In that setup I'll nail a 2x4 soffit nailer on the wall with the bottom edge in line with the bottom edge of the fly.
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/soffitnailers.jpg)
I usually run my lookouts a few inches long, nail them in place, snap a line, and cut them in place, it corrects any wiggles from the rafter framing... non osha manuever :-\
As I was installing the, I thought to myself... Wait a second. This spacing is 12" O/C and the rafters don't actually bear on anything, I could have used smaller lumber. Head slap. I would have saved a few bucks and a bunch of aggravation.
This is the half inch that it was off.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0890.62110638.jpg)
A few extra minutes to fix.
I went with the 2x6 facia. The house will be dependent on rainwater catchment for the water source, because the gutters will be so critical, I wanted a little extra to screw into.
This was my other mistake I made. I notched the one rafter a little off. I then re notched it. As I was nailing it to the top plate, it split. I cut out the split section and wedged a 2x4 in place. I thought to myself a 2x4 is an acceptable top plat and the rafter bears on it by 1.5". Ignore the bent nails, they were later removed.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0891.62112027.jpg)
I then reread the section of the building code.
R802.6 Bearing. The ends of each rafter or ceiling joist shall have not less than 11/2 inches (38 mm) of bearing on wood or metal and not less than 3 inches (76 mm) on masonry or concrete.
Does this mean I don't have to be so paranoid about it as long as the ceiling joist bears (9.25") on the top plate? I also have almost double the required rafter to ceiling joist heel joint nailing, shot from both directions. 2x10 rafters overlapping 2x8 ceiling joists gives a lot of overlap for nailing.
As long as it is well tied and bears well, tie it down for uplift and it doen't hurt my feelings, you've made a rigid triangle, hold it down and you're good. That bearing area cite is one of those sections of code that can cut it pretty fine. It helps to have some sense of the loads and bearing areas involved, that minimum 1.5 x 1.5" is good for about 750 lbs before wood begins to bite into wood. I've been playing with some oak today, that same bearing surface would be good for about 2000 lbs before crushing became a concern.
My power planer gets used alot, it's quick and helps things plane in better. Run a long straightedge around and remove high spots whether from framing oopses or bad crowns.
I framed the gable end wall.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0912.6474353.jpg)
I then chalked a line to lay out the tar paper. I never would have been able to keep a straight line without it.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0913.6474545.jpg)
I unrolled and cut the paper on the ground. I rerolled it up and rolled it out on the roof. A lot easier.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0917.6474703.jpg)
This is why you use plastic cap nails. I used lots of staples, and climbed down to do the next row. The wind kicked up and I had to start all over.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0918.6474758.jpg)
Tar paper on.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0936.6475209.jpg)
I predrilled the metal sheets upside down. This way any scraps or shavings would not scratch the surface. I scratched the surface a few times while unloading them. I'm going to need some touchup paint.
I chalked a nice bright red line on the tarpaper. I then used the predrilled holes to line them up till I saw the red. It was the only way I was able to keep the sheets square across the length of the building. I use a lot of little cheats.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0937.6475308.jpg)
The sheets were long enough to lay right against the facia board. I just climbed up on the roof and lifted them into place. Wear a safety harness!
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0939.6480402.jpg)
When I got to the end, I put the last sheet in place. I traced underneath the overlap with a sharpie. I took it down, cut along the line and reinstalled it.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0942.6480019.jpg)
This is a picture showing the foam ribs in place.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0943.6480113.jpg)
Hey look it's sunny and the roof is almost finished. Two sheets later it was dark and it had rained. Wear a safety harness.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0944.6480215.jpg)
When I had come back in November this is how I left it.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0945.6480241.jpg)
Shoot, so close.
One thought, can you hire a local contractor, roofer, barn builder... to button it up? It would be cheaper than backtracking and pulling up sheets.
Looks good Squirl. So it looks like basically you need to get more gasketed screws in and the ridge cap.
;D
So, I got a late start this year. I have also been very busy at work and haven't gotten as far as I would like.
First thing was first. I had to finish the roof and repair whatever damage occurred over the winter.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_1025.22564313.JPG)
I was surprised to find half of the tar paper still there. I tore it off. I removed a panel and overlapped the new with the old. (notice the safety harness rope)
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_1026.22564428.JPG)
I put the two eave pieces over the gable ends then started with the ridge cap.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_1027.22564559.JPG)
It was a sunny day. You can see the eave panels, eave pieces, ridge cap, and some of the venting under the cap. That was a pain to install. They did not fit right and I had to use construction adhesive that I had around to glue them in place while I put the ridge cap on.
Gable end sheathing in place.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_1032.22564915.JPG)
I framed in some windows.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_1038.23264843.JPG)
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_1040.23264936.JPG)
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_1043.23265442.JPG)
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_1051.23265544.JPG)
Looking good! Must be nice having lots of natural light inside.
Yes, it is better. I will be happy when I can get some insulation in. It was cold last weekend.
As you can see from the previous pictures the siding is starting to grey and get weathered. I have to get it covered. Siding is a lot more work than I expected it to be. It is longer than many of the projects for the house.
I started with some tar paper. It is harder to put up in one piece in the upper parts.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_1044.239102712.JPG)
I chalked lines for the studs and the starter piece. I can keep a straight line otherwise.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_1045.239102810.JPG)
I went with 6" novelty pine, with a semi-translucent stain. If I am paying for the wood, I wanted to show off its natural look before I have to paint it. I was told novelty pine was one of the most popular siding choices at the lumber yard this year. The yard worker told me they have gone through pallets in the last month and can't remember a single order of vinyl. Surprising.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_1048.239103020.JPG)
Any thoughts on varnish? Spar?
You mentioned spar varnish and I had an bad experience with that this year. It creates a real shell and if the wood underneath contracts and expands, the varnish shell can separate, quite cleanly, from the wood surface. I had this happen on a door that was exposed on the outside to rain and strong sun. The pine wood of the door expanded from humidity and the spar varnished separated in several places and is now flaking off. It is not elastic enough to move with the wood. Once flaking starts water gets under the varnish and makes the problem worse.
My thoughts on outdoors wood are probably not what you want to hear. We have had exterior wooden doors, windows and assorted other things in both a northern (Canada) and a southern (New Mexico) climate. I love the appearance of a clear or transparent finished wood. I do not like the maintenance that comes along with that look. The initial beauty does not last.
A clear or nearly clear finish as the least UV resistance of all finishes. UV kills wood. The more opaque the finish is the more UV resistant it is. That is why I use solid opaque colored paint on most everything exterior. I keep the nice clear coated wood inside.
An oil finish may be a compromise. It soaks in and leaves no hard film. Nothing to flake off. But that requires a lot of maintenance applying new coats of oil.
Being in Canada, I have to tend to agree with Mtn Don. It is the sole reason I have decided to compromise a bit on my cabin and switch from a dutch lap wood plank siding to a Vinyl siding with the same look. I love the bug of building but don't want to burn out the bug on mainainence issues. The inside is where the difference will be made with mine. IMO :)
Yes, I realize in about 5 years it will need another coat of something. I will probably paint it at that time. I want to try and get the natural look to last as long as possible. The lumber yard recommended a second coat of stain in a few years. I have a little experience with spar varnish in boating. It worked on my boat. That is where I got the idea for a coat of spar varnish as a UV protector. If you don't mind me asking, what brand was it? Was it oil or polyurethane? I am surprised. Marine spar varnish is supposed to bend with wood. I will research that further. So I will count that on a no vote for the varnish.
A quick wiki search lead me to an idea why my idea spar varnish maybe different than what is being sold.
QuoteDespite this, the widespread perception of "marine products" as "tough" led to domestic outdoor varnishes being branded as "Spar varnish" and sold on the virtue of their weather- and UV-resistance. These claims may be more or less realistic, depending on individual products. Only relatively recently have spar varnishes been available that can offer both effective elasticity and UV-resistance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varnish#Spar_varnish
To be fair to the use of a 'clear' finish, the NM climate is very hard on wood products. Most of the year it is very dry, humidity in the single digits at times. Then we have a month or so of elevated humidity when the summer monsoon comes. We can feel the expansion in the increased tightness of various wood things; doors, drawers, etc. Add in the elevation with the increased amount of UV that brings, along with days that are never short and the sun damage exceeds that of much of the country. However, my bad experiences with clear coated exterior wood began in Canada.
If it was just wood trim I would say to try some of the Interlux Marine finishes. But I would not even want to contemplate their use on an entire wall(s).
This was Minwax 'Helmsman'. Climate is similar to MtnDons - big swings in temp and humidity, with very strong UV exposure. Good neither for wood siding or bagpipes.
What about products like UVGuard and and Penofin that are used by the log home industry as sealant / UV protector? There seems quite a bit of innovation in that area.
I also understand the desire to have that really nice 'natural' wood look. When we were in the planning stages of our cabin we saw the very nice looking wood "log" siding a neighbor up there used. Karen was keen on using the same thing. I talked her out of it because of the maintenance issue. Now about 5 years later that siding is looking like crap. It was a hard film finish (don't know what) and now the only way to save it is to scrape and wire brush or something and then use an opaque paint. It did not receive any maintenance that I ever noticed. Just a slow and then more rapid degradation. But it sure looked nice in '07 and '08. :)
minwax helmsman spar urethane
This is very helpful. I noticed all the exterior "spar" varnishes at the big box stores were "spar urethane". I was confused because my original understanding was that spar varnish was oil based.
A little bit of wiki reading.
QuoteHowever, a thick film of ordinary polyurethane may de-laminate if subjected to heat or shock, fracturing the film and leaving white patches. This tendency increases with long exposure to sunlight or when it is applied over soft woods like pine. This is also in part due to polyurethane's lesser penetration into the wood.
It is pine siding. Urethane is out. Thanks hpinson.
Cabot makes an oil based varnish. I am already using a cabot oil based stain. I wonder if it is better to use an oil based varnish or just restain with an oil based stain in a few years?
Squirl -- I make bellows for bagpipes, and also experimented with urethane based spar varnish for a durable clearcoat. It has proved most unsatisfactory -- and as in your wiki quote, sharp impact, which is normal for bellows, shatters the finish after a time. I'm mostly using oils now - tung and walnut oil which polymerize with heat, but cost would be prohibitive on siding and I have no idea what UV resistance would be.
I used Penofin on my t-111 and rough cut cedar in Alaska and it has held up very well on vertical surfaces. I applied it in 2005 and the only area that looks a little dry is south facing. I have used it on decks and was not satisfied at all on horizontal surfaces.
Quote from: Squirl on August 28, 2013, 05:02:21 PM
Cabot makes an oil based varnish. I am already using a cabot oil based stain. I wonder if it is better to use an oil based varnish or just restain with an oil based stain in a few years?
I used the same siding, and have the same climate, just a hundred miles or so west of you.
I used the Cabot Oil Based stain. I think it was http://www.cabotstain.com/products/product/Clear-Solutions.html
So far, I have been happy with it, although it has only been a few years. Only problem I have had is a little bit of mildew on parts of just one wall. I think that is because that one area. Maybe due to the fact I stored the novelty siding outdoors for most of the year before I put it on (tarp covered, but still). Or else just not enough stain in that area.
Here is the most recent photo:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-afpm90PvrcE/Uh-D5CMC8yI/AAAAAAAAA2k/zmTrRgYonis/s800/IMAG0085.jpg)
Thanks for the feedback on the stain. I will go with a second coat at some point.
Weekend progress.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_1082.252151849.JPG)
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_1084.252151931.JPG)
Looking good!
so glad ya went with a nice wood siding...looks warm
Some pictures from this weekend.
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_1093.280124348.JPG)
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_1092.280124623.JPG)
(http://www.captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_1094.280124513.JPG)
Looks good I like the siding.