Insulation?

[OldDog]

What are everyones ideas on floor insulation on post and pier?

Thanks,
Bruce

[youngins]

Well, I'm just a rookie  , but I used fiberglass:

[OldDog]

I have been thinking the same thing with a covering of hardware cloth on the bottom of the joist for critter proofing.

[Okie_Bob]

Glen, can I say it? (Icynene) !!!!!
Okie Bob

[youngins]

Glen, can I say it? (Icynene) !!!!!
Okie Bob

While I agree Icynene would be better, it could be pricey.  The company I contact about told me they normally only did jobs worth a minimum of $1500.

They are going to work with me (for around $500) -  but I am going to have to be very flexible as to when they do the work.

[glenn kangiser]

Glen, can I say it? (Icynene) !!!!!
Okie Bob

I don't know how I could stop you BoB.  I think if you had your way we'd all be wearing Icynene insulated underwear in th winter. :-/

[Dustin]

Take a look at this month's Fine Homebuilding. A couple companies are finally coming out with large scale DIY spray foam applications for your home.

[Dustin]

Touch 'n Seal
Convenience Products
www.touch-n-seal.com
800-325-6180

Handi-foam
Fomo Products Inc.
www.fomo.com
800-321-5585

Tiger Foam
Commercial Thermal
Solutions Inc.
www.tigerfoam.com
800-664-0063

[TisaWee Farm]

I have been thinking the same thing with a covering of hardware cloth on the bottom of the joist for critter proofing.

I have a stupid question.....
How do you get the hardware cloth on the BOTTOM of the joists?   Do you crawl underneath?   How could you put it down from above and still make it seal to the joists?

CC

[glenn kangiser]

How about rolling it out - shoving it under there andmaking little bent wire hooks to hook it and staple it to the sides of the floor joists.  I assume this would be for ones who don't want to lay on their back in the dirt.

Also -- possibly 1/2 inch aviary netting may be cheaper -- not sure.

[MountainDon]

-- possibly 1/2 inch aviary netting may be cheaper -- not sure.

Cheaper yes, in my experience. However it may not be up to preventing rodent infiltration. Depends on the rodents.

pegboard works, but is not proof to a field mouse. Mice BTW, can slip thru a 1/4 inch opening like might be found with ill-fitting sloppy carpentry, under doors, etc.

And yes, either you or some appointed relative like a teenage son would have to crawl under. It's a lot easier if rodents are NOT a problem; but they are around here.

Hardware cloth is expensive if you intend to cover the entire underside. On my 14 ft wide plan with an approximate one foot joist overhang (over the support beams/girders) about using hardware cloth at the end overhangs with plywood on the in between span. ??  :-/  The insulation would be held up against the subfloor with the springy wire insert/supports and air could circulate under the insulation from one end to the other.

[youngins]

I'm not as fancy as the more experienced guys - I just used staples.



And, as you can see, I got to play underneath the structure before the kiddies did.

[TisaWee Farm]

How big are the holes in your mesh?  Looks big in the picture!  Will a mouse get through?

How big is your "crawl space".   I don't like dirt and creepy-crawlies, so am dreading crawling underneath.  

[youngins]

1/4" x 1/4" - i think....

Please keep in mind, this is a rookie job site:

[glenn kangiser]

From the scale of your 2x material pictured above I say 1/2 x 1/2.

[Sassy]

Interesting article on "Aerogel" which can be used for insulation...  

"Scientists hail 'frozen smoke' as material that will change world"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article2284349.ece

[MountainDon]

Aerogel sounds like the next wonder pruct.

[skiwest]

Interesting article on "Aerogel" which can be used for insulation...  

"Scientists hail 'frozen smoke' as material that will change world"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article2284349.ece

At the project in northern Alberta I'm working on we used it on high temp steam lines.  We bought 10s of 1000s of square feet.  Works very well for pipe as the thinner the insulation the less surface area.  It was replacing other high temp insulations which are poor insulators.  Still pretty costly  like $3.5/sq ft for .25" thk.    

Right now any scrap that I get will be used around wood stove.

[glenn kangiser]

Thanks for the pricing info.

[skiwest]

that was on 150,000 sq ft so take if for what its worth.  For now niche is where can replace high temp "hard" insulation like calcium silicate .  The beauty of the aerogel is you can just wrap the stuff like a felt blanket.  So one material does all sizes of pipe rather than a different product for every size plus all the labour that goes in to elbows.

[glenn kangiser]

So some is flexible then :-?  I read about some that would shatter like glass and had some of the same components.

[skiwest]

its very flexible , like a felt pad.  Can compress with fingers to about 1/2 thickness but comes back.  I folded and rolled a piece 4' x5' and stuffed into my duffle bag.  

here's a link to what we used http://www.aerogel.com/products/pdf/Pyrogel_3350_6350_10350_DS.pdf

and pic

[Sassy]

Thanks, skiwest!  Interesting stuff - was looking at the pdf file - didn't see the "R" factor that someone like myself would understand.  

[skiwest]

Its in their site somewhere but 1" of Aerogel = R14 so 1" aerogel = 3.5 " firberglass

[blackdog]

How not to insulate a floor...



The above is a pic of the underside of our cottage we purchased last year.  The previous owner of our place insulated the floor with fibreglass batts held in place with a strand of wire.  It's open to the elements (cottage is on piers) and over the years it looks as if some has fallen and not been replaced.  I now have about a 1/4 of the cottage floor (in various places) without any insulation.

In my mind it really serves no purpose except as a critter haven.  I'm thinking of removing the remaining insulation until it can be replaced/installed the correct way.  So far we have never used the place during the winter, so a warm floor isn't really required.  Does it make sense to remove it?

Also, there seems to be a debate on the best way to insulate/critter proof a floor.  I like the spray in place foam products, but costly in my area.  Mice are my biggest problem.  Pegboard or 1/4" hardware cloth seems to be the next best choice, but from previous posts it looks like they won't work.  Does anyone have actual experience keeping mice out with pegboard or 1/4" hardware cloth?