Hi All,
Another couple of simple questions.
I am using two top plates for this simple garage rebuild.
do I nail the studs through the first top plate and then nail the top top plate
tothe bottom top plate?
I had a little problem cutting the studs that interface to the purlins. Can I use shims to make up
the 1/8" or so gap, and if so what material should I use. Would a piece of aluminum be ok?
Tanks for all your help , this has got to be the nicest place to hang out that I have ever found.
Bruce
Re: Nailing the studs. When a wall is built flat and then raised the nails are driven through the plate into the stud end, 2 - 16D nails. Then when the wall is erected the top plate is nailed on top. 16D nail every 16".
Re: studs that are too short. Hmmm. No way to shift the position of the purlin? Can you use those too short studs lengths somewhere else and cut new ones? Spacer should work; aluminum would need drilling holes, no?
Or nail a 2x4 spacer in, and then re-cut the stud to the shorter precise length. ?
Thin plywood shims? If you don't need too many. Hobby stores sell thin plywood for model aircraft building.
Also the top plate is usually extended to lap the wall it is connecting to - like a corner splice or intersecting wall splice. Probably a better name for all of that, but I'm not PEG. ;D
Good point. The upper plate laps over the other wall, tieing the two together.
QuoteAlso the top plate is usually extended to lap the wall it is connecting to - like a corner splice or intersecting wall splice. Probably a better name for all of that, but I'm not PEG. ;D
I have heard the overlap called "Log Cabining". Anyway it adds considerable strength when everything is tied together. As for studs being too short they are hard to stretch. If they are in a bearing wall best to replace them. 2X4's are easy to use up elsewhere for blocking or backing so they won't go to waste.
Thanks guys,
That really helps a whole bunch!
Bruce
QuoteQuoteAlso the top plate is usually extended to lap the wall it is connecting to - like a corner splice or intersecting wall splice. Probably a better name for all of that, but I'm not PEG. ;D
I have heard the overlap called "Log Cabining". Anyway it adds considerable strength when everything is tied together. As for studs being too short they are hard to stretch. If they are in a bearing wall best to replace them. 2X4's are easy to use up elsewhere for blocking or backing so they won't go to waste.
As a "green" carpenter's helper, the first day, I was sent to find a stud strecher.....it's been awhile, but maybe amazon would have one now! :o
Later as a chemical operator, I sent several "green" trainees to find me a bucket of inert gas...some tried! ;)
The tricks the old guys pull on the new guys. ::)
QuoteQuoteQuote
As a "green" carpenter's helper, the first day, I was sent to find a stud strecher.....it's been awhile, but maybe amazon would have one now! :o
Later as a chemical operator, I sent several "green" trainees to find me a bucket of inert gas...some tried! ;)
I the USN avaition side of the house things recruits / new guys get sent for , are
Keys to the jets ::::::::::, they have no keys ;D
Prop wash. :::::::::: For washing air craft.
BT punch::::::: , sent down to the Snipe locker, below decks , where the red gang , Boiler Tech's = BT 's work / hang out.
Chow line ::::::::::
And the ever popular ,::::::::: falopian tube.
left handed monkey wrench
Just my two cents worth on the cabin corners. They are commonly known as "lap joints" on the double plates at the corners. They are also used when you have a interior wall that is load bearing. The interior wall top plate extends onto the exterior wall single plate and then the double continues in both directions from that T intersection.
Right after ITR (Infantry Training Regiment) in the Corps
I was assigned to the 22nd Marines, I was shown to my barracks and the next day
a Corporal sent me out to get a squeegee shapner from the fire station.
I got half way out the screen door, and then realized I'd been had.
Bruce
Anyone else recall sending guys to look for the 'smoking lamp'?
Geez, must be getting old.
Okie Bob
If a whole wall of studs are too short, how about putting a thin layer of plywood between the top plate and the plate below it. That would not affect the strength of the wall. If its only some of the studs, I'm in agreement with replacing them and using them some where else.
I was in a Marine Communication Shop on Okinawa. We got two supply guys to keep us in parts and materials. They drove all over the island in search of some frequency grease. It seems even the Air Force base was out of grease that day. ::)
I have one, desdawg, but what some of my guys did to our guest worker - an ex-uncle, is almost too bad to tell here. :-/
How do you become an ex-uncle? I didn't know divorce was an option at that level of the family tree. Kinda like a cousin once removed. Removed how? No wonder I am anti-social. I don't understand the rules.
Boy, when a thread drifts around here it is kind of like the tsunami effect isn't it? We could land anywhere.
Was the ex-wifes uncle - and yes -- some of her relatives have invited me over no matter what. I still get along with those of them who choose to talk to me. :)
Ex-wives I understand. They get the gold mine, I get the shaft. ;)
We tried to work it out fair - wasn't too bad. We agreed to disagree. :)
We get over it but it plays havoc with the kids. Been there done that.
Mine were pretty well grown up - but keeping it together was worse so only by stopping the misery could the getting better begin. :)
It's never easy no matter how you slice it. But it seems to be a common social circumstance in todays society. It is a lot easier to say "I do" than it is to say "I'm done."
I think that a lot of it is caused by todays society circumstances. The pressures of business, taxes, things and getting enough money to pay for it all especially when things have been going good then the economy falls in the crapper but the bills do not, can cause things to fall apart.
The saying 'I'm done" and sticking with it was the hard part. Promised my daughter that if things didn't get better I would put an end to it. Ex-wife called a few months later and said I did the right thing. Life is too short to continue in an environment that is destructive to both and no one is bending, just because it seems to be the right thing to do. At the time it is happening you are seemingly blind to the problem and the cure. When it is hopeless you have to move forward for the sake of all. Note that our immediate families -while distant are now on good terms. Two decent people can once again work on the pursuit of happiness. :)
Now -- about that nail sequence.... ;D
Yes, now, about that nail sequence! (Which is not to imply that I am unsympathetic to the
stuff you had to go through.)
First off I followed Don's advice and cut me some new studs, and I have already used up the
old ones for various things, so that was a win all around. Thanks Don!
And now for a brand new nail question....
When toenailing the studs to the bottom plate, what is the prefered way? Two nails on each side?
nails on the ends?
And for the pesky little cross pieces that go between the studs to keep them straight, and to use
for nailing the plywood to. How many nails and where?
One last question on this theme, I have a header going over a window opening in the usual
manner. Where do the nails go to keep this puppy in place? I figure that it gets face nails going through the king stud into the end of the header which is a 4 x 6 I had extra.
I figure the studs on either side supporting the header get face nailed into the king stud,
but I figure I probably am missing a few someplace.
Thanks again for all your help. I may actually get this project finished........
I will also try to get some pictures if you all promise not to laugh.
Okinawa, now that is a sweet duty post! I actually sold some frequency grease to some idiot
running around looking for some. I don't think he ever realized what I actually sold him....
Just kidding.
Bruce
I just shoot anything that moves with a nailgun, Bruce. We better wait and see what PEG does. ;D
Bruce
Try to shot all the nails on the wall cavity. If you try toe nailing occassionally one will not go right and that will be the one that will interfere with either the drywall sitting flush or the sheeting sitting flush. If you get two or three into the header you should be Ok as you are only holding it in place. The jack stud will carry the weight. As fir toe nailing the stud ends to the plates any sequence is ok as long and you do not split it out and make a smaller stud. Most contractors will put 3 up through the stud from the plate. That is providing that you are building the wall an then erecting it. If it is a building in place stud 2 to one side and one to the other should be sufficent.
QuoteWhen toenailing the studs to the bottom plate, what is the prefered way? Two nails on each side?
nails on the ends?
If you mean nailing studs in place after the sill plate is in place, then 3 nails as redoverfarm said would do nicely. One between the other 2.
QuoteI just shoot anything that moves
Your only resemblance to Dick Cheney. ;D ;D
I don't generally get inebriated before I shoot though. ;D
Ok, you all can start laughing now. I finally got up the nerve to use the palm nailer that Glenn had recomended. I have no idea why I was so nervous about trying it. I can only imagine that
it goes back to my earlier attempts of using a hammer for something other than the ends of my fingers.
So I set everything up and predrilled everything since this has to meet the ciity's overlords
decrees and I was afraid that if they saw the slightest sign of split wood, I would be taken out back and shot.
What an idiot I was, this palm nailer is the best thing since sliced bread! Thank you very much Glenn! In fact I am actually starting to like working with wood now,
Thanks everyone for the great advice on the nailing, it sure helps a lot.
Bruce
Glad you like it, Bruce -- soon you will want the 60d adapter so you can drive 6" spikes with it. :)
Split wood -- do they care -- I'm not sure -- the main thing is that they get the fee and the taxes. ::)
That's for sure,
I am paying taxes on a non existant project that they made me start 10 years ago and the
pulledthe rug out from under me. Long story and pretty ugly.
Thanks again Glenn,
And I probably will order one of those adapters if I can find someone I can order it from.
Bruce
If you got the Senco, I just ordered from a local Senco Nail and gun dealer.
With a bit of practice you could do it like this guy and get those hard to reach nails from the ground. :)
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/th_El_Rey_del_martillo.jpg) (https://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/?action=view¤t=El_Rey_del_martillo.flv)
Sent to me by a friend in Australia.
Finally I have something to work towards AFTER my home is built :)
Wow!
I can't nail that good when the hammer handle is in my hand. :-/
I guess if you are really good a making your own loads, you could really get a whole lot dong with a BMG.
And now for a more serious question...
When I was toenailing a nailer 2x4 between two studs it seems that even if I clamp the piece in place,
after I am finished nailing two nails in the top and two in the bottom, there is a tiny gap between the end of the 2x4 and the stud. Not big, but enought to let light thru. Any clues on what I am doing wrong?
Bruce
If using the nailer, keep in mind that the nailers don't draw things together as good ( per PEG ) as a hammer. A few bangs with the hammer could help - assuming the board is cut long enough.
Possibly you need to add a bit for the saw kerf or cut outside the line on the waste piece. The kerf is about 1/8th inch.
Just ideas...
Picture might help, if you can do that.
These are horizontal sections in between vertical studs?
Somewhere be tween the top and bottom plates, but not touching the plates?
If so, do they fit tight before nailing?
Trying to develop a visual.....
And yep, nailers don't pull things together. They shoot the nail too fast for that. A space can remain between as the nail shoots through. A big hammer will set the power driven nail. Sometimes a nail set helps with that, if the nail is in an awkeard spot.
Never force it.
If necessary, get a bigger hammer. :-?
Yup -- as you suspected -- that was BS. :)
Gee Don, I really like the new look. All dressed up and nowhere to go?
That makes sense. I suspect that the nailer introduces a recoil or bounce that is causing this.
Like those gizmos that have the three balls hanging from strings that you use to demonstrate
the transfer of energy from one to the other.
At least I am not just going crazy.........well, about this, anyway.
Thanks,
Bruce
Bruce
Usually when you go to the opposite side and do it again it will close up the gap. But then you have the same thing on the other side. What you are getting is that even though the stud seems solid when the nailer force is applied when nailing the stud gives on the side not being nailed. For demo purposes just grab a stud and pull it. It will move. Same thing is happening when nailing. If you really want to eliminate it put a block between the adjacent stud this will minimize the movement of the stud you are nailing. I usually start on one end and move to the other one block after another. If they are nailed just above or below the previous it will stay a lot more solid.
Like stated before finish closing the gap if it bothers you with a hammer. Just remember that not all things in life fit that tight.
QuoteGee Don, I really like the new look. All dressed up and nowhere to go?
Thanks. Halloween only.... changed back to the now boring animated mountains.
That stuff could be the ultimate sunscreen. :-/
Yes, but it shure is nice when they do....
Yes I am a believer in the bigger hammer approach, well, sometimes.
I think I have a big block of lead some place which should help with the rebound.
The palm nailer is so soft that I'd forgotten about doing things like backup.
I suspect this will solve the problem, and if it doesn't, then out comes the bigger hammer.
I'll see if I can't start taking some pictures of stuff. Ok, you can laugh.
Bruce