Concrete Wall Pix - info - tips

Started by glenn-k, January 14, 2007, 06:27:20 PM

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Daddymem

#25
Gotta go with Bart on this one too...but there could be something better than the recovery system.  I would think that system in locales near surface waters would make sense but if you aren't near any surface waters, why couldn't a temporary sedimentation basin like they use in dewatering operations work?  There really is a huge difference between cured concrete, curing concrete, and concrete wash.  Cured concrete is pretty harmless, curing concrete can be problematic if in direct contact with water, concrete wash is horrible stuff.  The sediments, the chemical compounds, and the PH of the concrete is not something you want to get into water if you want fish.  The PH change from concrete wash could very well create a good environment for some plants to grow lush but that doesn't indicate it would be good to get into the water.  

....then again, maybe I work at 5000 E Mcdowell Rd Mesa, AZ   ;)

desdawg

My migrane is coming back. And I don't get migranes. Maybe it is a hemi-roid. How many concrete trucks do you have to wash out to contaminate Lake Michigan? How about Lake Huron? How about Okie Bob's Lake in Texas? I want to know just how really significant this is. The toxins in a septic tank's effluent are neutralized in less than 3' of perculation. And that is dumped in the exact same location year after year. Concrete trucks are only washed out a few times per job and then it is over.
Daddymem, what has Boeing got to do with it?
OK, enough ranting from me. Guess I'll go get some canola oil for my chainsaw bar.


MountainDon

Quote

....then again, maybe I work at 5000 E Mcdowell Rd Mesa, AZ   ;)
I googled this too,,,, I'll bite. What's the significance??

glenn-k

The only thing I can figure is that that's where they come from.  Is that it Daddymem?

MountainDon

QuoteI'll go get some canola oil for my chainsaw bar.

get me a can o'oil too  ::)



desdawg


Daddymem

#32
Check it out zoomed way in, Bird's eye view, on maps.live.com

glenn-k

#33
I suspected


Daddymem

And now we are jumping from concrete to septic???  No wonder you got a migraine, keep the apples together and it may make sense.  And maybe the scale too.  One washout ain't gonna kill a lake, but would it be okay the washout flowed into a river and killed a few fish?  And the next day a few more, then a few more the following day because it is one of those massive subdivisions with McMansions 100 feet on center?  On the other hand some sensibility is a must, if there is no waterbody nearby, just let em wash out into a hole in the ground.

MountainDon

Are those the black helicopters that keep following me??  :-/

MountainDon

Quoteif there is no waterbody nearby, just let em wash out into a hole in the ground.
That would require some decision making. If the answer's not in the book, oh my god, what do we do/

Daddymem

#37
but remember...you'd be asking a contractor to make that decision...good luck when it touches the bottom line

glenn-k

#38
They're on me like flies on stink.  You too, Mountain Don?

I think the thing about this is once an agency is appointed or appoints itself with the ability to levy massive fines, common sense is out the window -- there is no more.  As we keep making new rules and laws for ourselves we become more and more prisoners of the police state.  I guess there is no nice way to make sure the abusers don't abuse so this is what it comes to even for the small insignificant amount in a totally safe area or place.

This is where they love to put the little dudes with a ticket book and a power trip.


jerseydave

As you all know my livelyhood relies on the concrete industry.

However I've been doing this for a couple decades or so and can tell you that we have some of the healthiest bullfrogs in our "run off pond" at the concrete plant where I work...... no bullshit.

I can also tell you that since the EPA and DEP crawled up my employers ass a few years ago with extremely strict and ridiculous regulation, the price of our product has DOUBLED.

Hope all you environmentally OVERLYfriendly folks enjoy the cost of construction these days.

All industry needs common sense control, the EPA and DEP is not capable of common sense.

Please explain to me how my employer is supposed to stop the RAINWATER from leaving his property...... thats right, he needs to control the rain. EPA SAYS ZERO RUNOFF.

I feel another price increase coming!

glenn-k

Once it gets to the powertrippers there is no common sense allowed.  The big guys may be able to factor it into their pricing --maybe -- but in the end the peons are going to pay.

Daddymem

More oranges.  Bullfrogs don't have gills to get clogged up with the sediments like fish do and they tend to be a more resilient species anyways and concrete prices continue to soar mostly because China is gobbling up the cement supplies.  Stopping rainwater couldn't be easier...swale it to detention basins and I'm sure it is a pine grove where this rain is falling that we are talking about right?  And yes, DEP and EPA do have out of control regulations that need lots of work but could you imagine trying to come up with them?  Until someone comes up with a better way you have to just keep trying to change those that are wrong and these washout ones sound like ones needing changes.

jerseydave

It must be nice to stand back and proclaim that "nothing could be easier" especially when you are completely detached from the situation.

Have you ever heard of gravity...... water table...... sediment........etc. etc. etc.

EPA won't allow detention basins........ guess they haven't heard how "nothing could be easier".

WAKE UP!

I'm done with this topic....... My blood pressure can't take it.

glenn-k

Thanks for your input Jersey Dave.  I know this is right in your back yard.

Daddymem is an engineer and a good one, so is familiar with many of the problems associated with these issues.  Obviously not being there he cannot know all of the factors involved or the roadblocks set up.

I realize that working with the "agencies" can completely bankrupt a company and they don't really give a damn.  

If we could do something about it we would but the lawmakers know how to mess things up to where sometimes they can't be fixed.

I hope a good solution comes along.  

If your blood pressure comes down please update us on what is happening.   :)

Daddymem

#44
Educate us Dave, don't go in a huff.  There are usually many sides to all stories.  I am not familiar with the exact EPA regulations you speak of but I deal with storm water in my job all the time.  Basins in groundwater are no problem, heck you can even get water to run in inverted pipes so gravity can be overcome in some ways.  I'm one of those weirdos that fits somewhere in the middle.  I think there should be regulations because, quite frankly, people can't be trusted, but I think there can be too many regulations too.  Sometimes it is difficult to balance that.  We engineers are supposed to be enforcers of the regulations for the agencies, benders of the regulations for our clients and weigh in our personal beliefs somewhere in there too.  If my clients had their way, all my basins would be too small to control stormwater and their neighbors would be flooded out.  If the DEP had their way, my clients would make no profit.  I am currently working on a stupid 6 lot subdivision where two of the lots would encompass existing houses...since my initial application in August.  Another meeting this monday evening and it doesn't look like we will close it.  Believe me, I know dealing with regulations...

And btw, I like frogs, fish and concrete guys too-my dad is one.  And concrete too...I've got a piece of my first concrete cylinder crushed in materials lab sitting on my monitor at work.


glenn-k

Jersey Dave, don't know if you want to divulge this information or not but could you give us an address for the site in question so we would be able to look it up on Live Map and at least see a bit more of what your company is up against.

If you'd rather not just say so.  Thanks :)

Daddymem

#46
Here is the regulations I think he is dealing with.
http://www.njconcrete.com/aggregate.htm

and it sounds like good news...a bit of a homerish site but looks like in this case the industry has won some ground

Daddymem

#47
Quote
Daddymem is an engineer and a good one


Wow, aren't we sticking our neck out.  For all you know I designed the bolts in the big dig tunnel roof.  ;)

No, I didn't...really.  

glenn-k

#48
I have worked with engineers for the last 30 years or so.  I know when they are full of it.  My BS meter doesn't go off when I deal with you. :)  (Very often) ;D

Daddymem

#49
Don't get me started on the mess of my field.

Oh and- Go PATS!

Normally I'd say go Bs too, but we know how that season is going  :-[