Introducing Bruce

Started by Bruce, November 29, 2006, 02:24:22 PM

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glenn kangiser

Jonesy - when you get a break, are you pushing air through the tubes rather than pulling air through the tubes?  Seems it might make a big difference, although it would mean putting power to the far end of the tubes.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

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JRR

#26
"Pushing" thru the tubes would also be more effective for heat exchange, as there would be more-turbulent/less-laminar air flow in the tubes.   ... as well as more air flow in total.


jonsey/downunder

#27
Here is another update on the cool tubes. I think my initial assessment of the system may have been a little previous. It may well be working a bit better than I first thought. We are still not in the house yet as I'm still waiting for my plumbob to put in an appearance. So, there are no drapes on the windows to help with the insulation. Previous to today I had let the house get a little to warm before starting the pump. There was also one window that was taking the full morning sun from about 7 am to around 10 am, I have since made a couple of shade awnings that protect that area.
We have no other air conditioning so this system is operating as a stand-alone unit at the moment. I will probably put an evaporative unit in later; these work well in this area as our humidity is fairly low most of the time.
The first run.
The overnight temp got down to around 19 dgr C so I opened most of the windows in the house to take advantage of this cooling. At 7.30 am I closed up the house and started the pump. The outside temp at that stage was the same as in the house, 20 dgr C. By about 10 am the outside temp had risen to 26 dgr C and the interior 21. By midday the outside temp had made 30 dgrs and the inside was holding steady at 23 dgrs. For the whole morning I was working inside the house and at no time felt uncomfortable with the temp. By about 3 PM the outside had made it to its peak of 35 dgrs with the temp indoors at 25. This was all fairly rough and ready as I only have one thermometer and have to move it round a bit. I forgot to take any readings at the floor duct so I have no information on the air temp out of the pipes for that day.
The second day was pretty much the same except the temp out side was around 32 dgr at midday and reached a peak of 37 at around 3 pm. At that stage the house inside had got to about 27 dgr C. This was just getting to the stage of being uncomfortable and I would have turn an aircon on if I had one. Interestingly In the house we are presently living in the aircon was needed at around 10 am both days.
Today was a real good test with a peak temp of 41 dgr C. The temp was 36 by midday The inside was holding around 27 and I was looking for the aircon switch. The air temp out of the tubes was about 26 dgr. I think the reason for this is the pump I am using is pushing the air through the system to fast.
I am still of the opinion that this system is to small but I think it has some potential so I will continue to play with it, to see what I can get out of it.


I have included a few snaps of the underside of the house and the ducting system



The first pic is the intake; it is 8" and has an insect screen under the louvre plate. I will also put some sort of dust filter in there as well later on. It is situated under the deck on the sheltered side of the house. If I continue with the system I will move it out near the edge of the deck for easy cleaning.
The next shot is the ducting. At the bottom right in the duct line you will just make out the pump. About 2meters after the pump the 8" line splits into the two 6" lines and goes to the ground tubes on either side of the house.



The next shot is the entry and exit set up. The silver duct is the air entry side. The air goes into the tube and out to the front of the block to come up through the floor on the other side of the house. The tubes are in the form of a big U; I needed to do this to get a decent length of pipe for the cooling run. The white padded duct is where the air from the opposite tube emerges from the system and enters the house through the floor register.



The last shot is the floor register in the master bedroom. There is one the same in the other bedroom. If you have a look at the floor plan on the WebPages you will see how it is set out. On the index page there is also a conversion table you can down load if the metrics is a problem for you.



Glenn the pump is pushing the air through the system but as you can see it would be easy enough to change that aroud if I want to.
I've got nothing on today. This is not to say I'm naked. I'm just sans........ Plans.

glenn kangiser

Being the short memoried poor observer that I am, you probably already told me this was a U system.  That would be the best with the high outside temps - continue recirculating the cooler underground tempered air.  Thanks for taking time to bring us this information, Professor Jonesy. :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

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jonsey/downunder

#29
Professor! Take it easy "Sweetie" ;D you'll give me a swelled head and my Akubra won't fit. That's not good, because, although I am somewhat vertically challenged I did at some stage, manage a spurt of growth that punched a hole in my roofing thatch. Therefore, I could end up with sunburn on my chrome dome. Besides, I wasn't smart enough to figure out that a 6" pipe was just not going to cut the mustard on a 40-degree day.  ;)
I've got nothing on today. This is not to say I'm naked. I'm just sans........ Plans.


glenn kangiser

Dagnabit.  Now she's gonna haf to pay. >:(
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Sassy

http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/

You will know the truth & the truth will set you free

jonsey/downunder

We've got him now Sassy, need any more shelves done? ;D
I've got nothing on today. This is not to say I'm naked. I'm just sans........ Plans.

glenn kangiser

I'm already working on them. >:(
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.


Sassy

As a matter of fact... I was just showing him an area that would make a nice little pantry!   :)
http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/

You will know the truth & the truth will set you free

jonsey/downunder

That's the go but you need to be careful not to side track him with to many endearments. And whatever you do don't, mention bobcats or he'll be off digging another room. ;D
I've got nothing on today. This is not to say I'm naked. I'm just sans........ Plans.

glenn kangiser

That's it --- I'm off to drive the Bobcat. :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

jonsey/downunder

#37
While you're on it mate, you could nip up to Johns and get me a scoop of that snow and ice. It's hot down here, over 40 degree's and it's only 11 am. The air con has been on since about 8 and I am not going to move to far from it. Therefore, you have my undivided attention until I can find out where Mrs. goanna jonesy has hidden the beanbag. ;D
I've got nothing on today. This is not to say I'm naked. I'm just sans........ Plans.

JRR

Jonsey, that reads like pretty good performance on the system.  Bet a bit of tweaking will have it doing all it needs.

Is your atmosphere dry enough so that you could just spray water into the ductwork and get the extra cooling required?


Sassy

I was looking at Daddymem & Mommymem's blog when all of a sudden Glenn pops out of his recliner, runs outside & starts driving the bobcat!   :o  He wasn't gone but a couple minutes... I asked him what in the world he was doing, he said "moving the bobcat so you can clean up the driveway!"  I hadn't been keeping up with the latest news postings between you & him!   ;)  

Ah, yes, the endearments...   ;)
http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/

You will know the truth & the truth will set you free

jonsey/downunder

JRR, I have thought of maybe using some CELDEK PAD and a bit of water much like an evaporative air system. However, I think that this system properly sized would work fine as an air conditioner even in the peak heat events down here. In fact the mate that I have been working with is impressed enough with it to consider putting one of his own in. He is an air-conditioning specialist so he should be able to work out the size of the system needed. I am also thinking of maybe digging up mine and increasing the size of the tubes, it's no problem for me to do this. The humidity down here is low most of the time.
I've got nothing on today. This is not to say I'm naked. I'm just sans........ Plans.

glenn kangiser

People in Australia want ice water.  Didn't you just call me Sweetie?, Jonesy :-/

Bruce is going to kick us off of his thread but I think we have kept up with his topic just by showing him it gets a bit crazy around here and looking back through the thread I think there are lessons here too.

Just lay off the Sweetie crap, and maybe I'll go get that ice water. :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

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jonsey/downunder

No Mate, I wouldn't call you sweetie, it was JRR that made me do it.  ;D Send the Ice water quick you big handscomb teddy bear. ;D
I've got nothing on today. This is not to say I'm naked. I'm just sans........ Plans.

glenn kangiser

I don't recall you ever seeing me in my birthday suit. :-/
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Sassy

#44
I must warn you, Jonsey - sometimes Glenn can be passive-aggressive...  ;)
http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/

You will know the truth & the truth will set you free


jonsey/downunder

I've found the beanbag so I'm out of here before an angry bobcat flattens me. ;D
I've got nothing on today. This is not to say I'm naked. I'm just sans........ Plans.

glenn kangiser

Catch you later , Jonesy -- I'm burning steaks in our Round Oak wood stove right now. :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

John Raabe

#47
Jonsey:

Glenn's mole approach to housing... get a bobcat and dig a new room, would seem to make very good sense in a hot, sun baked climate. Are there examples in the downunder world?

There was a building, a suite of rooms really, that was built underground in Fresno, CA perhaps 50 years ago. All rooms opened into an open air courtyard that was also dug out. The air in the courtyard was conditioned by fountains and was very pleasant without mechanical air conditioning.
None of us are as smart as all of us.

glenn kangiser

#48
"To make something with lots of money, that is easy.  But to make
something out of nothing--that now, is something!"
                                                                                           Baldassare Forestiere

They state that the site was about 10 acres and 3 levels.

This must be the one you  mean, John.  I drilled the well there.

http://www.forestiere-historicalcenter.com/index.html



"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

John Raabe

#49
That's what I was thinking of. I've not seen it myself but I had pictures in my head. I actually like my head pictures better - they would involve machinery and sod roofs rather than the arches that Forestiere built by hand.

Here are other links to the Forestiere Underground Gardens:
Overview.
Images.
Coober Pedy in Australia.
None of us are as smart as all of us.