Portable SawMill service? Who'd be interested?

Started by OlJarhead, October 19, 2012, 09:47:52 PM

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OlJarhead

Note:  John, if this isn't ok to post please let me know but I'm hoping it is ok.
Thanks.
Erik

Okanogan and Ferry County cabin folks:  How likely is it you'd be interested in having someone haul their portable sawmill to your place to mill up some of your trees?

I'm seriously considering putting my Woodmizer LT10 onto a trailer and starting a business sawing logs in that area (Okanogan, Omac, Tonasket, Oreville, Republic etc).  I may upgrade to a larger mill if I find the work is there.

[Edit -- upgrades to the mill have improved some things] What I can do now:  Up to 24" diameter logs 18 feet in length (~18'6") to pretty much any dimension you want.   I can mill anything from 1/4" thickness (actually smaller but can't imagine anyone wanting that small -- heck, smaller then 3/8" might have me scratching my head) to anything above that.  So doing 5/8" roughsawn lumber is easy as asking and anything larger is just faster -- so dimensional lumber from your pine, fir or Tamarack is easy enough (actually any kind of wood suitable for your needs is fine).

With one assistant I can usually mill around 150 to 250 board feet an hour which means you'd be paying about 25 cents per board foot -- and will get about 50% MORE out of your logs then if a traditional mill saws them up.  However, the smaller the logs the less efficient the process so I won't saw logs smaller then about 8" in diameter if I can help it -- milling 6-8" logs could get a little spendy (perhaps more then $1/bf) but then again, if you wanted them milled I'd probably be willing to do it.  My preference is stuff in the 15 to 20 inch diameter range as they produce very well on the mill.

Larger then 24" would have to be slabbed down by the customer to 24" or less so it will fit on the mill.

Feedback?
Thanks
Erik



OlJarhead

#1
The more I look into this the more I'm considering it.

Rates will be $50 setup and delivery within 20 miles (additional fees may incur for longer distances) and $50/hr milling rate with a likely minimum of 4 hours of milling (not much point in dragging the mill out for two logs unless the customer is willing to pay for it).

[Edit -- production rates are much higher then I first estimated] So if the possibility of getting 600-1000 board feet of lumber for $450 (if only a 4 hour job)  interests you -- out of your own trees that is -- then let me know.

Also, for those out of the area, please chime in as it would be interesting to see what others think too.


OlJarhead

Changed the title as the original might have been a little misleading or at least lacking in details enough to get folks to see it.

OlJarhead

Had to make a few edits since I originally posted this.

1.  Production rates can be as high as 250 board feet an hour -- or greater even -- but depend on log sizes, placement of logs on site when I arrive, helper (all portable mills I've seen advertised are mill and operator only and the customer provides the help to load and offload the mill -- so, busy owner means higher production rates -- or an owner willing to pay an additional fee for a helper -- one of my boys).

2.  The mill is now being installed onto a new trailer :)  So it will be ready to tow right up to your remote location.

3.  Just ordered the bed extension too, so I can now mill just over 18 foot logs :)

4.  Cost per board foot may be as low as 20 cents!  Considering big box stores charge as much as $3 per board foot you really can't lose having someone mill lumber out of your own trees!

roadtripray

Those seem like competitive rates.  I wish you the best of luck with that.  I was just looking at a Craigslist ad here in the Charlotte, NC area and a fellow is advertising his portable sawmill with a $125 trip/setup charge and $55 per hour for one experienced sawyer plus a helper.  The lot I just bought is very wooded and I have thought about thinning out some trees in one part of the land anyway.  Using them for lumber interests me a lot.

In your expert opinion, how would a layperson such as myself scout out suitable trees for milling into lumber?  Any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Ray


NM_Shooter

Erik... good luck with this!  I may have to duplicate your efforts here in NM if this works out for you.  Any customers yet?

Do you have video of your mill working?
"Officium Vacuus Auctorita"

OlJarhead

Quote from: roadtripray on December 03, 2012, 04:56:53 PM
Those seem like competitive rates.  I wish you the best of luck with that.  I was just looking at a Craigslist ad here in the Charlotte, NC area and a fellow is advertising his portable sawmill with a $125 trip/setup charge and $55 per hour for one experienced sawyer plus a helper.  The lot I just bought is very wooded and I have thought about thinning out some trees in one part of the land anyway.  Using them for lumber interests me a lot.

In your expert opinion, how would a layperson such as myself scout out suitable trees for milling into lumber?  Any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Ray

Those are good rates!  Around here typical rate for one sawyer and the mill is $65-$85/hr unless traveling to a location then can run as high as $100/hr plus setup fees etc.  With a helper runs $130 with a guy down in Southern Oregon and I'm not sure what anyone else charges.

Can't say I'm an expert though  :o  Just a guy who's milled up a bunch of pine for his cabin and needs to find ways to earn enough to survive!

On advice for trees for lumber I'd suggest going to ForestryForum.com and asking the foresters there (they are experts) but if you were my customer I'd say to stick with the tallest and straightest trees you can and try to get the ones that are at least 12" at chest height.

Basically it's about production vs value I think.  For example if you have a LOT of trees in the 8-10 inch diameter size and want the lumber for yourself and don't mind paying a fixed rate (lot of guys won't saw small logs at a footage rate) then just take the biggest ones to thin out the woodlot and give room for the smaller trees to grow -- at least that's my thinking but again, go to the forestry forum and ask there since those folks are serious arborists, foresters and sawyers!

OlJarhead

Quote from: NM_Shooter on December 03, 2012, 04:57:35 PM
Erik... good luck with this!  I may have to duplicate your efforts here in NM if this works out for you.  Any customers yet?

Do you have video of your mill working?
This is the only video I have now:


That's the way we milled all of my knotty pine and blue stained pine (and we're still at it).

OlJarhead

Quote from: NM_Shooter on December 03, 2012, 04:57:35 PM
Erik... good luck with this!  I may have to duplicate your efforts here in NM if this works out for you.  Any customers yet?

Do you have video of your mill working?

Forgot to answer your question about customers.  No, maybe, could be! lol

Truth is I haven't been doing any real advertising.   I posted a couple ads on Craigslist and had someone local call about doing a slab job for him (about 20 minutes work) which I'll do once the trailer is done.

Might have some work near Omac in the late spring but one never knows this far out.

Beyond that I don't really know but my research tells me it's hard to find anyone near there to mill in remote locations which suggests the work may be there.  After all, a LOT of folks have cabins and property up there and could use lumber.

A couple we sold our trailer to has parents with 160 acres near us and I guess they might be interested too...so it's a lot of ??? at the moment but I believe once the mill is done (getting the trailer finished etc) and I am able to show it off then I can get work.  The real question is: will it support me?

The investment for a larger mill (one size up) that's already on a trailer etc is about $10k and if I could have done that I would have but I figure the $7k or so I'll have in mine will either pay for itself and feed me or it won't.  And I'll keep looking for work in the telecom world while I work on my business.

Make sense?


NM_Shooter

Hmmmm.... what about finding folks who want property cleared.  Can you do the clearing in exchange for the timber and then sell it off?  Or would the brush and stump work be too much of a hassle?

Seems like there ought to be a way to make some $$$ off of that thing.  Do you wear out your blades very quick?  I read that water cooling helps to keep the blades sharp.
"Officium Vacuus Auctorita"

diyfrank

I may have some in the spring.
I have some trees dying here and there that would be worth milling.
I wouldn't mind having enough to finish my walls and maybe even floor boards.
I'll check with you latter on once the snows gone.
Home is where you make it

OlJarhead

Quote from: NM_Shooter on December 03, 2012, 07:01:40 PM
Hmmmm.... what about finding folks who want property cleared.  Can you do the clearing in exchange for the timber and then sell it off?  Or would the brush and stump work be too much of a hassle?

Seems like there ought to be a way to make some $$$ off of that thing.  Do you wear out your blades very quick?  I read that water cooling helps to keep the blades sharp.

I could do the clearing work but would prefer not too....though, if the logs are big enough it might be worth milling them up to sell but I don't have a trailer to haul them with.

Blades are resharpened after 2-3hrs of use for $7/ea so not much of an issue :)  I have 16 that I rotate and plan to get more if there is work to be done.

OlJarhead

Quote from: diyfrank on December 03, 2012, 09:22:29 PM
I may have some in the spring.
I have some trees dying here and there that would be worth milling.
I wouldn't mind having enough to finish my walls and maybe even floor boards.
I'll check with you latter on once the snows gone.

No problem :)  Just let me know when the time comes and I'll be there :)  I'll give cheaper rates to the first countryplans forum members who need some lumber too ;)  Just drop me a line when the time comes and I'd be happy to make it very worthwhile ;)  After all, what I need to get started is some folks who are happy with the service and product telling others about it.

Best thing to do when the time comes (and this is really for everyone), is to fall the trees, buck them into lengths you'd prefer to have (add 6" per log -- so if you want 1x's that are 8 feet long cut the log to 8'6" to allow for checking etc), then roll them all into a 'landing' that the mill can be towed to.  The logs will load on the drivers side of the mill/rig so bear that in mind too.

The trailer is 20' plus tongue and bigger mills aren't too much longer (I think the LT40 is 24' but need to check) and will be detached from the truck once in operation.

Another thing to do is to make sure the 'butts' are all on the same side -- meaning the fat ends are all together.  This makes dealing with the taper easier for the miller.

Lastly, if you're (again for anyone) in the area near me and need the skidder I can drive over the tractor to skid the logs to the landing for a reasonable fee -- as long as it's not too far!  Longer distances I'll have to rent a trailer but that's also doable for the appropriate fees.

Hope that all makes sense.
Erik

OlJarhead

Thought of something else to:  Blue Stain!

If you have windfalls laying around (who doesn't? lol) then check them for rot and if they appear to have some good wood in them buck those up also!  They make beautiful lumber for trim!


The trim around this window came from an old windfall pine I milled up!  We LOVE the way it looks!

Of course, old dead trees can have a fair amount of rot in them so you have to consider that there will be loss in the log but it's best to mill them, dry them and then see what can be used and what must be cut out.  We think it's well worth the effort though!


OlJarhead

Very excited!  [cool] :) My 7 foot bed extension arrived today and I only ordered it Yesterday!!!

OlJarhead

I wanted to add this for all of you who might be thinking of having a portable miller come out and mill up some trees (doesn't matter where your cabin is):

Stickers!

Stickers are the little 1/2" to 3/4" thick and wide pieces of wood that go between each layer of new lumber that's been freshly milled when it is stacked for drying and you need lots of them!

The best thing to do if you are in a remote location and don't have a drying barn (or something of the sort like a shed etc) then pick up some pallets (you can get those free if you look) and lay them out on the ground where you'll be stacking your finished lumber for drying.  I usually use 3 pallets for 8 foot lumber.

Then set your stickers which need to be about 3/4"x1"x48" (you can use bigger and smaller but I've found that 3/4" by 1" makes a great sticker) near by so they can be quickly grabbed and placed on the stack evenly spaced (about 2 feet apart with one on each end).  Make sure they stay dry before use also.

Then when the sawmill is set up and the operator is ready to start making your lumber place some 2x4's length wise down the 3 pallets so you can then use your stickers to lift the bottom new lumber off the pallets and 2x's.  This allows air to travel under and around the boards which will draw out the moisture.

The miller will only usually operate the mill itself and you, the property owner/customer gets to play 'mill hand' during the milling process (unless you want to pay for a 2nd person to come do that for you which usually runs $25-$30/hr from what I've seen).  This means that as soon as the log is made into a 'cant' (4 square sided log) then the operator will begin sawing your specified lumber and as each pass is completed (takes probably 30 seconds to a minute depending on the log size if I had to guess) you grab the fresh board and place it carefully on the stickers.

Once you have covered the pallets with the first row side to side you place more stickers down on that row and continue to build the next.

When I'm operating my mill at a good pace it will keep the helper humping! ;D [cool]

In fact, many times I've done it and only just managed to get the stickers down when my son finishes the next pass and I've got to get back and grab the lumber so he can start the next pass!  It's actually kind of fun specially when it's YOUR lumber coming off the mill and the more efficient you are the more lumber you get for your money.

When it's all done you'll have a tall stack of lumber ready to dry (I've done 4'x4'x8' of 5/8" boards in 5 hours!) and you can just cover it with a tarp and move to the next pile! 

A tarp, however, isn't the best way to dry lumber and it is recommended that you build a 'roof' over the stack with some 2x's and plywood but I lost less then 10% drying under tarps and plastic in the spring in the Okanogan and much of the time I didn't lose anything!  SO it can be done it's just not ideal.

Anyway, I hope that helps those interested in understanding the process a bit and what to prepare for when the miller shows up.

Also, the owner is expected to help load the logs (I use cant hooks and will be using a hand winch on my mill which will make it very easy).


OlJarhead

Exciting news!  Just got invited by the WSU Extension Forester to demonstrate my sawmill at the  'Land owners field day' he's having this summer in Okanogan County.

QuoteBy the way, we will be holding a landowner field day in Okanogan County on June 22.  If you'd like to demonstrate your sawmill, it might be a good way to drum up some business.

So for those in the area who would like to see the mill in action I plan to drag it out there and bring along a nice pine log to mill on the spot.  Should be fun!

roadtripray


OlJarhead

Quote from: roadtripray on December 13, 2012, 08:45:17 PM
Awesome!  Best of luck to you on your demo.

Thanks Ray, I'm pretty stoked!

The challenge, as with any endeavor of this sort, is to get customers and nothing works better then exposure!

Of course, I have to survive until June but I think we can do it and by then I ought to have even more experience with the mill :)

rick91351

Sounds like a good deal to me.  I have several - several thousand feet milled every year.  Most the time I just have it fallen, skidded, loaded and sawed by the same guy.  Once in a while I will fall and buck them up but my guy would just as soon do it himself.  He is so particular about how it has to be.... well with good cause.

Do you sharpen your blades yourself?  My guy has been sending them out and he is grumbling mightily.       
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.


OlJarhead

I send mine out because it's only $7/blade but I can understand someone not liking that if they have a LOT of them to do....someone running 3 or 4 or more blades a day could be spending a lot of funds on sharpening but most pros that I've spoken with pay for the unlimited service instead which is a lot cheaper -- though I understand you have to do a lot of milling to make it pay.

OlJarhead

Just got my axle in!  Took 6 or 8 weeks but finally arrived.

Now the trailer can finally be built and customized for the mill!  Things should get exciting from here on out!

OlJarhead


Coming along with the new trailer :)  This is an older pic (I need some new ones) but wanted to post here anyway.

Got a call to do a logging truck load of logs for a rancher about 90 miles away :)  Can't wait to get working it!

NM_Shooter

That looks great!  Congrats on the job.  Let us know how it goes.

"Officium Vacuus Auctorita"

OlJarhead

Thanks!

I'm hoping to get it bolted down this weekend (lots of drilling to do) and then the big test will be getting the mill head back up on the rails and loading a log onto the deck.

Have to get the winch set up and also work out the details on my new (in my head still) log clamp :)

But luckily this big job isn't until late April early May so I have some time to sort it.