Going through the permitting process is HELL, especially for a cabin on an off-grid mountain with about six people living on it. Submitted the plans after Christmas, correspondence and calls so far include:
1. From Environmental Health: Water sample is OK, but no Pumpers Report for the septic system, so we got a big "X" there. Sent them what I had, but the pumping was done as a condition of sale, so I didn't order it--so NO copy available. Apparently in our little community there are lots of people who do this, so just making a couple of calls won't help. I thought this stuff was recorded somewhere. Can't they do a little legwork? I'm 3,000 miles away in Florida.
2. From Plans Review: They can't understand my changes, so they want me to hire an architect. I called the Plan Review department before I submitted the plans and told them what I was doing. They said it sounded O.K. THEN. So, I'm getting a quote from an architect who submits about 60 plans to that county every year. I don't have a price yet, but I'm sure there are more than a couple of zeroes involved. I have an "Incomplete Submission," so it's dead in the water until they're happy with the plans.
3. Geotechnical Survey needs a cover letter/update. The guy who did it hasn't returned calls or emails. At least he isn't the one who died--but I'm sure that's why he's so busy.
4. Structural Engineer--they say he didn't deal with vertical stress or foundation issues, and his report won't fly. Don't know whether to ask him to restamp the redrawn plans and do the needed calculations, or pay out another $500 or so bucks to someone else. I assumed that if you were state licensed, engineering is engineering. I guess not.
5. From the Fire Marshall (sent Certified and Registered Mail, no less) Apparently my private 1/4 mile road isn't up to fire code standards for fire trucks to access (no 10 x 30 turnout so the trucks can pass, etc. etc., etc.), so I need to put in an Automatic Sprinkler System that must be designed by a pipefitter. They have to measure the flow from our water tank up on the hill--all kinds of other crazy stuff. Plus all those pipes will look awful with the open beam design of the Victoria. This is a brand new requirement. The Fire Marshall (and other county employees) hasn't deigned to call me back in ten days. Apparently he's going to be removed from his position, which will only help me if they remove these new requirements too.
We'd almost consider moving into the travel trailers on the property and building a couple of under 200 sq foot structures (if that is still permitted), and eventually sneakily enclosing the 45 x 14 two story pole barn, BUT we are required to remove the trailers by January 1 2010 because of a new law that went into effect after we bought the property!
Talk at me here. I'm bummed. (but soldiering on) :(
I hate to say it but if you want this built you may need to hire a local contractor to walk your plans through. Maybe you can work a deal with him to be construction manager and let you do most of the work. Western states seem to be the worst about this sort of permitting hassles. Doesn't seem like they want this house built. I'm not dealing with permitting on mine thank goodness but I'm having fun with the hiway department the power company and the rural water district. Almost makes me want to go off grid just to spite these jerks. If you really want this done you'll need to play their game sorry to say.
Wow, can't really give you any advice, but "I feel your pain, Creative!" What a bummer - nothing like [frus] [frus]
Well, I hope things start going smoother for you - it is like that don't want the little guy to build, so they make it so difficult to do anything - what a lot of crummy regulations! >:( no wonder people are tempted to build without permits, etc ::) heh
Quote from: ScottA on February 01, 2008, 12:36:32 PM
I hate to say it but if you want this built you may need to hire a local contractor to walk your plans through. Maybe you can work a deal with him to be construction manager and let you do most of the work. Western states seem to be the worst about this sort of permitting hassles. Doesn't seem like they want this house built. I'm not dealing with permitting on mine thank goodness but I'm having fun with the hiway department the power company and the rural water district. Almost makes me want to go off grid just to spite these jerks. If you really want this done you'll need to play their game sorry to say.
I'm hoping to accomplish the same with the local architect. We'll see, though. Obviously I feel uncomfortable about making any assumptions at this point, since not one thing I've done so far has been acceptable. And, by the way, we built our own house in Tampa, Florida in the 80's, so I didn't go into this as a total greenie.
Quote from: Sassy on February 01, 2008, 12:38:25 PM
Wow, can't really give you any advice, but "I feel your pain, Creative!" What a bummer - nothing like [frus] [frus]
Well, I hope things start going smoother for you - it is like that don't want the little guy to build, so they make it so difficult to do anything - what a lot of crummy regulations! >:( no wonder people are tempted to build without permits, etc ::) heh
We can hope that all the (fill in your own impolite word) will happen during the permitting process and construction will go smoother. I keep thinking about my creek and waterfalls and impossibly starry sky........
It doesn't matter how much you know about building. The local guy will be able to bypass alot of these hoops just because he knows the people involved. They won't ask him as many questions as they will you.
Yeah, we went through that in Florida. They are harder on owner/builders, for sure.
I'm bringing in my "crew" from Florida--my son who does foundations (and everything else), and our good friend the framing carpenter, also a jack of all trades. By the way, the labor is essentially FREE, travel expenses only. But I'll search out some locals in the meantime, and can meet them when I go out to finalize materials in April.
Just got the quote from the architect. $5500!!! Understand, all decisions have been made. I think I'm being charged as much as if I was starting from scratch. He says my stairs don't meet code (that's why I changed the plans to begin with), and my original engineering is no good and needs to be scrapped.
This is criminal -- a person cannot build shelter for their family, a right as guaranteed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights, without paying off the criminal extortion artists. I don't care if it is for the good of the entire world and everyone will die if the bureaucratic mafia is not paid off. It is still criminal extortion. America is going to hell in a handbasket.
$5500 sounds pretty steep to sign off on an already designed house. I'd get a couple more quotes if I was you. And Glen's right...this is criminal.
BOY, do I agree. But the problem is, I still need to be ready to build in May, because all the other wheels are in motion. Any suggestions other than going postal? I want to start posting pretty pictures on Countryplans!!!
I will OF COURSE talk to other architects.
May be worth a trip up there to handle it personally. Try to be a PITA in a nice manner if you can pull that off. That's all I can suggest.
Sounds like tipical West Side of the Mountain Run Around! That is how they treat you in King County Land of the Librals who have all these different rules to get money out of you. That is one of the reason I moved to the East Side of the Mountains. I can get a permit in a few months complete with approved plans and if I went over there it could take up to a year and so many different people having there fingers in the pot it isn't funny. They have more voted in regulations to stop development it isn't funny anymore!! Worst part is there is so many people cramed into a little section of Washington State they try to control the rest of the 95% land mass. I live in the biggest County (Okanogan) but we only have a tiny voting recourse to work with. It is mass people that count living in little appartments, condos and city lots not the farmers, cattle ranchers and such living on 40-1000 acres of land. One day it will collasp in on them and they will never know what hit them. Mark
If you saw the community I'm moving to you would be even more amazed at all the red tape! Six hundred mostly seasonal residents, and that's in the developed part of the community. Trailers and crappy houses. It's just starting to go upscale, and I think that's why I'm being "victimized" here. I'm on a gated mountain that's 99% woods. The aerial view of our place is astounding--it's the only cleared area you can see. You can't see my house from any angle, even in the winter, and I am the only one on the mountain(out of maybe six people) with septic and a well. A narrow 1/4 mile road that's going to make construction tricky is the only way in. No one else will ever live on that road. Its as much as 200 feet up on one side and 100 feet down to a gorge with a creek on the other. This is just crazy.
I looked at your Okanagon area too, by the way---really nice. But we're older and my husband has some medical issues so I needed to be closer to civilization.
Quote from: glenn kangiser on February 02, 2008, 01:06:40 PM
May be worth a trip up there to handle it personally. Try to be a PITA in a nice manner if you can pull that off. That's all I can suggest.
We did that in late October. Talked to a number of people in the building department, went over the paperwork, and thought we were in O.K. shape. Yeah, that worked.
First, let me state that I believe I am well qualified to make the following remarks. I was a senior hydrologist with the MN Dept of Natural Resources for over 10 years, and ran the statewide Shoreland Management Program for nearly a decade. Upgraded the state minimum standards for shorelands, and helped write the state septic system standards.
Your property is in Mason County, which is, in my opinion, the root of the problem. Much of the development that county has allowed over the years on its lakes, and especially along the Hood Canal (really a fjord), is atrocious. It all relies upon onsite sewage systems, many of which are little more than seepage pits. Most of the lots are way too small to have room for a properly functioning septic tank and drainfield. Large numbers of them were built many years ago as seasonal recreation cabins and have now been converted to year-round residential use. In some areas folks bought narrow strips of land between a road and the water, and then hauled and dumped large amounts of fill into the water to create "buildable" sites. Hood Canal has, in recent years, experienced several significant fish kills due to low levels of dissolve oxygen in the water at certain times. A qualified, multi-agency group of experts that looked into the problem concluded that malfunctioning sewage systems were most likely the greatest contributer to the problem. The County's response has been to call for more studies, and to crack down more on new development. Thorough evaluation of the thousands of existing systems, and mandatory upgrading has not happened. Local politics and fear of losing tax revenues play a major role.
Other background matters at play here, in addition to the DO problem, are dwindling runs of salmon, resident orcas (killer whales) in trouble, and the close proximity of Olympic National Park. Also, Lake Cushman is a reservoir on a branch of the Skokomish River, which is the most flood-prone river in WA. Additionally this area experienced a fairly destructive recent earthquake (Nisqually Quake of '01). There is now mounting pressure from the federal and state governments on the local governments to do a better job. Unfortunately that is a big change to make for a county that has a history of lax environmental concern and management. Doesn't surprise me that they are jacking you around with your plans. After all, you don't vote there!
My advice is to document all your contacts with the County well, and spend some $'s on a good attorney rather than more architects. A good lawsuit would cost the County real $'s, and maybe some bad PR. I've seen even the threat of one work many times before in similar situations.
Ok, I'm stepping down now from my soapbox. Keep plugging away with your plans, and when you get stepped on, bite back!
Steve
Wow, hadn't even considered an attorney. And you're certainly right about all the water issues in our area. Ran into it all when I got the property because of Dow Creek. If the structures, well and septic, etc. weren't grandfathered in, the property couldn't have been developed. I had to get several reports right up front that documented my ability to build there. That's also why we'll always be the only people on that road.
I love my mountain, my creek, my woods, and the various creatures that live there. I want to clean up the tires and other trash that have washed down from above (mostly from ill-advised shoreline fixes) and keep my property as pristine and natural as possible. iT'S WORTH THE FIGHT. MANY THANKS for the heads up. Keep that soapbox handy.
An interesting update.
I have been talking to everyone and his brother after doing a google search. This is what I've come up with so far.
A company in Washington will get my plans ready for permitting for a flat fee of $1,600.00. They guarantee acceptance. I can look at 3-D walkthroughs and get other info by using his program Autodesk, which I've already downloaded. Communication is important, as I'm 3,000 miles away.
Ross Chapin has a house, the Egret, http://www.rosschapin.com/Plans/Cottage/Egret/Egret.html that is already engineered for Washington. It's a little smaller than my version of the Victoria, but the layout works for my property. I've contacted the engineer to see if the engineering meets my snow load requirements. If so, I may go with this at a total cost of maybe $1,500.00.
I also am waiting for a reply from a company that designs your project and also provides trusses and other materials, supposedly at a good savings.
The septic issue is still up in the air, but I'm working on it.
Hmmm. Lots of this sounds familiar with what I experienced here on the Oregon coast. I can sympathize. I guess my advantage is living 2 hrs by car away.
I am doing the VC and am planning on putting in sprinklers. I dealt successfully with septic, architectural changes, and engineering. I am not an expert on any of these, but I was able to get my plans successfully submitted.
Be aware of my experience with putting up smaller structures (accessory structures) that do not fall under permit requirements. I started putting up a 180 sf builders shed but the county made me remove it because I didn't have a permit to build a primary residence yet. Accessory means accessory to something!
If it is helpful to chat via the phone to discuss a strategy, I am amenable... I am three hours away and could potentially do some sleuthing around for you.
mt
mt
Pat has certainly had a steep challenge here.
Thanks for all the insights and alternatives suggested by other members.
What's the saying??? "It's always darkest just before... it goes completely black"?
Thanks, everyone! I get the best ideas here, and support, and humor, and everything. COUNTRYPLANS FOREVER!
Quote from: John Raabe on February 05, 2008, 02:51:04 PM
"It's always darkest just before... it goes completely black"?
I like that one. It goes with my other favs.
"Time wounds all heals" and
"When all was said and done, much was said but little was done".
More great stuff--
AND ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH PASSED OUR SEPTIC SYSTEM!!!!!!!! The paperwork is on the way.
I feel for you and the red tape. Up here in rural Fairbanks, it is the wild west of building. There is no building department outside the actual city limits of Fairbanks. I built my entire project without one muncipal building inspector nitpicking my work. I did hire a private inspector because the bank required it and for resale.
Quote from: akdreamin on February 06, 2008, 12:29:03 AM
I feel for you and the red tape. Up here in rural Fairbanks, it is the wild west of building. There is no building department outside the actual city limits of Fairbanks. I built my entire project without one muncipal building inspector nitpicking my work. I did hire a private inspector because the bank required it and for resale.
I guess the lesson is, don't just assume that being off grid and in a community with small cabins means that you aren't under the same rules as people with Mcmansions.
And the rules can change quickly. We talked to a couple of other people building cabins there, and their experience was much more laid back.
Here on the Oregon coast, the county in which I am building has gotten much more stringent in examining and approving plans. Like with most things, the reason is recent experience:
The spate of storms the past decade have eroded the cliffs on which homes sit. People used not to build on the cliffs but now they do. And when the land below erodes, they want relief in the form of the county shoring up the area below with rip-rap, etc. So with more building, the types of poor choices is more pronounced.
Also, on hilly areas, people/counties are finding that septic systems are failing and this is a public health issue. People downslope tend to want to make sure that those upslope don't create a hazard.
Rural areas are experiencing real building pressures, and they are doing the best they can to accommodate and grow.
I can understand why areas that have been hit with earthquakes, mudslides, hurricanes, floods, and other natural disasters, as well as areas with environmental issues, are tightening up on regulations. But so many aspects of building do not impact the environment nearly as badly as the owner creating a "stump farm" from a beautiful natural habitat, and that IS allowed. And modern ways, code compliant ways, are not the only way to solve most of these problems.
When we built our two story "saltbox" on stilts in Florida, the inspectors were all over the reverse cantilever design, complained that one trap wouldn't hold water (my husband tore it apart in front of the inspector to prove that it did--still had to redo it), made us redo a plumbing stack that EXACTLY recreated on that had just passed across town, etc., etc.--and yet didn't pick up that the guy doing the framing made the upper open deck over the bedroom slant toward the house. We eventually had to replace the whole back of the house after a series of failed fixes on that one, including the support beam for the second floor.
In Florida, building standards changed drastically after hurricanes devastated several areas. But just going with hip roofs, having doors that open out, reinforcing garage doors that can fail and allow wind into the structure, and making a few other simple design changes would probably have done about as much.
This could be a long discussion, but I guess the bottom line is there is more than one way to skin a cat, and we're stuck with just one.
An update. I'm working with a draftsman who doesn't really get what I'm trying to do, but with a little help from other professionals should be able to deliver what I need. Hope to have new plans by the end of this week or so, and will try to post them here for comment.
Hang in there and it will happen!!! The power of positive thinking works. It's very frustrating when they treat you like you are trying to do something so wrong.
Seems like the inspectors, etc. should be there to help considering the fees they charge
for permits and inspections.
Mt. Don is right about the east and west side of Washington state but we are all falling under the same
rules these days. We currently live on the coast but are building in NE Washington.
Keep dreaming of your view and hopefully all this will soon be a bad memory as you sit on the deck or porch
of your new cabin and enjoy the peace.
GOOD LUCK!!
Thanks, Deertracks. I'm trying to be as philosophical as possible about the whole process. Some problems can actually be solutions. For example, when the designer changed the living room beams from 2 x 8's to 2 x 12's, it brought the steps further into the living room. But, at the same time, it might have made it possible to put a 1/2 bath on the skybridge with a small shed dormer, which really dresses up that side of the house, and to open up the back loft to the wing loft and turn it into a spectacular space. Don't know if this will work, and am waiting with crossed fingers for his response.
I am thinking alot about living on the property, and that's what makes it all worthwhile.
Things are moving along. I've got a contact "on the ground" in Washington who's going to try to make the sprinkler requirement go away. The fire marshal of Mason County hasn't called me back six weeks after the registered letter arrived! I guess you can't really call him a "public servant."
My designer is getting on board with the plan changes. No more post in the kitchen! 4 x 8 beams and a higher ceiling downstairs!
When I'm ready to post plan pictures, I might need some help. The files are too big to attach.
Is that a light at the end of the tunnel? :D
Probably just the first step in the right direction. BUT--it's a start, and hopefully a trend.
Quote from: CREATIVE1 on February 29, 2008, 04:39:10 PM
The files are too big to attach.
Too big as in computer
file size (KB, MB), or as in
inches x inches or
pixels x pixels??
[... and "attach" as in using the "additional options" in writing a message? That's disabled to conserve forum disk space as well as bandwidth and resulting costs. Image hosting services like Photobucket are the way to go.]The simplest posting method is the same as for photos. Photobucket.com is a simple to use hosting service. You upload the image file (JPG, or other) and paste the IMG tag here in your message. Photobucket can reduce the size of large images down to 1024 x 768 pixels or smaller.
General Photobucket Tutorial (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=3512.0)
Tutorial Section Specific to Resizing in Photobucket (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=3512.msg38932#msg38932)
If it's the disk size of the image that's the problem, that can be remedied in various ways. A Photobucket upload can help as large files are often also large dimensionally.
If you are a windows user, emailing images to yourself can also be used to reduce image size.
Email Photos to Reduce Image Size Tutorial (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=3512.msg39976#msg39976)
Creative has asked me to post these drawings for comment.
I'll do that and she can take it from there. :)
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/mainfloorPH.jpg)
Main Floor
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/upperfloorPH.jpg)
Upper Floor
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/elevsPH.jpg)
Elevations
Nice work on an interesting evolution. Feels quite spacious.
And to think, this all started because I was required to put in code stairs and also needed a centralized wood stove! I couldn't made the main wing much deeper because I needed room between the house and my 14 x 45 foot two story pole barn to drive to the the building we intend to use as a garage in the winter. The front of the property is a bit soggy, so we couldn't build there. All changes were site and regulation driven.
Some notes:
The back and wing lofts (office, craft room) are totally open to each other to the ceiling, with the wing loft stopping at about 8 feet into the wing (den). This creates a "light well" in the wing, which will actually be a library. We have about 20,000 books, to be reduced somewhat before moving.
Knee walls are about 4 1/2 feet.
The gable end window (right elevation) is supposed to be rectangular. We intend to trellis out that end (horizontally) with matching detail on the porch in the Front Elevation. Too plain otherwise.
The Left Elevation backs up to a steep grade that goes up 200 feet. The bathroom looks out toward a wall of ferns. The tub is a six footer, by the way, probably an old clawfooted one.
I want a casement window over the utility porch on the Left Elevation so that we can eventually build a bridge to the upper part of our property, which does have some beautiful areas to sit and walk.
The diamond window is too big.
There is a coat closet under the stairs, pushed back as far a possible (maybe three steps back). Need that closet for the plumbing.
The 2 x 6 tongue and groove floor/ceiling is continuous into the wing, with wide spaced 4 x 8 beams throughout. This isn't showing here.
The downstairs ceilings are higher than eight feet, but I'm not sure by how much.
We want to use wood and log trim inside, and indoor windows where possible for light and ventilation. The big window walls in the "L" (front elevation) are facing south, by the way.
I might also want to mix siding to highlight architectural features. Shakes, lap siding, board and batten. Ideas?
Comments especially needed on windows in the wing. The upstairs windows are fixed (don't open). (My designer likes absolute symmetry, have been fighting him all the way.)
Creative, here's a pic of our clawfoot tub - I ended up getting the special type of tub that is insulated & keeps the water much warmer than cast iron. I looked & looked at tubs - prices etc - this one is only a 5 ft tub - 6 ft would have been much better - we don't have a heater in the bathroom so that's why I didn't go for the cast iron, even though I ended up taking showers in the other bathroom in the winter.
It's a Victoria & Albert tub... Costco also carries clawfoot tubs - the 6 ft
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010265.jpg)
http://www.englishtubs.com/shropshire.php
Very nice. I was thinking along the same lines, depending on cost, etc. Cast iron IS cold.
Also looking at Chinese cypress tubs, but I'm not sure how long they'd last. Also, side faucets and all kinds of fancy stuff (but not at fancy prices).
A budget cabin that lives like a woodland palace is the goal!
Quote from: CREATIVE1 on March 04, 2008, 12:24:55 PM
A budget cabin that lives like a woodland palace is the goal!
That's what I say... :) now, getting DH to agree - he thinks rustic & I mean RUSTIC is just fine :D
Sounds like a MAN to me. ;D Mine is rolling his eyes at all the details, thinks I have psychological problems. But you should've seen him when I pulled out the 3D walkthrough, which is a wow-wow-wowee.
Quote from: Sassy on March 04, 2008, 11:11:12 AM
Creative, here's a pic of our clawfoot tub - I ended up getting the special type of tub that is insulated & keeps the water much warmer than cast iron. I looked & looked at tubs - prices etc - this one is only a 5 ft tub - 6 ft would have been much better - we don't have a heater in the bathroom so that's why I didn't go for the cast iron, even though I ended up taking showers in the other bathroom in the winter.
It's a Victoria & Albert tub... Costco also carries clawfoot tubs - the 6 ft
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010265.jpg)
http://www.englishtubs.com/shropshire.php
WOW That's looks so cool like right out of the Old West Days! I love the natural look and decor you picked out. Mark
Gotta be careful here, Mark. A man was involved with that too. OK -- I admit it-- just the building out of junk part. d*
Quote from: glenn kangiser on March 04, 2008, 02:09:51 PM
Gotta be careful here, Mark. A man was involved with that too. OK -- I admit it-- just the building out of junk part. d*
I would love to get a bunch of those planks for my cabin! Over Laping them like that worked out great for the iregular edges. Your giving me ideas. Mark
Sassy---- Is that your tub in your bathroom, with a rocking chair no less? I thought the picture was from some fancy catalog. Good job.
I like rustic, as long as your don't lose too much skin when you brush against a wall while stumbling to the bathroom in the middle of the night.
By the way, I used to have a bathroom that was 4 feet wide and twelve feet long, with a toilet at the end. I saw an article suggesting using foil as wallpaper to brighten up a room, so I started glueing foil to the walls and ceiling. WELL, got to the area above the shower and saw two bolts of electricity coming down. I had on rubber shoes, so I just ended up at the bottom of the shower with numb arms crying my eyes out and then going for the ice cream. After that, if you touched the walls (two feet apart) while going to the john, you got ZAPPED. A great party trick!! We finally disconnected the whole room and hung a trouble light over the sink..... :o
We call them photography accent lights. I have wired the bathrooms though. Part way. :)
rofl rofl That was really some decorating, Creative! Glenn used to try to shock me with a magneto - he said it would help my sore muscles :o he'd wind it way up - I'd chicken out & make him shock himself - he acted like he didn't even feel it. I finally got the nerve to let him try it on me - wow, it really had a punch! I didn't let him try that anymore - he thought it was funny :o
Yes, that is my bathroom. I have to choose all the furniture & fixtures as lots of times Glenn thinks "it's not necessary" - but I like things to look a certain way - I really liked the wood siding, the way he did it. He was going to build a shower in there but I didn't know when he'd ever get around to it as there was so many other things to do so I decided a clawfoot tub would look good in there. Through the years I've shopped for antique furniture, too. The chest is actually a side board I think you would call it or a buffet for the dining room - I have the table & chairs in the kitchen/den area but this worked out good for the bathroom, & yes, the BR is big enough for a rocking chair - it was in the bedroom but was in the way. On the wall you don't see, there is a big built in shelf for books, linens etc that is actually built into the wall & is underground - gives me extra room & then a shelf on top of that where I have lots of family pix. Don't know if that explanation made sense [noidea' ??? I have towel racks on the wall next to the tub & also put brass outlet covers for the switches & plugs. I didn't buy the fancy faucets for the tub - the shower head is from Costco & the faucet is actually a brass faucet normally used for the garden to attach a hose to ::) (standard extended nipple hose bibb) but I liked that better than the one Glenn was going to install. The faucets that are custom made - those ones that fit on the side, are 100's of $$$. DH thinks I have psychological problems too... :P heh
BTW, I was telling Glenn we needed to finish the wiring in places - the bedroom & bathroom are wired, though :)
Thanks, Mark!
The bathroom is big enough for a rocker because it has three boat docks for a roof. Maybe I should buy a boat now. ::)
That bathroom stuff was fun, but back to the nitty-gritty. I AM CURSED!!! Tracy at permitting says I'm "having an adventure", but NOOOOOOOOOO, I don't think so.
After going round and round with my designer, I finally got something in DWG format (opens in Autodesk) and sent it to one of my clients in the trade for review. Among many problems, the first and second floor don't exactly fit together, to the extent that the pesky steps I redesigned the house to accommodate are slightly out in the yard if I overlay the PDF's. My client says the dimensions are off as much as 18 inches, depending on which point you start with. I think I have to fire him and start all over. That's what I get for being in a hurry.
He has about $800 of my money, and apparently nothing he's done is usable.
Oh dang!! How could anyone, other than a novice, do that!?? d* d*
It must be making you crazy!
>:(
I would like to get even, but have to put all my energies into making this work somehow. Tune in tomorrow ???
Is this an example of: You can get it good, fast, or cheap. Pick two. ???
Seriously, is there a way to post the DWG file for some of us to look at?
If the software will allow saving a file in JPG form that would be easy. The other way would be to do a screen shot and save as a JPG image file.
Irfanview will allow viewing of DWG files with a added plugin. Then that image could be saved to JPG.
Works but not everyone has or knows how to do all that.
I have been using it since it first started. Great software package.
You need to download both the OS and the Add-ins.
http://www.irfanview.com/ (http://www.irfanview.com/)
I guess I can try to copy the files somehow, or forward them to someone who knows how. My client also put together a file of problems, making notes on his drawings. I really can't figure all her drawings out,especially the overlay. I was going to get another opinion before doing anything drastic. My son is looking at everything tomorrow, and since he sounds 6'5" over the phone (he is), I'm going to let him talk to the guy.
By, the way, he wasn't cheap (that was the down payment), but he said he could have it done in two weeks. THAT WAS IN FEBRUARY.
He was also the only designer who didn't insist on copyrighting the plans and charging me for any changes down the line..
Sorry about the flippant comment about good, fast, and cheap. I would be happy to take a look at any files you care to share. You can email me directly (I think my email is visible to registered folks) If not, send me a message through the countryplans email.
I wanted to have a good old architecture experience with my VC plans, so I took John's drawings, made a copy, then took trace and pens and went to it. Then I taped those onto big sheets (seven instead of the original three) and made my sets for the plans folks.
I know the AutoCad and other drawing program (home architect 3d, etc) are slick and interesting, and I have used them for a couple of smaller efforts over the years. But even after taking my plans and inputting the stuff into a few programs, I found I had a much better sense of my project with the hand drawing.
Enough of the ramble, I hope you get the plans you need in a format that helps you move forward.
mt
Thanks, Mike. I'll get the files out in the morning. Florida time!
You have email.
mt
I sent you the DWG files. Let me know if you also need the PDF's.
Fired the designer. Going to try to get my money back through Paypal. Wish I could get back the lost time.
Hired a client of mine in Florida. Will be posting questions here if she has any. Maybe SOON I can post some good news about my progress. I feel like I have a big ol' rain cloud over my head.
Best of luck on everything.
Maybe that will improve things.
An update, finally. Have a draft of the plans, had concerns, asked some questions. Got thoroughly dissed. :( ( I'm not a professional, but I am a darn smart and experienced amateur, having built one house that I designed, with reverse cantilevers and other cool features, and even done a project in the historic district for a client that so impressed the City of Tampa that they wanted me to work with more.) I am also being told that my "crew" (years of experience, at least 15 each, all over the country) needs to be replaced by a "contractor" because the questions we're asking are just flat dumb, pretty much. Let's just say my son better not run into her at Home Depot anytime soon. Questions/concerns as follows, short list.
1. There is a general explanation of stair code, including spiral stairs and lots of stuff that doesn't apply, and a cross section of the house with the stairs, no measurements, but NO separate stair cross section, and a refusal to supply it. Isn't this standard? It's on all the plans I've purchased. I've emailed the Plans Examiner and hope he replies soon one way or the other.
2. Joists for the second floor are mostly 6' x 8' beams up to 36 inches on center. The floor joist written section just mentions standard joist sizes, and there is no cross section of the 2' x 6" flooring or mention of it anywhere on the plans. Asked about this and got attitude. Shouldn't schedules be specific to the plans, not some general engineering?
3. Electrical plan shows heaters not in the main living space, even though I'm required to have them despite the woodstove which doesn't change the requirement for a whole house system. Exhaust fans aren't shown in the bathrooms, laundry, and kitchen, and she says they aren't necessary because we have windows so she's not changing it. I sent her Washington State code, which I'm pretty sure says we just flat need this. She says electrician will work this out in the field--but why should it be wrong on the plans?
4. I know she's changed the engineering to account for her taste for lowered ceilings, and after a good fight will just have to deal with the engineer in Washington directly on these issues. Goodbye wide open spaces, maybe.
5. Foundation--I don't have a plan of exactly what we intend to build. Shouldn't I? The cross section shows the foundation dug out and the footers resting on that, with dirt piled up on the outside. This isn't what I want. I want the footer dug out only. We have no place to put the dirt, and can't easily haul it out. She is saying that these are all things decided on site, and again criticized us for not understanding how to work with plans.
There's lots of other stuff, but my main question is: How would you go about getting her to change details if they hold up permitting?
By contract I've agreed to pay her in full when the plans are completed. ???
Creative1,
By contract I've agreed to pay her in full when the plans are completed.
In my opinion the plans arn't done until you agree and sign off. They are working for you make them give you what you want or tell them you will take your work to some one else. I hate to say sue but thats the way todays world works >:( I hope you get this worked out.
It sounds like the person your working with is either new or set in bad ways.
Good luck.
Larry
Set in bad ways. Goes on the attack when she's questioned. Not the way to do business.
By the way, we need more smileys, like one butting its head against the wall or hitting him/her self with a hammer. Then I could add lots more of them to my posts----------
Quote from: CREATIVE1 on April 23, 2008, 10:26:12 AM
By contract I've agreed to pay her in full when the plans are completed. ???
Ghaaa. I agree with the others. The plans are completed when you say they're completed. Taking perfectly good plans, turning them into a piece of carp, giving you attitude, and then presenting a bill isn't good enough.
Not to be a wet blanket, but how does the contract define completed?
If it doesn't that might be open to interpretation.
I would think reasonable middle ground would be, when the plans are accepted and approved by the building department having jurisdiction in the area the building is to be constructed.
It doesn't really specify what "completed" means, so I'm going to go forward as if it means successfully getting through permitting. I have some advice here, and an attorney client who may be willing to escrow the money so that she doesn't try to go after me legally.
Got another lovely email in the meantime, part of which I've attached here.
Pat,
The problem is that you or Brian do not understand how to interpret blueprints. But I do not have time to train you in understanding what needs to be on the drawings and how to interpret them. The questions that are being asked are so basic that I am worried about Brian building this.
Yeah, I need this.
It gets better. With the plans almost done, she quit, citing all the questions and that it was just a draft, etc. etc. Well, this is great. I don't have time to start over. Any ideas? I have an "almost" set of plans needing engineering and some details. By the way, she quit AFTER I told her there were no more questions or comments and please go ahead and finish (I really did say please).
I think the contract binds her to finishing the plans. My husband wrote her an email that addresses this. Tune in tomorrow.....
That's too bad. :(
When one party to a contract is crapping out on their end of the deal, the contract is then only as good as the amount of money the other party wants to throw at the lawyers.
You could try reasoning, or self filing in small claims court I suppose, if reason fails.
Bad deal all 'round.
You're right about that. My only glimmer of hope here is that she sees from the email that we know the contract binds her and she sucks it up and gets it done. In the meantime, I've contacted people I know in Mason County to see if someone there can step in. Problem is, I only have draft plans and she hasn't provided the DWG or even PDF files. They would have to be redrawn unless they could be scanned in.
So,
>:( :( ??? :-\ to say the least.
...need a crossed fingers smiley.
G/L
Quote from: MountainDon on April 23, 2008, 10:30:58 PM
...need a crossed fingers smiley.
G/L
Great comment. Keep that humor coming. [cool]
Update-----
Hey, maybe this isn't so bad. I found an architectural firm in Washington who'll do this for a song IF I get the DWG/AutoCad files. Trying to decide the best way to do this.
WOW, Reading this thread has me grateful AGAIN that I live in an area that only the Sewer and Electrical have to be inspected. No Permits!! Yea sometimes someone will endup with a bad neighbor but hey thats America!
A neighbor just built their house, they told the contractor to build a basement 30'x40' and put a floor /roof ??? on it. When the floor was on they went in and put lawn furniture, boxes... and set-up their house. When they had it like they wanted they drew lines with paint for the walls, doors, cabs. .. While not the way I would have done it, it seems to have worked for them!!
It's absolutely thrilling to be an example of where not to build and how not to go about it, but maybe I'll help someone else (or write a book). And I must say, if I ever build a house again--probably won't after this experience-- I'll check out the permitting climate thoroughly and build immediately.
If I don't get my plans redone by June, there is some stormwater thing that could also bite me on the butt to the tune of about $30,000. Along with being the first one caught in the sprinkler thing, this is just peachy. If I'd started building 2 or 3 years ago, it would have been easier.
Two or three years ago would have been easier and cheaper for most of us, permit-wise!
The fact that getting your permit in May vs. June could cost you $30,000. spells out how greedy someone
is being somewhere. Good luck with your project. Hope the building goes smooth for you once you get past
this hurdle. Will this be a full time residence for you?
Yes, Deertracks, we plan to move there when we're done. I knew the logistics of building 3,000 miles away was going to take terrific planning, but never expected to be so hung up in the beginning.
It's kinda like if you have had terrible luck, you almost feel that for the universe to stay in balance you should have a terrific experience coming up soon. I'm trying to think that way.
Trying to get the "semi-final" plans still. Apparently I am the b____ from hell. My husband's handling this now, I'm too upset to make my points.
Some questions for our most illustrious members:
Why would she ask me to return the draft before I get my original engineered plans and updated plans back? Issues brought up were correct? Trying to keep me from knowing that? Trying to delay a process that's already two months behind? Doesn't make sense to anyone I've talked to. Also, no DWG's/CAD files coming. She says someone can just "finish" this. Not really true, unless I have it hand drawn as changes/details on the original plans. CAD designers would have to start over. Am I correct about this? It's what I've heard so far.
CREATIVE1
When is the TV show don't want to miss it. :)
Is new firm in WA the 3rd person you have doing this?
Do you need a architect in WA? How did you start ,with your ideas, picture? I guess you have something in mind that is different then John's plans? There's a CAD guy at work he is a mechanical engineer who does houses on the side, has a friend who is a engineer at a truss company who will stamp his drawings. He charges $50-100 a page. Seems like someone like that maybe what you need if allowed.
Sure would like to see you post what you have so far.
Nice site by the way.
What's that storm water thing about, do you have to build a catchment basin on your site (rain garden), or is there one built off your site that you pay to use. Or is that just an additional fee for the G. Kinda see why they might want to protect that lake though.
Mike
Quote from: CREATIVE1 on April 26, 2008, 08:56:22 AM
Why would she ask me to return the draft before I get my original engineered plans and updated plans back? ............ Also, no DWG's/CAD files coming. She says someone can just "finish" this. Not really true, unless I have it hand drawn as changes/details on the original plans. .......... CAD designers would have to start over. Am I correct about this? .......
Make copies of the drafts if you can, and then just get on with the exchange. ??? I don't understand the reasoning on her part, unless it's that she's going to pull the plug when she gets her stuff back. (That's my pessimistic, what can go wrong next, dark side speaking).
She's not going to supply DWG/CAD's at all? Was that in the deal? And yes, anyone using CAD would have to start over from scratch in the computer unless they had the DWG files to begin with.
G/L
MVK
Yes the next guy is in Washington. He was recommended by EVERYONE and can probably just make notes directly on my plans, if they're any good. I already have an engineer, but he'll have to revisit a couple of changes. If I need any additional help, you will be hearing from me. Thanks. Countryplans is a great community.
The storm water issue has to do with an updated code (beyond the 1992 standards, I think) that has affected other towns nearby and is adding tremendously to construction costs. Right now I'm exempt because my new structure, including porches, driveways, etc., is less than 2,000 sf of covered ground. I'll lose this exemption if they change the law, which is rumored to possibly go into effect in either June or July. I'm hurrying to resubmit my plans before then.
My plans are much different than the original Victoria because I wanted it to be centrally heated by a wood stove and was required to have full code stairs. I've spent $1,600 (not including engineering) so far to have a set of code compliant plans with the changes, and I'm not there yet. Will post current plans later, with the help of one of the Countryplans administrators Haven't figured that all out yet.
Working title for the book? Suggestions? "The Money Pit" has already been done.
Quote
Make copies of the drafts if you can, and then just get on with the exchange. ??? I don't understand the reasoning on her part, unless it's that she's going to pull the plug when she gets her stuff back. (That's my pessimistic, what can go wrong next, dark side speaking).
She's not going to supply DWG/CAD's at all? Was that in the deal? And yes, anyone using CAD would have to start over from scratch in the computer unless they had the DWG files to begin with.
G/L
In the contract all she promised was three sets of plans. In emails, she said she would send DWG files when changes had been made. Now she is refusing to supply the DWG's, and (again) calling me an idiot for thinking I need these. I'm seeing a local architect tomorrow who will be looking over my copy of the draft to see if someone can hand draw the changes.
At the very least she's trying to delay the process, and I'll bet she wants me to sign a release before she provides anything more. Dark side makes a lot of sense. You should see the emails. Ouch.
ED: repaired tag for the quote - MD
Ah! If the DWG's were not part of the original deal I'd say she's within her rights to say no to giving them to you.
:( :(
Do you mind if I fix your quote in the above message... you've got an un-needed / in the first tag.
The syntax for tags is...
[opening tag goes here] the quoted text goes here.... [/closing tag goes here]
Please do, MountainDon. I was just trying to cut down the post so I could answer it directly, obviously don't know how.
I can see that she is within her rights on the DWG issue, but since she broke the contract and is costing me additional time and money, it seems that she could offer them to me for a couple of hundred dollars or instead of printed plans. She could just email them. Her language in one email where she quits suggests that a designer can just take over and finish the plans. Obviously she is not providing me with what I need to accomplish that.
Waiting for another nasty reply to our email asking to exchange the draft for updated drawings and my copy of the engineered plans in person so I can get on with this. Hey, you have to try.
Once again, best of luck on the outcome.
Creative, click the more button on the reply box for the smileys you need for your project. [noidea' [frus] n* [toilet] [shocked] heh [frus] [frus] [frus]
Cool! Many more smileys to come, hopefully really smiling at some point.
Well, back again. Plans being resubmitted to the Building Department, mailed this week. Geotechnical Report has been updated and submitted. I'm in contact with a pipefitter who will design the sprinkler system. In the meantime, have made some good contacts for materials. Just a couple more things to do before we sit back and see what else they don't like. (Hope I'm being pessimistic here).
The Lake Cushman Community wants elevations of the house to be submitted for approval, which I'm doing. Kinda funny, because you'd either have to trespass on our property or break down the gate 1/4 mile away to even SEE the place. ;D
How intrusive. I'd tell them.....nevermind -- I don't do well around civilization. [crz]
Hi. Got the plans and made minor changes, cleared the land and put in access, water supply, septic, power, all of which is properly permitted. We have accumulated all windows and doors, lighting, flooring, roofing, and plumbing including a complete demo kitchen from home depot (our house is so full of cabin it may explode). We applied for the building permit and was told it was a 2-3 week process, now at week 7 I finally get some action, they want an engineers stamp on the plans. The one guy to look at the plans sofar is talking $2000 to start and he says we will have to fly him over a couple of times at $500 a shot plus the flight. The fun is going out of this, right now I have help lined up and the time to get a lot of this finished. I have to figure that as soon as I return to work it will be green lights all the way. I'm tempted to buy a prefab kit (minus the items I already have) just to get the engineering and planning crap finished with. We are at least close to the property which is in the Gulf Islands near Vancouver, I don't know how you people with long distances to cover ever get this stuff done. Too many roadblocks, I need a beer.
How about walking him through wearing a pair of rubber boots for $50. Sounds like he just likes airplane rides - How can he get in touch with the site from a plane. I'd find someone else.
The "taking the fun out of it" post hit the nail on the head. Watching a house rise out of the ground and making all those creative decisions has the potential of some enjoyment. So far, the ABSOLUTE opposite is occurring. [frus] [scared] [toilet] [crz] My standard response has become, "I'm not building the Taj Mahal."
Have patience, Creative. You will be - or at least it seems they are trying to get the cost and time up there to the equivalent..
Well, there's always the book deal. [cool]
...to possibly be made into a full length feature movie. ::)
I am SO glad we didn't wait any longer to build. It seems that every day there is something new. Now the geotechnical engineer has to fill out a checklist and make comments because we are building within 50 feet of a slope. (By the way, there is no place to build on the property that is not in this situation). Now the neighbors will be contacted and given two weeks to respond. Remember, we're the ones that really can't be seen from any viewpoint. :o
We are so democratic...with private property.
You have my permission to build near the slope. Good luck with your other neighbors. d*
My mother's neighbor put in a detatched garage on his property (older area) and the borough (like a county) decided he had to redo the septic because the garage would be too close. They had it engineered and the borough told him exactly where to place it and it was followed to a "T" (btw, the only thing this borough cares about are septic systems and zoning setbacks, basically). Well, as soon as it was completed they told him he'd still have to pay the fine for it being too close to his exhisting residence, despite the fact that he put it exactly where they'd told him...the only possible place on the lot with the already exhisting house. Bunch of hooey.
Illegal if you have money,time and power enough to fight them.
Permits are approved! After 9 months of going back and forth and running into this problem and that. I had to hire another engineer if I wanted it to be built in this century, but then it sailed right through. Only problem is, I've already paid about $5,000 and we haven't started to build. About half of that is for permits. So much for my CHEAP cabin in the woods. But at this point, I'm celebrating.
Yahoo! :) :) I hear sighs of relief!!
Great - you finally got a good one. [cool]
That is still cheap. One permit I applied for for a customer here was $21000.00 with school tax but a 4500 sf house. Engineering was not included in that. That was just the county extortion fees.
Wow. Countin' my blessings that it wasn't worse. :o
So what does the final approved plan look like?
It's pretty much the same, with more engineering notes. I asked the engineer to change several windows that the designer wouldn't. There were no structural issues with any of the changes, just stubbornness. [frus] For example, I bumped out the bathroom in the Victoria to make room for a six foot tub with big glass windows on two sides. I guess modesty was an issue she couldn't get around, despite the fact that from the tub I'm looking at a steep wall going up 200 feet, covered with ferns, and we're at the end of a quarter mile gated private road. YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE THE HOUSE FROM ANY DIRECTION. If someone does look in the window, I'm getting out the gun.
I'll try to scan the plans, and see if I can attach them.
Congrats on getting approved. Bet you're ready to get started. :)
We're flying out on October 15th to see about the foundation. We really don't want to frame up the house until late spring because of the rainy weather, and also because I still have to locate materials and decide if we can afford to bring out power to the property. The electric company is doing an estimate, but we're half a mile from any lines, need our own transformer, etc, so--$$$$$.
Can't wait!!! Probably many more posts coming about the challenges of building a home 3,000 miles away.
I'll be looking forward to hearing about the electrical estimate. I was curious about our distance so I remeasured it last weekend. 0.88 mile, over the ground, rocky, slopes, and must be underground. I thought it was a little greater than that. $55K
I think it will be at least $20,000, and I don't think that includes "trenching." Luckily it only costs $300 to bring in a phone line.
On our way out to Washington in 7 short hours. Since the last post, we have approval from our community (including a big yellow sign we have to post somewhere while building) and have changed the name of our road. When we moved there, we were on Dow Mountain Road, which was fine. They then named our private road "Stull Lane". The only one who would ever like that is Mr. Stull. So we had it changed to "Watersong Way," since a noisy creek runs beside the entire length of the road, with little waterfalls on our property. [cool]
I bet you are excited. Hope things continue to look up for you.
Sounds like your on your way to making it happen. Exciting [cool]
Back again. We ran into an unexpected problem---our pole barn was leaning against a tree when we showed up. Luckily, nothing broke. It's been standing for about 25 years, but there was a record snow last year.
One of our four neighbors on the mountain had a winch, and helped us shore the thing up for now. DIDN'T CHARGE US ANYTHING, EVEN THOUGH HE USED HIS LUMBER. We've already returned the favor by helping him with his pickup truck. And he's an ex-contractor turned mountain man, so may be on our building crew.
I HUGGED that big tree that saved us from losing the barn and the trailer in the 100 foot gorge. The barn has a beautiful metal roof with trusses, but is about 25 feet tall overall with spindly 4 x 4 supports about five feet on center. We have some fixin' to do.
From the storms, our creek has a new channel and everything is sunnier down there from the cleared out trees. More waterfalls, too. And the path down to it is GONE.
Our first order of business before building the foundation is to flag the septic tank. My only reference from 1982 is a magic marker sketch!
I also have some problem with two tanks, and the RESERVE tank being the one closest to the building site. I need a grinder or something, and might need a taller foundation so the s*** flows downhill. Always something.
No one wants to send big trucks down our road as-is, and they suggest we wait until spring to regravel. Hmmm. Our building permit expires in April, but can be re-upped if there's activity. Great.
The continuing saga.........
Thanks for the very interesting update. Hope all goes well, Creative
I just read all 6 pages of this thread, wow what an ordeal. I might be caught in the same thing. I have 5 acres on Dow Mountain at 1600 feet elevation. I want to build a cabin on the only flat spot on our land but am afraid of going through what you did. I only have $5000 to build it.
Mine will be just seasonal with no water/plumbing or wiring. Do you think I'll have to do all the same things? What are the consequences if we build it and don't get a permit? You would be able to see it from the road but only by residents that had a key to the gate. We are about 2 miles from the gate.
So glad you stuck through it Creative! I hope to meet my soon to be neighbor some day, even though I'm only there on weekends.
Any updates?
Guess what? We're finally building this thing. First inspection is Monday, wish us luck. A long and involved path to get here, more about that later. Pictures too, if I can get the guys to take them. I'm helping to drive our new pickup from Florida to Washington, and then after about three days talking to suppliers and confirming deliveries, I'm flying home as our crew flies in for an ELEVEN DAY blitz to get it dried in.!!!!! Luckily they're experienced.
Quote from: ebsworj on February 04, 2009, 07:35:38 PM
I just read all 6 pages of this thread, wow what an ordeal. I might be caught in the same thing. I have 5 acres on Dow Mountain at 1600 feet elevation. I want to build a cabin on the only flat spot on our land but am afraid of going through what you did. I only have $5000 to build it.
Mine will be just seasonal with no water/plumbing or wiring. Do you think I'll have to do all the same things? What are the consequences if we build it and don't get a permit? You would be able to see it from the road but only by residents that had a key to the gate. We are about 2 miles from the gate.
So glad you stuck through it Creative! I hope to meet my soon to be neighbor some day, even though I'm only there on weekends.
We considered not getting a permit and enclosing the barn, but the property is a little too close to civilization and I didn't want to spend the rest of my life living in the 30 foot trailer if that failed. Since you can build something under 200 square feet with a loft and daylight basement unpermitted, that may be the way to go. There might be some flak about having that as your ONLY building, and Lake Cushman Maintenance Company is supposed to go through an approval process. Look at Red Sky yomes or similar, maybe the work around is to not have a "permanent" structure.
We'll be on site during the last half July.
Glad to hear things are moving, Creative. Looking forward to updates and pix.
A quick update. I'm back in Florida, but the crew has been building since July 20th. Set the ridge beams yesterday. The main beam is 24 inches deep (!!!!), so we needed a crane. They're trying to dry it in by August 3rd, and are racing against the clock during this heat wave.
Glad we have that creek--they rocked in a small area where they can just sit and splash in the water when the heat becomes overwhelming.
There are 6 full time residents on Dow Mountain, others who are there in the summer only. We have been welcomed with food, help, and offers of assistance. Last night the couple on the top of the mountain treated the guys to a salmon dinner. Pizzas and treats of every description have been brought in. Wow! I can't wait to be part of this community.
I have some cell phone pictures that were emailed to me. I'll attempt to attach them later today.
Pictures!
(https://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac187/PMHITE/house07282_edited.jpg)
(https://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac187/PMHITE/house07281_edited.jpg)
[cool]
Glad you finaly got it out of the ground. Congratulations!
Way off the ground! This is one tall and massive house.
Looks great, Creative. What an ordeal .... great that it's moving along.
Quote from: CREATIVE1 on July 31, 2009, 05:11:56 PM
(https://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac187/PMHITE/house07282_edited.jpg)
You have some point load issues under that ridge that should be addressed before any more load is placed on the ridge.
Ya it's been hot.
Point load issues? Could you clarify please?
They've put in the rafters now, but I don't know what else. Everything is being tarped before the crew leaves on Tuesday.
Quote from: CREATIVE1 on August 01, 2009, 01:09:16 PM
Point load issues?
That beam is a load / weight , on the left hand side it appears to be sitting on the top plates with no header below it , below that on the ground floor level there is no header in the opening , so your transferring the beam load weight onto your 2nd floor system / joist.
Could you clarify please?
All the weight of the beam and the roof structure is the load , in a ridge beam situation the "point / points / ends of the beam, are the "point loads"! Your not transferring as much load to the outer walls like you would be if that was a "normal" ridge board.
They've put in the rafters now, but I don't know what else. Everything is being tarped before the crew leaves on Tuesday.
I'd be concerned if you left all that weight for long period of time that things would sag , or worst case , collapse / break if it left to long in that unsupported condition.
Or maybe I'm missing something / not seeing the support headers to hold it all up?
There is a continuous header/gluelam (16 footer) downstairs at one of the gables, a gluelam over a door opening on another. Next time I get cell service, I'll ask some questions. Should be OK, engineered, but NEVER hurts to double check.
Quote from: CREATIVE1 on August 01, 2009, 03:09:13 PM
There is a continuous header/gluelam (16 footer) downstairs at one of the gables, a gluelam over a door opening on another.
Should be OK, engineered, but NEVER hurts to double check.
So there s GLB in the floor system / on top of the top plate in that left hand gable! That would do it.
What directly under the beam on the left hand end in the photo?
I did see the header on the right hand end , so it's a GLB?
The issue about the engineering is would be sure IF all the components are in you'd be fine , but as your in mid-build maybe everything is not installed yet! Hopefully your fine , not the best photo's to be judging on.
G/L PEG
I talked to my son, he says there are gluelams and headers in the wing. Of course, we also have bracing wall panels because we're in an earthquake area.
The lead guy has 15 years of framing experience, and considering the lack of detail on the plans, this was really necessary. Our contact at the lumberyard where we bought the framing package noticed a lack of detail and pointed out several major problem areas before we started to build. He sent extra lumber so we could work it out. We ordered more gluelams (spanning the entire 16 feet instead of just the windows on one gable end) and have used most of the extra lumber.
Maybe the reason that I had such difficulties with the contractor drawing my plans (who quit in a huff) is because we were asking questions she couldn't answer. The stock answers were, that's decided on site, and my crew is obviously incompetent if they're asking these questions.
My husband's flying home next Saturday, with two cameras with pictures! I'll post those along with elevations and floor plans at that time. The windows and construction details were changed in the final plan, to what I always had in mind. If you know what you want, don't choose an egotistical designer!
Quote from: CREATIVE1 on August 02, 2009, 09:14:57 AM
Maybe the reason that I had such difficulties with the contractor drawing my plans (who quit in a huff) is because we were asking questions she couldn't answer. The stock answers were, that's decided on site, and my crew is obviously incompetent if they're asking these questions.
On site is the last place you want decisions made - the result is usually expensive. I don't even want the framers to have to do math so I dimension everything. Sure, some crews view plans more as "suggestions" and there may be a regional method or material that is more common, but blaming others for incomplete work is inexcusable. It is my belief that the person that can save or cost you the most money on a project is the designer. A good one will pay for themselves by mitigating errors, reduction of construction time (due to clarity) and efficient use of materials.
I absolutely agree. Plus, it takes time to figure this stuff out, so it increases build time.
A photoshow of our progress through August 4th! The crew will be flying back in next month to button it up for the winter. Gizmo the dog knows where the action is.
http://www.photoshow.com/watch/Eu3ZH7RX
Nice! I love watching a lumber pile turn into a house.
When you have a long beam end it needs good support that is carried all the way down to the foundation. Especially important when you want a window or other opening in that wall. Then the loads shift to the posts on either side.
(http://www.countryplans.com/images/VC-beam.jpg)
This from http://www.countryplans.com/vc.html
So there's a problem here? The place was engineered, and I think we're following those plans.
I passed my your new sign on your driveway/road the other day. Looks good. Is that your driveway off the main road or is that a LCMC road?