Insulating Rafters

[hunter63]

Many past discussions on insulating attic's touched on several points;
Position of vapor barrier, insulation material, i.e., blown-in, rolled, faced and non-faced fiberglass, plastic reflector, foam board, etc.

I'm going to be dealing with a loft, having rafters, boards, tar paper and roofing as the only thing, between me and the elements. I'm sure many of you have dealt/ or will deal w/ this issue.
So am looking for ideas.

Roof boards are rough-cut semi green pine.
Rafters are full 2X6, same material.  
Both have been air-drying in place for 1-1/2 years now.
Was told to allow them to dry out to prevent mold, rotting etc.

So far the cabin has been used as a get-away, hunting etc, but plans are to retire there.
Insulation at this time isn't a factor, as the wood stove will keep it toasty at least down to 5 degrees so far.
Slept w/ window-cracked open.

Will be looking to partially or completely close in the rafters for future conservation reasons.

So far the majority of cabins like this, have just stuffed in rolled insulation into the spaces between the rafters and covered it w/ plywood or car-siding (was an option from the builder, but an expensive one). Jury is still out as to whether the roof boards would dry out enough, thus cutting down on mold, rotting out and critters making a home in this space.

My thought process was, to begin with, forgo the "factory installed insulation", and allow the wood to dry then enclose it later.
As the spaces between the rafters create an allusion of added headroom, head bumping does happen, so would like to keep some of that room.
I thought about just installing ridge foam board, 1" or 1-1/4" (or more) then covering with plywood or car-siding in the spaces between the rafters so as to only take up 2" or so. This would be very labor intensive.
The other option I am considering is partially covering the opening between the rafters and using blown in foam.

http://doityourself.com/insulate/foamandfoamboardinsulation.htm


Any thoughts?

[John_M]

I would think that if you want to live there (retire), the building would be heated year round as opposed to a hunting cabin (heated only during the hunting season).  This year round heating would eventually require proper attic insulation.  Not sure what R value you are trying to acheive but I would not think that 1 inch foam would do it for you.  I would guess that you would want to vent the rafters to the ridge and install a vent if not already there.  You would then probably cover up the rafters with some drywall or T
& G boards.  

There may also be specific R-value codes that you would have to adhere to anyways if you were to permanently live there.

Just my thoughts...

[JB(Guest)]

Hunter...interesting...I've been tossing this around for several months myself, opted on the foam between the rafters, spaced away from the top osb with additional wood strips for air space, and vented at the bottom sections near eaves/soffets, or whatever. No ridge board, so air passes from one side to the other. So far, no probs that I can see. Keep us posted as to how you do it. I've never built a house before, so I was on my own here, no codes or inspections needed, not in city limits. It gets a tad chilly during the night when the wood stove shuts down, but once I fire it, it warms up in there. But I don't live in it full-time, not yet...but prob will by next cold season, still have a ways to go, and going at it alone.

[peg_688]

but prob will by next cold season, still have a ways to go, and going at it alone.

  JB hey your not going it alone , [highlight]we're here[/highlight] , we can help , with free advice

    Remember [highlight]sometimes[/highlight] ya get what ya pay for  

 Just watch out for Glenn, he'll be sending ya under ground  

[jraabe]

Both John and JB are on the right track in my opinion. Foam insulation will cost more but will give you a decent R-value in a 2x6 rafter and still leave room for 1" of ventilation under the roof sheathing. A ridge vent strip combined with soffit or vented blocking at the wall line will allow any trapped moisture (and summer heat buildup) to vent out the ridge.

When you live there year round you will get tired of chopping and feeding all that wood into the stove!

[hunter63]

Well guys, seems that the jury is in favor of at least 1" gap at the roof, ridge and eve vents. Then foam over something (?) 2 or 3 inches, then enclose the bottom with what ever room is left?
Kinda thought that that would be the best anyway.
Suggestions on what to contain the foam with?

[jraabe]

Friction fit can work well with some foams. At the bottom (inside) slice that will face the air gap and roof sheathing you might want to install a foil faced foamboard like Thermax as this will serve as a reflective barrier to radiated summer heat back out. This is also dense enough to friction fit.

Others have cut simple 1" stops and tacked them to the sides of the rafters and then stapled the foam (toenailed kinda) into the rafters.

[Amanda_931]

specialized installer installed foam?  

Here's a soy-based one, that, if one can take their propaganda at face value, that answers most of my concerns with the category--water-blown, not the stuff that may have put me in the hospital for five days once, etc.

Contacted them by email, including my phone number, took off for the 2nd nearest bookstore (only 80 miles away), may have passed by the nearest installer's house as he was trying to call me.  Of course, he is the only installer in the state of Tennessee.  When I called him the next day--company had also emailed me with his information--we had a nice talk, didn't get to price.

http://www.biobased.net/index.php

[JB(Guest)]

John...I'm ALREADY TIRED of feeding that stove day after day after day !!! But, alas, we must do what we have to do ! And I've done it before. Used to live in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. The stove there was my only source of heat. And since its February,only have a short time to go. Was nice here the other day, went fishing here where my little cabin is, right on the lake...didn't catch anything...I think it was the pole...

[jraabe]

I just came home from a warm tropical climate to 18º F mornings. Chop, chop chop...

Still love my little wood stove, but the love affair won't last forever!  

[glenn-k]

I'm sitting inside the cabin in front of the 1920 Round Oak wood stove - 32.7 outside- 7 inches of snow on the ground and growing - toasty in here-- wood was cut last fall - nice dry oak.  Nice place to back up to and toast your buns.

I know this snow belongs to someone else.  Would you please come and get it. :-/

[peg_688]

I know this snow belongs to someone else.  Would you please come and get it. :-/

   Sent just to you from our Canadian friends   We just got cold weather no snow yet

 

 Come on Glenn , PHOTOS That RV storage deal must look  8-) covered with light snow  

 PEG

[glenn-k]

Now you got me in trouble, PEG.  The wife is making me go out and take a picture for you. :-/

I already took some of the rest of the place but didn't want to go clear out there because my feet will get cold.

Awright-----here I go

[peg_688]

    8-) feet put ya boots on [highlight] first[/highlight] ya cave man  Thanks   PEG

[peg_688]

 I just discovered our fountain BROKE I figured if I just kept the pump on it would be ok but as Scotty once said " The pressures to grrete Captin , she'll never hold !"

 

 PEG

[glenn-k]

Aye Captain PEG - another Star Trek fan I see.

Here are your pictures of the snow - a bit delayed due to the fact that I figured I better snowplow a mile of road or may not get to work tomorrow.  Did it the hard way with a 2 wheel drive skip loader and Gannon scraper.  16% grades in places so it was a fun ride.



Ended up with about 9" today.



Sheba was fascinated with the snow



I layed down in the dirt to get this one for you PEG.

Here's a new album with a bunch more pix.  Sorry -no captions

 Snow pics -and others

[peg_688]

 Very nice   I thought maybe you fell down and couldn't get up , it took ya so long  

What kind of trees are those looking out the arch window , Garry oaks ??
 
  Thanks BTW .

 Ya know what cracks me up is in one of the next generation series , Scotty comes to visit and Laforge tells Picard the truth about a repair time and Scotty sez ,  "Aye lad , ya dinot teel um the truthhh di ya !"

He'd been fuddgin the times to repair to  Kirk all those years  

PEG

[glenn-k]

Fell down and I can't get up??? Depends, PEG, Depends.

The oaks are Blue Oaks - in the White Oak family I believe - Occur in the foothills from about 1000 to 4000 feet elevation I think.

Blue Oak

Our time around here is like that- minutes turn to hours hours to days -and on and on.  No wonder I never get anything done. :-/

I layed on the ground to take the picture through the window because standing up my tractor showed.  Trees looked better anyway.

[JRR]

Hunter,

If I have the correct image of your existing shelter, I would suggest you consider insulating on the outside.

Two layers of whatever thickness foam boards glued in-place, staggered so the board joints won't coincide ... then up-down furring strips, screwed or nailed thru to the rafters ... then cross-purlins to support metal roofing.

Foam is kinda expensive.  But if fairly well protected, its performance seems to last the longest of all insulations.

Glenn,

Is that an "A Model" Ford in the background?

[glenn-k]

It's a 1926 Dodge Brothers Sedan.  Restored to original - medium fair job.  That is what the garage is being built for.  I don't currently have too many good pictures of it.  Here are a couple with a clue of what it looks like.





I also have a 1919 Dodge Brothers Roadster - poor original restoration -- I will get that up here after the garage is done.  Here is a pretty cherry one from the web - mine is black -fairly rough.


Picture had trouble loading but should give the idea.  Pancho Villa died in the same year and model - probably shot to death by his own people--Pershing and  Patton failed to  get him.

Interesting story of Pancho and his 1919 Dodge Roadster getting shot 150 times in 2 minutes.

In Pursuit of Pancho Villa

Both cars are drivable - both need water pump repairs - '26 needs gas tank cleaned out.  I have pump parts but havent taken time to repair them yet.

[peg_688]

 Glenn I thought they looked like our garry oaks up here, also a white oak.


   http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/library/documents/treebook/garryoak.htm

 Very heavy wood , not good for lumber ,IMO. Great fire wood  

  Did you know barrels are made of white oak? It's not ring porus , red oak is ring porus ,so a red oak barrel would leak , while white oak does not .

 BTW I'd like to apologize to hunter63 as we sort of stole his thread , Pancho would have been proud of us .  Sorry hunter , things just sort of took a twist today

PEG  

[glenn-k]

I think the original question got answered - the most important thing -- and if there are more questions please ask them -

Then after that we're OK with drifting a little.  Interesting information helps keep our members on gaurd --ready to pounce on any other question when someone else is in need --- think of it as keeping the engine idling--- and we mght even learn something we didn't expect to.  Kirk out.

Thanks for the Garry Oak info, PEG  It appears to be a bit taller -slightly straighter and Blue Oak acorns are about 1 1/2 inches long  and about 5/8 diameter.  Likewise can make good food.

Blue Oak similar to Garry Oak is probably not good for commercial lumber but can be used to make some great stuff on a small scale.  The only thing I have made so far of it is door handles, a latch and rustic handrails.

[hunter63]

Here is the loft,




Cabin

kitchen

Woodstove

[peg_688]

Nice place Hunter  Is the cook stove converted to gas /propane or org. gas ?  

Ya can see insulation is needed from that outside  shot, snow melt.

 Did anyone mention a spray foam , no air space stuff?  we used it  a while back on two jobs the name escapes me right now .

Anyway nice cabin / house PEG

[glenn-k]

Really nice, Hunter.  I like all the real wood.  Plywood would really mess up the look in my opinion - no matter what you do to plywood it still looks like plywood but that's just me- if you like it that's great- maybe the foam with the space then real wood again?  It's probably a lot easier for me to say that since I have a sawmill sitting here.

I would guess the kitchen stove to be around the same era as ours - 1935 give or take a few years?