Just a year before the rebels got their financing from the banks
http://www.examiner.com/finance-examiner-in-national/america-s-true-reason-for-attacking-libya-becomes-clear-with-new-central-bank
the Gadhafi government completed the Great Man Made River Project.
Here is a description of the great man made river project that was a tremendous infrastrcture success for Libya. (I say "was" since the aquaduct and the factory to build the cement pipes were 'unfortunately' severely damaged by NATO)
http://www.galenfrysinger.com/man_made_river_libya.htm
water from GMMR costs about $.35 per cubic meter ($25 Billion project completed by the Libyan government with no IMF loans)
water from the bankster financed desalination plant (not built) $3.75 per cubic meter
thumbing your nose to the banksters will get you killed every time, even if your name is
John Kennedy, who wrote Executive order 11110 authorizing silver backed US currency just 5 months before his trip to Dallas.
http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/executiveorder11110.htm
never mind small timers like Gadhafi or Saddam Husain (who was going to start selling oil in Euros),
They used to "take them down" covertly like Jaime Roldos, Omar Torrijos, Mosaddegh and on and on
So now we have this report from MSNBC. My, isn't Jim Miklaszewski a smug POS
'Frankly Brian, they were poised to take out anything that moved"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44971257/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/?GT1=43001
John Perkins, author of "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" sums it up in about 2 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Fzm1hEiDQ
Secretary of State Clinton on the assassination
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D0LEW6vGF8&feature=player_embedded
Those evil people! Why would anyone want to harm a nice guy like Gaddafi?
http://current.com/community/93011049_gaddafis-forces-massacre-citizens-in-benghazi-updated-report-benghazi-now-in-hands-of-protesters.htm
http://bigpeace.com/jxenakis/2011/06/28/28-jun-11-world-view-genocide-charges-against-gaddafi/
During the 1980s and 1990s, Gaddafi openly supported international terrorism as well as independence movements, including Nelson Mandela's African National Congress, the Palestinian Liberation Organization, the Irish Republican Army and the Polisario front, which led to a deterioration of Libya's foreign relations, culminating in the US bombing of Libya in 1986. After the 9/11 attacks attacks, however, Gaddafi began to distance himself from terrorism, and during the 2000s, Libya's international relations were mostly normalized, the US rescinding its designation of Gaddafi's Libya as a state sponsor of terrorism in June 2006. Gaddafi's final appearances as the leader of Libya on the international stage were his eccentric 100-minute speech to the United Nations on 23 September 2009, and his attendance at the G-8 summit in Italy in July 2010.
At the beginning of the 1987 Libyan offensive into Chad, it maintained a force of 2,000 in Darfur. The nearly continuous cross-border raids that resulted greatly contributed to a separate ethnic conflict within Darfur that killed about 9,000 people between 1985 and 1988. Janjaweed, a group that is accused by the U.S. of carrying out a genocide in Darfur in the 2000s, emerged in 1988 and some its leaders are former legionnaires.[29][30]
In 1972 Gaddafi tried to get the People's Republic of China to sell him a nuclear bomb.
Gaddafi was a major financier of the "Black September Movement" which perpetrated the Munich massacre at the 1972 Summer Olympics
N_NM (https://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q305/djmbucket/avatars/ththumbs_up.gif) (https://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q305/djmbucket/avatars/ththumbs_up.gif)
yeah everybody loved Gaddafi
he was a good man, he was a bad man. I am not convinced it matters much.
Perhaps you think Bush was a good man, perhaps you think he was bad. Perhaps you think Obama is good, perhaps you think he is bad. What would you think if Libya or some other country decided to just come over and assassinate based on their opinion.
If either Bush or Obama were dictators, murdering tens-of-thousands of Americans, plundering billions while millions starved, executing and torturing anyone who dared dissent, I'd be pretty happy if somebody came in and killed the SOB...
I think there was more to it than his opinions...
nm source says
"After the 9/11 attacks attacks, however, Gaddafi began to distance himself from terrorism, and during the 2000s, Libya's international relations were mostly normalized, the US rescinding its designation of Gaddafi's Libya as a state sponsor of terrorism in June 2006. Gaddafi's final appearances as the leader of Libya on the international stage were his eccentric 100-minute speech to the United Nations on 23 September 2009, and his attendance at the G-8 summit in Italy in July 2010."
So that's makes him worth assassinating ?
Perhaps more critically, a nation which had a remarkably high standard of living prior to the conflict now faces a potentially massive humanitarian crisis. Speaking with RT earlier this week, former MI5 agent Annie Machon claimed NATO's intervention has plunged Libya back into the Stone Age.
"They've had free education, free health, they could study abroad. When they got married they got a certain amount of money. So they were rather the envy of many other citizens of African countries. Now, of course, since NATO's humanitarian intervention the infrastructure of their country has been bombed back to the Stone Age. They will not have the same quality of life. Women probably will not have the same degree of emancipation under any new transitional government. The national wealth is probably going to be siphoned off by Western corporations. Perhaps the standard of living in Libya might have been slightly higher than it perhaps is now in America and the UK with the recession," she said.
Misrata before and after the rebels and NATO
(http://www.rense.com/general95/Tripoli-Street-Misrata.jpg)
what ABCNBCCBSCNNNSBNC didn't and won't show you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRQ6uqhLvz8&feature=player_embedded#!
Thanks, Windpower, I've been trying to find that video to post here - watched it awhile back. Makes a person sick to think of what our USA terrorist dictator "leaders" are perpetrating around the world in the name of "freedom" :-[
Per a complaint rec'd I deleted my original post and am tagging it on here to keep proper context. GLENN
So your justification is only that they are not Americans, Native NM.
As long as it is us doing the murdering elsewhere in the world it is good, eh?
Bush Senior
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_of_Death
http://www.infowars.com/ron-paul-enters-evidence-of-bush-war-crimes-in-congressional-record/
Shrub
http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/canadian-protesters-demand-bush-s-arrest-over-war-crimes_737729.html
and now we are going to help Uganda.....God Help Them...I have personal friends there.
Charmaine... what will she look like with a drone strike in her vicinity or one of our rounds through her face?
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/charmaine.jpg)
Collateral damage.... damn ... I hope not.
Every country we help runs rivers of blood and gets bombed back to the stone age. Our military no longer fights legal wars but rather sits in Nevada playing virtual video games with real blood and guts at the end.
Obama.... Assassinates his own people without trial. He refuses to present evidence to a court....no justification necessary. Might you be his next victim?
http://www.ancientchronicles.com/content/obama-assasinates-american-citizen-no-trials-no-judges-no-jury
I am ashamed to have my name associated with the murderers running our country. Our policy of murder for oil and protection of the dollar banking system is not worth even one of the innocent lives. Face it.... we do not benefit from the wars for the bankers or oil corporations. Oil prices would likely be cheaper if traded than at the price we pay through keeping the war machine running.
Murder is murder by any other name.
I prefer Cherise's solution.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/cheriseandnacho.jpg)
Cherise is another Ugandan child we may soon be able to call collateral damage... except for me... I would call it murder if her or anyone like her is killed.
Ghadaffi Assassination justified?.... I may need to have more proof to swallow that government propaganda.
You think Obama is not set to quell our dissenters?
http://thenewamerican.com/opinion/954-chuck-baldwin/2338-us-troops-wearing-un-colors
Think again.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 23:23:46 by glenn kangiser »
(Replaced Glenn's modified quote- original was removed)
QuoteQuote from: glenn kangiser on October 21, 2011, 23:07:18
So your justification is only that they are not Americans, Native NM.
As long as it is us doing the murdering elsewhere in the world it is good, eh?
That's a stretch, don't you think?
My "justification" is that a dictator who has spent 40+ years in power by brute force, who has sponsored terrorism around the globe, blew planes from the sky, committed genocide on his own people, looted billions of dollars from the public treasury, and is otherwise a real SOB is hardly worth losing any sleep over. And in case you missed it, he wanted to kill all of you infidels simply because you were American. He stated, in fact, that even Muslims who relocated to America should die unless they embraced terrorizing the west.
As for my opinion on war, its stated elsewhere - bring all the troops home now.
Sassy -- it was a while back -- I have since verified by other sources the facts
He wasn't perfect but he did his best to make Libya a better place
Glenn
Powerful post -- I can find no words
I find it very sad that some Americans have sunk to levels of depravity that dismiss life as colateral damage
Quote from: Windpower on October 22, 2011, 01:43:19 AM
He wasn't perfect but he did his best to make Libya a better place
Neither was Hitler, but he did his best to make Germany a better place.
When you hear it from Western News sources you can count that as a stretch.
I did find Hillary's death wish though. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shirin-sadeghi/hillary-clinton-wants-gad_b_1020705.html
Sorry I haven't followed your opinion elsewhere as I am a bit out of touch working out of town.
I agree... bring them home now. We are powerful enough to protect our own country from here without killing all around the world. We can get to problem areas in plenty of time and we don't need our troops guarding the Afghan Poppy fields anyway if we shut down the drug running.
Quote from: Native_NM on October 22, 2011, 01:49:01 AM
Neither was Hitler, but he did his best to make Germany a better place.
That's all you have ?
that's all you have.
rofl
Thanks, Windpower. That is the way I see it. I haven't heard from Carol (mother) in Uganda recently. I hope she is OK but she is with the Government Ag department so hopefully they will be OK.
I heard from Seeng in Botswana a couple days ago., She is in mostly the safe areas though there is trouble there too. I chat with her every couple of weeks. She has a daughter about 15 years old.
I have a friend from Yemen I had to remind that the internet is a two way street and that his dissent here in college could be watched at home and he could be in for it when he got back. He worked out a way to voice his opinion and stay out of trouble. We are also killing in Yemen. My friend thanked me several times. Nice kid.
I have personal friends in many countries, many of whom have shared our house and meals with us as well as hiking Yosemite. I do not wish to lose any of them for any reason, especially an impersonal bombing.
Glenn
you have been blessed with meeting people from other places around the world and being able to stay in contact with them
*envy*
so wonderful for you and Sassy
I have to agree with you, Windpower.
It makes it harder to see wars and senseless killing though.
It makes prejudice next to impossible. I admit I am prejudiced though. I despise those who look on other races and neighbors around the world as being less than we are. I am prejudiced against bad people right here in the states even of my own race. I am prejudiced against those of religious affiliations that will council our leaders and agree with them about killing our neighbors for any reason. An infidel's missile or DU round kills now but our gift of DU in these countries continues killing nearly forever with mutations and birth defects. How proud should we be of that.
Look at the Libya Pix above. Should that make US proud to be an American?... sing it, Lee Greenwood.....
I like this song better......Note the nice gift we gave to him...... click for the video
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/emmanuel.jpg) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6dfc0EYktwI)
Quote from: glenn kangiser on October 22, 2011, 01:07:18 AM
Charmaine... what will she look like with a drone strike in her vicinity or one of our rounds through her face?
Do a quick Google image search of "Gadhafi atrocities" and see for yourself. Make sure your Safe Search is turned off and that the kids are in bed.
I really hate to be the one to point this out but Gadhafi isn't the only one whos ever committed atrocities. In fact the good ole USA has been guilty more than once. I'd be willing to bet there is hardly a government on earth today or in the past that wasn't just as guilty of killing and starving people.
I can hear the outcry already. THE USA would never do such things! Wanna bet? And yes I can prove it if you're to lazy to read the history for yourself.
THE UK is just as guilty. Don't belive it?
How bout France? Think they ever murdered anyone?
Russia?
Germany?
Mexico?
Spain?
The Vatican?
By your logic none of these countries should be spared the bombing either. Damn we're gonna need alot of bombs.
Point is, why whitewash it? It is what it is. A war for control of the geopolitical landscape. Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan...name your favorite drone target of the week. The targets are always evil and NATO is always the hero on the white horse saving people from their brutal dictators. Too bad they need to be bombed into oblivion to save them, but that's how it goes.
This sort of thing has been going on for thousands of years. It's nothing new and it's far from over. All we, each of us need to do is decide if we like whats happening or not. To understad it you need to see whats really going on and why other countries get attacked. It really has nothing to do with saving people from brutal dictators.
Here's a list of evil doers to bomb.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides#United_States_of_America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides#United_States_of_America)
I'm an advocate for dissolving NATO, or at least demanding that is equally funded. The non-sequiturs end up turning a discussion into little more than pages of "I know you are but what am I?"
Frankly, I'm shocked that anyone, regardless of political ideology, would defend Gadhafi.
Quote from: ScottA on October 22, 2011, 11:59:26 AM
Here's a list of evil doers to bomb.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides#United_States_of_America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides#United_States_of_America)
Well, since Gadhafi supported and help fund the regime that committed genocide in Rwanda, what are we arguing about? He was an evil-doer and we eliminated him.
You are missing the point.
We didn't eliminate him because he was an evil doer.
And I wasn't defending Gadhafi, just pointing out the real reasons he got attacked.
Quote from: ScottA on October 22, 2011, 01:33:31 PM
You are missing the point.
We didn't eliminate him because he was an evil doer.
And I wasn't defending Gadhafi, just pointing out the real reasons he got attacked.
Land grab? Oil? Late on his Visa bill? Why do you think he was targeted?
Amazing what our administrations will tolerate and for how long. Shoot, we'll even provide weapons, technology, and chemicals to many of them while they are committing genocide. Interesting how all of those previously ignored characteristics suddenly become paramount when these nervy despots try to accept something other than US dollars in exchange for oil. Surprising co-inky-dink, isn't it?
America -did not kill Gadaffi
his own people did -
after living for years in a police state - people scared to speak out - and only the privelidged few allowed to travel abroad to study.
The uprising in Tunisia next door gave the people the confidence to finally stand up and free their country
No matter what support he gave to terrorists - his secret police dished out worse to his own people.
I had Libyans staying in my house as I grew up studying english- none returned home- they applied for and got Politcal asylum in the UK
In the 90's I worked there for 3 months on and off- BBC world news was cut from the programming - you could watch the rest of that channel - but the news was cut.
people lived in fear of the secret police- his green book self governing committees were a joke - with the subjects of discussion being controled.
Every Libyan I ever met wanted him out- mind you this was only discussed out of earshot of anyone.
each time I visited I had the same Secret police follow me everywhere- to the point where I knew who he was
his long coat became my shadow- even on one trip where I had issues in Tunisia and changed my route Via Malta and the ferry instead of the drive across the desert - the same guy was there waiting for me on the docks.
Everyone in crowd had a grudge to settle with Ghadaffi and it simply happened-
no conspirousy theories or special forces
just his people that had had enough !
was Nato and the US involved - yes -did we help tip the balance yes- was it right to do - I think so-
Quote from: Native_NM on October 22, 2011, 02:59:26 PM
Land grab? Oil? Late on his Visa bill? Why do you think he was targeted?
It's a complex issue but basicly all of these wars over the past 10 years or so have been about supporting the value of the dollar. One of the main ways the dollar is given value is by forcing the world to pay for oil in dollars. This creates a demand for dollars. I also maintain that getting oil is not always the goal of invading these oil producing nations. Often it's simply to keep their oil off the market for a time to keep the price up. The more oil costs the more demand there is for dollars. This is why we never saw any real attempt to get Iraq oil to market after the liberation. I suspect you'll see more of the same in Libya. But the jist of all the wars for the past 100+ years has been about who gets to print the money and who is forced to use it. If you can give your money value without actualy having to produce products to buy with it the returns are far greater.
Even if we all agree that Gadhafi was a monster, does that justify destroying the infrastructure of a country? Killing a bunch of civilians? Oh, forgot, they're just collateral damage...
Here's a good article by Paul Craig Roberts http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27205#.TqIkuW3qWKY.email
The End of History: Now that the CIA's proxy army has murdered Gadhafi, what next for Libya?
by Paul Craig Roberts
Global Research, October 21, 2011
If Washington's plans succeed, Libya will become another American puppet state. Most of the cities, towns, and infrastructure have been destroyed by air strikes by the air forces of the US and Washington's NATO puppets. US and European firms will now get juicy contracts, financed by US taxpayers, to rebuild Libya. The new real estate will be carefully allocated to lubricate a new ruling class picked by Washington. This will put Libya firmly under Washington's thumb.
With Libya conquered, AFRICOM will start on the other African countries where China has energy and mineral investments. Obama has already sent US troops to Central Africa under the guise of defeating the Lord's Resistance Army, a small insurgency against the ruling dictator-for-life. The Republican Speaker of the House, John Boehner, welcomed the prospect of yet another war by declaring that sending US troops into Central Africa "furthers US national security interests and foreign policy." Republican Senator James Inhofe added a gallon of moral verbiage about saving "Ugandan children," a concern the senator did not have for Libya's children or Palestine's, Iraq's, Afghanistan's and Pakistan's.
Washington has revived the Great Power Game and is vying with China. Whereas China brings Africa investment and gifts of infrastructure, Washington sends troops, bombs and military bases. Sooner or later Washington's aggressiveness toward China and Russia is going to explode in our faces.
Where is the money going to come from to finance Washington's African Empire? Not from Libya's oil. Big chunks of that have been promised to the French and British for providing cover for Washington's latest war of naked aggression. Not from tax revenues from a collapsing US economy where unemployment, if measured correctly, is 23 percent.
With Washington's annual budget deficit as huge as it is, the money can only come from the printing press.
Washington has already run the printing press enough to raise the consumer price index for all urban consumers (CPI-U) to 3.9% for the year (as of the end of September), the consumer price index for urban wage earners and clerical workers (CPI-W) to 4.4% for the year, and the producer price index (PPI) to 6.9% for the year.
As statistician John Williams (shadowstats.com) has shown, the official inflation measures are rigged in order to hold down cost of living adjustments to Social Security recipients, thus saving money for Washington's wars. When measured correctly, the current rate of inflation in the US is 11.5%.
What interest rate can savers get without taking massive risks on Greek bonds? US banks pay less than one-half of one percent on FDIC insured savings deposits. Short-term US government bond funds pay essentially zero.
Thus, according to official US government statistics American savers are losing between 3.9% and 4.4% of their capital yearly. According to John Williams' estimate of the real rate of inflation, US savers are losing 11.5% of their accumulated savings.
As retired Americans receive no interest on their savings, they are having to spend down their capital. The ability of even the most prudent retirees to survive the negative rate of interest they are receiving and the erosion by inflation of any pensions that they receive will come to an end once their accumulated assets are exhausted.
Except for Washington's favored mega-rich, the one percent that has captured all of the income gains of recent years, the rest of America has been assigned to the trash can. Nothing whatsoever has been done for them since the financial crisis hit in December 2007. Bush and Obama, Republican and Democrat, have focused on saving the 1 percent while giving the finger to the 99 percent.
con't @ link above
Quote from: ScottA on October 22, 2011, 06:57:43 PM
It's a complex issue but basicly all of these wars over the past 10 years or so have been about supporting the value of the dollar. One of the main ways the dollar is given value is by forcing the world to pay for oil in dollars. This creates a demand for dollars. I also maintain that getting oil is not always the goal of invading these oil producing nations. Often it's simply to keep their oil off the market for a time to keep the price up. The more oil costs the more demand there is for dollars. This is why we never saw any real attempt to get Iraq oil to market after the liberation. I suspect you'll see more of the same in Libya. But the jist of all the wars for the past 100+ years has been about who gets to print the money and who is forced to use it. If you can give your money value without actualy having to produce products to buy with it the returns are far greater.
There is some truth here - dollars are really nothing more than warrants for oil.
I see an inconsistency.
In this topic some condemn the killing of Gaddafi, who acted like a thug, keeping his people in line with violence and threats.
Then there's another topic (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=11350.msg145812#msg145812) where a 66 yr old woman shoots and kills an intruder, a thug, is applauded by some of those same people.
At least I'm consistent; I applaud the elderly lady and I applaud the demise of Gaddafi. Good riddance to both.
Quote from: MountainDon on October 23, 2011, 03:13:17 PM
I see an inconsistency.
In this topic some condemn the killing of Gaddafi, who acted like a thug, keeping his people in line with violence and threats.
Then there's another topic (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=11350.msg145812#msg145812) where a 66 yr old woman shoots and kills an intruder, a thug, is applauded by some of those same people.
At least I'm consistent; I applaud the elderly lady and I applaud the demise of Gaddafi. Good riddance to both.
I ask, would the 66 yr old lady have been just as justified in going to the thugs house and shooting him?
I agree - one was self defense. The other was an assassination (the clean word for premeditated murder).
QuoteBritain's defense secretary, Philip Hammond, said the Libyan revolutionaries' image had been "a little bit stained" by Gadhafi's violent death. Both he and U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said a full investigation is necessary.
http://news.yahoo.com/libya-declared-free-gadhafi-death-questioned-192557748.html Today from Hillary.
Hillary Clinton Wants Gaddafi Killed
QuoteIt was only last week that the US government tried to negatively portray Iran and Iranians by associating them with political assassinations.
It was just this week that US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton openly called for the political assassination of Moammar Gaddafi, the Libyan leader. "We hope he can be captured or killed soon," she said -- while in Libya, to Libyans.
"'We hope he can be captured or killed soon so that you don't have to fear him any longer,' Clinton told students and others at a town hall-style gathering in the capital city [of Libya]," states the Associated Press coverage of Clinton's speech.
It is actually against the law, what the US government is doing.
10-19-11 Quote from Hillary
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shirin-sadeghi/hillary-clinton-wants-gad_b_1020705.html
So - what is going on here with our assassination machine... did she figure out her comments were illegal, or is she afraid it will be justified if the same happens to our leaders?
First, it was Libyan citizens who killed Gadhafi. It was Libyans who rose up. I'm sure it is more fun to believe that the killer was actually a member of the Rothschild family in disguise, aided by a CIA operative, and two Mossad agents wearing trenchcoats and fedora hats. The reality is different.
In some states, the 66 year old could be face potential prosecution, as the intruder did not actually make into her house. In fact, in some states, the law would prevent her from even owning a gun. She shot him through the window. There is evidence that the man was mentally ill, and should not have been released from prison.
The value of human life should not vary dependent on political ideology.
Libyan Citizens or NATO Mercs?... the individuals may have finished the job but this was NATO's kill all the way. When things went bad for the "rebels" at the start NATO immediately stepped in and proceeded bombing Libya to dust.
QuoteA Nato airstrike on the vehicles left them badly damaged, but not destroyed, and an injured Gaddafi managed to crawl away to hide inside a storm drain.
QuoteSAS squads hunting Gaddafi for weeks
NATO special forces including the British SAS have been on the ground in Libya since February – long before the beginning of the Orwellian 'no-fly zone'. These forces set up bases in Libya from which they trained and directed the poorly-trained 'rebel' mercenaries being used as pawns to overthrow Gaddafi. The Libya war would not have been possible without the presence of these special forces. NATO airstrikes have been coordinated by these operatives on the ground. Further to this, the incredibly inept 'rebels' have proven themselves utterly incapable of achieving and holding a single military or strategic victory against the overwhelming size and breadth of the indigenous Green Libyan Resistance. Operation Mermaid Dawn, coordinated and overtly carried out by Western special forces and soldiers, was an indication of the sheer ineptitude of the tribalists, terrorists and extremists fighting for NATO as 'Libyan rebels'.
After Operation Mermaid Dawn in August, British SAS soldiers, dressed in civilian Arab garb and carrying the same weaponry as the 'rebels', refocused their efforts towards hunting down Muammar Gaddafi. Furthermore, the British media was replete with reports of this special forces activity on Libyan soil.
This theory is bolstered by a recent report from the well-connected Israeli intelligence outfit DEBKAfile. In a report titled 'After helping to kill Qaddafi, NATO prepares to end Libya mission', DEBKA reveals that its military sources indicate Gaddafi was captured and shot by NATO special forces:
DEBKAfile's military sources report mounting indications that a NATO special forces unit – although of which nation is unknown – located and captured Muammar Qaddafi in the Sirte area.
They apparently shot him in both legs to prevent his escape and informed a Misrata militia of his whereabouts, knowing they would kill him in view of the town's long reckoning with the former Libyan ruler. NATO was guided by two considerations: First not to comprise the presence of ground troops in the battle zone in breach of the alliance's UN mandate; and second, to give the Libyan rebels a psychological victory – especially after they failed in battle to capture Qaddafi's home town of Sirte."
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27236
I doubt that the Israeli DEBKAfile is lying.
The little old lady.... obviously she was concerned about doing the right thing... she called 911.
Obviously law enforcement should have arrived sooner to protect the life of the criminal who may have been attempting to murder the old lady. The technicality of him being outside the glass trying to break in is not favored by many law officers who are frustrated by the laws that are stacked against them and require them to protect the criminals. I guess the little old lady should have waited until she was raped or killed to defend herself?
Some places are sane.
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=41196
To clarify, had his own people risen up and killed him, without assistance from NATO or other outside influence, his killing would have been acceptable to you? A simple yes or no, please.
Quote from: glenn kangiser on October 23, 2011, 07:13:42 PM
The little old lady.... obviously she was concerned about doing the right thing... she called 911.
Obviously law enforcement should have arrived sooner to protect the life of the criminal who may have been attempting to murder the old lady. The technicality of him being outside the glass trying to break in is not favored by many law officers who are frustrated by the laws that are stacked against them and require them to protect the criminals. I guess the little old lady should have waited until she was raped or killed to defend herself?
Not in my book. As soon as he attempted forced entry she was justified in shooting. Interesting that in the usual legal analysis associated with these cases, a former prosecutor indicated today that her two warning shots were probably illegal. Had she killed him with one of those shots, she might have faced big trouble.
Quote from: Native_NM on October 23, 2011, 08:00:06 PM
Not in my book. As soon as he attempted forced entry she was justified in shooting. Interesting that in the usual legal analysis associated with these cases, a former prosecutor indicated today that her two warning shots were probably illegal. Had she killed him with one of those shots, she might have faced big trouble.
I can pretty well agree with that, and it seems that the warning shot speculation could have some reasonable thought behind it. Accidents happen.
Quote from: Native_NM on October 23, 2011, 07:35:55 PM
To clarify, had his own people risen up and killed him, without assistance from NATO or other outside influence, his killing would have been acceptable to you? A simple yes or no, please.
Sorry but I will not let you force me into implying that I agree or disagree with the assassination in any form.
I would not set myself up to judge him as I only have third party knowledge so I would have to say that if they had been affected first hand and it was their choice it would be acceptable to them. I would not judge their action as it is not my place.
I will say that the NATO action is not acceptable. The destruction of the civilian facilities by the unrelenting bombing that continues at this moment even though they claim to have killed him is also unjustified. Why continue the bombing when it is MISSION ACCOMPLISHED?
Perhaps they are upset that they may only have gotten one of his 7 doubles and they are now after the real Gaddafi?
Quote from: glenn kangiser on October 23, 2011, 09:06:01 PM
Sorry but I will not let you force me into implying that I agree or disagree with the assassination in any form.
I would not set myself up to judge him as I only have third party knowledge so I would have to say that if they had been affected first hand and it was their choice it would be acceptable to them. I would not judge their action as it is not my place.
I will say that the NATO action is not acceptable. The destruction of the civilian facilities by the unrelenting bombing that continues at this moment even though they claim to have killed him is also unjustified. Why continue the bombing when it is MISSION ACCOMPLISHED?
Perhaps they are upset that they may only have gotten one of his 7 doubles and they are now after the real Gaddafi?
All any of us have is third-party knowledge right now....we don't know what happened there, and have not lived under his rule for 40 years.
Anyone who does not see some inconsistency with the Gadhafi thread and the "Little old lady kills thug" thread is not being honest. Two lives were lost. Both at the hand of their victims.
I think we've beat this horse enough...ciao.
[deadhorse] ;D
"Anyone who does not see some inconsistency with the Gadhafi thread and the "Little old lady kills thug" thread is not being honest."
Gadhafi, a ligitimate leader of Libya for 40 years, flees in a convoy with a white flag flying. The convoy is attacked with a missile fired by a NATO plane. He flees and eventually surrenders, he is then executed by 'rebels'
A woman in iminent threat to her life calls 911, then, as a last resort fires on the man threatening her.
Got it, exactly the same thing <sarcasm>
I quit reading at "legitimate leader".....
Quote from: Native_NM on October 25, 2011, 07:56:57 AM
I quit reading at "legitimate leader".....
Please feel free to read or not
Read anything posted but
If you don't read the post how
Can you under stand or
Know what the writer is trying to say
But these folks seemed to think he was 'legitimate' enough to speak with
Tony Blair
(http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040325/040325_libya_blair_hmed_4a.grid-6x2.jpg)
Condoleza Rice
(http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1266872298541&id=de82e922a313dbd4b37fa175a1bc1512&url=http%3a%2f%2fmsnbcmedia2.msn.com%2fj%2fmsnbc%2fComponents%2fPhoto%2f_new%2f080905-gadhafi-cond-hmed-235p.grid-6x2.jpg)
George Bush
Bush Speaks With Libya's Gaddafi in Historic Phone Call
President Bush called Libya's Moammar Gaddafi yesterday -- apparently the first time any president has spoken to the African leader -- to voice his satisfaction that Libya had settled a long-standing dispute over terrorist attacks, including the bombing of a Pan Am jet over Scotland, the White House said.
In their conversation, Bush and Gaddafi "discussed that this agreement should help to bring a painful chapter in the history between our two countries closer to closure," White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said in a statement.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/17/AR2008111702975.html
How about me and my ex-military buddies take over your state in a coup. We'll kill anyone who dissents. My secret squad of goons will drag your family from their homes at night, executing them, and leave their bodies as a warning. I'll sponsor terror throughout the region. I'll shoot planes from the sky in Michigan, support murder in Minnesota, bomb a factory or two in Illinois, and claim ownership of the Great Lakes. I'll funnel your natural resources into my Swiss account. There will be elections, but I'm the only one on the ballot, and if you don't vote for me, I might just have you killed also.
I'll do a few nice things. I'll give you a place to stay and keep the power on. You can go to school, but you only get to study what I tell you to. I'll control the school system. Bread and Circuses worked for Caesar, so it should work for me. As time goes by and I've aged a few years and amassed a few billion in various investments and Swiss accounts, I might soften up. I'll still have to kill a few thousand people a year to keep the masses in line, but then again, any legitimate leader does what he has to.... d* d* d* d* d* ??? ??? ??? ???
But if he's there, in power, long enough doesn't he become legitimate?
[tongue deeply in cheek]
and if that needs explaining http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/tongue-in-cheek.html (http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/tongue-in-cheek.html)
Furthermore, may I suggest that we try to
Understand each other's position. I
Can see a very distinct difference between Gadhafi's
Killing and the woman protecting herself.
You do not seem to agree
Or are you being purposely
Unresponsive to the original post.
Quote from: Native_NM on October 25, 2011, 10:12:00 AM
How about me and my ex-military buddies take over your state in a coup. We'll kill anyone who dissents. My secret squad of goons will drag your family from their homes at night, executing them, and leave their bodies as a warning. I'll sponsor terror throughout the region. I'll shoot planes from the sky in Michigan, support murder in Minnesota, bomb a factory or two in Illinois, and claim ownership of the Great Lakes. I'll funnel your natural resources into my Swiss account. There will be elections, but I'm the only one on the ballot, and if you don't vote for me, I might just have you killed also.
Somebody just got added to a list.
Quote from: Squirl on October 25, 2011, 11:36:56 AM
Somebody just got added to a list.
I've been on it for a long time...
Quote from: Windpower on October 25, 2011, 10:33:17 AM
Furthermore, may I suggest that we try to
Understand each other's position. I
Can see a very distinct difference between Gadhafi's
Killing and the woman protecting herself.
You do not seem to agree
Or are you being purposely
Unresponsive to the original post.
Is the intent of the original post to assert that Gadhafi was killed by bankers disguised as rebels in retaliation for attempting to sell oil in a currency other than dollars and for building a water project without IMF funding? I wasn't sure what to discern from the string of articles you posted. Perhaps the intent was to portray NATO as the bad guys and Libya as a virtual utopia and paradise. Why don't you tell us in your own words what you think. Cut-and-paste links from sites with a known political tilt don't give us much insight into what you think. The Examiner is not even a news source. Its a freelance sight run by independent "Examiners" who get paid pennies each time somebody like you pastes a link to their stories.
In my opinion, the difference between the two deaths is about 40 years. One was killed as he broke into a home, the other about 40 years after he broke into an
entire country.
Is Bloomberg any better, if you don't like the Examiner
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-21/libyan-rebel-council-sets-up-oil-company-to-replace-qaddafi-s.html
The point is that From Tony Blair to Condoleza Rice to George Bush and Prince Charles
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2053079/Gaddafi-dead-Prince-Charless-fawning-letter-despot-discovered-Libya-palace.html
(I assume the Daily Mail from London is an acceptable source)
-- Gadhafi was recognized as the head of Libya, there was no problem until he started to organize the African Gold Dinar and talk about selling oil for the Dinar.
All of a sudden the same man is a demon and deserves to to be shot down like a dog in the street.
The rebels had zero chance of pulling off a coup without NATO airstrikes that killed thousands of civilians.
Now the people of Libya are the big losers. They are in debt to the new 'central bank' They will have to spend billions to rebuild their infrastructure
"Mission Accomplished" another debt free country is now enslaved to the IMF/BIS(what ever you want to call them)
That is the intended end result.
Oh here is another result
The Rebels will force Sharia Law on the new 'free' Libya
"Now the rebels impose Sharia law as Islamic rules become 'basic source' of Libyan legislation"
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2052398/Gaddafi-dead-Mahmoud-Jibril-says-legislation-based-Islamic-Sharia-law.html#ixzz1bovo7m00
Nice, now we have another fanatical Islamic republic in the ME
"Somebody just got added to a list."
hehehe at least I'm not alone then !
I get stopped just about everywhere for extra screening - extra interviews and multifinger printing
Guilty by travel !
Too many odd country stamps in my passport. 8)
reference Ghadaffi's visitors over the years
Most of them were in reference to the following
get Ghadaffi to hand over the lockerbie bombers
the shooter of the British Police women outside the Libyan embassy
To close the IRA training camps
and from him to beg for permission to fly again/ spares for the aging internal fleet
You can also add Chavez and Fidel to his list of visitors.
They were'nt there as friends !
he's gone- thats good for the country
If they do sharia law- it really makes no diference - Dubai has that - and has millions of happy foreign investors and expats working there.
Its not my cup of tea- religion should be seperated from governement- too many wars and opression have historicly come from the Church,Mosque and local witch doctors.
But its their country and they can choose to do what they wish !
Just being Muslim does not mean your a terrorist !
Quote from: Windpower on October 25, 2011, 01:58:04 PM
Is Bloomberg any better, if you don't like the Examiner
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-21/libyan-rebel-council-sets-up-oil-company-to-replace-qaddafi-s.html
I think you nailed it with that one. Ever wonder why we and most of the west went into Libya in a moments notice, but don't give a crap about Syria. Both were rolling in tanks against their people at the same time.
"It is true that America cannot use our military wherever repression occurs. And given the costs and risks of intervention, we must always measure our interests against the need for action."
President Obama in his (this is not a military action) Libya speech. He then went on to claim it was for humanitarian interests.
Quote from: Squirl on October 25, 2011, 02:41:31 PM
I think you nailed it with that one. Ever wonder why we and most of the west went into Libya in a moments notice, but don't give a crap about Syria. Both were rolling in tanks against their people at the same time.
"It is true that America cannot use our military wherever repression occurs. And given the costs and risks of intervention, we must always measure our interests against the need for action."
President Obama in his (this is not a military action) Libya speech. He then went on to claim it was for humanitarian interests.
I'd support support/action in Syria similar to the support provided to Libya. How about you?
By some estimates Gadhafi killed or contributed to the death of millions of humans. I'd bet they would take their chances with Sharia over Gadhafi's system.
From his Green Book:
For the wealth of the world has limits at each stage as does the wealth of each individual society. Therefore no individual has the right to carry out economic activity in order to acquire more of that wealth than is
necessary to satisfy his needs, because the excess amount belongs to other individuals. He has the right to save from his needs and from his own production but not from the efforts of others nor at the expense of their needs. For if we allow economic activity to extend beyond the satisfaction of needs, one person will only have more than his needs by preventing another from obtaining his. The savings which are in excess of one's needs are another person's share of the wealth of society.
So let it be written, so let it be done...except for me. I get dozens of palaces, billions in Swiss Bank accounts, hundreds of luxury cars, a private jet or two, hookers, liquor, drugs, and of course plastic surgery. The stuff all legitimate rulers are entitled to...
Quote from: Windpower on October 25, 2011, 01:58:04 PM
-- Gadhafi was recognized as the head of Libya, there was no problem until he started to organize the African Gold Dinar and talk about selling oil for the Dinar.
There is this crazy guy running North Korea who is recognized world-wide as their "leader" also...you might have heard of him: Kim Jong-il.
My folks forwarded this note from a friend in one of the former soviet republics that they taught english in. More of our evil work I suppose. He is talking about another leader of ill repute and this thread came to mind.
"We had a dinner at our home with my dad's special guests on last Saturday. His school teacher Nina from the 1st grade and her daughter Tanya came to our flat. Nina is 92 years old and she teached my dad when he was in 1st, 2nd and 3d grade at school. She told us some stories about her and her relatives lifes in time when Stalin was the head of USSR. Her husband was accused and he was sent to a Syberia just because he said that Stalin is stupid man. He said that when he was in a bar with his friends. It was right after WW2. As you know there was a KGB in USSR at that time and they said that Nina's husband is a public enemy (article No.58). There were thousands of people who were sent to Syberia forever under this article. Those friends got 5 years in jail just because they were together with him in that bar. So Nina was a wife of Decembrist (her husband) and she together with her little daughter went to see her husband to Syberia to live there together. She told us how it was hard to get there and some other interesting things. I have listened her with my open mouth. It was very interesting for me to hear our history from the person who was there. It's different than if you read books. So we had a great time."
My wife and her family fled Libya when she was a little girl. My FIL was working there as an engineer at the time. I wasn't in favor of our involvement but have no sympathy for the man.
"It really has nothing to do with saving people from brutal dictators."
Exactly.....please note the dearth of "American intervention" in the slaughterhouse of Africa.
Quote from: considerations on October 26, 2011, 01:29:16 PM
"It really has nothing to do with saving people from brutal dictators."
Exactly.....please note the dearth of "American intervention" in the slaughterhouse of Africa.
Or in North Korea...
Corbett Report on the Libya coup d'etat
http://www.corbettreport.com/the-assassination-of-gaddafi-grtv-backgrounder/