Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)

Started by Oljarhead, September 21, 2009, 02:53:09 PM

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OlJarhead

#875
Quote from: JavaMan on August 12, 2011, 10:10:00 AM
Slacking? I've never seen you slacking in any of the posts!  you're a machine!

LOL ya, I have been slacking...heck I have the roof to complete still, the exterior walls to complete and stain, the .....you see there is so much to do that if I sit down and relax for more then 5 minutes at the cabin then I'm slacking!

Seriously though, I'm ready for the trip that has no agenda, no plans, no reason for being other then for being there...then I'll have to kick back for at least 10 minutes! ;)

It's probably the ACT though -- Advanced Cellular Technology -- a natural energy drink that I drink twice daily and my Doctor tells me "What the heck are you doing!  Your numbers keep improving and you just keep on getting better!" to which I reply "Drinking Energy Drinks Doc" and he laughs, "ya that supplement ACT right?"

Seriously, the stuff is amazing and it is the reason I am always trying to do something.  It doesn't give me a buzz or anything, just makes me WANT to get up and do something...hence the not sitting around doing nothing ;)

Cabin building powered by ACT :D

OlJarhead

Just got in from Spokane with our new tub :)  An 89 year old Claw Foot tub, 5 feet long that was made on July 25th 1922!  Actually welded into the bottom of the tub.


Virtually no rust (probably a little around the drain I'm guessing but no where else.  All the feet appear to be 100% with a little rust to clean off and condition before painting.  Only one small chip in the porcelain and a little rub spot where the chain used to hang with the stopper.  Otherwise this tub is in excellent shape!


Even the show rod setup appears to be in excellent shape which no rust or damage.  Simply awesome.

What's more is that it was installed and in use and demonstrated (get your mind out of the gutter you! d* ) before being removed before I bought it and brought it home. [cool]

So with a little cleaning and sanding we can repaint the base and feet and have it ready to install.  Also it came with a dozen or so seals for the taps which the owner tells me they replaced once a year but get from Lowes, and the hoses which have an oddball larger connection to the taps.  It's ready to install and use but we'll clean it up some and give it a paint job while waiting on the bathroom walls to be finished first.

Heavy sucker too!


dug


OlJarhead

Quote from: dug on August 13, 2011, 06:48:45 PM
Nice find Jarhead, looks great!

Thanks Dug :)  We're pretty stoked!

OlJarhead

Pretty much losing it...I'm in the 'it's been a whole week!' stage that I go through everytime I'm not at the cabin....so I'm planning the next trip ( for next weekend) which will be a 4 day trip to give me a little more time to work on the cabin.

Can't wait!


timkel

How did you insulate the floor of your cabin? What type and what R factor? How did you secure it in place? How do you keep animals from pulling it out?

OlJarhead

Quote from: timkel on August 17, 2011, 10:41:05 AM
How did you insulate the floor of your cabin? What type and what R factor? How did you secure it in place? How do you keep animals from pulling it out?

I insulated the floor before putting the lid on so the batting (R19) would hold while waiting for treatment below.

I've not had a chance yet (sadly) to get the underneath done but I've been considering the possibility of just putting 1" foam under it and holding it up with chicken wire.

So far the critters haven't been too bad with removing the insulation and it's been plenty of floor insulation as we were warm in the winter without much wall or roof insulation despite VERY cold temps.

At this point my plan is to secure the floor insulation with either foam or something else that will deter animals and then enclose the outer wall of the 'crawl space' and insulate that with 1 1/4 or thicker foam board insulation.  I'm hoping that by doing that and insulating all pipes and putting heat trace on them for extreme cold protection that I'll be able to use the drains and toilet in -30 degree weather without issue :)  We've been ok down to -10 so far and that's without anything else :)

MountainDon

Note there are wire "stays" cut from spring steel wire, available is sizes to to be used with 16 and 24 inch OC joists. These are used to hold the insulation up in place.

Back home I've seen deer mice chew through foam as if it was cheese, not sure I'd recommend that. Three-eighths plywood will keep most curious rodents out. Ours has been left alone for a couple winters now. If they are determined they will chew through that.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

OlJarhead

Quote from: MountainDon on August 17, 2011, 10:30:39 PM
Note there are wire "stays" cut from spring steel wire, available is sizes to to be used with 16 and 24 inch OC joists. These are used to hold the insulation up in place.

Back home I've seen deer mice chew through foam as if it was cheese, not sure I'd recommend that. Three-eighths plywood will keep most curious rodents out. Ours has been left alone for a couple winters now. If they are determined they will chew through that.

I thought about doing that too...figured it would be the strongest I could do.


timkel

Quote from: MountainDon on August 17, 2011, 10:30:39 PM
Note there are wire "stays" cut from spring steel wire, available is sizes to to be used with 16 and 24 inch OC joists. These are used to hold the insulation up in place.

Back home I've seen deer mice chew through foam as if it was cheese, not sure I'd recommend that. Three-eighths plywood will keep most curious rodents out. Ours has been left alone for a couple winters now. If they are determined they will chew through that.
Originally I insulated my floor with 6" of fiberglass insilation held in place with the wire cross pieces. I actually did this 2 times. Both times animals pulled it out within few years. Next I tried the 4' x 8' x 1" foam panels. I cut the panels into 22.5" x 48" pieces and installed them between the rafters up against the floor. I used screws to secure the panels in place. This method has worked very well. The animals have not disturbed it at all in over 10 years. But I think my floor needs more then 1" of insulation. Now I am considering the 4' x 8' x 2" foam panels and adding 2" more insulation.
I think spray foam would also work well. But the cost is high. Chicken wire is also a good idea.

MountainDon

Quote from: timkel on August 18, 2011, 05:35:09 AMBoth times animals pulled it out within few years.


The wires work but there still needs to be something else to keep the rodents, etc out. Hence the plywood. Chicken wire spaces are too large to keep mice out and the wire gauge is too small to be bite proof to larger rodents.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

OlJarhead

Quote from: timkel on August 18, 2011, 05:35:09 AM
Originally I insulated my floor with 6" of fiberglass insilation held in place with the wire cross pieces. I actually did this 2 times. Both times animals pulled it out within few years. Next I tried the 4' x 8' x 1" foam panels. I cut the panels into 22.5" x 48" pieces and installed them between the rafters up against the floor. I used screws to secure the panels in place. This method has worked very well. The animals have not disturbed it at all in over 10 years. But I think my floor needs more then 1" of insulation. Now I am considering the 4' x 8' x 2" foam panels and adding 2" more insulation.
I think spray foam would also work well. But the cost is high. Chicken wire is also a good idea.

So perhaps using fiberglass bats held in by foam secured with something else?  Sounds like the foam did well for you.

JavaMan

I was wondering, OJH, if you had any handle on what I am calling "fixed costs" - in otherwords, simply the costs of going to and from the site?

I'm working on a "budget", so to speak for what I hope will not be the first and last trip up this year and got to thinking about what it costs for gas, food, etc... other than lumber, nails, and other materials that I use.  I was wondering if anyone else has thought of what the costs were to get to the site and back.  So far I have about $225 in gas/food/ and other expenses of traveling.

Most of that is fuel for the truck (ouch!)

timkel

Quote from: OlJarhead on August 18, 2011, 09:16:01 AM
So perhaps using fiberglass bats held in by foam secured with something else?  Sounds like the foam did well for you.
I think if there is any kind of cavity above the foam, then they will get inside any nest, ect. I plan on using foam right up against the plywood floor.


MountainDon

#889
Quote from: JavaMan on August 18, 2011, 11:05:39 AM
thinking about what it costs for gas, food, etc...


Food doesn't count, IMO; we all eat no matter what. Unless restaurant food is chosen over prepare it yourself food.

Gasoline and the other associated vehicle costs do add up.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

hillsvillehermit

I've heard of using hardware cloth on the bottom of the joists to keep the insulation in and critters out, but I've never actually seen whether it works or not.

OlJarhead

Quote from: JavaMan on August 18, 2011, 11:05:39 AM
I was wondering, OJH, if you had any handle on what I am calling "fixed costs" - in otherwords, simply the costs of going to and from the site?

I'm working on a "budget", so to speak for what I hope will not be the first and last trip up this year and got to thinking about what it costs for gas, food, etc... other than lumber, nails, and other materials that I use.  I was wondering if anyone else has thought of what the costs were to get to the site and back.  So far I have about $225 in gas/food/ and other expenses of traveling.

Most of that is fuel for the truck (ouch!)

I budget $200 per trip.  About $100-$120 of that is gas and the rest is 'incidentals'.  Since i Have to eat no matter where I am I don't count food at all.  The only expenses I have besides gas are the occasional bag of chips etc but honestly we keep that way down because I go twice a month, every month and at that rate if I spent even $225 per trip for gas etc then I'd just not be able to do much else.  By sticking to $200 or less (most often much less) then I can use the excess for the various things you need to build the cabin.

It's like a cushion built into my cabin budget -- $400 a month for trips and $600 a month for parts but often it works out to $750 a month in parts and $250 a month for trips ;)  Just have to be very  mindful of how much gas you are burning and where you buy it (the Indian store in Omak is the best place to refuel).  I get about 17.5mpg in the truck as long as I don't smash the throttle nonstop ;) so I can squeak a trip in for around $105 in gas if I don't mess around...that leaves me a few bucks for snacks if we don't pack any (we usually do) and the rest for padding on the months budget or whatever we might need :)

rick91351

About budgeting and food for trips to the property / cabin.  True you have to eat.  According to the budgeting gurus this should come out of the food money budgeted for the household for the month, half or week unless you can budget it from another source.  But you ar still trading $ for $ if that is the case.  The short of it is if it is causing a strain on the food budget look to lower your cost some how.  My wife and I have a bad budget braking habit stopping by and buying deli stuff from the place we fuel.  They have mongo good chicken strips and a couple other items I love.  We were able to knock the cost of a trip down by about $10 by packing a lunch and dinner of what we would normally eat.  That is forty a month easing of our food budget. 

Yes you have to eat.  I agree but with us our well we have to eat was turning in to a lot more than just at home eating.  Another thing we are a lot more better at selecting what vehicle to take.  My little Escort I drive back and forth to work.  Or am I going to have to move a trailer, firewood or lumber and need the pick up?               
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

rick91351

Quote from: hillsvillehermit on August 18, 2011, 01:44:58 PM
I've heard of using hardware cloth on the bottom of the joists to keep the insulation in and critters out, but I've never actually seen whether it works or not.

Heavy hardware cloth will work to the extent of its ability to withstand sharp little teeth of mice and the larger teeth of like in this area of pack rats.  Also it is as good as the time that is invested in doing it right.  Seems the hard foam boards do a very good job plus sealing all holes with some type of foam sealer.  IE Great-Stuff.  Then still one needs to keep an eye out for activity.  Place that they might be chewing.  Fall and winter is of course when they are the worst hoping to find shelter and food.       

About rodent control with cabins that use piers.  Could you not fashion some type of shield that would not allow them to climb up the pier or chase in the first place?  Sort of like the rat guards you use to see around the mooring lines on ships.

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/rat-guards.html

Rather than a rope or line the cabin pier!  Just a thought.
 
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Don_P

Check out the norwegian farm storage buildings, stabbur. The piers are either logs carved sort of like a mushroom to prevent rodents from being able to climb them or the piers support a wide sill that accomplishes the same thing.
http://www.scandinavianheritage.org/stabbur.htm


timkel

Quote from: rick91351 on August 18, 2011, 06:06:38 PM
Heavy hardware cloth will work to the extent of its ability to withstand sharp little teeth of mice and the larger teeth of like in this area of pack rats.  Also it is as good as the time that is invested in doing it right.  Seems the hard foam boards do a very good job plus sealing all holes with some type of foam sealer.  IE Great-Stuff.  Then still one needs to keep an eye out for activity.  Place that they might be chewing.  Fall and winter is of course when they are the worst hoping to find shelter and food.       

About rodent control with cabins that use piers.  Could you not fashion some type of shield that would not allow them to climb up the pier or chase in the first place?  Sort of like the rat guards you use to see around the mooring lines on ships.

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/rat-guards.html

I think that is a good idea. The link has several good ideas. My problems have been with squirrels. But they are just rats with a bushy tail.

Rather than a rope or line the cabin pier!  Just a thought.
 

considerations

"I've heard of using hardware cloth on the bottom of the joists to keep the insulation in and critters out, but I've never actually seen whether it works or not."

I'll let you know in the spring.  My floors from top to bottom are:


  • 2 x 6 T&G
  • 2 x 10 joists - the spaces filled in with insulation
  • 1/4" hardware cloth overlapped and carefully riveted (picture "sewn") with a roofing nail gun so that there are (hopefully) no gaps (after multiple inspections

Rodents are world class opportunists....

JavaMan

Quote from: OlJarhead on August 18, 2011, 02:43:32 PM
I budget $200 per trip.  About $100-$120 of that is gas and the rest is 'incidentals'.  Since i Have to eat no matter where I am I don't count food at all.  The only expenses I have besides gas are the occasional bag of chips etc but honestly we keep that way down because I go twice a month, every month and at that rate if I spent even $225 per trip for gas etc then I'd just not be able to do much else.  By sticking to $200 or less (most often much less) then I can use the excess for the various things you need to build the cabin.

It's like a cushion built into my cabin budget -- $400 a month for trips and $600 a month for parts but often it works out to $750 a month in parts and $250 a month for trips ;)  Just have to be very  mindful of how much gas you are burning and where you buy it (the Indian store in Omak is the best place to refuel).  I get about 17.5mpg in the truck as long as I don't smash the throttle nonstop ;) so I can squeak a trip in for around $105 in gas if I don't mess around...that leaves me a few bucks for snacks if we don't pack any (we usually do) and the rest for padding on the months budget or whatever we might need :)

Unfortunately, my vehicle doesn't get that kind of gas milage.  I get about 14-15 on the highway - maybe 13 if I'm towing.  Then again I have at least 2 passes to climb over each way depending on the route I take. (don't know what passes you have to do - I'm guessing you do Bluett, tho). My gas costs work out to about $150 just to get there and back, not counting having to run to the lumber yard, etc...

Generally, I've been trying to budget $500 per trip (gas, construction supplies, etc...) - this year, with 0% inflation  [rofl2] it's been hard to put even that much together.  Of course, some of that is because of "pent up demand" after a long time out of work.  A lot of "deferred maintenance" around the house and on vehicles.

I had the money in the account a couple times this year, but once my sister was here visiting, and her travel plans got changed so I couldn't just leave for the property, and another time there was something else that needed doing.  Beautiful (and the kids) can tell that I'm a bit frustrated that I haven't been able to get up there yet this year.  I might have to change my username to "grumpy"  :o

It is good information, though, to know that my budget expectations aren't too far out of line compared to everyone else.

Plus, this weekend, Beautiful and I (in an attempt to figure out where to find more $$), discovered that I can probably save about $500/month on my commute - which will be awesome!  That's another trip to the property  ;D

Thanks to all (and especially to OJH for letting me hijack his thread for a bit) for the info on your budgets.  It was exactly the info I was hoping for.

OlJarhead

No passes for me bud :)  I live on the east side.  The driving is mostly small hills and flat east side desert until the last 100 miles then it's still pretty tame.  The Ford F150 (2006) that we bought gets great mileage for a big truck and we're pretty happy with it :)  As good or better then my jeep was!  So I feel ya there, I can make two or three trips to your one for the same money so I have a distinct advantage there.

Maybe things will work out to your advantage soon!  I hope so because I love to see folks live the dream :)


Speaking of living the dream :)  This is the start of our wood shed and possibly ATV garage and/or work space for splitting kindling etc in the winter.

I was basically tired of trying to pry frozen wood out from under a frozen tarp in order to heat the cabin in the winter so we began our log wood shed :)

The boys decided it could become a cabin someday! haha but I suggested that if they liked the style of construction then perhaps in the future once the main cabin is done we could tackle a more rustic log structure.

However, to make this skeleton we had to cut and peel 18 logs this weekend!  That's a lot of work and the shoulders, arm and back are sore today!

But honestly?  It's living the dream! :)  [cool]

JavaMan

Quote from: OlJarhead on August 23, 2011, 12:07:56 AM
No passes for me bud :)  I live on the east side.  The driving is mostly small hills and flat east side desert until the last 100 miles then it's still pretty tame.  The Ford F150 (2006) that we bought gets great mileage for a big truck and we're pretty happy with it :)  As good or better then my jeep was!  So I feel ya there, I can make two or three trips to your one for the same money so I have a distinct advantage there.

Maybe things will work out to your advantage soon!  I hope so because I love to see folks live the dream :)


Speaking of living the dream :)  This is the start of our wood shed and possibly ATV garage and/or work space for splitting kindling etc in the winter.

I was basically tired of trying to pry frozen wood out from under a frozen tarp in order to heat the cabin in the winter so we began our log wood shed :)

The boys decided it could become a cabin someday! haha but I suggested that if they liked the style of construction then perhaps in the future once the main cabin is done we could tackle a more rustic log structure.

However, to make this skeleton we had to cut and peel 18 logs this weekend!  That's a lot of work and the shoulders, arm and back are sore today!

But honestly?  It's living the dream! :)  [cool]

Well, I don't know about 2-3 trips... My 2000 F150 has the small 8 and doesn't do too badly for it's vintage, but it's got over 150K miles on it and is beginning to show it's age.  Next time I think I will try to find a diesel ... from what I've heard they are getting better milage than the gas ones - enough to justify the extra fuel cost and then some.  For those of you east of the Rockies, yes, Diesel is more expensive up here in the PNW than gas is.  From all my midwestern friends (and from living there for a while) I know it usually is cheaper back east.

So, on to the questions about your woodshed!  How did you plant those poles?  I have an idea for construction at my place that I hope to accomplish next year that requires a number of poles stuck in the ground like that.  Did you simply dig a hole, stick the pole in and fill it back up? or was there more to it?