Building a house through winter

[skinnersone1]

I built my own 20' by 20' garage and have helped various friends with their projects but I'd consider myself a novice carpenter.  I have a few questions if you folks would be so kind.

I will be building near Syracuse, New York which in winter gets alot of snow and can drop well below zero.  The soonest I can begin is mid august which really only leaves me 2 months before the first snowfall.  I figure by the first snowfall I should be able to have the basement and first floor completed including all the joists up and sheathed.  

I have seen that many of you have built on weekends and vacations and just kept the place well covered and seemed to be ok.  Will I face any challenges building through a cold and snowy NY winter (other than working in the cold).  For instance can it be bad for the wood for me to be cutting and nailing in low tems?  Cold seems to make things brittle.  Should I only work on more mild winter days or am I worried for nothing? :-/

I have a huge 80' by 80' tarp used to cover hay and can store all my tools and lumber in my garage which is already finished.

I will be building a basement.  I know a couple that lived in their basement while they finished the rest of their house.  I am on a strict budget and if possible I would like to do the same.  I am lucky in that power is very close to my site and was hoping to install power asap so I don't have to run generators.  I really don't want the expense of temporary power hookup.  Is it possible for me to add a main panel and run wiring in the basement, and first floor, and a few outside outlets before the 2nd floor and roof were complete?  Then upon completion just finish by wiring the upstairs.

[paul_s]

ah syracuse, my home town, i left there in 1990 and moved to North Carolina, do not miss the snow!!

what is it u are going to build what size home?


if the garage is done how far is it to the house?

u may be able to put a 200 amp service to it  then feeed to the house from thee in the future.  avoids the temp. power thing.  often all u have to have is  a light inside and outside and a few outlets.

i doubt the local authorities are going to let u live in a semifinished home, can be  done but often not  just depends on the inspectors and how  agressive they are but getting power may be a real problem often no occupancy permit  no power u will have to ask the authorities

take  a careful look at design and consider this  hire someone t o frame the outside walls and roof and get u under cover.

this is so labor intensive and when u get it done u will be physocoligically spent and the house  about 1/3 done.  i understand the tight budget been there and have done it.  if i do it again some one else will do doundation and dry it in.

as to winter building, i do not recommednd it, even in spaing and summer and fall the rain alone is a big enough problem wich is more to say for a crew in and out and u have the roof on and house framed

[glenn-k]

One of my great grandfathers cousins was run over by a bus in Syracuse.  Probably daydreaming like me. :-/

Looks like first mention of him I found was Binghamton- Still alive at that time.

The First Mass was said in the quickly fabricated Church by Father Dzialuk on Sunday, June 21,1914. Ordinary chairs took the place of pews; an organ was borrowed from the Stolarczyk family and Joseph Kangiser played it as the first organist of the parish. On Sundays, before the High Mass, which at times was late in commencing, Father Dzialuk, in his zeal for souls, would draw aside the curtain which separated the sacristy from the main body of the church, to see if a group of parishioners had arrived, by trolley from Endicott.

http://www.rootsweb.com/~nybroome/ssnew1.htm

 

Like you needed to know that.  I still have a few relatives in the area.  

That type of weather is too cold for me to attempt to do anything like build anything.  PEG would have more experience in trying something like that.

I did find this about Senco (PEG's favorite) nailers and frozen wood.

The FramePro 650, with 10 percent more power than the 600 model, should be used for laminated woods, frozen woods, trusses or wood-to-concrete block, or where .148" diameter nails are used for framing.

http://www.ovisonline.com/Woodworking_Supplies/Senco_Tool_Fastener/framing&.htm

[skinnersone1]

Great idea for putting the main in the garage.  Most of my power will be consumed there anyway. The house will be 15 feet away and I do intend on making a interior walkway between the two.  I have chosen the universal 2 story but will modify it to look more like a 1 1/2.

I am not worried about working in the cold for personal reasons.  I work as a ski and mountain guide and have spent most of my time on Denali, Hood, Ranier, so the cold is no big deal.  My buddy said wind can bite through clothes on a roof in winter, which he has done a bit of in northern NY.  I told him you should feel the wind at 20,000 feet .

When I built my garage in early spring I vertically placed (5) 4 by 4s on either side of the foundation (one side 4 feet lower than the other) and hung a tarp very tightly.  We did get some sideways rain when the wind was bad but for the most part my garage and I stayed dry.  We hung it in such a way that rain just shed off. No pools.  Only took my brother and I a day to set up and and hour to remove.

I was considering this same method although snow will accumulate where the rain didn't so I will have to knock it off when it builds up.  I am more concerned with any negative affects that building in the cold temps will have on the lumber and nails, etc.  I don't want to risk the integrity of the wood.

I should mention I live in a tent for 9 months a year already so roughing it is nothing new.  I intend to do everything myself, meaning no contractors whatsoever.  Mountain guides get crap pay so most of my coworkers revert back to construction, plumbing, etc. in the offseason and they have volunteered me their time.  I wish I could afford to have someone frame it in snug for me but that is way outside my means.  Thanks

[TBA]

Other than my arthritic hands screaming for mercy from time to time, I built through the winter with no harm done to the integrity of  the lumber (frozen), nails seemed to go in just as well as they do now.

[glenn-k]

I work as a ski and mountain guide and have spent most of my time on Denali, Hood, Ranier, so the cold is no big deal.

Ever meet Dahr Jamail - he is a climber - mountaineer from Denali area if I remember correctly .  Met him here a few months ago and donated to support his work reporting on Iraq - Middle East a bit now.

Toooo cold for me - left Oregon because of the cold North Santiam.

[skinnersone1]

I am soon to be 29 but my hands are bad too from some frostnip and from using ascenders and ice axes.  Gotta shake it out sometimes.  Hoping the hammer doesn't give me to much trouble.  

No I have never met him before.  Met alot of nice folks though a good number of whom were carpenters in the offseason to pay the bills. Guiding pays (if you divide pay by time on the mountain) about $3 an hour. :'(  But I would be on the mountain either way so may as well show some folks the way to the top and get paid at the same time.

Now if I were rich I would put one of these budweiser tents over my entire jobs site.  

http://www.bigtopshelters.com/sports_exhibition.htm

Here is a link about a farmer who put up a barn mid winter.

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/268144489HCKhzw

[glenn-k]

If you had one of those tents you probably wouldn't need a cabin.

[glenn-k]

That ground was trying to tell that farmer something -- he obviously didn't listen.  Still there has to be something said for having an excuse to break out the bigger toys.

[fourx]

Wouldn't the extra costs in lighting, the time lost in moving and storing, and re-storing gear in wet weather, and the loss of assesing dominant wind-flows, shading from any large trees, need for windbreaks and the  use of passive solar design in working out just where and how you can lay out the structure to obtain maximum fuel-free heating and cooling outweigh the need for an instant building start?
I bought a trailer and lived in it onsite for six months while I dug foundations ( and worked fulltime in town)- in the course of that six months I changed the layout and North-South angle three times, and in the last 15 years it's saved me thousands in power costs. Why rush? If you buy a trailer, you can sell it again after the house is up-that's what I did.

[skinnersone1]

I would love to be able to spend alot of time tinkering around with various details unfortunately as I work very far from home (minimum of 2000 miles or so) I can't come home from work and then work a few hours here and there. On the mountain it is not possible to think about that kind of stuff. 

To keep everything dry I will use a tarp set up as described above.  It worked in the rain so I am hoping snow will not be much more dificult.  I have a garage 10-15 feet away and it should fit all the building supplies that I will need to store at any one time.  My tools will be right there handy so there will not be much to put away and take out every day.  My brother who devised the tarp roof told me I should connect the tarp to the garage and that way have 3 sides of my site covered.  Smart kid.

Less light you got me there

I am building in the middle of ten acres which is a square in shape.  The building site is 100% surrounded by trees.  I have owned this property for several years now.  I am in a rush because if I don't start now then I most likely won't ever start.  This is mostly a place where I can call home when I am not working.  I have a very tough climbing schedule lined up over the next few years and each expedition can last a month or so and you lose motivation to do anything but recuperate after a climb.

I figure start while I am fresh and then I will be forced to finish  I actually considered buying a trailer but moving an older trailer twice was not something I wanted to do.  I was going to build a smaller cabin first.  An 18' by 24' studio type with loft.  I decided against the plans I had when I stumbled across this site.  Jimmy from Texas had a house that looked liked it would be perfect for me so I ordered up the plan.  

As far as passive solar design I hadn't given it much thought.  To be honest I never heard the words before joining this forum.  I have looked into it since.  My girlfriend chose where she thought the house would look prettiest and we set my garage there so I am pretty committed to the spot.  However I am looking into ways to be energy efficient.  

[fourx]

""I figure start while I am fresh and then I will be forced to finish "" I agree- there is no better source of motivation- and  the winters I deal with are absulutly nothing compared with what you have described...a Google on passive solar, or a seperate thread here, where there are so many who have done what you are doing would be well worthwhile, I think.

[paul_s]

i built a home in 1977 just outside of syracuse and lived  there until 1990, syracuse only gets 80 days of sunshine a year.  passive solar is nice but  not a lot of bennifit in syracuse, insulate well!!

[FrankInWIS]

skinnersone1
from your persistance in the face of some of these replies, I think you'll do great.   Between you and some help, with your youth and determincation, you'll make it happen.  Go for it!  Don't think the tools or wood act much diferent at 15 or 50, but you'll need to always watch your footing and such with the snow and ice patches here and there.  

[peg_688]

Building in winter is tough , so you have to be tougher! Back in R.I. we'd put in two or three  foundation before the frost hit , digging a hole in frozen ground can be next to impossible  most equipment operators won't do it , tears up the equipment to much.

So get your ground work done , there will be days you just can't work , to much snow , to windy for the job at hand , like sheathing a roof , ain't gonna happen on a day when the wind is blown 40 MPH with gust to 60 MPH

If your a cold weather climber you should know the drill , I doubt your tough enought , most arn't , hell I've done it enought to know when to say when and pull the plug / go home.

I don't like to work outdoors all day when it gets below 25 F or so , to darned cold , everything takes to much effort. Working is not playing , rock climbing is play , you'll find your mind will wander to "how cold is it" more often working than climbing .IMO it comes down to mind over matter , can YOU make YOURSELF work when it's cold Like I said , most can't. Generally I'm the last guy to say OK pickum up , the rest of the crews / guys are glad to hear it  

There are a few issues compressor can get bawkie , you'll have to break frozen studs/ lumber apart from each other  at times , a good wack on the end generally will breakum apart, but other than that no harm will become of the wood. Thing will be slippery like some one else noted , it's hard to mark frozen wood to lay out wall plates , but it can be done .

Like I said it comes down to are you tough enought , Humm might make a catchy song title , "Are you tough enought!"   George Therogood and the destroyer perhaps ??

Good luck , you'll need it  ;)PEG    

[glenn-k]

I already gave up and moved to California.  I'm a wimp.  I admit it.  No more cold for me.  The last winter I worked in Oregon I had to heat my toes in my boots with a oxy/acetylene torch so I could feel them.  That was it.   :'(

[MikeT]

Because of work related travel and delays in excavation, I ended up getting the foundation of my house poured right around New Year's Day.  Then came the framing.  In Oregon, the cold is one thing, but the rain was the real drag.  Mud is slick, and so is wet wood.  Framing when it is raining is just a drag.  I tried to find other things to do because it was hard to measure, mark, cut, and nail when it is pouring.  I think snow might be easier, but I do not know.  Even when I used tarps, the wind would howl and blow them around, pull out the tarps from their hold downs, tear out grommets, etc.

I do know that water will find a way into so many things that one just can't imagine.  

I am glad that by this winter I will be weathered in.

Good luck from another weekend warrior who weathered a winter while doing what should be done in the summer.

mt

[skinnersone1]

Frank.  I hope it doesn't appear that I only accept advice from those who say what I want to hear.   I know what I prefer to do but my mind was not made up before I asked the question.  I am not of those people who asks for advice and only listens to what suits them.  I fully understand that I am the least experienced of anyone on this forum and that's why I asked the questions.

I really would like to get started for the reasons I have mentioned above.  But only if the building will not suffer from working in winter (cold) conditions.  I know it probably sounds like a novice question so I appreciate everyones candor.  Seems for the most part everyone agrees that if properly covered I should be ok.  Most concerns are not with tools and lumber as much as personal safety and comfort.

PEG, thanks for the comments.  Read alot of you posts and comments seems that you're a little famous around here .  Loved  the toy chest and tables you posted on another thread.  Yes if I go ahead with this project before winter I will make sure that I at least have my basement in well before the freeze.  No digging in winter for me..  I think I will take Pauls advice and sub out at least the foundation.  This would be done before the end of august.

I understand construction is tough and by giving my mountain experience I wasn't implying that it gave me superhuman ability to pound nails and lay block.  More related to being used to long hours in low temps.  I have to disagree with one comment you made though.  I work as an alpine guide which means extreme temps and some pretty descent altitude for long durations and I have never considered it play. At high altitudes your appetite drops to nothing and your body begins to consume itself.  After several days without a #2 it quickly loses any similarities with what I consider  play.  There is also serious risk of edema, avalanches, falls, rockslides, hypothermia, frostbite, cardiac arrest, etc.  

That said your right and I never really considered that angle.  When I climb in bitter cold I sometimes find myself thinking wow this is freezing I just might die I wish I had a warm place to rest.  So I 100% agree that my mind will wander to "this is freezing" even more when I am working with a 2 by 8 but that is because I can quit anytime and go inside. The question is will I :-/?  I am going to take the advice and run power to my garage and also hook up a wood stove.  That way at least I can get something warm to drink and heat my toes.  Unlike glenn I don't own an oxy/acetylene torch.  I can keep my tools in there as it is so close to the house location and that should keep them ready to go when called upon.  

Thanks all.

[sherab]

Where are you building in N.Y. skinnersone1? I am in Ithaca myself and I know exactly what you mean. Bought my ten acres just so I have a place to call home after next year when Ill be gone myself six months out of the year.

Julian

[peg_688]

 #1:PEG, thanks for the comments.  Read alot of you posts and comments seems that you're a little famous around here .  

 #2:   I understand construction is tough and by giving my mountain experience I wasn't implying that it gave me superhuman ability to pound nails and lay block.  


 #3: So I 100% agree that my mind will wander to "this is freezing" even more when I am working with a 2 by 8 but that is because I can quit anytime and go inside.



#4:  The question is will I :-/?  


#5:    I am going to take the advice and run power to my garage and also hook up a wood stove.  That way at least I can get something warm to drink and heat my toes.  

Thanks all.

#1: Some say infamous  

#2: Sure you where


#3:   One of the guys I used to work with is a climber , he moved to Bamfi (sp), up in Canada cause he loves to ice climb , workin is different than climbing , as you point out it easier to quit / go home when it gets uncomfortable.

#4:  Thats my point while your standing around trying to figger out your next move / thing to do you'll get a chill and then you'll think will I'll just go inside for a couple of minutes  , ya know til I figger out whats next. As a pro the key is keep moving and witha knowledge base thats a lot easier to do . Just like on those long climbs , accents you know what the next move is .

 That where you may have troubles keeping all the not familar jobs straight and moving forward / keeping warm by working .

For a DIY  a winter build will be harder is all I'm sayin , so it comes down  is are you tuffenuff, The fabalous thunderbirds BTW not ole George therogood  

 

#5: That will be a good idea a warm lunch , warm the feet etc , like I said before good luck . We'll be here for ya where it's nice and warm    Or at least not as cold as where your building  

[outhouse]

One issue comes to mind, are you building with codes? Inspections might be a little tougher over winter. Just a thought.

You might want to plan on starting a fire and keeping it going for the day when you work. Rock fire pit or steel drum. It will give you something to do when you're between daily projects-go grab a piece of wood and throw it on the fire, warm your hands, think of what you'll need next.

Depending on whether you're building with codes or not, plan/visualize every last detail- every last piece, even how you'll do it. Like Glen's tag says-from the general to the specific. I might be thinking of lumber and leave out the hardware or things I'm not as familiar with in order to keep an idea flowing, then go back and investigate the gray areas.

You kind of answer your own question when you talked about appetite and comfort. Try to keep yourself as comfortable and happy as possible. I find simple stuff like when I was a kid-cookies and coolaid does the trick as long as I have something substantial when I need it.

Solar planning has alot to do with the relation between your eave, wall or window, and summer and winter sun angles. In summer, the sun is high like a pine tree you can't see the top of out your window, in winter it is low like an apple tree you can see the top of out your window. The idea is sun coming in will warm the house in winter and sun kept out will cool it in summer. They have precise info and tools with this kit: http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings/29.html  Another basic for landscaping is to use deciduous trees on East, West, and South sides and evergreen on the North side. This also allows sun in the winter, shade in the summer, and a windbreak to north cold winds. One can take this a lot farther, but those are the basics. Remember east and west give you longest shadows. Not so much on the north and south.

Cold yes, but you might not have full-blown winter till mid Dec. with luck on your side.

[fourx]

As outhouse says, solar planning is a catch-all phrase which really means building to suit your site, not some vague suburban ideal ( I'm not saying this applies to your building concept, but it does happen) and then cursing for the next thirty or forty years the missing features that, with a little thought, could have been included to make everyday living in a home so much more enjoyable- and so much cheaper- accesings wind-flows and shading, drainage and seepage and even something as basic as 24/7 access for 12 months of the year, if that's an important consideration.
Here in Australia, where heat not cold is a major consideration for nine months of the year I used one metre ( three foot and a bit)  wide eaves and shutter hinges on the windows, so that they open right back to the wall to assist air flow, and when I built the place I started at 5 am, finished at 11, and did another two hours from 5 pm to 7...