Need advice on building a small home

[peternap]

Sorry CWhite...I drift off subject sometimes.

What is the budget for this project?

[CWhite]

Throwing a bomb into the conversation.....
You might consider just putting a camper on the property with a generator, and haul water.
The gypsy life style is really quite comfortable.  I have been living in a 35 year old airstream travel trailer for over a year now.  They come with water heaters, showers, toilets, a bit of storage, electricity (battery or ac),  beds, windows, refrigerators and stoves, doors, wheels,  and are in your budget if you're willing to clean it up and make a few cosmetic repairs. 
You also, may not have to worry about codes at all either. 
Trust me,  they may be a luxury way to travel and camp, but living in one feels primitive.

I paid $2000.00 for my airstream, and it is 23 feet long with all the fixins.  It's not pretty, but it is a fine trailer, and I am very comfortable in it. 

Then, after you build your dream cabin, you could sell it or use it for traveling.
Just a thought.
Christina

[peternap]

You might consider just putting a camper on the property with a generator, and haul water.

That's what I was leading to with the budget. We're using a camper until the cabin is finished.

[FrankInWI]

as mentioned earlier.... it won't hurt to go in and sit down and ask the planning dept at the county for some help.  You might be surprised and find someone who really wants to help you get to your dream....

"They HELPED me find a suitable classification in the state law that I could build without making it into a "dwelling".   "Fishing and Hunting Shelter" it was... I was all excited till I talked to the township building inspector.  He would have no part of it. He said he'd have to treat that as a dwelling and it's having to meet all inclusions and codes.  My township isn't as remote as yours though...maybe you wouldn't have that conflict.
The definition was that it be less than 960 sq and used for the aforementioned activities, with overnight lodging intermittently, and no permanent plumbing.  Guy can do a lot with that description.
Staying legal could avoid heartache, headache and cost later maybe. "

Although the local township put the cabash on the Fishing and Hunting Shelter, then he said "pull the permit for storage", then do what you want with it after I am gone.   I havn't had him back yet, I hope he is good for his word!   I do have a garage / upper two lots away and I don't think it is a "dwelling" either, but it's obvious the upper is a living unit.  Just don't put up a mail box or other obvious residense things....

[Woodswalker]

As a former hydrologist in Minnesota for many years, I must endorse the above-ground approach.  To build my cabin out here in WA, I first built an outhouse and brought in a small travel trailer.  Local permit boys were perplexed with what to do when they discovered my half-built cabin.  They resolved their problem by deciding to call it a "recreational outbuiding," rather than a residence.  Later I found out the county ordinance allows structures in that class that are less than 300 sq.ft. to be built without permits.  Mine is 320.  Also found out that even though numerous violations have been turned over to the county attorney for prosecution over the past 15yrs, not one was pursued.  It's the poorest county in the state, and they want development, ANY development.  Don't let the permit folks scare ya.  They operate just like the IRS - mostly bluff and bluster.

Welcome to the Forum.  Lots of good advice and experience 'round here.

Steve

[FrankInWI]

Good point about the no-fee permit. Here it is 200 sq ft or less.   I agree with the alternate name aproach too.  When I first started talking to the permit guys I was calling the building a "cabana", like a pool day room.  They were cool with that....just be careful how obvious you get in making it a dwelling ....until after their final inspection. 

[desdawg]

Sometimes, depending on my exposure, I decide that I would rather beg for forgiveness than ask for permission. So far I haven't had to do any begging. Knock on wood. 

[glenn kangiser]

The permits are in violation of our Constitutional rights and or Bill of Rights.  Don't feel too bad if you occasionally forget to enter into a contract with the illegal entity agreeing to give them money and authority to hassle you. 

I'm not saying don't get permits.  I'm not saying fight them.  It's much easier to roll over and pay them off than it is to fight for your rights because many of the Color of Law maritime court Judges will rule for them anyway.  (Check out the flag in your court.  If it has a Gold Fringe it is a maritime flag).

I feel they have their place-- for when they are protecting people who can't build for themselves from unscrupulous contractors - contractors law --.  They have no place regulating owner builders who build out of necessity to house their family under pursuit of happiness or any other individual's rights granted by the Constitution.

See also UCC 1-207 about entering into contracts - with county - schools -- tickets - IRS 1040 etc. in mind.  Whenever you sign to agree to something you are entering a contract.  This provision can help you even with the IRS -- do you really want to sign that 1040 under penalty of perjury without this protection - in case you may have forgot something.  A little off to the side here but not really when you think of how it applies to your permit contract.  Don't be afraid to line out things you don't agree with. 

If you feel like studying up a bit   

Quote from a site listed:

   

WARNING: WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO READ IS HAZARDOUS MATERIAL. PLEASE DO NOT ACT ON THIS INFORMATION WITHOUT ACCEPTING FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS.
   

http://www.landrights.com/
http://www.landrights.com/NoTrespassing.htm
http://www.landrights.com/UCC_1-207.htm
http://www.landrights.com/fbi-color-of-law.htm
http://teamlaw.org/
Team Law
http://www.constitution.org/proppriv.htm
Property and Privacy Rights

http://www.budgetcorporaterenewals.com/html/invisible_contracts.html

I have only skimmed this but it is some info on how things got this way.  Presented only for you reading pleasure.
http://usa-the-republic.com/items%20of%20interest/Special%20Maritime%20Exposed.pdf

[pericles]

Glenn got me started here, so my first piece of advice is: defer to him in all things!

That said, I would be real careful before picking legal fights with the county.  State and municipal zoning ordinances were deemed constitutional in a case called Euclid v. Ambler, and have been recognized as such for nearly a full century.  Also, in reference to the UCC (the Uniform Commercial Code) be aware that most states that have enacted it have only held it to govern transactions involving movable property, usually expressly excepting real estate transactions, it does not, in ANY state, govern ALL contracts.

Sorry for case notes guys, but I've sucked down so many good tips from so many experienced builders and carpenters here that I feel compelled to give something back when I have anything to share (I'm an attorney - don't hate me!)

[peternap]

I'm an attorney - don't hate me!)

Dear God! Not on a board that involves work

Most of us, including Glenn, know that your correct. We just don't like it. You are right about picking a fight. They have better enforcement than we have defenses.

There is more than one way to handle the local Government though. You can stand up in patriotic defiance ....and pay the lawyers a princely sum and still probably lose....

I'm more of a shoot and scoot type of person. I can sit in a tree where the local government can't see me. When they come near, take a whizz. They still don't see me, think it's raining and I get to giggle in my Non Approved Dwelling.

Moral of this off color post is ...Stay under the radar!

[desdawg]

Barrister Pericles,
We won't hate you. Heck we won't even tell any lawyer jokes now that we know you are here.  
I have never responded well to "authority". And it seems that everyone wants to tell us how to live and then charge us for the disservice. Some things should be sacred and out of reach of all of that. I haven't read Glenn's links myself, and since I am not an attorney wouldn't know what is right or wrong anyway.   Thanks for the "heads up".

[peternap]

Heck we won't even tell any lawyer jokes now that we know you are here.

Now wait a minute Des....I'm the only non-lawyer in my family. I married a Judges Daughter......I can't live without lawyer jokes

[peternap]

Wait a minute....I used to work for the Government....State and Federal! Oh the shame of it all!

[pericles]

My wife and I went for a swim out on the lake Eerie by Cleveland not too long ago, all the way to a small island not far off the beach.  While we were there, sharks started to swarm, and she was terrified.  I jumped right in, and swam to shore, where I got a skiff to come sail her back in.  When she asked me how I knew the sharks wouldn't tear me to pieces while I swam to shore, I told her "professional curtasy."

Seriously though folks... I'm a prosecutor in PA.  (We don't do code enforcement cases, if you were wondering.)

[Redoverfarm]

Pericles

My wife is a para-legal and worked for the PA in WV for 21 years. Make the best of what time we have on the green side of the dirt and treat others as we would want to be treated.  I was in law enforcement (I know I should have never told THEM) 25-1/2 years and lived by that moto.  When I came across someone that I had to take some action I did it to where I could sleep at night and never had to look over my shoulder.  After all that time dealing the darker side of society I still believe there are more good people than bad in this world.  Now that I am retired I hang with the good ones.

[NorthernMich]

nice way to live dry and beat bullets might be to building using ICFs

insulated concrete forms...a quick search will help.

Earl

[glenn kangiser]

Welcome to the forum, Pericles.  How's construction going on the Parthenon?hmm

Glad I got you stirred up enough to pop in here and bless us with a bit of your knowledge.   If you can find the courage to do that then I think we can find it in our hearts to forgive you. 

Seriously, it is great to have you here.  We like any professionals who are willing to share and not be a jerk about it.  We had a building inspector here for a bit but he was a real jerk so he kind of got chased off.

As you may have noted -- I put the disclaimer for anybody who may try to assert their lost rights, but still wish to inform them for their own education.  It likely would open up a can of worms and even most lawyers probably wouldn't touch it...but... if you know some of this stuff and realize that today things are not the way they were meant to be you may occasionally win a little victory here and there.

It may help you to try to stand up and get what you can that is yours at least once in a while.  Realize that likely you will not win but you won't always lose.  If you don't know anything about it, then you have no chance at all so you just as well roll over and not even try.

I refused an audit by the IRS a few years back -- we got into a giant pi$$ing contest.  I sent letters and affidavits every time they would reply and threaten me .  A friend told me always talk to them no matter what.  Never fail to respond to one of their challenges.   I fought them for a year and a half.  An enrolled agent I hired to help deal with them said I could be assured that every Agent in the state of California knew who I was.  He suggested I talk to the auditor -- he got him to limit his request to one point.  He said he thought I did not turn in all of my income.  I proved I did and he immediately sent back an "accepted as filed". 

I looked at hassling them back as a great hobby and well worth the money I spent for entertainment value.  I consider it a win.

If you don't enjoy scrapping with authority - don't try it, it could end up costing you or lately -- get you tasered  -- even if you are a pregnant woman, one of their latest victims.

I also chased the irrigation district guys off of my land as they tried to widen their right of way because the canal was moving my way. They threatened me with a lawsuit.  I played dirty pool there -- told them I and a bunch of environmentalist friends were going to make them remove all of the blacktop they put in the canals in all of Fresno county, to prevent erosion.  I told them it was polluting our wells and they needed to pay for new ones.  They called me back shortly after receiving my letter and told me they thought we could work something out.

In another case, the county decided they were going to enact permit fees for well drilling.  The head of the drillers association said it was a done deal and nothing could be done about it.  I said -- Oh yeah?  I called the TV  stations - told them what was up -- they came to my drilling rig -- did a report and aired it that night.  The county's switchboards were jammed solid the next morning.  They dropped it and said they just wanted the phones to stop ringing.

So -- yeah -- little chance of winning most of the time, but when you do -- it's really sweet.

So -- where was I -- oh, yeah, Pericles, --  hope you hang around here and bring these guys back to reality whenever I try to send them down the path to destruction. .

It's not just the education you get studying this stuff.  It gives you a whole new outlook on dealing with these issues.

[glenn kangiser]

Wait a minute....I used to work for the Government....State and Federal! Oh the shame of it all!

Peter, My wife works for the Feds.  Imagine the conflict in my mind there.

And we have a good internet friend of mine here that is an ex-fed also.  He thinks I'm funny and is a great guy. 

So  -- If I step on any toes -- sorry -- It's not you I'm after --- really -- I'm after the whole system.

I found out that I'm anti-authoritarian. The shrink voice in my head found it on the internet and told me.   

So jump on in here if you are one of the authority types.  Jump on in here  -- we won't even make you confess your sins --- share with us and we'll share with you and probably even enjoy each others company.

[peternap]

Peter, My wife works for the Feds.  Imagine the conflict in my mind there.


Glenn, My state work was regulatory and mostly engineering work. I had to make the power companies behave . Aside from being truly disappointed in the quality of our state agencies, it was pretty quiet.

The next 5 years was criminal work with a Federal fugitive task force. That left a lot of scars....both physical and emotional. Funny, I was digging around for my handcuffs this week for my uninvited guests.

After that I became self employed and much happier

I found out that I'm anti-authoritarian. The shrink voice in my head found it on the internet and told me.

I've always been that way. Dad tried to cure it by sending me to Military School. Just made me meaner.

[glenn kangiser]

I haven't always been that way. 

Just since I had a teacher in the second grade who taught me about the government, it's history, it's goals and  to question authority.  

She didn't skim over it.  I don't remember most of it now but I remember her teaching us words and  meanings such as bourgeoisie (propertied class) and proletariat (working class)--(had to look that up). 

She taught us how the ruling class tried to keep the peasants down in the dirt.  I want to stand up just tall enough to keep from getting my knees dirty.

I have been self employed since 1974 at which time I found out it was impossible for me to work for anybody else because it was not possible for me to submit to authority.   (Unless it was to my great benefit ---- to pretend to submit.)

[desdawg]

I was digging around for my handcuffs this week for my uninvited guests.
Peter, you know bears can't eat handcuffs. 

[peternap]

Sure they can Des......You just have to wash them off a day or two later

BTW....My uninvited Guests became the invited guest pf the county yesterday!

[desdawg]

How cool is that Peter? Was it the same guys that were on camera?

[glenn kangiser]

You caught your uninvited guests, Peter?  Tell us more.

[MountainDon]

Whoo Hoo! Good going, Peter.

I hope the court gets to show them the error of their ways.

I've not had a ny problems, so far (knock wood... ) but a camera should could be good to have.