Glad to see links and talk of Mike Oehler in this good group. Never have seen any other forums discuss him too much. Hope I will not write too much and I will not hold back. I tell what I think even if it is not as eloquent or nice as many would write.
I knew Mike Oehler twenty years ago. I put a couple links to his books etc. on my links page on my website mainly because I read his underground book in 1982.
In late April 1983 I even went up to N. Idaho to see him. The
first time I only stayed a few days. But in May
and June 1986 I stayed with Mike Oehler on his forty
acres of beautiful N. Idaho land. He was by himself
then. Mike Oehler is very interesting but was and
probably still is an old hippie. I did like Mike Oehler and he is one of the very most interesting people I have ever met. Hope I can be as interesting and I try, but I will probably never be as famous etc. as he is. And I really do not want to be famous, rich would be ok but I have learned to do without also...
But Mike Oehler's land and buildings are beautiful and
extremely interesting.
I helped Mike Oehler plant a garden which I did about
all of it that spring of 1986. He has at least thirty hilly acres and
ten flat acres with good farm land. No spring or
well though. He had a pipe with a handle which I
think was city water or treated from the nearest town
anyway. He had to fill glass jugs - wine bottles
then carry these bottles up and over his hill to his
underground and other buildings. I carried one or two about every day. He also only had an outhouse which was fine by me.
I also carried many boxes of books up and into his
newest underground house. I also put those books on
the shelves. I tried to read a little, especially
many titles. He said I should hurry up for there was
a million things to do. A little nervy for not
paying me anything except a little food. But no one is perfect specially me. He has his ways like everyone does. I did do a Lot of work for him. I also hauled out quite a few wheelbarrow loads of dirt where he was trying to
finish his newest underground - $2000 house. I mainly dug much more on his fallout shelter, the deepest part of his underground house. Very
interesting to have a fallout shelter - bunker under
the underground house.
His new house was also two
stories underground with the library and one other
small room upstairs. I did not stay around to see
his new house finished for he was going to have other
people there in the summer. I left in late June
just before the others came. I could imagine it
would be one big beer and pot party much of the time. I do not like being around too many people anyway.
I also got tired of so much work and not too much
food. Good and interesting experience though. And I kept thinking I Have to get my own place. Doing so much work is better doing it for yourself and many times does not seem like work making your own buildings and retreat...
I also cut, split and stacked a Lot of firewood for
Mike Oehler. He used one of his large chainsaws to
cut down at least twenty large trees but I had to
carry, split and stack I think at least a years supply
of firewood. I don't mind doing hard work and any
can see on my website the great deal of work I have done on my land
also almost completely by myself. I just don't
like being rushed or hurried. That Is what I don't
like about almost all jobs. Almost every job I have ever had is Never fast or good enough. Especially never fast enough.
Mike O did let me sleep in his partially underground
bunkhouse. Most was quite rustic but not as rustic
etc. as my mtn. place. I liked his $50 underground
house which he was still living in when I was there in
!986. But even then some boards were pushed out and
it was starting to get runned down.
Mike Oehler had many buildings even in 1986 when I was
there. Two sheds, two underground houses, a
bunkhouse, a treehouse very small, an outhouse with black plastic, an underground sauna - heated with a woodstove
like all his buildings were and a nice underground
greenhouse which he was not using when I was there.
He did not need the greenhouse too much with his
large garden. But Mike Oehler was able to have so
much because he had much of his work done by other
people who visited him. In his underground house
book he has many pics of the people who did most of
the work building it. He said even a couple college
guys from Princeton paid him a hundred dollars to stay
and work on his land. Mike Oehler spent and maybe
still spends winters traveling to colleges and expos
selling his books and giving seminars which is his way
of making money - probably a great deal more than I
make. But I would never like public speaking or
traveling to cities and colleges. I also hate to
ask anyone anything much less having anyone do most of
my work which most probably will never happen.
At least I can
Mtn. Mike: I did a bit of editing to take out information and opinions that could possible be considered too personal or defamation of character. We need to remember this is a broadcast media and very public. You could be held liable for your public statements.
Very interesting experiences, MountainmanMike.
I did the time for my uncle remodeling an old homestead. Payment was knowledge, experience and food. I think the thing that one carries away from this type of experience is the knowledge drilled into your mind that you would never get any other way. It will be there for the rest of your life.
I would write more but have to go sell my body for money for a few days.
Please continue on with your stories as you have time before we lose you to your summer away from it all. Thanks for sharing with us. Glenn
Many of the prolific alternative building authors carried their projects on the backs of underpaid students. And that is probably as it should be.
Working with Ken Kern was pretty basic. Myself and another architecture graduate spent a summer and fall at Ken's place in Oakhurst, CA putting together experimental structures, doing drawings and photos for his books and designing the small houses he was always being asked to do.
Ken was always generous with the small amount of money that came his way and always included credits for work we did (as associates! :)).
Of course there are even bigger projects such as Arcosanti (http://www.arcosanti.org/project/background/soleri/solare/SOLARE.swf) and even Yestermorrow (http://www.yestermorrow.org/) that get this even more organized into a community or even something closer to a school.
Ken Kern and Mike Oehler were much less formal about their internships - but their work has still influenced many people - more than just Mike, Glenn and I.
Historically, I think, you always had apprentices doing most of the work in exchange for a place to stay & food, but most of all to learn a trade. When I was getting my nursing degree, I spent 2 days a week in clinical experience (working in the hospitals, learning the different types of nursing ie surgical, med/surg, labor & delivery, etc). We were not paid for that work.. but what we learned & experienced were invaluable for our future employment.
Interesting story, Mike... we have Oehler's videos & books - lots of good information in them - very creative & original ideas for building an underground cabin - then of course, Glenn has gone on from there! The idea of the uphill patio & window placement - you don't even feel like you are underground. We still have lots to do - its a work in progress... But is very liveable & comfortable. We've also used mostly "bug kill" trees or trees that others have cut down from their building sites.
Maybe its about time for me to get my own posse. :o
But you have to feed them?? DANG!
I went through Arcosanti in passing one time about 10 or so years ago. I wasn't real impressed - I don't think the interns had their hearts set on keeping the place up. :)
Then again - I wasn't sure what they were trying to accomplish. I thought it may have been selling overpriced cast brass bells. :-/
Shucks, John, don't they usually work for beans? [smiley=laugh.gif]
There is a little problem with feeding a large group of people working closely together massive amounts of beans, Billy Bob. :-/
Thinking about Mike Oehler's contribution to society, I think we may have had to go many years forward, or hundreds of years backward to find similar construction methods and we probably would never have learned the exact concepts Mike brought to us.
I think his ideas and methods of building at very low cost underground as well as being able to get light in from all points of the compass by various methods are unique to him.
The fact that he went ahead and had rule of thumb engineering designed and published so all could build safely at very low cost is also something no others have done that I know of. Engineers most times want to design each structure as one of a kind. No money to be made from rule of thumb tables. I think we owe Mike for this too.
Sometimes the value of learning from someone who knows cannot have a price put on it. Without their input it may be a long time or never. A few written or spoken words from someone like Mike Oehler can replace a lifetime of hit and miss experimentation.
Thanks for the comments everyone. It was almost exactly twenty years ago that I was working with Mike O and I remember it all like it was yesterday. That is how unique and interesting an experience it was.
It was not a perfect experience and almost nothing ever is. Working by myself on my own mtn. place sometimes is about as close to perfect experiences though especially seeing a new wild animal such as all kinds of weasels such as ermine, or goshawks etc. etc.....
Especially I remember pushing a loaded wheelbarrow up and out of Mike O's underground house was not easy. But did many things as I said such as planting his big garden seemed like 1/2 an acre garden, carrying many boxes of books up into his library which was and hopefully still is on the second floor of his $2000 underground house. Also cutting, splitting and stacking an awful lot of firewood and a few other not as important things also.
Most of his buildings were not too fancy compared to todays fancy terribly expensive houses. Such as his underground sauna was like an underground cabin with no windows and a woodstove with pan of water and rocks. There was two levels like a sauna has...
You all have hopefully seen pics of his greenhouse? I think there is a link on this site or just look on a good search engine for Mike Oehler s underground greenhouse...
I have dug the hole and cut most of the logs and hopefully this summer I will finish my mostly underground solar greenhouse that I told about more on my site... I salvaged a large picture window this past winter, now I just have to get it up to my land then carry it over 200 feet up onto my sunny hillside where I will have my underground greenhouse. I have other windows also and screendoor etc.. with log frame...
In 1999 about a dozen people did come up to my mtn. place and visit me. Two guys helped me some. One only there for one day. The main guy stayed over night sleeping in his pickup. I guess he did not want to sleep in one of the few tents I own. But he did do a lot of work with me. A couple weeks earlier I had helped him build his fancy chicken coop on his farm in N. Colorado. He helped me carry the two steel doors that I put on my underground shelter-bunker. Also he used his good chainsaw and cut up a few trees and helped me carry those. I did not think it was too much work but maybe he did. He never has come back up to my mtn. place. But it is over 220 miles from his farm to my mtn. place. A lady a little older than me with her 14 year old son came clear from Washington state to see my mtn place and fish also in August 1999. I was like a fishing guide for a few days showing them Silver Lake which is 3 miles from my mtn land, on a 4x4 road.
The remoteness of my mtn. place is one big reason that most never come up to visit or help me. And the high price of gas I think I will not see possibly anymore. Every winter I ask in a few groups if any are interested to come up to see my place but no one since 1999....
But I have learned to handle being alone. I think crowded cities are the loneliest places with millions of uncaring people going their own way etc. In the wilderness and especially on my remote mtn. land I never feel lonely even when I am by myself all the time. There is an abundance of wild animals for company and entertainment :)
I just noticed that my long post was edited. Which is ok. I wondered if I could get away with posting some info. I did post a little I suppose too personal info. I was posting an experience or two that proved that Mike Oehler was and he probably still is an old hippie. Smoking .... and such to give a clue... In his books he tells a lot about himself with pics especially in his $50 and Up book. There is a pic of a guy with the caption saying reaching for his 17th beer. My copy is over 20 years old but surely the new ones have the same pics and info?? The $50 and Up Underground House book gives many clues to his lifestyle with good pics....
I would never pass as a true hippie for I have not and would not do things such as they have been famous for doing... I have learned from their and many others experiences and try not to make the same mistakes, which I think were, although others maybe do not think were mistakes. I try to live healthy, get a Lot of exercise etc..
Also since my time on the Internet will be done by mid June when I will go up to my mtn. place until Nov then If anyone has any questions for me please ask. Ask more about Mike Oehler and even about my mountain place and underground shelter..... I Will answer as well as I know how.....
Mike Oehler possibly would not remember me for he has had many many visitors and workers. It would be good to get his own comments If he would post in this good group....
I've noticed the same thing about cities and their people, Mike. A giant mass of people only caring about the one particular thing they want to do and don't get in their way. Break the individual out of the group and it can be a different experience -sometimes good - sometimes bad, but as a group, it is pretty well a giant uncaring mass.
My co-worker and I are from the mountains (or at least higher foothills). All we want to do when we go to the city to work is finish the job and get out of town - back to where the people are friendly (and know everything you have done since they have known you).
Mike O. told me one time, he wished he had the tools and equipment I had. The thing I like about the way he and friends did it was that he proved it could be done without a lot of equipmemt. How were the heavier logs lifted - any rigging?
Did you ever meet Chris Royer of Royer Foyer fame? (Think I got the name right- going from memory).
Thanks for the time you are taking to do this, Mike. :)
Glenn and all, I think cities are similar to ant colonies or bee hives. If any observe those you can see what I mean. I also think of the city as purgatory and the wilderness especially beautiful mtn. wilderness and my mtn. place as paradise....
The main piece of equipment I remember Mike Oehler having was a large chainsaw. He cut down it seemed like twenty trees which he said had mistletoe and had to be cut down anyway. I split and stacked them in two large firewood stacks. Just outside his $2000 house. That house which he was still building when I saw it in 1986 and it was only a little over half done then, was his fanciest building. He had some nice wood that I think he bought although he salvaged much especially for his other buildings. I liked when you walked into his $2000 house he had a pretty mushroom growing out of a wall. Although I think he shellac ed it... Seems like there should be pics somewhere on the internet of his $2000 house also. I think he said a Dutch tv crew filmed him in the mid 1980's.
I never saw any rigging and mainly just helped dig deeper especially his fallout shelter in his $2000 house. But he sometimes had so much help I bet they just lifted heavy logs probably used ropes etc...
I never met Chris Royer who I think was there in the mid 1970's with a crew who built Mike Oehler's $50 house or improved it. I have that interesting $50 and Up Underground House book packed away with many dozens of other books. I also gave away a couple copies.
I would like to build a house similar to Mike Oehler's but it takes an awful lot of digging. Most people probably should have a backhoe dig unless they have good help and strong backs. On my mtn. land 1/2 a mile from the Continental Divide is very rocky, the Rocky Mountains are well named. It took me about 3 months to dig the twenty plus foot hole for my underground shelter. The first couple feet was a lot of dirt with some rocks but then more and more rocks. I used a crowbar and tire iron to pry the rocks loose. Most of the rocks were the size of a softball to maybe a basketball. Although not round. The one pic that shows me in the hole holding a pick was for effect such as to show people that I was digging the hole. Holding a tire iron and prying out the rocks would not look the same as holding a pick. I then used a couple buckets then loaded a wheelbarrow and piled the dirt and mainly rocks thirty feet downhill. I had to pile the largest rocks some of which were 2 to 4 times the size of a basketball and some must weigh over 200 pounds, I had to pile these outside the front door of my underground shelter. I had to use a power pull - come a long tool to move the heaviest rocks and logs - The largest logs are tree trunks and I think can be seen in some of my pics on my site.
One more thing before I forget about Mike Oehler is that he also did try to get wild plants for food. Mainly he had fiddle head ferns and put these in a salad. I like dandelions for they are abundant and nutritious. The deer and other animals usually get wild plants and berries before I do though on my mtn. place.... especially squirrels and gray jays etc. get mushrooms before I do. Although I do not even try much with mushrooms for too many are poisonous and I have heard mushrooms are not too nutritious... I have planted grass, dandelions, raspberry and strawberries on the roof of my underground shelter as I have shown and told about in my site.....
Anymore comments or questions please just ask....
MM Mike
I agree with your observation of the city. Unless you deal with the people in a one on one basis then they do behave like an ant colony. Watch trafffic reports with pictures of large freeways -it becomes obvious. As you are in the middle of the moving mass of people such as on the freeway they are all intent on the one thing on their mind - getting to where they are going. Not much courtesy - just progressing in lurches - slow or fast until they finally shove their way to the ant trail that takes them to the place they want to go.
Do you have windows in your shelter, Mike. Also, I was wondering if you had French drains or other ways to keep your shelter dry. Seems with so much snow melt it would find it's way in. Thanks
Drainage is always a problem Glenn. I dug the hole for my underground shelter in 1995 and started putting in the poles, logs and roof in the summer of 1996. I did not get it done better until the last three years or so. In 1999 and 2000 I built my rustic cabin and a couple other buildings. For more storage etc.
When it rains is not too much a problem with drainage but it is the heavy snow melt in May and June. I have seen a couple inches of ice in the bottom of my shelter a few years ago and it did not melt until almost August! But the last three or so years I have carried uphill and over 200 feet from my vehicle and over two springs = at least 100 eighty pound bags of concrete just for my underground shelter. I mainly put a lot of concrete with drainage uphill from the one big window I have and around the back trap door. I hope everyone can see from the pics on my website. Lots of pics there and maybe not the best. Also maybe a little hard to see some things for I have camoflaged a lot of it. If any take time to read what I wrote describing the pics they can understand what is in the pics on my site.
I used the plans for my shelter from the Nuclear War Survival Skills book small pole shelter plans. It does not include or have any windows since it is a fallout and blast shelter.
I improvised and modified the plans to suit my needs. Since my mtn place is very remote and over 250 miles from the nearest stinkin big city - Denver, CO - I should not need a blast and Hopefully not even a fallout shelter. Although I think it could handle fallout also.
I did put in one big window as can be seen in a pic or two on my site. Not the best and maybe people have to read all of it and look carefully. But should be able to see the window surrounded by rocks and the camoflaged shed to the right of the window... It is an unbreakable window I salvaged from a factory I worked at. It seems to be unbreakable for there is usually at Least twenty feet of snow on it in the winter and it has survived well for about ten years now....
Again my site with pics which towards the end of the site hopefully everyone can see the pics of my window, concreted back trap door etc etc.. > http://free.hostdepartment.com/M/MMMtnman
I went to South Central Oregon a few years ago and went into an ice cave-- a lava tube with ice in the bottom year round-- since cold sinks and heat rises, the ice was still there throughout the summer. The heat never made it down there.
I reviewed the pictures again and saw the window. As with my place, it's a bit hard to figure out where everything goes with pictures. I have people get lost just going up from the inside to the roof. :)
mikes book was the first "alternative" type building book I purchased. Very cool, i even bought his hippies guide to y2k (b/c i like his writing).. a tough read when the year is 2003 and nothign happened..lol
I like the way he threw a rug on the dirt , plus the straw floor was neat..lol
That was interesting - he did put a poly vapor barrier under it. I thnk it would work well especially now that I have the plate compactor. The packed dirt or clay floor is a bit less hard than concrete and dropped dishes or glasses don't usually break.
He said the straw made him feel so----well, ---dirty --if I remember right. :)
Mike is first of all a good writer. His "PSP" building system would not be well known if it hadn't been invented by a good storyteller!
The Hippy Survival Guide (http://www.undergroundhousing.com/hippysurvival.html) is a good read. But, I'll bet not too many people have read "One Mexican Sunday (http://www.undergroundhousing.com/MexSunbook.html)". A great and warm hearted story about a period in his life when he was living in a poor rural village in Mexico.
Being a good Hippy is about a lot more than just smoking dope! ::) (There are "bad" hippies too, of course!)
BTW: Here is another "good old Hippy" (with a capital "H") who is also a good writer (and photographer) - Lloyd Kahn. His Shelter Publications (http://www.shelterpub.com/) is continually doing new work on alternative housing and other topics.
Lots of good comments in this thread thanks.
Packed away I have two copies of One Mexican Sunday and a couple copies of the $50 and Up Underground House book. The One Mexican Sunday book is personally autographed by Mike Oehler. Should have gotten his other books autographed also...
I like a lot of the ideas of hippies. I think too many have abandoned many of their ideas and lifestyle. Far too many have joined society, establishment whatever any want to call it. But there are still some who are still old hippies and possibly some young people are returning to a hippie lifestyle. Hope they learned from mistakes and do not do too many drugs etc. But I believe people should have freedom to make mistakes and learn. If they cannot learn from others mistakes... I have said that I do not think I would qualify as a typical hippie anyway. I cannot be labeled but if have to I would like to be known as a mountain man more like Jedediah Smith or he is not real but the tv Grizzly Adams even. I never trap but mainly observe wild animals etc. etc.
In 1992 I think it was, I went to a Rainbow Gathering near Paonia, Colorado. Was a long but nice drive and very interesting. I only stayed one night sleeping in a sleeping bag without a tent! It seemed like there were thousands there but probably not that many. Very unusual to see hundreds of lights mainly from campfires all over the hillsides.... I slept on one high hill looking down on it all. There was also that distinct smell too many associate with hippies. I am talking about that weed smoke smell... Not my favorite smell but it was interesting at least... About everyone was interesting to talk to also although I do not talk too much but mainly observe.
On my mtn. land is where I observe, build and Live more free than anywhere in any part of society. Hope I can live permanently on my mtn land someday but have to pay the no good property taxes etc....
Thanks for telling me about Arcosanti and the others you named. Never have heard too much about them but no one can know about everything...
One more thing I Have to mention is the Whole Earth Catalog. That was a very interesting and large catalog I think made mainly for hippies or at least alternative non-main stream society lifestyles. I should look it up on a search engine but just wondered if any of you have heard of it. I have a copy of the Whole Earth Catalog packed away also. It had a picture of Earth on its cover..
Yeah, I remember the Whole Earth Catalog. Wiki. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_Earth_Catalog) Last time I saw one was back in the 80's and I think it was the next volume. Probably still in my 'rents basement. I remember librarys censored it because there were some sexual things in it they didn't want kids to get ahold of, but I also remember all the good stuff in there, science, environment, you name it, it was in there.
Thanks for the info on WEC, guys. I guess I had heard of it -sounds familiar, but had never known what was in it.
Wiki was an interesting read. What dedication to start a project like this before the age of word processors.
442 pages - Amazon has one used at $69.00 16th edition 1975
Geez, I'm feeling a little, what, superannuated, maybe? [smiley=huh.gif]
The Whole Earth Catalogue was sort of an icon in its day, and could probably find a niche in today's "Green" society as a recycled idea. At any rate, it held a prominent place in my library, along with Eric Sloane's books, and the Foxfire series.
I think of myself as a former "wannabe" hippie; while I appreciated many of the ideas of the "movement", it seemed most of the "true" hippies couldn't get organized enough to accomplish much. [smiley=rolleyes.gif] Probably a dialectic inconsistency, "organized" and "hippies" in the same sentence.
Or maybe I' had it the wrong way around, and those I thought were hippies were the wannabees?[smiley=wink.gif]
Anyway I agree, lot's of good thoughts here. I think you nailed it MMMike, about the "true" hippie lifestyle. Many were attracted by the "free love and dope" aspects of the philosophy, but failed to grasp the idea of living in harmony, (with each other, the planet, the universe, etc.) When the "good times" failed to pay the rent, grocery bill, etc., the half-hearted "copped out", as the saying went, and returned to more traditional pursuits. Guys like Oehler and Kahn found a way to practice their philosophy and make it work.
Quote
442 pages - Amazon has one used at $69.00 16th edition 1975
Ah, thanks for the hint with Amazon. I found a used copy there for $4.99. And this time it will be shipped to Canada. 8-) Books, I can't get enough of them.
Jochen
Stewart Brand, a great writer in his own way (The Clock of the Long Now, How Buildings Learn), started the WEC. The inspiration was the NASA photograph of the earth taken from the moon.
Stewart understood that we could never again have the same limitless view of the earth. The earth really was round and not too big either! He also saw that this understanding would change society and the world. The WEC was there to provide tools for living with this "NEW" earth. It was idealistic and democratic and anti-establishment like all things "Hippy". It absolutely exuded freedom and self-determination. All we needed was better tools and clearer information. All things were possible.
This period of time was the birth of many concepts and mental pictures we now assume to be standard knowledge... ecology, global climate, habitat and species loss, carbon cycle, etc.
My attic is still filled with every edition and all the suppliments. It finally petered out with the death of idealism in the 1980's.
Extremely good comments everyone. Billy Bob, it is too bad most people will probably always think of hippies as dirty, deadbeats who practiced free love and smoked dope. Which too many did do. Especially too bad few understand the philosophy which is to live in harmony with nature, etc. That is also an Indian (native American) philosophy.
I try to mix philosophies that fit me best.... I also like alternative medicine, alternative building etc. etc.... I long ago gave up the middle class (boring) lifestyle.... No fancy house, wife, 2.4 kids and all that for me...
Also John, you say idealism died in the 1980's? Probably very true. But hopefully there are still a few such as Mike Oehler and many in this group who are still idealistic. Not sure about Generation X, Y and so on though...
Not sure where, but recently I read a theory that the far right/neocons had trashed the 60's. And managed to ignore all the people who became social workers, craftspeople, etc.
Even if at times they did live without running water (and thought that pachouli was a deodorant--it was sold that way) and smoked dope instead of drinking whiskey.
Interesting Amanda:
It was the neocon movement that did in the Peace & Love of the 1970's, but it wasn't a planned conspiracy - it was the intrusion of "reality". The "Hippy ideology" was doomed by human nature. It's a hard lesson that I and millions of other idealists of the time have had to learn.
Lesson One: Violence will trump Peace.
Lesson Two: Control and Power will trump Egalitarianism.
From lesson one it follows that there can be no peace, no matter how temporary, without someone having a monopoly on violence. We would like to think that the holder of that monopoly is fair and balanced - and that is why we have developed the "rule of law". In most cases, most people trust the police most of the time. It's not perfect, but it generally works and we more or less "all get along".
Lacking rule of law and a strong police monopoly on violence, thugs and warlords will setup their own monopoly and people will choose that over chaos and random uncontrolled violence. So peace, no matter how many people want it, can always be destroyed by the next group of thugs who are willing to exploit a new opportunity for violence. IE: Lets fly a plane full of fuel into a tall building!
From lesson two has come the whole neocon, neoreligious and neorighteous movement whereby the foundation of American openness and democracy has been circumvented by the control of anger through manipulation of fear.
I think I will stop there or we will have to move this entire thread over to the Rant section! :D
PS - I still do wish, "Love is all you need" was true.
You could be right about that.
But there may still be (about to retire!) plenty of people who spent their lives trying to live up to their ideals. I know quite a few, might be one myself, although for hippie and female, I was a little old--and also remember when hippie was a bad word but we didn't have a name for ourselves.
(John might one of them as well!)
QuoteJohn Raabe wrote: Lesson One: Violence will trump Peace.
Lesson Two: Control and Power will trump Egalitarianism.
I started reading
The Devil's Advocate by Taylor Caldwell, yesterday... it was published in 1952. They had the
FBHS "Federal Bureau of Home Security" along with constantly trumped up threats of terrorism from other nations. Canada, the United States & Mexico were called "The Americas" & there were eavesdropping devices all over the place to listen to conversations. The military was the most powerful organization & controlled everything. The Constitution, Bill of Rights & Declaration of Independence had been done away with.
The basis for the breakdown & takeover by the military & the "elite" was the new definition of the "common man" who was stirred up to expect that the gov't should provide everything for them. In the process the "common man" lost his initiative in being indendent & self-sufficient & no longer took pride in doing a job well. As more & more people started depending on the gov't for their subsistance, they, one-by-one, gave up their freedoms until they lived in a totalitarian system. Only the "elite" top bureaucrats, military officers, & the farmers who owned huge farms & were paid (subsidies) directly by the gov't to grow or not grow, stockpile or distribute to those nations we wanted to control, owned or were provided wonderful homes, private schools for their children, vehicles, food etc... while the "common man" worked 7 days a week, was provided barely enough to eat, lived in broken down housing, & was in constant fear of saying the wrong thing as it might be construed as treasonous speech ( they would be wisked away to a prison somewhere), & their children went to "federal" schools to be brainwashed. Those in power constantly stirred up fear & terror by all the propaganda on TV, movies & the news media that yet another country was trying to attack, so we had to attack 1st...
There were a few who remembered or had been taught by parents or grandparents of the freedoms America once had, who were part of an underground organization called the "Minutemen" & were infiltrating the various gov't organizations in hopes of causing another revolution to gain back their freedoms. But in the process, the power that those Minutement who were successful, obtained, was dangerous in it's own right as there was always the temptation to forget the original reason for the revolution & get caught up in a power trip just like those the Minutemen were rebelling against.
Anyway, I'm not quite finished with the book, but uncanny how much the book describes America today.
Does this fit into the "Mike Oehler - original hippie" thread? :-/
I've just finished listening to Jonathan Alter' The Defining Moment. It might be better read, but....
15-30 percent of the country was unemployed, back in the days when women mostly didn't work so they weren't counted among the unemployed, for the most part. Alter comments that people were too depressed to rebel in late l932-early '33. People have to have some hope in order to try to make life different. That might be a different way of looking at the situatio Taylor Caldwell's describing in the novel.
I think Mike O would like and approve of what you just posted Sassy. If someone would be able to email Mike Oehler and tell him about this good group and even this thread maybe he would read it and Maybe even post a little here?
I never heard of that book you just told us about Sassy. Maybe I will read it someday. So many books so little time. I have liked Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" especially the last half. Should find and read it again soon.
Also T minus 12 days and counting until I leave for my mtn. place which I consider paradise compared to the purgatory of stinkin cities...
As one last post to be dedicated to good ol Mike Oehler and all Old Hippies where ever they might be. I would like to post the lyrics to the country song "Old Hippie" I do not like much of country or a lot of music but sometimes there are good ones such as this >
Old Hippie
Bellamy Brothers
He turned thirty-five last Sunday
In his hair he found some gray
But he still ain't changed his lifestyle
He likes it better the old way
So he grows a little garden in the back yard by the fence
He's consuming what he's growing nowadays in self defense
He get's out there in the twilight zone
Sometimes when it just don't make no sense
He gets off on country music
Cause disco left him cold
He's got young friends into new wave
But he's just too friggin' old
And he dreams at night of Woodstock and the day John Lennon died
How the music made him happy and the silence made him cry
Yeah he thinks of John sometimes
And he has to wonder why
He's an old hippie and he don't know what to do
Should he hang on to the old
Should he grab on to the new
He's an old hippie...his new life is just a bust
He ain't trying to change nobody
He's just trying real hard to adjust
He was sure back in the sixties that everyone was hip
Then they sent him off to Vietnam on his senior trip
And they forced him to become a man while he was still a boy
And in each wave of tragedy he waited for the joy
Now this world may change around him
But he just can't change no more
He's an old hippie and he don't know what to do
Should he hang on to the old
Should he grab on to the new
He's an old hippie...his new life is just a bust
He ain't trying to change nobody
He's just trying real hard to adjust
Well he stays away a lot now from the parties and the clubs
And he's thinking while he's joggin' 'round
Sure is glad he quit the hard drugs
Cause him and his kind get more endangered everyday
And pretty soon the species will just up and fade away
Like the smoke from that torpedo...just up and fade away
He's an old hippie and he don't know what to do
Should he hang on to the old
Should he grab on to the new
He's an old hippie...his new life is just a bust
He ain't trying to change nobody
He's just trying real hard to adjust.
How fitting---enjoy your trip Mike.
Thanks for the song, Mike.
Enjoy your return to the mountain, Pilgrim.
Thanks for the good comments guys. Maybe I will post here again next winter for I will most probably come back down from my mtn place even though I always hate to leave even when there is three feet of snow when I leave in Nov.
This is a better and friendlier group than about any other that I have found so I probably Shall return!
You take care of yourself on that mountain, Mike. Don't forget to bring us back some photos of the wildlife and cabin. We'll all be waiting for your return. :)
A handy tool for survival and a nice little home project. Seems there is always someone who knows something we don't.
Fire Piston - a primitive invention (http://www.onagocag.com/piston.html)
An interesting find Glenn. I hadn't thought of one of those for years. I think you will find a 'How to" article in the classic "Wood Craft and Camping" by Sears (?). That was my favorite book as a youngster, and been looking for a replacement hardcover for years, (lost in the Great Fire of '86 [smiley=sad.gif]) That would be a good book for Mike to have up on his mountain, if he doesn't already have it.
Anyway, Sears details several ways of making fire including rubbing two sticks together, which if I recall he does not give a high score to. Try it and you'll see why. [smiley=wink.gif] The piston and tube method got top billing, since what could be easier if you don't have matches or lighter?
I was impressed enough that I made one for my final in "Shop Techniques" lab. It even worked!
Cool, Billy Bob - someone who's done it. 8-) It's great being on a forum with so many geniuses who have no ego problems. :)
I was thinking about making one of these and it says 3/4" or 1" diameter cylinder - piston is 1/2" or less. I think I would go for the smaller one since it would be easier to achieve ignition temperature if the area was smaller. I assume we are trying to achieve a 20 to 1 or more compression ratio - not exactly sure what is necessary- but smaller would be easier - not so large an area for the compression to work against you.
Guess I should re-study the drawings and see if I can figure out the ratio- could be a lot more if the space is small.
The traditional is shown as 1/2 dia x 4" to 6" long. The Rowlands is shown as 1/4" dia. x 4 3/4" working length of piston 3/16" space at the end to keep from smashing your fire.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/fire_piston.gif)
The above image showing how this works is from this site:
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2001/osullivan/index.htm
I couldn't stand it, Billy Bob. I tried to work but this thing wouldn't let me. :-/
I had to go at least try to make one.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1000503.jpg)
I used 6" of 1/2" hard copper tube, a piece of 1/2 inch hardwood dowel for the piston appx 6" long - cut to proper length after plug is installed in bottom of cylinder. The push handle and stop are 1" hardwood dowel cut at about 1 1/2" and one inch respectively.
I chucked the piston in the drill press and used my Dremel to cut 2 grooves for the o-rings. Had a set in my truck. The dowel fit the tube a bit loose but I figure the o-rings will take care of that. I put about a 1/2" long wood plug into the copper tube covered with 5 minute epoxy then epoxied it into a hole drilled in the 1" outer plug dowel. Hopefully no leaks. The piston and o-rings will be coated with mink oil shoe grease if I can find it. I drilled a small tinder hole in the end of the piston 1/4" dia. 1/8" deep. I fit the piston into a 1/32 undersized drilled hole in the handle after making it stop about 3/16" before the bottom per directions above.
Will it work---???? I don't know, but it looks cool. :)
QuoteI started reading The Devil's Advocate by Taylor Caldwell, yesterday... it was published in 1952. They had the FBHS "Federal Bureau of Home Security" along with constantly trumped up threats of terrorism from other nations. Canada, the United States & Mexico were called "The Americas" & there were eavesdropping devices all over the place to listen to conversations. The military was the most powerful organization & controlled everything. The Constitution, Bill of Rights & Declaration of Independence had been done away with.
Sassy, sounds like a great book. I'll have to check that out.
This thread is very interesting. Our sons (16 and 13) like to tease us about being "hippies" even tho we were born a few years too late to actually be a part of the "real" hippies. Maybe it's just a sensability that we carry. There are worse things...
And we did buy Rick a Jimi Hendrix Experience CD for Father's Day. He has been known to lament "I used to have that Jimi Hendrix 8-track... Wonder what happened to it?" Now he can listen anytime (in the truck of course)
Judy
Happy Father's Day to all you Dads!
QuoteWill it work---???? I don't know, but it looks cool. :)
Don't keep us in suspense forever.... does it work??
I need to seal it better - it gets warm but no fire yet. then I ran out of time to play with it.
QuoteI couldn't stand it, Billy Bob. I tried to work but this thing wouldn't let me. :-/
I used 6" of 1/2" hard copper tube, a piece of 1/2 inch hardwood dowel for the piston appx 6" long - cut to proper length after plug is installed in bottom of cylinder. The push handle and stop are 1" hardwood dowel cut at about 1 1/2" and one inch respectively.
I chucked the piston in the drill press and used my Dremel to cut 2 grooves for the o-rings. Had a set in my truck. The dowel fit the tube a bit loose but I figure the o-rings will take care of that. I put about a 1/2" long wood plug into the copper tube covered with 5 minute epoxy then epoxied it into a hole drilled in the 1" outer plug dowel. Hopefully no leaks. The piston and o-rings will be coated with mink oil shoe grease if I can find it. I drilled a small tinder hole in the end of the piston 1/4" dia. 1/8" deep. I fit the piston into a 1/32 undersized drilled hole in the handle after making it stop about 3/16" before the bottom per directions above.
I grinned as I read just how many modern tools and materials you used to make your fire-starter. How far we've come and how little man has changed over the past 50,000 years. Ug the caveman probably made the same happy sounds you did after discovering he could use a pointed stick to dig grubs out of the ground. Did you grunt? Visions of Tim the tool man come to mind. :)
I grunt and drag my hairy knuckles when I walk. At least it was all run by totally off grid power. If I hadn't used power tools it'd probably be working by now, although I am lacking the dead dog to get dog grease from, which some groups insist is necessary to make it work. :-/
Hey, your a good craftsman Glenn.... for a knuckle dragger... and you're into a worthy experiment. I want to know if this thing is just an urban legend (about romantic times we didn't live in) or real. All web links for more information and examples have been taken down.
There should be a little movie of this.
The theory is right, I just don't know enough about the physics to know if you can generate the pressures needed to make fire with such machines (and mere human strength).
Looked like a good effort to me, Glenn. If it's getting warm, well, you must be getting warm. [smiley=wink.gif]
The one I made in physics lab was of brass, and usually took three or four compressions to make the tinder smolder. I wondered why, since it was made to close tolerances on a modern lathe, it underperformed the reported results of the more primitive hand made units. I think, though I never made the experiment, ( I was a ba-a-a-d physics student), that the brass acted as a heat sink, and you had to overcome that energy deficit first. You may be encountering something similar with the copper; we KNOW you made it good!
I saw the video - it did work --
I agree about the heat sink, Billy Bob. I was thinking the same thing - I was just trying to see what I could do in an hour or so with whatever junk I could find. I have the knowledge all wrapped up in the meat between my ears now.
I could have done much better with machine tools (lathe) and am losing some compression but I think it will work if I get time to fool with it some more. The wood ones are probably better -- better insulation than the brass or copper.
I guess I should go back to the cave style. :-/