Development

[lodestar]

We live in a state forest on 50 acres of land...there is a private 40 about a mile and a half south of our place...which has a small lake that was planted to wild rice in a cooperative effort between Ducks Unlimited and the DNR.  Well, the 40 has had a house on it for almost as long as I've been here...22 years.  It's back off the road so you can't see it...now, it's been sold and the person who bought it is proposing to build 12 more houses on the 40.  A cul-de-sac has already been cut in...and the lots will all nest around that driveway, staring at each other.  The lots are 2.5 acres for the most part...although some are a bit smaller, around 2 acres.  There's a lot of wetlands on the 40...and trumpeter swans nest on the little wildrice lake across the road.

I'm feeling encroached upon.  There are no other developments of this nature around here.  This is precedent setting.

I don't view land as commodity.  I have a sense of this place.  I feel it deep in my soul.  I have an understanding with the other inhabitants of these woods, and generally get along better with them than I do humankind.  (no offense meant)...

Just venting, I guess.  But I'd sure like to see sustainability become a part of the American lexicon.

Crying deep inside for the countryside...and for my country.

[glenn-k]

Hopefully you don't have to stare at them staring at each other.  I'm with you --- I don't really care to look at "The Projects".

We are on a 20 with another 20 between us and our other 40.  That's enough neighbors for now.

When I work in the city I hurry as fast as I can to get the job done and get away from the masses.  Sometimes I get up here on the hill and don't even go to our little town of 1700 people for a week at a time - and it's only 4 miles.

[lodestar]

Glenn, I tried to pm you yesterday when I logged in after a long absence, but it kept getting kicked back as unsendable.  Hmmm

A major problem with this development is the precedent it will set.  If others who have private 40s in amidst these forested lands decide that the value of the land is more split into small parcels with McMansions or trailers parked on the sites...they will be more likely to go ahead and do it since the ice will have been broken.

What happened to the 'good old days' when folks had a 40 acre piece, owner built a place and had some chickens and a goat or two?  

I hate to wish any ill will, but I am kinda looking forward to the days when gas is sky high and people aren't borrowing against their real estate bubbles to further go into debt for toys and trappings.

Man...do I sound curmudgeonly, or what?

(Shaking my cane at the kids on bicycles..."Get away from my apples, ya little whippersnappers!")

Now, where'd I put my trifocals?

[glenn-k]

Bruce
When the PM system doesn't work it is usually when you are making a reply.  Happens to me often --probably a YABB bug.  Just copy your message then paste it to a new message to keep from having to re-type it - a workaround.

Each extra person you have to deal with is an extra annoyance.  Most of the people sub-dividing are taking the money and running so don't really care what happens to the area.  

My brother-in-laws place is that way --150 foot tall trees all around and another neighbor 20 feet away in every direction.  I couldn't live like that.

[lodestar]

It's far enough away that we won't see the development, unless we walk/ride bike/drive south a mile and a half.  The traffic heads south, so they won't pass our place, either...but 13 feuding families, 13 barking dogs, 26 kids with 4 wheelers and snowmobiles, and one dad who needs to make some extra bucks in the basement with his meth lab.  Well...it could happen, y'know.

How long before the earth gets hit by that solar storm?

[glenn-k]

Solar storm info is here

http://www.n3kl.org/sun/noaa.html

and here,

http://www.girlsgofishing.com/index.htm

Bruce.  

Credibility - I don't know - that's for you to decide - I just like the pictures. :-/

Amazing how far sounds carry out in the country.  2 mile drive to the concrete plant at the bottom of the mountain but sometimes you can hear it like it's next door.  The meth labs etc. seem to be all over - and quite a few of the unsavory characters that go with them sometimes too.  At times though, you don't realize who they are until they get caught - I guess those are the good ones.

[Bouncer]

Doesn't the Forest Sercive have some kind of regulation or rule
forbiding something like that from happening. If it does you can bet that you'll have 4 wheelers
riding all over the place. And they don't care who's property the mess up.
Kevin

[Amanda_931]

Some of my neighbors are having their woods logged after they swore they had no intention of ever doing that.  As the guys from the log company said, "I guess they needed money."  

But it looks awful, and their land is right next to mine, and the dogs are going crazy because the critters from their land are coming down here and..........and...........and..

We all feel that way sometimes.

[Daddymem]

NIMBY at its best

[Amanda_931]

Yep, there is NIMBY.  And I for one was partly joking.  Only partly.  

I grew up in logging country.  Here there seems to be even less care of the land.

I've seen mixed hardwood logging in this area done so that one could hardly tell that the highly profitable stuff had been taken.   This area might well probably erode badly before it gets plant cover back.  A year or so after they plant the pine, the broad-leaf plants are hit with crop-dusted defoliant/herbicide--possibly later as well, this does take out the blackberries and grasses that have grown up, and any leftover hardwood trees.  The pilots don't always wait for windless days, don't always hit just the property they're supposed to be hitting.  Although some--not all--of what you hear may be propaganda from the anti-logging people.  

And ten to one it will be planted back in monoculture pines--after the owner went on for half an hour a couple of years ago about how you couldn't grow two intensive crops (overcrowded, no knots in the first twenty feet, coarse grain) of pine on the same ground.   As far as I know that's true.   But you can harvest that first crop in 20-25 years, depending of course on insect or climate damage, as opposed to the 75 or so it's been since this land was cut over.  Or less than 25, if you want sell to the pulpwood or chip mills.

They could be growing mixed hardwoods with a lot of poplar (as fast growing as pine, quite valuable, although maybe a few dozen logs at a time rather than dozens of log truck loads) or even something like bamboo.  Although to make a living growing bamboo for timber, the operations in China will have to become a whole lot more expensive.  It might well have happened 20 years from now, and you could have been harvesting timber every year for 5 or 10 of those years by then.

There's also a bit of irony in subdividing property so that all those people can live in deep country on their 2 and a half acres.  About like the people moving to Arizona to help their allergies and asthma, then insisting on having grass, little maple trees, and so on--so the streets looked "just like home" and strangely enough gave them the same kinds of allergy problems.

[lodestar]

Well...only two of the members of the commission saw things my way...the other 5 or 6 voted for approving the subdivision.  The developer approached me after the meeting and told me to just buy him out.  I said...sure, I'll pay you what you paid for it plus a profit...he laughed...no, buy all the lots at 40 grand per plus anothe 240 grand for the existing structure.

Ha, Ha...

I guess it won't be so bad having neighbors.  Maybe some of them will be good folks.  Then again, the economy may just skid enough to make the lots rather unattractive.

Anyway...it's over.  

I feel better not having to think about it any longer.

(is that fatalism?)

[glenn-k]

Or resignation?

Well -- time goes on -- who knows --maybe there will be some kind of benefits from it.

Around here it's not just the people wanting to make money off the sale of their land.  It's the local government too.  If they can get more tax money off of it, they even approve questionable subdivisions - like up to 880 homes in an area with very little water.  We'll see what happens there.

[Amanda_931]

And the loggers may have pulled out tonight.  For sure they don't have too much more to do.

and yes, this area has been de/re-forested a bunch of times, most notably back in the day when they didn't creosote the railroad ties, spent a lot of time replacing them.

And we've all disturbed the existing order when we bought or sold our own land.

And we can hardly blame people for wanting to live where we do.

BUT!

[lodestar]

Speaking of NIMBY...I mentioned to the fellow developing the land that it would make more sense to subdivide the land he owns near his own home.  It is open, relatively flat, no wildlife to speak of, marginal for agriculture...and easily platted.  He's the one that is very NIMBY about the whole thing, as are some of the zoning commissioners.  I brought up to one of them...the chair...about a 40 he purchased down the road from his place from mutual acquaintances...a 40 very similar to the 40 that is being developed near me.  I asked what he thought about that being developed...the wetlands, the small lake by it...etc.  He said, "Never'd happen...I had dibs on that place first...and they were always gonna sell it to me"...but what if, I postulated..."Never'd happen"...he muttered.  I sat down muttering sarcastically about not in his backyard.

Am I repeating myself?

Sorry if I am.

[Amanda_931]

Many years ago the next door neighbors took down a (difficult) tree that shaded our dining room from the east.

We went through hysterics about it--we love that tree, etc.

And later discovered that we liked the extra morning light more.

I've now got a long view to the west up the hill.  I like long views

Still think that there may be erosion--some of which may take some of my trees down.

Still can't find where I want to put the cottage.  I keep thinking it's just a matter of sticking a stake in the ground and going from there.  Not true.

But yes, the developer should do his own back yard first!