Your Papers Please

[glenn kangiser]

Military used against citizens - get used to it.... 

For implied good now....for what later.... hmm

[wildbil]

sounds like a roundup

[desdawg]

Somehow the State of California always leads the charge in these things. Then the other states tag along at a later time.

[glenn kangiser]

Deployment here started in Washington State near Seattle October 1st with the Army according to what I read.  We are just quietly bragging about it.  Didn't hit the mainstream news here that I know of.  No telling how many are deployed on the ground now. 

I think the mass arming of the American citizens with their own money scared the hell out of gov.  and they are hoping the military will protect them instead of their families.  Come on -- you'd shoot your mom, dad, son, daughter, brother or sister for your political leaders and world bankers wouldn't you?  

Gun stores and ammo are selling out around here.  The shelves are emptying of weapons.

Come on, you boot lickers.... on your knees....
Now will you present your papers, please?  hmm

[glenn kangiser]

Last year....

There is, for example, the increasing role the military is playing in domestic life, secretly and not-so secretly, crumbling almost a century and a half old prohibition against military meddling in civilian business.

Five years ago the Pentagon established a "Northern Command" over the United States, the first time such a command was based on the mainland, ostensibly to coordinate responses to terrorist attacks. The Pentagon is actively engaged in domestic intelligence gathering, something that would have been thought outright illegal a generation ago. In December, the president signed a law that gave him the authority to declare martial law virtually at will.

Militarization is happening in more direct ways. Last week, the Associated Press circulated a story about the Pentagon selling surplus hardware to police agencies. The story projected a happy, fortunate circumstance. The tone was approving. The suggestion rewarding.

A picture featured a young police officer called Shane Grammer holding up a massive M-16 rifle with at least two scopes and a muffler-size barrel, a Chevrolet Blazer behind him, also military surplus, cluttered up with soldiers' helmets, camouflage and gear. The officer was a member of the Litchfield, Pa., Police Department. Litchfield is a minuscule township of 500 families. Who does Officer Grammer intend to use his M-16 against?

The difference between police agencies and military units is becoming difficult to distinguish. They love their helicopters, they love their night raids, their SWAT teams, their chases, their drawn guns.

We often hear about how "attitude" is in itself a trigger of violence among gang members. What we don't often hear about, but endure, because the media are too busy writing cute features about military surplus property in the hands of local police agencies, is the same attitude from police -- the very same approach: Look at an officer the wrong way and you might be in jail before the rooster crows once. All of that military hardware brings with it an attitude all its own, a sense of power and presumption that has to be exercised. At this rate, a police state would be a blessing. What we're heading toward is a military state, perpetually at war abroad, but also perpetually mobilized at home down to the tiniest mom-and-pop police agency. Uniforms are the new cult, force the presumed solution to order's challengers. The law can wait.

When a society is no longer exclusively and vigilantly civil, its claim to be a civilized society, let alone a civilizing one, is in peril. Other countries have been discovering that about the United States. We're discovering it at home, too, every time a police shield is flashed with the presumptive power of an M-16 burst.

http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0206-25.htm

[ScottA]

We where warned of this way back in 1961.


Eisenhower's Farewell Address to the Nation January 17, 1961

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdrGKwkmxAU

[wildbil]

I really don't think anyone would need martial law even as the economy is going to crap. But the second americans realize troops are coming to round them up...watch out.


"Come on -- you'd shoot your mom, dad, son, daughter, brother or sister for your political leaders and world bankers wouldn't you?"


I think many would. I've had several friends and family go through the military. Frankly I believe there is mass brainwashing going on, and most ex military people I know believe they are better than the laws of God and our country.

Also in case you havent been watching the news lately, CNN just ran a story about troops being deployed on our soil, and troops in cities(I think they said in case something happens to Obama). I think they are trying to show the friendly neighborhood population control brigade, because if you show people something enough eventually theyll be desensitized.

[NM_Shooter]

Let me throw a little water on this tinfoil hat party. 

Look at the address of the release.  29 Palms Hwy, and Morongo Basin... That is just south of 29 Palms marine base.  It also does not say that MPs are going to be used to stop civilians.  It just says that they are going to be involved.  It is illegal for MPs to stop anyone off base... do a google on Posse Comitatus Act.  I think we may be jumping to conclusions about their involvement.

Due to the large population from 29 Palms, I suspect that the MPs will be there specifically to deal with members of the military, not members of the civilian population (unless on base, which pretty much limits civilians to spouses / contractors these days).  The MPs may actually be confined to operating on the base for this sweep.  There is not enough data on that release to know.

Speaking as one whose Grandmother was killed by a drunk driver, I don't care if they use gunships firing depleted uranium to get drunks off the road.  We have a HUGE problem with repeat drunk driving offenders in New Mexico.  We see them with 20 to 25 offenses, and yet they still get off.  Our judges are pretty dang worthless.

-f-

P.S.  How about this....somebody call the listed number and ask them why and where MPs are being used.

[MountainDon]

The CHP release states they are after intoxicated drivers. Didn't anybody other then Frank, notice that? True, if someone comes through w/o a valid license, or with some kind of an outstanding warrant they would be arrested too. Fine.

I Googled and came up with the info that there is a USMC base nearby. I suspected there was but wasn't certain. One search result stated that the MP's would be there to take custody of any Marines who were DWI/DUI. Sorry, I didn't make note of which one it was. That little detail was missing from all the other reports I found; all of which contained highly inflamed rhetoric protesting the presence of the MP's.

I have no problem with the MP's being there to take custody of any drunk military service people. I'm more certain they will suffer the consequences than many of the civilians drunks rounded up. Driving drunk is, to me, tantamount to blindly firing a firearm down the street. You might not kill someone with every shot, you might not crash your car every time you drive drunk, but sooner or later some innocent will be injured or killed. I don't want to be that person.

Anybody who has been in NM for a decade or so probably has either been a victim of a drunk driver or knows someone who has been a victim of a drunk driver. The mother of one of our neighbors was killed by a drunk driver a few years ago. A friend was badly injured by a drunk driver. One of our preschool parents was hit by a drunk; after nearly a year of physical therapy she is getting close to being her old self again.

I have been inconvenienced three times in recent years when I came upon a DWI checkpoint. Not a big deal to me. Nearly every holiday season we have some drunk run down innocent people, usually a family, and kill several of them; frequently by driving the wrong direction on a divided highway/interstate. Once I even had to get out and allow the courteous officer to run me through the sobriety tests because I did admit that I had had a glass of wine about an hour and a half earlier. They were doing their job as far as I was concerned.

[glenn kangiser]

The Marine base would be Federal Land, Frank and the CHP has no jurisdiction there, but good points.  I used to truck down in that area and install roll bars on Heavy Equipment.  

I see no reason civilian police can't handle the off base illegal un-Constitutional non-warrant, Illegal search and seizure checkpoint.  I am for police actually doing their jobs and getting the drunks off of the roads and I have pulled them off and taken their keys two times and had them arrested another time as well as called for police assist which usually didn't arrive many times.

Posse Comitatus is correct Frank---- Bush killed it and deployed the military on our soil as of October 1st.

No particular reason for these refs- just back up what I am referring to...

http://www.freepressinternational.com/2008/12/police-state-2009-pentagon-to-militarize-usa-with-20000-armed-troops/

[wildbil]

Let me throw a little water on this tinfoil hat party. 

It is exactly that kind of thinking that americans dismiss any notion that their freedoms are slowly being invaded upon. History constantly repeats itself. Ask any German citizen from the 30's or any Russian from the late 40's if they saw the storm brewing.

[wildbil]

^ I didn't mean to sound rude in the last post.

[glenn kangiser]

No problem, wildbil, we are just discussing facts and information in a calm controlled manner. 

Many do not want to look or do not want to see that things are slowly being slipped in on them to take their rights and freedom in the guise of security. 

It's like boiling a frog.  Drop him in a pot of boiling water and he will quickly jump out before he is even burned, but put him into a cold pot of water and turn on the burner and as he gradually heats to boiling he will happily sit there until all the meat is boiled off of his bones and he becomes part of a nice Froschschenkel meal.

[glenn kangiser]

Right after the military was deployed in the PNW with their "non-lethal" crowd control weapons, many people in the city my daughter lives in started falling over on the ground with Vertigo.  A symptom of one of the non-lethal weapons.  It didn't make the news -- when it happened to her she was checking it out with the hospital there.

But yes - they are here to protect us and wouldn't have a need to test on actual citizens to make sure it works....except that my covert ops buddy said they would, but what does he know? hmm

PS... and they have found that the weapons are not always non-lethal, like tasers.

[Scott MO]

Another perspective...for what it's worth.

Around my town, police routinely set up "safety checkpoints" during known periods of heavy drinking (New Years, etc), and typically only for a few late night/early morning hours.  If this were a continual, ongoing thing, I'd worry.  However, I have no problem with them checking during these "drinkers" holidays.

As for the MPs, I'm not worried about it.  Many years ago, I was given a "free ride," and I'm sure the police would have preferred to hand me off to MPs versus driving me the short distance to base.  But, I WOULD get concerned if MPs rode along on regular, everyday police patrols.

I'm more concerned with Obama's "civilian army" idea.  "Sir, your car is over it's carbon limit."  "Sir, why aren't you recycling?"  "Sir, you need to re-register only one of your guns and hand the remaining guns over."

[Redoverfarm]

No problem, wildbil, we are just discussing facts and information in a calm controlled manner. 

Many do not want to look or do not want to see that things are slowly being slipped in on them to take their rights and freedom in the guise of security. 

It's like boiling a frog.  Drop him in a pot of boiling water and he will quickly jump out before he is even burned, but put him into a cold pot of water and turn on the burner and as he gradually heats to boiling he will happily sit there until all the meat is boiled off of his bones and he becomes part of a nice Froschschenkel meal.

Had to look that one up.

[cordwood]

 Sorry to break the news but statistically you are far more likely to be killed by a vehicle malfunction than an ACTUAL "drunk driver". A report will list alcohol if the see a beer can at the scene even if it had NOTHING to do with the wreck.
I don't condone drunk driving but I don't like the law using it as an excuse to get in my business.
Remember that they have Alcohol, Tobacco and FIREARMS together,............They slant the actual statistics to make you THINK they are helping when the are really just trying to control you.
Speeding and tired drivers are by far the biggest fatality causes in driving. So what do they do? Raise the speed limit and when was the last time you heard of Wal-Mart getting a ticket for making an employee work odd hours and drive home exhausted from broken sleep patterns ?!?!?!?!?! Your safety is NOT their concern,....It's CONTROL! PERIOD!
I hate to hear about your grandmother, But I have two compressed vertabrea and a busted splein plus several other broken parts from a grandmother doing 80 miles an hour on hwy 395 that plowed into the back of a pickup I was riding in! We all have a story to tell but I don't want the Government slanting it to sqeeze me into a cage either.
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How many sides are in place on the wild pig trap so far?!?!?!?

[ScottA]

How many sides are in place on the wild pig trap so far?!?!?!?

I'd say 3 and the gate is being installed now.

[NM_Shooter]

Wildbil...I think we have plenty of real reasons to be upset with our government taking away actual liberties, without speculating about infractions that may not exist.   I like the idea of MPs on hand to intervene with soldiers in violation of DWI laws... I'd bet that the military courts are much more harsh than the civilian ones.  (I bet that military personnel have to account in both civilian and military court... I dunno for sure).

Cordwood, I don't see the correlation, and that is a weak argument.  Not all grandmothers need to be off the road...many are quite competent drivers.  It is not illegal for a grandmother to drive.  On the other hand, anyone blowing a .20 is incapacitated, and is illegally operating a vehicle and a danger to the public.

[MountainDon]

I bet that military personnel have to account in both civilian and military court...

I'm pretty sure they get double whammied if caught in a civilian DWI. If caught on base by MP's they might not go through a civilian charge, but they'd probably wish they had instead. The court martial can be way worse. Either way it's bad news for them. Could be grounds for a dishonorable discharge.

[Sassy]

Here's a short YouTube video by Ron Paul speaking about martial law & the disbandment of "posse commitatus"

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7SbJZ_G-_C8

[harry51]

Thanks, Sassy.  Ron Paul is one of the few statesmen we have. Would that we had 534 more with his integrity.