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General => Owner-Builder Projects => Topic started by: Caroline on December 17, 2006, 11:49:53 PM

Title: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Caroline on December 17, 2006, 11:49:53 PM
Hello...
I have been working on a small cabin design for a few months. It is to be built on a double lot in Queen Charlotte City, Haida Gwaii. The lot has only a small area to build on, great for a 16 x 20 cabin. The view is beautiful, overlooking the harbour. Construction will start sometime this winter... I would be grateful for any feedback regarding my ideas so far. I would like to build something cozy yet functional.
Thanks!
Caroline
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: glenn-k on December 18, 2006, 12:11:52 AM
Cute design.  How many people - just one?

I had a time figuring out where you were at - Hadn't heard of the Islands before.

Welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Sassy on December 18, 2006, 12:15:28 AM
How about making the dormer a little bigger?  Would give you lots more room in your loft  :) - otherwise, as Glenn said, "looks real cute!"
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: mark_chenail on December 18, 2006, 11:59:03 AM
What a nice tight design with plenty of varied storage for a small house.  Im really fond of built in cupboard beds with drawers underneath and the w/d right next to it is a dandy idea.  You can do the wash and sort it on the bed.  You could even just reach over from the bed and get clean warm from the dryer clothes on a chilly morning. ;)

Glenn:  You werent the only one that had to look up Haida Gwaii.  Sounds like a future location for the Survivor show.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Caroline on December 18, 2006, 12:38:26 PM
Thank you for the comments so far... And feel free to nit-pick!

The cabin is designed for one person, but it could easily shelter a couple - that is why I want a closed loft, for privacy and an extra sleeping space if needed for guests. I have settled on a ladder instead of a staircase, because of space. I put the bed on the main floor to avoid the nightly trip(s) down the ladder to get to the bathroom...

One thing I have not figured out is where to pile up dirty laundry (there shouldn't be much of it). My thought was simply to throw it into the washer until there is enough to wash...  ;).

Sassy - I think that is a good suggestion about making the dormer bigger. Maybe one foot wider, with a bigger window - what do you think? I also want it to be proportional to the cabin's size - do you think that matters?

Haida Gwaii (also known as the Queen Charlotte Islands) is the most beautiful place. Queen Charlotte is a small town (maybe 2000 pop.) and very friendly. Great if you like to fish or kayak, or just stare at the weather which changes all the time. I have attched a picture of the view from the lot...

Caroline
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Sassy on December 18, 2006, 12:49:47 PM
Beautiful view!  I lived up by Bellingham for 12 yrs & have been up to Vancouver Island several times & all around Point Roberts & the San Juan Islands - beautiful country!  I had an ex-brother-in-law who used to fish out of Cordova (unfortunately he was lost at sea during a terrible storm while fishing a few months ago) had a friend who lived in Ketchikan & my ex-husband used to salmon fish in Sitka.  I never did make it up that far north but would love to visit - my sister & her husband & some other friends are planning a cruise up through there in a couple years so am hoping that we can go also.  

Enlarging the dormer would give you more room - & proportionality was a concern I had...  I asked Glenn if he thought it would make it look out of proportion if you added a foot, he didn't think so.  Your design looks a lot like some of John's plans.  Glenn is looking up his designs in case you need a structural design & will post what John has.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: glenn-k on December 18, 2006, 01:02:51 PM
This is the same width as the Victoria's Cottage. (http://www.countryplans.com/victoria.html)

If you need structural design this could make it real easy and cheap.  Put your plan into the Victoria's shell - shortening it is no problem.  Under $100 for the plan but it may be subject to local building department review and they may want a local architect to stamp it.  I am not familiar with your local requirements.

Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: bartholomew on December 18, 2006, 09:05:07 PM
Wow, I really like how you've managed to fit so much into the small space. There are a couple small things I would do. First I'd stick the water heater up in a low-ceiling corner of the loft. Then I'd swap the toilet and sink. Since the sink doesn't need as much clearance from the bathroom door, the bathroom could be made smaller by maybe a foot. That would create enough space for an L-shaped kitchen. I lived with an undercounter fridge for about a year and it was way too small for me (and I don't even cook much, didn't have a lot of sauces, dressings and so on taking up space). Again, nice design (and terrific views).
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: jraabe on December 18, 2006, 09:19:27 PM
Caroline:

Very nice basic design. Charming and well thought out.

I also like the suggestions Bartholomew has made.

I am a bit worried about the wood stove space. Is propane a reasonable option there? It could solve the hot water heater issue - you could do a wall mount tankless heater. Then you could get a tiny propane fireplace or stove that wouldn't have the clearance issues of a wood stove. This little place isn't going to need much heat if you use something like my plan has with 2x6 walls and an R-30 roof.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Amanda_931 on December 18, 2006, 09:45:50 PM
Nice looking.  And gorgeous view.

I had an undercounter fridge once myself, and just like Bartholomew, I hated it.  It also didn't work very long.  I replaced it with a 9 foot, separate freezer and refrigerator compartments, set up on  small platform that I had built with some extra storage up and down, and a tiny counter space that I ended up using for another seven years in two more houses. (not the nice--and much bigger because of all the insulation Sun-frosts--but an Italian made Sears.)

And I'll say what I always say about plans--

A second door and/or fire escape.  Please.

Another pet peeve of mine is having to go through a bedroom to get to a bathroom.  

I'm considering library ladders--the kind that are not as straight up and down as ship's ladders.  they take up more room but they can roll--maybe even out of the way.  One of the magazines had an ad for some that they swore were affordable.  But I haven't checked it out yet.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: MountainDon on December 18, 2006, 10:25:54 PM
I too wonder about that wood stove. A wood stove really takes up a lot of space when you safely allow for all the empty space to have proper clearance from combustibles. (Conbustibles such as wood, fabrics, rugs are the obvious ones, but they also include the paper on any drywall you might plan on.) Also not too sure about being so close to a window... is there a danger of cracking glass or melting a vinyl frame? Did you have a particular stove in mind; would be interested in your choice? I've had a lot of trouble finding a well built stove small enough to be used in a small cabin like this.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: MountainDon on December 18, 2006, 10:28:29 PM
... and I agree with Amanda about the second door and a fire escape from the upper floor. My plans for a 14 x 26 include a smallish custom built (that means me) 22 - 24 inch back door. I'll post a plan here sometime soon for purusal and reaction.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Caroline on December 18, 2006, 10:56:48 PM
Hi to all - and thanks for all the comments!

Bartholomew:  I love the idea for the water heater - I will try to redraw the kitchen/bathroom with it in mind and see what it adds up to...

John & MountainDon - I was thinking about a small Jotul woodstove. Here is a link that has the specs on it:  http://www.northweststoves.ca/wood-stoves-gas-fireplaces/f602.html
What do you think?
Another good link I just found regarding small wood stoves:
http://www.marinestove.com/index.htm
I like the "Little Cod" model...

Amanda: I was thinking about having a ladder against the outside cabin wall, leading down from the loft window, as a fire escape route. Not for the faint of heart, I know, but that was my idea. Any other suggestions? As for the bathroom access issue, it was a compromise to keep the place small. I'd rather have it that way then access from the kitchen, and I wanted the view for the bedroom...

As for the fridge issue, maybe I should sacrifice the entrance closet... I might also be able to fit a larger one if I move the water heater to the loft, as Bartholomew suggested. Hmmm...

Cheers,
Caroline
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: MountainDon on December 19, 2006, 01:21:13 AM
Thoughts...

Water heater: up in the loft... only if it sits in a pan to catch and drain off the water when it leaks. Why not a tankless model? They aren't prone to leaking much at all from what I understand.
Wood stove:
I like the Jotul F602; I have it on my "Hmmm" list. I personally think the "little cod" looks too small, burn time rather short on their spec list, for whatever that's worth. The Jotul clearnce to combustible is one of the smallest I've seen, when used with the one inch air gap shield. The "litle cod" is pictured with a nice stainless steel shield.

You still might want to consider a small propane or natural gas if that's available (my mind is working in off-grid, off in the boonies mode, excuse me) so you don't have to worry about freezing if you're away.

As for the fridge, it is surprising how small a unit you can make do with, however I find that freezer space is as important to me as fridge space. The under counter types I've seen don't offer much freezer space.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Caroline on December 19, 2006, 01:37:53 AM
I have made a few changes to the main floor layout, with thoughts of moving the hot water tank to the loft. I now have a space for a regular size fridge.

I am intrigued about the tankless hot water system, MountainDon - what is that all about?

Caroline
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: glenn-k on December 19, 2006, 01:48:24 AM
We have the Bosch 125 HX on demand heater.  Makes it as you need it - no storage,  No standing pilot in the HX so saves propane - has a little water dynamo spark generator.

http://www.tanklesswaterheatersdirect.com/shop/tanklesswaterheaters/aquastar/aquastarindex.htm
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: glenn-k on December 19, 2006, 10:35:07 AM
Looks like there is an update on the 125 HX - the 1600 H apparently supersedes it now.

http://www.tanklesswaterheatersdirect.com/shop/tanklesswaterheaters/aquastar/boschaquastar1600hbuypage.asp
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: MountainDon on December 19, 2006, 11:27:33 AM
Glenn is right on the money, as usual. We have a Rinnai, there are several models. Some mount inside, other are exterior mounts. I chose an exterior mount and used the reclaimed space inside for an emergency supplies closet... water, food, first aid stuff. There are about a half dozen models in each of the int/ext series to choose from. Just calculate your probable maximum hot water flow and go from there. Yes, like most better things they cost more up front but if you don't use any warm/hot water you don't use any gas either. Very cool, or is that hot?!

Manufacturer's website at    http://www.foreverhotwater.com

You could stick it on an outside wall, enclose it in an insulated "blister" if necessary.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Caroline on December 19, 2006, 11:55:11 AM
Awesome, I had never heard of tankless hot water... This may be just the ticket.

Propane is an option in Queen Charlotte, but I am a bit nervous of having it when I plan to be away for months at a time and possibly having a renter - any thoughts on the safety issues with propane? I keep hearing stories of leaks and explosions...

Caroline
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: jraabe on December 19, 2006, 12:46:34 PM
Propane is quite safe and is used extensively to heat cabins and buildings left for long periods of time. It would certainly be safer than a wood stove with renters who may not be as careful as you would be.

A couple of suggestions:
• Unlike natural gas, propane is heavier than air and can pool in a confined unvented space - don't put a propane water heated in an unvented cellar.
• Buy new, high quality appliances with all the current safety gizmos. This is not the place to save money on antiques.
• Get direct vent equipment where possible and have good whole house ventilation so air is exchanged regularly (this is true for any combustion equipment - wood, oil, etc.)

[highlight]Note[/highlight] - When ever you find a new topic on the forum that you are not familiar with, do a search for the term in the main CountryPlans search box. It now does a pretty good job!  ::) Here is a search for "tankless water heater" - it searches everything on the entire CountryPlans site.

(It's bit of a mouthful that even TinyURL choked on) - http://countryplans.com/search2.html?domains=www.countryplans.com&q=tankless+water+heater&sa=Search&sitesearch=www.countryplans.com&client=pub-4645216745855692&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A11&hl=en

Here is the search box link:
http://www.countryplans.com/search.html

Question to Glenn and other Web experts... the new search box finds the old forum posts that are still on the CP server. For some reason they cannot be read. I can download the file to my desktop and read it (these are simple html files) but the old wwwboard 2.0 system won't show them online. I have turned off the posting files so we are not subject to the spam attacks the old forum experienced. However, it would be nice if we could make these old posts readable. Any ideas?
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: MountainDon on December 19, 2006, 03:49:36 PM
If I was renting a place out with a wood stove I'd probably want to chain and lock the door shut or some such thing. I've seen enough homeowners do stupid things with their own wood stoves; I wouldn't want a renter playing with fire in my property, but then that's just pessimist, cynical me.

If you are planning on being away for periods of time and don't have a renter, and if the weather could turn to freezing, be sure to make allowances for that in all the plumbing... sloping pipes (use PEX, it's a little forgiving) , drains at low points, a point to introduce pressurized air to blow the pipes clean, and use RV anti-freeze in the plumbing drain traps.

Does it get that cold there? It's snowing here today and up in the mtns where my cabin will be it does definitely freeze. Expecting at least 6 inches, maybe a foot up there.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Amanda_931 on December 19, 2006, 07:49:15 PM
The only iffy thing about demand water heaters is that you have to have water pressure, and the minimum required--usually about half of standard city water--is still a bit iffy.

In a major electrical grid failure, that can be a problem.

In town, with a giant water tower--no problem.  As long as they can get water up there there's plenty of pressure.

In the country, as long as your pressure pump works, again no problem.

I have two sets of friends who do not have standard water pressure.  One on- one off-grid.  One has a near artesian spring above the level of their house.  With 1" pipes from a cistern also above the house they do a pretty fair job of simulating water pressure for everything except a possible tankless water heater.  They have a home-brew solar water heater with a tank-type electric heater for backup.

The others have a standard propane tank type heater, run water from the creek with a ram pump up to a cistern.

I usually have spring and rain water available.

Acquaintances who rent out a log cabin on their property have done what Don recommends--disabled the wood stove in there.  
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: glenn-k on December 19, 2006, 11:01:01 PM
John said

QuoteQuestion to Glenn and other Web experts... the new search box finds the old forum posts that are still on the CP server. For some reason they cannot be read

www.countryplans.com/bbs/messages/1508.html

Above is one of the heater files.

I can't seem to find anything past countryplans.com - maybe the files are not public or shared  or something like that.  

There should be a sub-folder called /bbs with one in it called /messages with a ton of numbers of messages - this would be 1508, but I can't get to it.  I don't know why.  I'm only medium hi tech --- there are a bunch here now better than me. :)
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: MountainDon on December 19, 2006, 11:28:11 PM
QuoteThe only iffy thing about demand water heaters is that you have to have water pressure, and the minimum required--usually about half of standard city water--is still a bit iffy.

I hope I edited this quote thing properly to work... only way to know for sure is to try.

That temporarily slipped my mind... I had the concern when we went tankless and solved the problem by putting a UPS (uninteruptible power supply like for a computer) into the system. It'll carry us through a few hours without any problem.

And yes, this is in town. When the area was first built 21-22 years ago we had too much pressure. City has planned too good for future use. The developer had to put in a pressure reducer. One of the many things they tried to get away with/without doing.

As for country living, on grid I think I'd want o pressure pump on the whole system no matter what. Same for off grid, except there I'd be planning on enough battery pack to keep everything going for several sunless days. I also figure that a cistern that holds a few days worth of water would be smart in case the submersible pump fails. Then I'd have a spare pressure pump all setup with bypass valves so all I'd have to do is pull a couple valve handles and a switch for the electrical... (that's what I have in the RV as it's possible to be in the middle of knowhere and have the pump fail leaving you with tanks of water under your feet and no easy way to get at it. I'm big on redundancy wherever easy and/or not prohibitively expensive.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Caroline on December 21, 2006, 12:48:26 AM
I was wondering if anyone has an opinion about sun panels in a place where it rains a lot... Is it still worth while? What could one expect to run off of them? Can you store energy easily for a rainy day (literally)? What does that kind of system cost?

Caroline
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: glenn-k on December 21, 2006, 01:04:43 AM
A lady a few miles from here gave a "professional" $35000 to install a system for her.  She was in a fog area part time.  He did not even sell her a backup generator in that price.

She went to try her system out -- stayed one night -- dead batteries -- totally unusable.  I made suggestions but he was their chosen installer and he got mad when I tried to help her out.  He was going to step out of the deal before they purchased from him, but they managed to talk him out of it.  I just stayed clear of it.  The gal was a bit determined to do things their own way.   Her attitude was such that I did not try to sway it.  I just did the septic system and got out of there.

You will not get much on cloudy days - maybe 5 percent.  How about a wind generator.  Got Wind?
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: MountainDon on December 21, 2006, 01:32:34 AM
... at least the rain will keep the panels clean...   :)

Ah! A topic dear to my heart! I interpret "sun panel" to mean a solar photovoltaic panel to make electricity. There are a lot of internet resources, some better than others. An excellent no BS vendor would be   http://www.thesolar.biz    in New Mexico. They have a nice website that you can browse, but they do all their dealing over the phone with a real live person! Give them a call. Be prepared with a list of what electrical items you would just absolutely need to have, those you'd like and so on. (You can also find various worksheets on the web and workup some numbers yourself.) Thesolar.biz not only sells alternative power equipment but they live and run their business off solar; practise what they preach, so to speak. There's also backwoodssolar.com  from Idaho at   http://www.backwoodssolar.com      They have a print catalog they will mail out that has some good info for learning about how things work and what does what. They do seem to cost more tha thesolar.biz, but worth a look. They also live what they sell.

A system to store electricity for night time and cloudy day use requires a bank of batteries among other goodies. How many depends on your power use and days without sun. One thing you can do, since this will be a new from the ground up thing is eliminate the power hogs. Use those compact fluorescent screw in bulbs, no electric space heaters, an energy efficient fridge (a Sunfrost would be great if you can afford it), no refrigerated air conditioning, etc. It is surprising how much you can cut down your power usage. Of course developing a habit to turn off lights helps a lot, tho' with those compact FL lights there's a trade off in durability. If you turn them on-off too frequently they don't last out their full life potential. But they use about 25% the power of a wasteful regular light bulb/heater. Batteries add to the cost of a system.

I will be having an off grid sytem for the cabin in the woods. I'm lucky in having an excellent solar south facing spot and being in NM where the sun shines a lot. I also have a grid-tie on my city home that supplies a portion of our needs there. On a good sunny day the systen usually produces a surfeit of power and it sells back to the power company at the same rate I buy power from them. Meter runs backwards. City home also has a battery bank, meant only to carry us over in a power outage. Only some lighting circuits and the fridge and freezer run off the batteries / inverter. There's also a backup generator; which the off grid site will need as well.

Anyways, I've run off at the mouth again... I'll step off the soapbox and say goodnight.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Amanda_931 on December 21, 2006, 08:06:22 PM
I read in a mystery story once that parts of the Aleutians get less than a week's worth of sunny days.

Solar anything won't work there.  especially since, in the wintertime days are so short.

This is the first of these pages (some are maps) that I found.  How many hours/day are you likely to have sun, summer and winter.

http://www.solar4power.com/solar-power-insolation-window.html

links to maps here:

http://www.solar4power.com/solar-power-global-maps.html

The U.S.Canada map shows us a little lower than some of the other maps--and people do just fine here--except for the first two weeks in January--at least once a decade we see no sun at all during that period (although once I saw stars during that time--so I knew that the sky hadn't completely disappeared).
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: MountainDon on December 21, 2006, 09:26:10 PM
Thanks Amanda.
Oh my goodness! I just looked at the solar map   http://www.solar4power.com/map2-global-solar-power.html     and  solar potentail is about nil! Try for wind power???
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Amanda_931 on December 22, 2006, 07:35:12 PM
Getting a tower high enough without disturbing the neighbors would be a problem in town.

No wind to speak of right where I am--half-way down a very large hill.  It has its good points.  I can fairly cheerfully ignore tornado warnings.  But when I used to walk out by Old Hickory Dam every evening, some months it looked like there was wind enough for an efficient turbine.

And like I said, the figures on that map look pretty low to me.  Three and a half or four hours a day of sunlight, when some friends down in a hole have all the comforts of home, mostly run their generator in January.  And count their sunlight as four or five hours a day.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: MountainDon on December 22, 2006, 08:15:48 PM
QuoteAnd like I said, the figures on that map look pretty low to me.  Three and a half or four hours a day of sunlight, when some friends down in a hole have all the comforts of home, mostly run their generator in January.  And count their sunlight as four or five hours a day.

I believe the hours before 10 AM and after something like 2 PM don't count for as much as the hours within the more productive timeframe. The further north you go the worse things are in winter... gets dark early
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Amanda_931 on December 22, 2006, 08:49:46 PM
Unless you've got some sort of tracking.  Even if it's going outside and turning the array by hns.  I've seen it done!

Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: youngins on December 22, 2006, 10:05:45 PM
MountainDon,

Our 5 acres is just north of you - just outside Fort Garland, Colorado. We are both in a good area for PV.

So, did you say you are putting your panels on the tops of those trees?  :)

Chris
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: MountainDon on December 22, 2006, 10:43:45 PM
QuoteMountainDon,
We are both in a good area for PV.
So, did you say you are putting your panels on the tops of those trees?  :)

Chris

;) Fortunately, as well as those tall Ponderosa Pines there's a meadow on the south end with a wide open southern exposure...

(//%5BIMG%5Dhttps://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q75/djmillerbucket/landscape/lightsnowfallviewtosouthmeadow.jpg)[/img]

Loads of PV potential.

You are located a bit east of one of my favorite Colorado locales; the Silverton - Ouray area. Love the 4WD opportunities
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: glenn-k on December 22, 2006, 10:52:07 PM
... and the gigantic hot spring
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: MountainDon on December 22, 2006, 11:06:03 PM
Quote... and the gigantic hot spring



...not so lucky...  :'(  hot spring is down the road a ways. There are honest to good hot springs scattered throughout these mtns. Some better called warm; others actually hot, but none hot enought o burn ya. Just a few miles north is the Valle Caldera, now a National Preserve. It's the site of an ancient volcano and sits  on top of a whole lot of geo thermal power potential. However, being a preserve that won't happen. The Valle is also the home of one of the largest Elk herds. They (elk) also wander around my land at will.   ;D  And one last tidbit of local info, Ted Turner (CNN) has one of his large ranches nearby as well.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Amanda_931 on December 24, 2006, 12:00:05 PM
If anybody but me had trouble with that picture:

https://[img]i133.photobucket.com/albums/q75/djmillerbucket/landscape/lightsnowfallviewtosouthmeadow.jpg

this works:

https://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q75/djmillerbucket/landscape/lightsnowfallviewtosouthmeadow.jpg
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: littlegirlgo on December 30, 2006, 07:16:20 AM
Solar fridge - another option for a solar fridge is a Sundanzer.
http://www.sundanzer.com/
They will run off a 75 watt solar panel. Cheaper then sunfrost. I have looked at two in peoples homes and plan to get one for my off grid home in Ky.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Amanda_931 on December 30, 2006, 03:48:24 PM
I'm not at all sure I could deal with a chest type refrigerator.

I am told that the people I know in the county who have them love them.  Certainly, for the money it's better than no refrigerator.  But the source isn't always trustworthy.

All of those very low power jobs use the same compressor.  Rumor hath it that the big difference is that horizontal sealing gasket in the Sunfrost.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: littlegirlgo on December 31, 2006, 11:38:54 AM
I had a chest style propane refridge once and I did not mind the bending over. But I can see where some might not want that. The advantage is the cold air does not fall out thus not losing as much energy when you open them. Sundanzers have an electrolux made compressor/ motor which is a little different then Sunfrosts.

Happy New Year all  ;D
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: MountainDon on December 31, 2006, 02:11:53 PM
That's what I figured... the cold air doesn't spill out of a chest fridge. But having a small chest freezer for many years I know I would not be happy with a chest fridge. So I have to pay the costs associated with an upright.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Caroline on January 14, 2007, 01:02:37 PM
Hello,

Not sure if anyone will get this question as I have not posted anything for a while, but I was wondering if any of you have thoughts on future expanxsion for my 16' x 20' cabin... I am about to decide where to set it on the land and I would like to consider this now...

One thought I have is to actually leave space for another smaller (10 x 12?) cabin and then join the two with a dogtrot...

The land is 100' x 25', a long thin strip with the view running along one of the long sides.

Any creative suggestions?
Caroline
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: glenn-k on January 14, 2007, 01:55:00 PM
We'll talk to you even though you haven't been real sociable. :)  Looks like you are trying to mend your ways. ::)

That could work as well as a future room added off to the side as in the Victoria's Cottage (http://www.countryplans.com/victoria.html) or Enchilada Plans Kit. (http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings/43.html)
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: desdawg on January 14, 2007, 11:39:42 PM
Caroline, are you on septic or sewer? On a lot that narrow you would have to be careful where you place your septic system so it doesn't interfere with your future expansion. And make it deep enough so you can maintain 1/4" per foot fall from the second structure's plumbing. Just a thought since I install septic systems (and other utilities). Even if you are on a sewer system you will need to make sure you bring your sewer line in deep enough to accomodate.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Caroline on January 14, 2007, 11:45:36 PM
The cabin is in town, so I will be connected to the sewer system. But thanks for pointing that out... I am planning to walk around the property next week with the contractor, so we'll look at these things then.

I really like the Victoria Cottage. I will talk to the contractor and see if the plans would come in handy...

The project is set to start in March. I will post pics when trhings are under way. I can't wait!

Thanks!
C.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Caroline on January 23, 2007, 11:34:50 PM
Hey there...

Anybody has advice regarding windows?

I really like wooden windows, but the wind and rain in the Northwest take their toll on them.
Any suggestions?

Caroline
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: MountainDon on January 23, 2007, 11:53:43 PM
QuoteHey there...

Anybody has advice regarding windows?

I really like wooden windows, but the wind and rain in the Northwest take their toll on them.
Caroline

Here in the SW the sun is the wood killer. plus the usual low, single digit, humidity except for July when the monsoons come, plays havoc as well.

For what it's worth I like Pella windows. I have a housefull of them, some double hung and some casement. All have the Pella aluminum cladding on the exterior for lowest maintenance, and natural wood on the inside. Best of everything as far as I'm concerned. My opinion only.  

I also have a house I rent out that is fitted with locally made extruded vinyl windows. They're double hung. I like them, no maintenance, but don't really like the white vinyl look. They weren't as expensive as the Pella either.

I also have a couple of aluminum windowed condos and they are my least favorite window.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: borgdog on January 24, 2007, 11:48:52 AM
I really like your 16x20 plan, and the idea to add on later is a good one that I plan to follow as well.  You do want to make sure you know where you wish to add on so you can leave an access to get to it.  Right now you only have a front door, and the only real other way I could see to add on would be through the bedroom, which would make that room less than functional as a bedroom.  You could also take out the washer/dryer and put a door/hallway there, but that would involve moving lots of plumbing.  My current thought is to not have a bedroom in my initial 16x20 (I do have the VC plans BTW, and love them) but use the loft area for sleeping, and later on my addition would be a bedroom on the main level.  This would allow for a much larger living room area in the initial cabin/house.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Amanda_931 on January 27, 2007, 10:28:43 AM
A while back, some of us fell in love with some Mexican windows--all steel, lots of little panes, may have only opened a block of panes in the center, big windows.  They may still be available in this country as industrial windows, probably remarkably expensive.

I want louvers on my screen porches.  One of which would be used for sleeping, so I'd really rather not have rain blowing inside.

Both kinds of windows are kind of scarce right now, they tend to be leaky/uninsulatable.  We don't do that any more.

I have enough issues with "chemicals" that I'd avoid vinyl windows (I don't qualify as chemically sensitive--for which I am truly grateful--but I probably would have if I'd worked in polluted areas much longer).  Probably go with aluminum as an economy choice (but do consider acid rain and "white rust").  

Absolutely, with Dan on thinking in advance where an addition could be built.  Especially on your city lot.

Also consider things like fire exits, what happens if you wake up in the middle of the night with the stomach flu, and other, ahem, fine merchandise (long story) that we always ignore when we consider how wonderful things will be in our new houses.
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: Caroline on January 27, 2007, 12:34:43 PM
Amanda & MountainDon:
Thanks for the input on the windows... I have a friend who built a house here 2 yrs ago and he chose aluminum clad wood windows. I must say they are very pretty, though a bit more expensive. I am leaning towards that choice... I thought that perhaps I would choose windows that do not open facing the view (and bad weather), and have the other double-hung for air circulation. The only problem is in the bedroom - I would either have to keep the bathroom door (& window) open to have air current, or have part of the view window "openable". Do you think that aluminum clad wood windows would keep the rain out (imagine gusts of wet wet rain)? What about rot under the metal cladding over time? I am considering buying from a Calgary-based company called Gienow. Their website is:  http://www.gienow.com/index.asp

Dan:
I also see the future addition coming through the bedroom. My thought is that this bedroom would become an "office" or reading/writing room, and I would add on a small bedroom. I am not sure that I will ever do it, but it is nice to have the option - ya never know! The bed will be built in for the current bedroom, but could always be gently taken apart and re-used in the new bedroom.

One more question: what about the floors? I have an affection for wood. I really like the wide planks (like @ 6' across) but I wonder if the cabin is too small for that or it there are more problems with them down the line. Any ideas?

Cheers, Caroline
Title: Re: 16' x 20' cabin design
Post by: MountainDon on January 27, 2007, 08:52:02 PM
QuoteDo you think that aluminum clad wood windows would keep the rain out (imagine gusts of wet wet rain)? What about rot under the metal cladding over time?
Hey Caroline. I have no doubt that the aluminum clad wood windows would do the job keeping out the rain etc. My reason for being so sure is drawn from my experience with the Pella casement windows in particular. They're on the driveway/garage end of the house. When they're locked closed I can go outside and start my diesel up. Going back inside the house I cannot smell the smelly thing (especially smelly on a cold morning), BUT if I just lift the unlock handle there is an almost immediate smell of diesel inside the house. The gaskets they use seal 100% so no water inside either.  As for rot under the aluminum I would be surprised if that ever became a problem. Pella also has a special "seacoast" finish available for areas in close proximity to salt water. I think it's mainly a color fastness thing... check their website, I think it's   pella.com. Those Canadian windows looked okay as well. If they're made for the cold Canadian climate should be good. (I used to live in Canada... had triple pane sealed glass units and vinyl casements. Worked well.)  That's where I developed my dislike for solid aluminum windows because they frosted up real bad on the inside. I think there might be some aluminum windows with a thermal break built in to help with that problem.

Maybe PEG or someone has had some experience they can relate regarding windows in the Pacific NW??