CountryPlans Forum

A very disturbing vote towards dictatorship  :'(

http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/20061002-102007-4005r.htm

Congress faced a choice last week between constitutional courage and cowardice. It chose cowardice, and renounced the Founding Fathers. Those who risked and gave that last full measure of devotion at Valley Forge, Gettysburg and Normandy would be ashamed. The Republic is withering in foolish imitation of Rome.

ps go to link for entire article

The small town in Oregon I lived in  -1970 - had lots of examples of crooked cops.  One good Oregon State Policeman was a friend of mine -- he couldn't take the corruption and quit.  That is part of the reason I chose to move from there.  CA is bad but not as bad as there.  I know, PEG --- too many freakin' liberals.   ;D

Looks like the police state there is only getting worse when people can't stage a peaceful protest without getting shot at- pepper sprayed and attacked by the authorities they pay to protect their right to freedom of speech. Welcome to Police State America.

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/10/347085.shtml

http://to-the-dome.blogspot.com/2006/10/vicious-attacks-on-anti-bush.html

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/10/347062.shtml  

Same thing happened in Seattle a few years ago.

http://www.counterpunch.org/seattlediary.html

(http://www.counterpunch.org/darth1.jpg)
Photo copyright the above linked site.

I guess it's not too surprising that the Washington Times got upset about that.  

(everybody should, but....)

I used to belong to a forum that some topic or other featured a photo of a Washington Times vending box that had been spray-painted "Moonie Rag."

I hadn't heard about the Washington times - was referred to the Indymedia site from Whatreaallyhappened I think -- I checked to see if it was Portland , Oregon or Portland, Maine since I was from near that area.

Sassy's link was to the Washington Times.  And it is DC

Oh oh-- I didn't look far enough. :-/

Had another thought about this.

I guess people who participate in this sort of activity are just setting themselves up for abuse by these guys as it's hard to tell what they are going to do.  Not all of them will trample girls with horses.

This article probably should not have been posted under "Land of The Free" --- It should have been under "Home of The Brave."

There has been a great deal of erosion the last 30 years in the rights of the people. This has accelerated the last six. Using the power of fear (it used to be communism and is now terrorism), and the blind call to patriotism, great swaths of carefully divided powers have been moved over to the executive branch and invested in a protected and semi-secret inner circle.

This is more than troubling. It is eroding faith in the fairness of law and the support of police and enforcement of order. When that goes so goes the foundation of the entire country.

We must insure that the next administration and congress reverses this trend and goes back to the foundation to reinforce the powers and protections of private citizens.

(And we need to learn, as a society, to be less susceptible to manipulation by fear.)

What John said.

(unless, of course, we want to petition to be part of Britain again.

but they may be doing a bit better than we are right now)

I'm here at a hotel in Ocean Shores, WA running my laptop on the WiFi and taking beach walks while my wife is at a school nurse conference nearby.

I had an idea... see what you think.

[highlight]Stand 4 Democracy[/highlight], a silent assertion in support of a return to a "government of the people, for the people and by the people".

Every Wednesday, at noon, supporters would stop whatever else they were doing and stand up and be silent for one minute.

The website stand4democracy.org (not yet registered) would have an on-line statement of principles and a pledge form that folks could sign. A running tally at the site would count members. To join, all one had to do was to affirm their support of basic democratic principals and be willing to stand quietly for one minute every Wednesday. There would be down-loadable templates for printing out standard fold and tear business card sized information cards that could be given to others. It would ask them to stand up for democracy too.

The hope would be that this becomes a viral thing. People see others standing, perhaps take a card and then do it themselves next Wednesday.

The future evolution of the site might include a forum where ideas about what a real democracy might look like could develop. However, I think the site should be very slow to take a specific political position, so as not to get mired in the divisive political rancor now surging back and forth.

Your thoughts?

Sounds a little like the Women in Black protest.

When I was part of a long strike, I went to the road outside of the plant nearly every afternoon to join the protest.  There were a few organized signs, but I for one carried a large pad of paper and some marking pens.  Occasionally people borrowed them and wrote their own signs.

Might be a better to have suggestions from the members than having today's issue come from the top down.  Although if everything's up to the members, then nothing will ever get done.

Seems to me

the powers that be

will never stand

for democra-see. :(



Couldn't help myself-- I think fascism is here to stay for a while. :-/

There goes another one.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=15archive/&entry_id=9952

Bush signs torture bill; Americans lose essential freedom

The provisions of Bush's new torture law mean that Americans have lost the key, constitutional right on which Anglo-American criminal law (and criminal-law procedures in true democracies in general) is founded; that's the basic right of an individual to know why he or she is being apprehended and detained. Now, technically, as in Stalin's Soviet Union, Hitler's Germany, Mao's China or Pol Pot's Cambodia, anyone labeled an "enemy combatant" - again, by whom; by Bush? - can be whisked away and never heard from again. That kind of authority, in the hands of corrupt or untruthful politicians, may or may not be an effective tool in some kind of "war on terror," but it certainly can be a useful tool when it comes to silencing their opponents.

Amanda: Yes, like women in black (http://www.womeninblack.net/) - a powerful but quiet movement. And yes, the issues have to come up from below and the idea of self printed cards that are handed out could make the point you did with your site made signs... but this would be more on a one-to-one basis. What would you say on your card? My first one would state a personal committment to not being fooled, "I will not be controlled by fear of things I can not see."

Of local interest - the Langley movie theater, the Clyde, will be showing two movies for free this weekend. Sunday Oct. 22nd, "Uncovered: The War in Iraq (http://www.truthuncovered.com/clips.php)" - at 12 noon, and at 1:15, "Iraq for Sale: The War Profiteers (http://iraqforsale.org/)". Might be of interest to any locals around the island.

Just a small example of a local business person taking an economic (and perhaps political) risk.

[highlight]If the people won't stand up, democracy can be pulled down.[/highlight]

Our local Sixth Street Cinema will be playing "Iraq for Sale" on November 2 @7:30pm.  There's another good video that you can now watch on YouTube I think - by Aaron Russo (The Rose & Trading Places) titled:  "From Freedom to Facsism"  it has been playing around the nation at theaters & auditoriums but I guess he felt the message was so important that he's offering it for free to anyone who cares to watch it.

I'm with you, John, I will not be controlled by fear... that's why I try to examine all sides & why I probably sound like a broken record when I post on the Off Topic - Ideas, politics, rants thread.  

I have friends who just don't want to look at the whole picture or beneath the surface as they are still raising kids - I tell them that there won't be a "free republic/democracy" anymore for them to live in if we don't wake up & see what is happening to our nation.  

The laws are already in place for a dictatorship & police state whether we want to acknowledge that fact or not with the disposal of the Posse Commitatus (sp?) Act & HR6166 that Bush just signed into law which takes away our right to habeas corpus - a hearing before an "impartial" judge & jury - now I can be arrested for "domestic terrorism" for speaking out & would have no recourse.  It is a sad day for America.   :'(

Had never heard about the Women in Black until recently - hopefully they are able to reach people - it is a tragedy what is happening in Palestine & the middle East... I try to subtly  :o interject into conversations a little doubt & questioning of the status quo & hopefully the people I am speaking to will ask more questions & do a little searching on their own.  

I have not given up hope  :)

QuoteI have not given up hope  :)

I'm with you!

A working democracy is a statement of faith and hope - Faith that the governed (the People), given full information, can make better decisions than kings and presidents - and Hope that the people are wise enough to not be fooled too often.

If faith and hope cannot sustain democracy then a country will have increasing oppression (as elites most naturally move to take advantage of their positions). This builds until such time as the disenfranchised rise up and throw off the control of the elites. When they do this they do not normally replace the old government with a democracy, but instill a government composed of the winning fighters who want retribution. They are the ones with the guns and they hold the government offices. And, most importantly, are now responsible for order. This generally leads to a heavy handed new order of power elites and the cycle starts again.

Here is an earlier statement of the faith and hope that forms the fragile foundation of democracy:

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time" - A. Lincoln.

A lot of people have been fooled... and (I sense) many of them are starting to wake up. Most people are more motivated by anger than hope or faith in democracy. Fortunately for the U.S., this anger and retribution will most likely express itself at the ballot box and not overflow the banks of the democratic process and lead to real banana republic type revolt. However, the voting and electoral system has recently been manipulated to some extent and this is troubling. There can be no democracy if the people do not have faith in the electoral process.

This is the foundation and it needs work!

Here is a little "police state" for you...

http://www.brasscheck.com/videos/cl/cl3.html

Who Am I?

I have destroyed more men than all the wars of all nations combined.

I massacre millions of people each and every generation.

I have wrecked more homes than all other causes known to you.

I cause the downfall of the greatest civilizations in history.

I spare no one.

My victims are rich and poor, young and old, strong and weak.

I do not respect color or creed.

Children shall know me to their eternal sorrow.

I cast my shadow over every thought of man.

I hide in unseen places and I go about my work silently.

You have been warned of my presence, but you do not listen.

I never sleep and I am everywhere you are.

You cannot hide from me.

Illness, revulsion, disease and death follow me and are my friends.

I will give you nothing.

I will take everything you have and then seek more.

I will cause you to turn away from all you once believed in.

I will blind your eyes to the sins of your elected leaders.

I go where my master orders.

The Prince of Darkness alone sends me into your life.

Once allowed inside, seldom am I asked to leave.

America, allow me to give you rest.

I will remove all your worries and concerns.

I will take away any concern for individual responsibility.

I will bring you bliss.

I am your friend.

I am Apathy.

I sent that out widely, but where did it come from?

I saw it on the website of a candidate running on the Constitutionalist party platform in Utah.  I had read it before but don't know where it originated from.  It's thought provoking so decided to post it.

A teacher friend of mine believes that Google is a nearly perfect way to detect student's plagiarism.

Use the most striking phrase in quotations ("Illness, revulsion, disease and death" in this case) and hit search!

that turned up this (in addition to an LDS site)--a ways down on the page:

http://arepublic.blogspot.com/2006_03_01_arepublic_archive.html

QuoteWhen Jerry Hughes spoke in Kansas City a few years ago he read one of his poems.

Jerry Hughes was a link, so....

http://www.jerryhughes.blogspot.com/

real plans are being made to reinstate the draft... here's an article from Ron Paul - House Representative in Texas

Rethinking the Draft

November 27,  2006    

Once again the possibility of reinstating a military draft is being discussed in Washington, and while the idea seems remote it is not unthinkable.

Democratic Congressman Charles Rangel of New York, soon to be a powerful committee chair, has openly called for reinstating the Selective Service System. Retired Army General Barry McCaffrey claims that our ground forces in both Afghanistan and Iraq are stretched far too thin, and desperately need reinforcements. Meanwhile, other political and military leaders suggest that several hundred thousand additional troops might be needed simply to restore some semblance of order in Iraq. We are nearing the point where a choice will have to be made: either decrease our troop commitments in Iraq and Afghanistan significantly, or produce thousands of new military recruits quickly. So a discussion of military conscription is not purely academic.

Yet the Department of Defense remains steadfastly opposed to a draft. A Pentagon report stated that draft registration could be eliminated "with no effect on military mobilization and no measurable effect on military recruitment." Most military experts believe a draft would actually impair military readiness, despite the increase in raw manpower, because of training and morale problems.

So why is the idea of a draft even considered? One answer is that our military forces are spread far too thin, engaged in conflicts around the globe that are none of our business. With hundreds of thousands of troops stationed in literally hundreds of foreign nations, we simply don't have enough soldiers to invade and occupy every country labeled a threat or deemed ripe for regime change. Given the choice, many in Congress would rather draft more young bodies than rethink our role as world policeman and bring some of our troops home.

Military needs aside, some politicians simply love the thought of mandatory service to the federal government. The political right favors sending young people to fight in aggressive wars like Iraq. The political left longs to send young people into harm's way to save the world in places like Darfur. But both sides share the same belief that citizens should serve the needs of the state-- a belief our founders clearly rejected in the Declaration of Independence.

To many politicians, the American government is America. This is why, on a crude level, the draft appeals to patriotic fervor. Compulsory national service, whether in the form of military conscription or make-work programs like AmeriCorps, still sells on Capitol Hill. Conscription is wrongly associated with patriotism, when really it represents collectivism and involuntary servitude.

I believe wholeheartedly that an all-volunteer military is not only sufficient for national defense, but also preferable. It is time to abolish the Selective Service System and resign military conscription to the dustbin of American history. Five hundred million dollars have been wasted on Selective Service since 1979, money that could have been returned to taxpayers or spent to improve the lives of our nation's veterans.

Ronald Reagan said it best: "The most fundamental objection to draft registration is moral." The notion of involuntary servitude, in whatever form, is simply incompatible with a free society.

I frequently agree with Ron Paul (and occasionally wonder if he is related to an uncle-by-marriage).

But he does not mention all the reasons involved.

Professional military people really hate the idea of having people drafted for only a couple of years.  Not time enough to really get them trained, especially in things like submarine maintenance and repair.  So that's one reason they're for the status quo.

On the other hand, military service is pretty class segregated right now.  Not many children of members of Congress are serving, for instance.  So a draft, even if it did include, (and I think Rangel's plan includes this) educational deferments, non-military service (e.g., peace corps, vista) etc. would put a larger cross-section of the country into some sort of service to one's country.  Which I don't think I dislike too much.

But the draft is why the middle class turned against the Vietnam war.  Fear of their boys being drafted into that dreadful conflict.  Right now they're not so much involved.  Only the lower classes count.

And that may be the biggest reason of all for the professional military to hate the idea of a draft.  More civilians would have a stake in what the war was about.  And if they--"we the people"--thought it was stupid, money would certainly be lacking for wars, and/or new pet projects, more to spend on Star Wars, Haliburton, etc..

National Emergency
During the depths of the Depression, 1933, Franklin D. Roosevelt declared a National Emergency under the Trading With the Enemy Act, which somehow remained in effect until 1977 when Congress came to its senses to revoke the Emergency. That said, other Emergencies declared since then have left America under a continuous declared state of national emergency for the last seventy years.

What that means, essentially, is that the president is legally empowered at any given moment to suspend the Constitution, enforce martial law and inter of hundreds of thousands of U.S. citizens in detention camps without due process or criminal charge.

Congress made a further attempt to end the Emergencies with the National Emergencies Act back in 1978. All Emergencies were to end on September 14, 1978. Eminently sensible; in that year our biggest problem was disco.

What we have currently is a state of emergency inflation. Every little thing prompts a new Emergency, with all the unconstitutional powers ordinarily befitting a Major Emergency, allocated for Minor Emergencies. Bill Clinton declared no fewer than twelve National Emergencies. One of these was for Haiti. Yes, Haiti, an island of little strategic import to the United States. Somehow it was an emergency. Is this bad? A 1976 Senate report points out that there are no fewer than 470 extraordinary grants of power to the President, during times of Emergency. Some of them are alarming:

   In Time of war or national emergency, the President may appoint any qualified person whether or not already a member of the armed forces to any officer grade in the Army, Navy, Air Force or Marines. [10 USC 603]

In conjunction with:

   The President may suspend the operation of [laws] relating to the promotion, involuntary retirement, or separation of officers... [10 USC 644]

He can stuff you into the military and not let you out. Now. Be afraid of what Congress has done. Be very afraid.  

(posted on Daily Rotten)

Anyone looked into the Free State Project yet? Might be a good start....

Interesting concept - I barely heard of it before but looked it up.  I like the ideas - It's just that New Hampshire is so far away and I lack the motivation to do anything other than sit here and bellyache.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_State_Project

Hey your doing more than I can honestly say that I am. I cant even get a small shed on my place without the state wanting everything...

How close to the topic is this??....

A while back I read a book that I went and reccommended to darn near everyone I knew...

"What's So Great About America" by Dinesh D'Souza

Even with all the flaws this stuill is a great place to live!

and we call ourselves free...

Sorry , Mountain Don-- I want my own country. :)

QuoteSorry , Mountain Don-- I want my own country. :)

No problem, but since I haven't been able to figure out a way to get/be my own country, this will have to do. For now.

PS: I was born in and lived in Canada for 30 years, lived on the Isle of Man for a year, in England for 2 years, spent a year traveling in about 20 other european countries. I moved to the USA in 1985. Everything all considered, I'm happiest here!

I'm happy as long as they leave me alone. :)

I haven't been to enough other places for long enough to know what I'd like, so I would have to say that any place that has a power structure that is higher than me would be unacceptable -- I just have to live in my own little utopia.

I know that the voices in my head aren't real, but sometimes they have some pretty good ideas.  (I don't know who that was from.) :)

Ya try and stay off the radar screen.  :-X

Everywhere else has a power structure taller than here.  I read somewhere recently that the UK, London in particular, has more surveillance cameras per person/square foot, don't recall what ??? than anywhere else. That's going some when you consider how many you see walking around the average place here.  :o

And we have way too many laws about can't do this, must do that......  but I'm still not gonna move..

I pretend to have my own fiefdom, if not a country. I do have locked gates, barbed wire fences and probably more than enough "posted" signs, with admonishments to "beware of dog's mean owner" plus addendums of "NO hiking, fishing hunting, skateboarding .... scattered all around the fencelines.

Just to pick one thing... the right to own firearms.... there are many other places in the world where one can nolt, or can not easily own a firearm, especially a handgun! But that's another rant altogether!!!

Sounds good, Mountain Don.  I have my signs along with the $5000 day use fee's for unwanted visitors.  Haven't tried to see how well it works yet.  I'm trying to keep from gating my road if possible - I don't want to inconvenience the people I want or don't mind coming here, --- or myself.

The crazy thing is that people in general keep asking for more laws - crying -- whining -- complaining to big brother.  

England has even put speakers on some of their cameras now -- they can yell at you if you do a no no.

QuoteI'm trying to keep from gating my road if possible - I don't want to inconvenience the people I want or don't mind coming here, --- or myself.

The crazy thing is that people in general keep asking for more laws - crying -- whining -- complaining to big brother.  

I did the gate when one weekend I found someone camping just past the posted signs. Maybe it was a particularly bad day for me, but I was a bit PO'd! Made them get up and go right then!

And you are so right.... so many people cry and whine about this 'n' that and want government to look after this or that, without even trying to rub a brain cell or two together and think about the consequences, intended or not!

One of my credos is "personal responsibility"

America . . . Where your "Free" to do as you are told!!!

Ok then where can we make "Atlas Shrugged" happen?

I  hadn't read it but read the info in Wikipedia.  If only group activities really were attainable.

And if that particular orientation doesn't suit you, then there might be some Rajneeshis left in Wasco County Oregon, and somewhere there's a movement for "fundamentalist" Christians to move to South Carolina.  And I think there are a few more of those movements in parts of the country.

;)

I do love the logo.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/30/Freestateprojectlogo.jpg)

Still in denial?

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index975.htm

People keep sending me stuff about how horrible Microsoft Vista is/will be.

QuoteNSA helped Microsoft make Vista secure --Agency helped to bring OS into compliance with DOD requirements 10 Jan 2007 The U.S. agency best known for eavesdropping on telephone calls had a hand in the development of Microsoft Corp.'s Vista operating system, the software vendor confirmed yesterday.

Here's one source-- http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/01/10/HNnsamadevistasecure_1.html

Not totally sure I'd trust the Russian's take on how we are going to hell in a handbasket.

But here's an article on the U.S. Attorney's bit (I heard Gonzales on NPR yesterday and thought what he said sounded bogus):

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/01/court.html

QuoteIn an article headlined, "Bush Removal Ended Guam Investigation," The Los Angeles times reported that "a U.S. grand jury in Guam opened an investigation of controversial lobbyist Jack Abramoff more than two years ago, but President Bush removed the supervising federal prosecutor, and the probe ended soon after." With at least six prominent federal prosecutors recently removed from office, many of them managing large scale public corruption cases, many are wondering if history is not repeating itself.

Among those fired were Carol Lam, the U.S. Attorney for San Diego, who last year won a conviction against Congressman Duke Cunningham (R-CA) in the biggest bribery conviction in history, and Paul Charlton of Arizona, whose office is investigating charges involving land deals and influence peddling against of Republican Congressman Rick Renzi (R-AZ).

Well I think the main problem is that People buy land where there are problems and they expect the government to amend those problems for them...

For example...You move into an area with a lumber mill...Then you complain about the noise or the logging trucks wanting it shut down.... The thinking is that it would drive property values way up and you would make a killing

I believe that if you have issues with the mill you find another place to buy....Do the work before you buy..Buy what suits you...


We all hate the fact that immigrants come to america and make no effort to learn the laws, or the language...We resent having to listen to spanish to call about the cable bill or read spanish signs on restaurants....etc...

This is the same principle applied to land...You must become part of the community which you move to...It is not fair or reasonable to expect the community to alter their lands and lives to suit your plans...

So when Glenn says he wants to be left alone...It is valid because he moved out to the country in a remote area....

Here where we are in South Carolina...It is way out in the middle of nowhere...About 5 years ago they started building these mountainside developments called the Cliffs...Very exclusive.. half a million dollar homes and up....

The spin off from that was dozens of slightly less exclusive housing developments.. golf courses country clubs horse stables..Etc...

Taxes have gone through the roof...There are ordinances out the wazoo...They are starting to look down upon people with a tractor in the yard (nevermind this is traditional farm land) woodpiles, woodstoves, clotheslines....all frowned upon...

All the people that moved out here from the city have expected the same rules and regulations to inflate and protect their property values to follow them out here.

Enough influential people get on the local cunty and city councils and prohibitive ordinaces keep getting passed.

The same thing as Hispanics moving here and instead of becomming part of the community and learning the language...They expect us to learn their language and change for them....The new property owners are doing the exact same thing.

It used to be safe to just run away to the wilderness to excape ordinances and the demands of other property owners who are trying to artificially inflate and maintain their property values... But now there are all these movements where retirement villages and communities are built on what used to be wilderness...They target people with lots of money and they promise to change the laws of the land of the areas in which they are built

It sucks.. but this is the way things seem to be going... This leaves those of us that wish to be left alone with no place to run to....To avoid rules and regs....To avoid other people telling us what needs to be done with and on our properties....In effect our daily freedoms are being diminished because of it.

Very cogently put.  :) Couldn't have put it better myself. and I didn't  :'(

QuotePeople keep sending me stuff about how horrible Microsoft Vista is/will be.

QuoteNSA helped Microsoft make Vista secure --Agency helped to bring OS into compliance with DOD requirements 10 Jan 2007 The U.S. agency best known for eavesdropping on telephone calls had a hand in the development of Microsoft Corp.'s Vista operating system, the software vendor confirmed yesterday.

Here's one source-- http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/01/10/HNnsamadevistasecure_1.html

Not totally sure I'd trust the Russian's take on how we are going to hell in a handbasket.

But here's an article on the U.S. Attorney's bit (I heard Gonzales on NPR yesterday and thought what he said sounded bogus):

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/01/court.html

QuoteIn an article headlined, "Bush Removal Ended Guam Investigation," The Los Angeles times reported that "a U.S. grand jury in Guam opened an investigation of controversial lobbyist Jack Abramoff more than two years ago, but President Bush removed the supervising federal prosecutor, and the probe ended soon after." With at least six prominent federal prosecutors recently removed from office, many of them managing large scale public corruption cases, many are wondering if history is not repeating itself.

Among those fired were Carol Lam, the U.S. Attorney for San Diego, who last year won a conviction against Congressman Duke Cunningham (R-CA) in the biggest bribery conviction in history, and Paul Charlton of Arizona, whose office is investigating charges involving land deals and influence peddling against of Republican Congressman Rick Renzi (R-AZ).

Sometimes we need to look at the way the rest of the world sees us just to see ourselves.  We can easily fool ourselves - fooling the rest of the world is harder.  I have the handbasket - looks like I'm on my way.

Vista - I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.  Windows is already bad enough without government assistance.  If that is all we are offered then I will either never upgrade or go to a different operating system.  I don't need any more spooks in my computer.

QuoteVista is a disaster. Microsoft is so desperate to get the entertainment industry locked into its platform that they'll destroy themselves to get there.

http://www.boingboing.net/2007/01/13/vista_suicide_note_r.html

Don

I have never told anyone else what they should do on their own land...It is none of my business as long as I am not at risk of being hurt on my land...

I expect the same privacy on my land...For nobody else to come onto it and make demands of me about my land for their benefit...

I promise not to blow them up....And they should promise to stay the hell off my land unless invited...

It seems pretty simple...But this is not the way of the world any longer.

Here in Carolina and other warmer climates the Government does not want traditional land usage...

Here a generation ago in the country taxes were non existent...and. a lot of people had orchards in their back yards and they all raised hogs...Meaning that the majority of their food was grown or raised on their own land...

They did not in turn have to work a full time high paying job...And thus paid out no Income taxes...

Self sufficient is a nasty nasty word for the government...We need to get a regular job so they can take 30-40% of the money earned off the top....And then pay them another 5-10% state stax when we buy goods that we used to make ourselves at home.

Benevolance - check this out...

We The People (http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2007-01-20.htm)

Within months, in all probability just before the Easter break, the hot topic of the day in every single law school in America will be the decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals in our case entitled, We The People v. The  U.S. Government.

Given the enormous and far-reaching implications of this decision, either in favor of the People or against them, law school professors everywhere will be anxious to analyze and "mine" the decision, discussing it in their faculty and academic forums and bringing it the attention of the young minds that fill their classrooms. Many will likely rush to further explore the gravity of the ruling and publish articles in Law Review journals.  

It will be an exciting time, indeed -- especially for the ordinary non-aligned citizen taxpayers of this great Country.

The excitement will permeate Give Me Liberty 2007, our three-day conference scheduled for March 29-31.  

[highlight]Think about it. For the first time in the entire history of our nation -- since the adoption of our Bill of Rights in 1791-- a Court is about to declare the legal meaning of one of the five individual Rights guaranteed by the First Amendment. [/highlight]

[highlight]Not just any Right, but the mother of all Rights -- the Right that caps all the others, the so-called "Capstone Right."

The First Amendment is, undoubtedly, the most important sentence in the entire Constitution. It reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the Right of the People peaceably to assemble, and to Petition the government for a Redress of Grievances." [/highlight]

[size=12]Within the meaning of the last ten words of the First Amendment is the Right of each individual (and the minority) to hold government accountable to each and every provision of the Constitution, including all the other enumerated and un-enumerated Rights. This is why the Petition Clause is called the "Capstone Right."  [/size]

What good would it do to design and adopt a Constitution based on popular sovereignty that guaranteed individual, un-alienable Rights, if the individual himself had not the power to prevent the Government from violating those Rights, non-violently?  

Given the historical evidentiary documentation regarding the Right of Petition and the common sense design of our Constitution, we believe the Court has no choice but to declare that when the Government violates the Constitution, the People have the Right to Petition the Government for a Redress of Grievances, the Government has an obligation to respond to the Petitions, and the People have the Right to withdraw their financial support from the Government until their Grievances are Redressed.  

Go to the link above to read the rest of the article...

Sassy

This is great stuff...And I used to believe that people with legal and moral superiority on their side would always come out ahead.

We both know that is not enough any more. That big brother and his billionaire friends get what they want far too often at the expense of our rights and freedoms.

If and when it happens I would dance naked in the streets...But I just cannot allow myself to believe that they will win...

Much like the Soldier that refused to fight in Iraq because he said the  war was illegal

The military judge sidestepped his objection and found him guilty... Saying something to the efect that it was not upto him to determine whether or not it was illegal...

When we all know that the geneva convention is being violated with the war...That if brough to trial in the world court the military action would be a violation of international law....

The Judge said that this was a political issue and the charges brought against the soldier were a criminal issue...What a crock of Baloney!!!!!!!!

He just sidestepped the issue

I hope the soldier appeals and wins...That judge needs to be hung by his testicles

as do many judges...but I have little hope left in me that the small guy who shields himself in the law will be protected

One of the problems with the majority of the people in our country is that [highlight]they don't know the laws[/highlight] - my hope is that, in putting the info out, more people will stand up - it's just like what Glenn has often said - ya gotta know the laws & regulations in order to stand up to a lot of the bullies who want to play a power trip on you.

It may be too late, but I'm not going to give up without a fight & without telling others what's happening to our country.  Too many are too comfortable to fight the status quo... and that is what is leading to our nation's downfall - indifference & the "take care of me" attitude...   :-/  :'(

I guess I may get to know the inside of one of the internment camps they're preparing for "patriots" ...  :-/

It's sad that Lt. Watada can't go with his conscience in refusing to go back to Iraq - or the couple in New Hampshire, I think, who were asking the same question about the income tax "show me the law" &  refused to pay for 12 years... he is holed up in his house right now stating he will fight to the death, while she (a dentist) has surrendered & is looking at millions of $$$ in fines & back taxes, losing her business & going to prison.  If we think we are contributing to our nation's infrastructure when we pay taxes, think again - we are barely even making a dent on the interest we are paying the unconstitutional Federal Reserve, a private central bank...  :-/  that's where the IRS sends our taxes...
As trial goes on he hunkers down (http://unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=As%20trial%20goes%20on%2c%20he%20hunkers%20down&articleId=c1b55d17-dcb6-4e42-9f98-e174d02e66a4)

Anyway, I've tried to stay away from the political  :P but am really interested to see the outcome of the hearing between the United States Gov't & We The People...

Revelations on how we are guided.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2007/290107rockefellergoal.htm

Chalmers Johnson has a piece in tomdispatch in which he plugs all his books, especially the new one, Nemesis--not quite out yet.  But the piece is worth reading.

He talks empire and democracy, how they are not compatible, quoting Anatole Lieven (first quote).  His conclusion (2nd quote) is not particularly hopeful.

Although, unlike ancient Rome, the British empire did manage, in a kind of zig-zag way, to dismantle itself.

http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=160594

Quote"U.S. global power, as presently conceived by the overwhelming majority of the U.S. establishment, is unsustainable. . . The empire can no longer raise enough taxes or soldiers, it is increasingly indebted, and key vassal states are no longer reliable. . . The result is that the empire can no longer pay for enough of the professional troops it needs to fulfill its self-assumed imperial tasks."

QuoteSo my own hope is that -- if the American people do not find a way to choose democracy over empire -- at least our imperial venture will end not with a nuclear bang but a financial whimper. From the present vantage point, it certainly seems a daunting challenge for any President (or Congress) from either party even to begin the task of dismantling the military-industrial complex, ending the pall of "national security" secrecy and the "black budgets" that make public oversight of what our government does impossible, and bringing the president's secret army, the CIA, under democratic control. It's evident that Nemesis -- in Greek mythology the goddess of vengeance, the punisher of hubris and arrogance -- is already a visitor in our country, simply biding her time before she makes her presence known.

I finally got a copy of George Monbiot's Heat.  It's my not terribly pleasant bedtime reading.  But at least he's a bit more positive about that vision of the future.

Here's another article by Ron Paul...  living in a "free society"
Ron Paul's Texas Straight Talk - A weekly Column

Political Power and the Rule of Law

February 5,  2007

With the elections over and the 110th Congress settling in, the media have been reporting ad nauseam about who has assumed new political power in Washington.  We're subjected to breathless reports about emerging power brokers in Congress; how so-and-so is now the powerful chair of an important committee; how certain candidates are amassing power for the 2008 elections, and so on.   Nobody questions this use of the word "power," or considers its connotations. It's simply assumed, in Washington and the mainstream media, that political power is proper and inevitable.

The problem is that politicians are not supposed to have power over us-- we're supposed to be free.   We seem to have forgotten that freedom means the absence of government coercion.  So when politicians and the media celebrate political power, they really are celebrating the power of certain individuals to use coercive state force.

Remember that one's relationship with the state is never voluntary.   Every government edict, policy, regulation, court decision, and law ultimately is backed up by force, in the form of police, guns, and jails.  That is why political power must be fiercely constrained by the American people.

The desire for power over other human beings is not something to celebrate, but something to condemn!   The 20th century's worst tyrants were political figures, men who fanatically sought power over others through the apparatus of the state.   They wielded that power absolutely, without regard for the rule of law.

Our constitutional system, by contrast, was designed to restrain political power and place limits on the size and scope of government.   It is this system, the rule of law, which we should celebrate--not political victories.

Political power is not like the power possessed by those who otherwise obtain fame and fortune.   After all, even the wealthiest individual cannot force anyone to buy a particular good or service; even the most famous celebrities cannot force anyone to pay attention to them.   It is only when elites become politically connected that they begin to impose their views on all of us.

In a free society, government is restrained--and therefore political power is less important.   I believe the proper role for government in America is to provide national defense, a court system for civil disputes, a criminal justice system for acts of force and fraud, and little else.   In other words, the state as referee rather than an active participant in our society.

Those who hold political power, however, would lose their status in a society with truly limited government.   It simply would not matter much who occupied various political posts, since their ability to tax, spend, and regulate would be severely curtailed.  This is why champions of political power promote an activist government that involves itself in every area of our lives from cradle to grave.  They gain popular support by promising voters that government will take care of everyone, while the media shower them with praise for their bold vision.  
Political power is inherently dangerous in a free society: it threatens the rule of law, and thus threatens our fundamental freedoms.   Those who understand this should object whenever political power is glorified.

Also, look up the difference between a "democracy" and a "republic." The United States Constitution originally set out to form a "republic" which protects the rights of the individual rather than "democracy" which allows the 51% majority to rule & dictate to the 49%...  that's ok if you like what the "majority" represents... then, when you think about our elections today, only a minority even vote - yeh, I know, there's not much to choose from...  :P

Okay, I know this comment is small potatoes, but it's typical of a bunch of meddlesome do-gooders and the ire they cause me... TV news is on while I'm working here. There's a news story about some NYC politician who wants to pass some kind of a law against iPods because some stupid people have been killed when crossing the street while listening to their iPods. Well, bully! If you're that stupid let's let it happen so we can strengthen the gene pool.  

Survival of the fittest - natural selection - I've got no problem with that.  Hope I'm not de-selected too soon. :)

QuoteBenevolance - check this out...

We The People (http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2007-01-20.htm)

Quite an interesting topic. Thanks for your efforts.

Here's a site I follow: www.kunstler.com

IF he's more or less correct, in just a few years we won't worry much about the federal government.

Steve

Welcome to the forum, Steve.

Thanks, Glenn, I've been lurking, enjoying, and absorbing inspiration for quite awhile.

Welcome, Steve, I read a bit of the website you posted... he seems to be one of the radical tinhat conspiracy theorists, too!   ;)  Glad you enjoy the forum!  Lots of great people here  :) - even tho there are a few of us out on the fringes  ::)

Glad you came in from the cold.  Some of us have to face reality, eh?  :)

Poisoning the Roots of Freedom (http://www.newswithviews.com/Shaw/michael8.htm) so much for being able to build on your own property... especially with a helpful board of supervisors  :-/

I would be in jail....if i owned 75 acres and they did not let me build a home...I would find the guys in charge and start calling them at night...Toilet papering their houses...Maybe the windows would get beat out of their cars... well okay I am not into violence much....So put that one on hold....

But I would plan out something truly great, like pay off the local septic tank pump guy to dump several thousand gallons of raw sewage on their lawn at 3 am....On their cars....In their pools...Whatever it took....

He has a nice website and all....He needs to be burning flags or whatever he can do to get on National TV

there are a lot of americans that would side with him when you consider this is the land of the free he owns the land and cannot get building permits to build houses for his family on said land...

If this was on the nightly news I predict the outpouring of support for the guy would be overwhelming...

He has been fighting for 30 years...I would have 1 life sentence just about over...

Feeling free yet?



http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

Yuck!

But I do kind of wonder if we could have made the same analysis in the 60's, the twenties, the thirties, and probably back sometime in the 1870's or so.

In other words, does every country teeter on the edge of fascism most of the tiime?

Probably but we didn't have the issues with as many of the rights going down the tubes at that time. :(

The main difference in those times to now is the degee of control in the top ranks of the last two administrations by a single group of persons of the same race, the same faith and the same Neo-Con philosophy- this is the thing that amazes most non US folk, yet the majority sector of the US public doesn't seem to be aware of this to any degree.

That is what worries me about them.  That many hypocrites together can't be good for us or the world.  The greed, the lust for power and the promotion of the fascist state.

I expect the rest of the world will one day have to join together to stop the runaway train.  There is talk of counter coalitions forming and partnerships of other countries being forged quite often now.  They even have alliances in South America.

 Just read this on the "Homesteading Today" forum...  pretty scary
Let Me Tell You What Happened To US
We went to UAB (Birmingham) on Monday & Tuesday of this week for DH's medical checkups. He's a heart transplant recipient, five years out. We stayed in a Motel 6 overnight, just wanting an inexpensive place to lay our head for a few hours. We'd been out to eat, getting back to the room just about dark. We started making phone calls, checking our messages at home and calling our adult children. While on the phone, someone started banging on the door, talking in broken english and Spanish (I think). We figured it was someone drunk that had the wrong room, so we didn't open the door. A little while later, more banging on the door. This time a man's voice yelling to open the door or they were going to kick in the door. DH hung the phone up, went to the door asking who they were and what did they want. The voice said "Homewood, open the door right now or I'm kicking in the door". Both DH and I were repeatedly asking who they were and what did they want. Again he identified himself as "Homewood". He said "a 911 call was placed from this room to the front desk (?), and I mean, open the door right now". I got up my nerve to crack the curtain at this point and there stood one of the police officers, therefore, we immediately opened the door. They came barging in and yelling wanting to know what was going on in there. I told them evidently they had the wrong room. They asked if we'd been arguing (which we hadn't), still trying to make us criminals. I told them DH was a heart transplant recipient and we were just there overnight seeing his Drs. at UAB. They were still yelling about when they (police) say to open a door we'd better be opening the door. DH reminded them they never identified themselves as police officers, only said "Homewood". I told them that Homewood means nothing to me, maybe it does to locals, but we were from out of town. DH asked for their names and wanted to see their ID, which they ignored. They demanded seeing DH's ID. They ran a check. DH hasn't even had a speeding ticket since 1974. They finally realized they couldn't arrest us for anything and started to walk off. I told them an apology would be nice and they kept walking. Now remember, they never identified themselves other than "Homewood" (meaning Homewood Police Dept), and never apologized. Needless to say, we were so upset we didn't get any sleep. I couldn't wait to get back to my home in the woods. We plan to write letters to the Chief of Police of Homewood and the home office of Motel 6.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=232999

Ahhhh....Let Freedom Ring

http://dcist.com/2008/06/04/mpd_to_seal_off.php

These tactics have been used successfully in other places.

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Editorial-Page.htm?InfoNo=023878

http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer46.html

http://www.lookingglassnews.org/printerfriendly.php?storyid=674

Warrantless Cell Phone tracking contested.

There are already legal methods to do it.  It's just that this administration feels it is above the law.  The founding fathers already drew the line.

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/DOJ-Sued-Over-Cell-Phone-Tracking-Practices/?kc=EWKNLNAV070308STR1

Bush wiretapping illegal.

http://www.truthout.org/article/judge-rejects-bushs-view-wiretaps

That's why he wants to pass laws to make it unillegal. Why break the law when you can change it to suit your needs?

He's been trying that and succeeding most of the time with presidential signing orders -- now if he'd only been elected president to go along with all of  that power. hmm

Here's the thing Glenn...he doesn't have any real power.

Seems he still has his hand on the tiller, steering the boat toward the rocks though.