16x16 camp

[outsider]

Help  

[dug]

I'm confused by the question. The poll is throwing me.   

[Rover]

I don't see the advantage of 4x4s.  Most 4x4 wood that is readily available is pressure treated which is a no-no indoors.  I went with 2x4s at 24" oc which isn't too wide for some sheathing. 

[MountainDon]

I think there's something misworded, maybe a typo, in the question/poll.   

outsider, if you mean to actually use 4x4, is the reason that you already have a supply for free? Or did you mean to ask about using 2x4's or 2x6's in the walls?  And what's that about 6x6's? 


If you have free 4x4's, sure go ahead; but if they are PT then as Rover pointed out it would be a bad idea for an enclosed living space.

[outsider]

Thank you guys,im just learning this computer thing. i dont know what the poll is about?? But i want to build a 16x16 camp,post n beam and did not know what safe spacing would be besides 16"os and24"os I have never done this,but sure i can do it. and far as the poll couldnt post anything without filing that in SORY. so ?being should i use 4x4's or 6x6 ?? Again sory for the confusion

[rocking23nf]

4x4 or 6x6 for what? the posts holding the structure up?

I like to overbuild, and a 6x6 is my choice.


I would go 6x6 post with 4 posts per beam, a triple 2x10 beam, with 3 beams and 2 x 10 joists hung on joist hangers.
Then 2x6 wall studs.

[DirtyLittleSecret]

I'm still trying to figure out what's being asked...

[MountainDon]

I figure 'outsider' wants to know if 4x4's or 6x6's would be better suited for building the framework for his post and beam 16 x 16 foot camp.

I'd like to counter with a question as to why post and beam? Nothing wrong with wanting to do post and beam, I'm just curious. Stick built like many of us do is quicker and likely cheaper, although I do not have data to back that up. It's just a feeling I have. I also believe stick built requires less skill, not that skills can not be learned along the way.

I guess I just like to know why something is being done. My curiosity has got me in trouble before so I apologize in advance.

As for the poll at the beginning let's just ignore it for now and chalk it up to getting familair with the forum software. That works for me.

A few more details might help as well; one story only, loft, no loft, roof type, snow country or not, and stuff like that.

[outsider]

YES Mountain Don just IGNORE THE POLL. My skill level is medium,it will be a learning as i go project. I dont want a 2x4 frame or a 2x6 frame.I want to use 4x4s or 6x6s to frame the whole thing. I dont know how far apart i can space them and have a strong frame.i know 2x4s are 16"oc.Can i do 48"oc with 4x4s or more? and same ? with 6x6s. Thair will be NO 2nd floor or a loft just a flat roof high enough on one end for rain run off, maybe 18"-24" i know thats more than enough. The only thing i want to use 2x4s for is windows,sheathing and a door.And yes i have to account for a good snow load??? never really know here(white mountains nh) No need to apologize, my curiosity confuses the hell out of pepoel or get me in trouble, but i wont know if i dont ask   THANKS AGAIN

[rocking23nf]

unless your getting this wood for free, I would strongly recommend to sit down, and rethink this. 4x4 and 6x6 wood is wayyyyyyyyyyyy more expensive then 2x6 studs

Its also heavier, harder to nail, harder to cut. I would also even argue that it warps more then 2x6 wood.

[MountainDon]

I asked "why" hoping for a reply that expanded on the reason. I know many folks love the appearance of post and beam construction. Some like Whitlock, also love the precision work that goes into the joinery. Some, like myself, love the appearance but do not want to expend the time and effort necessary to carry off a project like that.

At least when I hear post and beam what I think of is something like Whitlock's cabin.  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=5331.0   If this is what you have in mind a forum search on "post and beam or timber frame" will bring up other like projects. All of them have a lot of time and materials involved. I just have to mention that to be clear about what is being sought here.

I'm sorry but I can't help with the engineering aspects of what sizes of timbers to use.

[dug]

You can space them further (not sure how much) but then you are building a timber frame structure which a whole different deal and out of my realm. I know you would also need horizontal members also, as well as 45 degree bracing.

On a standard stick frame the close spacing of the studs and sheathing provide incredible lateral bracing for the walls. On a timber frame, or post and beam you have to accommodate for this in different ways.

[outsider]

Appearance in side the camp was the reason for beam construction,But i see now it's wayy to much $$$$$$$$ and time. So i will go with 2x4 walls,2x8 floor joist,2x6 roof rafters.?? as for appearance go's i can make it look the way i want useing false beam's or small log's i cut. I would like a very solid foundation i think concreate peirs is the way to go?? not sure. THANKS EVERY ONE. this has been a big help to me. oh yea the reason i want to do this,well so i can say i did,and live in it.     

[rocking23nf]

I would rethink the 2x4 walls if your in a colder area. a 2x6 costs around 1 dollar more then a 2x4. thats a cost of probably 100 bucks on the framing of the house
then you need 2x6 insulation which is gonna run you 4 extra bundles of r20, around 200 bucks.

And a 2x10 PT floor joist compared to 2x8 is around 4 bucks more. So less then 100 bucks.

so for 400 bucks or less, this is canada pricing, you get a warmer more insulated cabin, stronger walls, and stronger floor.

[MountainDon]

Re: materials sizes.  

Walls: For anywhere that does not have a constant mid seventies temperature or will be seldom used 2x4 walls are passé. That's my opinion and in some places covered by zoning or energy codes, the law. As rocking pointed out the materials difference between 2x4 and 2x6 is small.


Floor: 2x8's are likely too small when building for normal floor loads. The joist sizing depends on species and grade of lumber as well as the expected live and dead loading (pounds per sq. ft, 40 live, 10 dead is 'normal') and the spacing of the joists. It is also dependent on the span, which is measured from the inside of the joist support. That is if the building was 16 feet wide and the joists were supported at each end on a 6x12 beam (actually 5 1/2 inches wide), the joist span is 16'0" minus 5 1/2" minus 5 1/2" = 15'1".   From the calculator 2x10 Hem-Fir #2 on 16" centers will be good up to 15'2" span. That's kind of pushing it to the max.

There is an online calculator at http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/calc/timbercalcstyle.asp  There are also many printed charts available.


Rafters: Rafter span is measured like joist span, so a cabin measuring 16'0" on the outside framing would have a span of 15'1" with 2x6 walls. IF the roof is peaked like a normal gable roof the rafter span is one half that. If the roof was flat then the span is 15'1" in this example. Define flat as not peaked, it could be sloped for drainage but for the sake of lumber size it is flat. That's called a shed roof.

The same calculator can be used for rafters. Snow load should be taken into account. The calculator indicates 2x6 Hem-Fir #2 on 24" centers would be good to 10' (20 lbs snow load). That means 2x6 would not work for a shed roof but could be okay for a gable, peaked, roof.


Ceiling Joists: Again, the calculator can be used for ceiling joists. Design loads vary by how the upper space will be used; storage, no storage, sleeping loft, etc.


IF you build the roof and ceiling as a cathedral style the rafters then become the place where the roof/ceiling insulation is installed. 2x6 rafters are not going to provide sufficient space for insulation like fiberglass batts. For that reason rafters are frequently over sized by considerable amounts. Same thinking applies if you build a shed roof. In that case the rafters are usually the ceiling joists and need to be sized for insulation as well as load.


Lots of details to plan out before buying any materials.

[John Raabe]

Outsider:

It could help to do a plan and cross section sketch of the shed or camp building. (I assume you have no plans at this point.) Those are the minimum drawings you need to build from.

One of the other considerations is the foundation. Not sure if that was mentioned.

[rocking23nf]

Don, off topic. But my trusses for my 12x12 were built with 2x4s which suprised me, I assumed they would be 2x6. They came from a reputable truss company so I assume everything is legit.

[MountainDon]

All the trusses I've seen are 2x4 material, even fairly large spans. It's the engineering behind them that make them strong in the direction required. I believe they use MSR graded lumber; machine stress rated, not visual grading.