Energy Crunch Let's Talk Home Heating

[Dilly]

Hi Gang,
With the energy costs going through the roof and the cost of Geo Thermal systems prohibitive what is the best way to go? What are the collective thoughts on what type of heating system we should look at installing in a new home? What type of system would be the most cost effective in the long run? The plan I am going with is a 2 story universal. I would really be interested in everyones input on this topic. I am in a forest setting so wind isn't an option.
Thanks Dilly

[glenn kangiser]

Considering the economy is going to suck for quite a while and - electricity, much of it created by burning oil, coal or fossil fuels controlled by big business, who only want your last dollar, the only thing that makes sense is something they do not control but you can control --wood- plain old wood - not pellets, corn cobs, dried manure (loaves of it have been successfully made),  if you are in an area where it is easily available.  Good solar use, insulation etc. should also be in your planning per John's recommendations. 

What I am saying is things industry does not control - depends on where you are.

If you are under fascist state mandate to use a big industry controlled, elite profit producing system, at least make one of the above a second choice to be used when you have no more money to support the elite.

As PEG says, Depends -- on your situation -- plan for the worst to survive though.

[MountainDon]

The answer to your question begins with the structure itself; well sealed, well insulated, best windows (low-e), design considerations regarding winter passive solar gains and summer solar shading, etc.

Then the fuel choice.  As Glenn said non processed wood may be great for some. We all don't have it standing waiting for us on our own land though. Are the costs of hauling any distance or buying it from anyone else going to be better than the other choices; natural gas, propane, electric?

[muldoon]

I would also consider solar thermosiphon technique.  Both Home Power and Mother Earth news had ran this article with how one person did it for $350.  It looks like the type of thing that could be done in a weekend and continue to be useful for as long as you used the space. 

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/SolarBarn.pdf

Even something as simple as the solar heat grabber from the 70s could be useful:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/1977-09-01/Mothers-Heat-Grabber.aspx

It's the same with any "alternative energy" spending money on improving effieciency and lowering demand will go further than buying something commercially.  After you have reduced your needs by adding good insulation, windows, and such then the alternative methods can do a good job of meeting the reduced demand.  By itself, its no match for the potential energy contained within a gallon of heating oil/diesel. 

[NM_Shooter]

For heating, solar hot air collectors work great.  A friend of mine has one on his house, and the outlet air is uncomfortably warm to have blow on you. 

[MountainDon]

Yep, we have one too from the early 80's. Works well; it can make the house warmer than you want at times. No real heat storage though other than the normal interior house mass; but it's better than nothing. The house wasn't designed with solar mass in mind. 

[NM_Shooter]

Don... is yours convective, or does it use a fan on a thermo switch?

[MountainDon]

Fan with thermo switch and a wall thermostat to set on-off temp. I've thought of replacing the AC motor fan with a DC unit and it's own small solar panel; but that's all I've done. Reminds me that I need to replace the glazing panel; it's an FRP panel and the gel coat has disappeared and there's glass fibers standing free on the surface.

[NM_Shooter]

What size is it?  I have a glass panel that came off of a solar box  that I am not using.  I think it is about 3'X5'

[MountainDon]

4 ft x 10 ft   

I really need to replace the glazing as I know the output has dropped... it's yellowed a lot. Probably dirty inside too for all I know.

[CREATIVE1]

For my home, in a fairly mild climate with winter lows about 22 degrees but no winter sun to speak of, I've decided to go with radiant cove heaters, ten of them independently controlled, and a central wood stove with an exposed pipe to the ceiling and a stone floor and wall behind it going to the 22 foot peak (Victoria Cottage) to hopefully increase heat storage. We'll install floor and wall registers and a ceiling fan upstairs to increase heat circulation. I'm also going with passive solar design, with large south facing windows. 

[Dilly]

Creative one have you any pictures of how you did this?

[CREATIVE1]

Creative one have you any pictures of how you did this?

Not yet, we're still in the permitting stage.  But I can try to post a link to the cove heater site and paste a copy of the downstairs floor plan so you can see the location of the stove.  Will do that tomorrow.

[CREATIVE1]

Here's the link for the radiant cove heaters (installed near the ceiling)  For ten units, the cost not including shipping is about $1,600.  That includes a thermostat for each unit.  They can be wired 110 or 220.  Other quotes for similar cove units were about $5,000 more.

http://www.radiantsystemsinc.com/

Radiant heat is a whole different animal.  There are some cool websites that explain this--and maybe some other posts on Countryplans?

[BassLakeBuda]

Thanks for the info on the radiant heaters! I have been searching for an alternative to baseboards as having a small cabin (15 X 18) there is no empty wall space. Past few years we have started using the cabin two or three times in the winter. Current heat source is to turn on the baking oven and leave the door slightly open. This has worked well but we are wanting something safer and more permanent. Mounting the units near the ceiling will work.

I don't like to use electricity to heat but it is the most flexible for the occasional winter use.

[pagan]

The problem I've heard with passive solar houses is the inability of the house to store enough heat to make it through more than a day or two with no sun. This makes passive solar virtually useless where I live as we can go weeks with little or no sun. For this reason I've been investigating ways to store as much heat as possible through the summer and have that available in the winter. I've read about people who have huge tanks of water in their basements that they run through solar collectors when it's sunny, and then run this hot water through base board heaters.

I've been seriously looking at PAHS (passive annual heat storage) and AGS (annualized geo solar) methods. Although these designs use earth bermed or underground construction, I've been thinking you could do the same thing for a regular house.

You could construct your thermal storage area near the house and then, when it's sunny, circulate hot glycol through solar collectors and into your storage mass. You would then have another set of lines that would circulate through the storage mass and then into the house. Sounds complicated, but I think it can be done.

[Billisnice]

If you have a house designed like on http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Homes/How-To-Build-A-House.aspx

Where the three windows are at the top block off the area behind the windows and line with 1/2 black tile to capture heat in the winter someway to create a heat sink and move the hot air in the house.

just my thoughts.