Garage Ideas

Started by NathanS, January 23, 2020, 12:40:45 PM

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NathanS

Quote from: Don_P on April 29, 2022, 09:51:30 PMHaving just poured 2 and staring at a third, get the power trowel! My arms were screaming after the first one. I sent everyone home after placing and did the second myself with the power trowel. Yes if he is close and sawing, and can do 22', get him to make a nice straight screed and go full width. You will need a couple of guys with rakes tending that long screed, that's 4 minimum. Rent a bull float as well and used it immediately behind the screed then get off it till the bleed water evaporates and it can take the power trowel.

I was using some poplar framing we sawed today. With plywood prices we're doing diagonal board sheathing. Basically higher grades, if not siding or trim, down to #2 is framing. If a log opens up ugly we start sawing 1x sheathing. A roof allows a minimum of #3 sheathing, a wall can use as low as #4. We tend to be more like a grade above each category and #4 is kindling but that gives an idea of a potential log sort and uses.

You bring up a good point. A prescriptive foundation is based on frost heave potential, as is a frost protected. If someone is in a gravel pit or obvious no frost heave potential, depending on frost depth locally, it may be worth having a geotech look at it in terms of a shallower foundation.

Thanks for the tips, Don. For now I'm still planning to do the walls in OSB. I'm going to do purlins for the roof, and for the gable I am going to get the felt membrane on the underside. For the lean-tos I will just let the condensation happen.

Started grading the downhill side today and hydrostatic transmissions are so nice for this kind of work. Hoping I can leave the old shed where it is until the garage is enclosed and I can move everything over there.

Getting one more load of round stone tomorrow to bring the pad up another 4" and then I will be ready to start forming things up.

Ernest T. Bass

Quote from: Don_P on April 29, 2022, 09:51:30 PMI was using some poplar framing we sawed today. With plywood prices we're doing diagonal board sheathing. Basically higher grades, if not siding or trim, down to #2 is framing. If a log opens up ugly we start sawing 1x sheathing. A roof allows a minimum of #3 sheathing, a wall can use as low as #4. We tend to be more like a grade above each category and #4 is kindling but that gives an idea of a potential log sort and uses.

I've been wondering how many builders are going back to roughsawn board sheathing until lumber prices start to behave. When you say poplar, are you referring to something similar to Aspen? I kinda want to build a barndo, so kicking around the idea of getting a sawmill. We've got over 100 acres of trees, but they're mainly Aspen under 12'' diameter.

Our family's homestead adventure blog; sharing the goodness and fun!


NathanS

Don
Quote from: Ernest T. Bass on May 15, 2022, 04:18:25 PMI've been wondering how many builders are going back to roughsawn board sheathing until lumber prices start to behave. When you say poplar, are you referring to something similar to Aspen? I kinda want to build a barndo, so kicking around the idea of getting a sawmill. We've got over 100 acres of trees, but they're mainly Aspen under 12'' diameter.

Don is talking about Tulip Poplar, one of the most enormous and fast growing hardwoods on the east coast. Unfortunately in my area of New York there aren't many of them.

NathanS

Got the slab in! The weather forecast was pretty terrible going into it, but the day before it finally switched to give us until 12-1 PM. We started pouring around 8. The concrete trucks have the shoot on the front and the drivers made it really easy on us. We screeded the whole 20' at once — that is absolutely the way to go for us non-pros.

The concrete guys are also pretty short staffed so they were about a week out, and I was able to get a lot of rough grading done. The slab is on round stone all the way down to hardpan. Around the slab is where I used uphill material to fill and bring up to grade. I expect it will settle several inches over the next few years. This job has already paid for the backhoe attachment.



The remesh was left over from the house, glad to use it up at current prices. Bent the rebar on a steel tube on the tractor loader.





Bull floated here



Then I let it set up until I could put my finger about 3/8 - 1/2 inch and mag troweled the whole surface. I was basically a little early at the start and a little late at the end. Then right away I started steel troweling, again a little early at the start and by the last 50-100 sq/ft I was late, and man that last bit really killed me. If I had time and energy I would have done a second pass, but honestly it came out really good. It's smooth but not so smooth that if it's wet it will be like an ice rink.




Don_P

Your hired! Looks good. The saying here at about that point "well, all we lack is finishing". Orchard in the background?

Aspen would be fine, most of the osb sheathing we used up north was aspen chips. It does have design values published for structural use for framing as well. I've used more white pine for sheathing than poplar, just running with what we had, the framing is all tulip poplar, liriodendron tulipifera. With the demise of chestnut, it is the largest eastern tree. The old rafters we pulled were chestnut 2x4's, I've saved them, hopefully for a table or something. This farm adjoins the state forest where there are trial chestnut plantings and crosses going on. I noticed several new rows the other day, that means another generation of backcrosses is being tried.  With the board sheathing it is a stout feeling frame. Code stuff, min #3 on the roof, #4 on walls, it doesn't need to be high grade stock...although #4 is bonfire stuff here, I'm not buying in material so can "waste" a bit more. Oh yeah, pick up more nails on the way, more shots.




NathanS

The orchard in the background is Chinese Chestnut, Don. I have another few hundred in air prune beds and pots to plant in other areas as well. It is totally just a fun experiment, but if successful a few acres could provide a decent, relatively low labor, retirement income some day.

The history of the American Chestnut is quite a tragedy. I was a part of the American Chestnut foundation for a few years and the last I read on the back cross program, it's not sounding too good. It's looking like they need 12-14 genes for blight resistance instead of the hoped for 2-3. And while the transgenic wheat gene tree appears to be the real deal, it will be in for a long approval process, if it ever happens.


Don_P

Have you run across Badgersett (sp?) nursery? He was in with the ACF early but his goal was more towards the nuts rather than the timber. I met him 5... ish years ago while he was travelling through. He claimed he was getting good american nut production. I think it was him... hazelnuts are another neat nut crop.

NathanS

I think his nursery has been closed for several years now. I did try to get seeds from him as he was one of the northernmost growers. My seeds mainly came from Route 9 Chestnut Cooperative in Ohio and the University of Missouri's chestnut orchard.

My Hazel's may be from Badgersett via Red Fern Farm. Some people not too far from me have started processing Hazelnuts into oil.

With doing the garage this year I am definitely not going to have time to expand the orchards into our other field this year. I am just trying to maintain and replace anything that died. I also planted a long strip of Persimmon trees along the road.

NathanS

Also, since it's raining today, I am wondering if anyone has thoughts or ideas for garage/workshop doors.

Standard garage doors are 7' tall — too short for my tractor roll bar and I don't like the idea that I'm a building 10' ceiling that will have those metal track rails down at 8'. Last thing, the standard doors mostly look like they are on back order until 2023 and I'm obviously not waiting that long.

I was thinking of just doing sliding barn doors around 10' x 10'. Only thing I'm worried about there is if snow and ice blocks the bottom of the door from sliding in the winter. Similar concern if I did outswing doors. It looks like I could also adapt a motor to open and close the doors for when I use them.


jsahara24

The concrete work looks great! 

As for the sliding doors, I have them on my barn.  My issue is getting them sealed up to try to heat the building in the winter, along with snow/ice building up in the bottom rail.  I am looking to install a more typical garage door in the space that I heat so I can work in the winter with some level of comfort. 

I don't know much about garage doors, but they do make some that stay pretty tight to the ceiling, however I'm sure the cost goes up quickly assuming you can even get them!

Good luck...

NathanS

I was looking at an online retailer for a roll up door - though I dont like the look — the price seemed ok at $1000-2000 depending on options, then they threw another $2300 or so on for delivery! Insulating that style would also be an issue.

I definitely want to heat with a wood stove in the winter. Also dont want a critter free for all.

MountainDon

I can vouch for the shortage on garage doors. We ordered a replacement 5 section overhead, 16 ft wide x 9 ft tall door in early January of 2021. It was finally installed in late July of 2021. R18.8 insulation rating and I love it. Stays warm or cool much better than the old one which had some self added foam in the panels. The new one seals much better too. It is such an improvement I am thinking of installing some more solar panels and putting a mini split in there so I can heat or cool as needed.

I like the floor and the orchard to be.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

Ernest T. Bass

Just got the garage door installed on a pole barn I built last fall.. took most of the winter to get it. It's an 8' door with a standard track, and I was able to install w/ 9' sidewalls. Tight fit.. only a couple inches to the truss, and no garage door opener.

Our family's homestead adventure blog; sharing the goodness and fun!

NathanS

I'm going to have to call around to see what kind of wait times I'm looking at.

I need to commit to the width as the block for my 2' stemwalls is getting here today. I am thinking 10-12' wide by 9' tall. I didn't realize they could be rated as high as R19, that is crazy.

I may insulate the stemwalls eventually, but opted not to insulate under the slab. It can be hard to decide where to draw the line when building - you can always do more. I figured the wood stove will fight the slab either way, and to just get a big stove with air tubes that can really push out BTUs fast. The days in the winter where I will have time to be in there all day are few and far between. Mainly will be a few hours here and there.


NathanS

Looks like the wait times aren't as bad as I thought. They are back down to around 15 weeks, which seems way more reasonable than 2023. We decided to do 12 wide by 9 high. This way each side of the door gets a full width sheet of OSB for bracing.

Another thing I'm planning after the block is digging out for the piers on the lean-to. I really want to keep the posts up out of the ground, so it looks like either trench form or slice a 16" sonotube to 8" thickness, pour that with a stick of bent rebar to tie into a 12" sonotube to grade.

I think it is what it is, but it looks like the standard post bracket that goes with an anchor bolt is like $22. Almost as much as the PT post.



NathanS

Making progress a lot faster than I did on the house.

I'm getting my money's worth out of this tractor. Digging in hardpan to get the pier footings poured took a whole day. At times I sheared through rock when it was embedded in the side wall of the hole. The backhoe has really proved itself as a tough piece of machinery.



Using pallet forks to lift the wood walls onto the 2' block stemwalls.



Same trick I used for the house - I made jigs to hold the ridge board in place and then installed the rafters. Safe and easy work alone.




Now I am getting ready to build the lean-tos. I have a couple questions I'm hoping people can answer about bracing.

Posts are going to sit on Simpson brackets that stand them 1" off the piers and are attached with an anchor bolt. Then the posts will be apx 7.5' tall with a 3x12 notch set into them for the beams I had my neighbor mill for me. They will be attached either with 1/2" through bolts or Thrulok's.

My understanding is that because the garage wall is braced I technically don't need any lateral bracing between the post and beam as the roof diaphragm ties everything together. However, the AWC does have a deck guide - the closest thing to a code guide for a porch roof - and it calls for bracing the corner posts and specifically excludes bracing the middle posts.

https://awc.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/AWC-DCA62012-DeckGuide-1405.pdf

Somewhat related question about roofing. I am installing metal panels over 2x4 2' OC purlins. I am guessing 2 or 3 10d nails should be adequate to connect purlin to rafter? Code defers to manufacturer, and manufacturer doesn't say anything other than the roof is designed to go over purlins. For the gable roof I got "drip stop" material to control condensation. Really looking forward to not sliding around on 8-12 sheathing.

Last thing - do I need to brace the ceiling on the interior part of the garage? This would have to be done on underside, as rafters prevent me from connecting OSB to the wall.

Don_P

"Load goes to stiffness". Is the semi rigid plane of metal screwed to purlins stiffer than several short diagonals bolted to the midpoint of a flexible post? My bet is the angle braces do not see load until the roof is gone.  

2 nails per bearing should be adequate, uplift is the greater issue, maintain a good load path of uplift connections. A catwalk in the attic or an attic floor, or a ceiling, or diagonal framing on top of the cjs at each corner would all help brace the end walls to the structure

NathanS

Thanks for the insight Don.

One thing I've noticed with Hemlock is it really takes a nail. Toenailing SYP sometimes seems to do more harm than good.

Don_P

Cordless drills have really been a game changer for me and tough to nail woods. More and more as lumber prices rise I'm using native stuff that either likes to split or will not accept a nail without bending. I predrill a lot of stuff.