Peak Oil - energy concerns & options

Started by John Raabe, March 30, 2005, 03:08:36 PM

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John Raabe

This site has some charts worth thinking about...

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/




None of us are as smart as all of us.

ebass

Hi John:

   Yes.......the charts are thought provoking.......oil effects the prices of........ everything.

   ebass


John Raabe

#2
An interesting realization is for all our experimentation with renewable and alternative power sources, nobody yet has been able to build such things as PV solar panels using all PV generated power.

The alternative power industry itself depends on dead dinosaurs. As does everything else including the food supply.
None of us are as smart as all of us.

ebass

 John:

  If an extremely efficient PV panel were to be manufactured and used in the manner which you've described, I wouldn't be suprised to see that technology marketed for maximum profit, in a piecemeal style similar to what computer manufacturers do......

   Regarding dead dinosaurs, let's face it.......
our society, has grown up on, and remains addicted to oil.....how many of us will voluntarily give up our cars?
  How I wish there were cheap, simple, painless solutions to the issues you raise..........

ebass  

Amanda_931

One of the reasons I keep hoping people will look at Tony Wrench's How to Build a Low-Impact Round House (can also read Christopher Day) is that he--and some other British (Welch?) authors seem to be thinking about low impact as a way of life.

Hey, I joke about "10 miles for a cup of (bad) coffee."  Actually it's about 7, round trip, unless that little store isn't open, which it often isn't.

I'm not walking the walk.


John Raabe

Unless you want to be either a mystic or a hermit you have to swim in the waters you find yourself in.

None of us are walking our talk. I use and waste energy that I know I could do without. Modern life will adjust, but only when it has to. In the mean time we can all just put on a happy face  ;D and enjoy the bounty we have been given.

Anything else is too depressing.
None of us are as smart as all of us.

Amanda_931

Absolutely, John.  It's why oil use has actually gone up since gas prices nationwide passed $2.05 for regular.

In the last week and a half I've been to Memphis once, Jackson twice, and Nashville once.  Although one of the Jackson visits was coming back from Memphis when I'd gone a different way.  

The quilts of Gees Bend exhibit in Memphis was pretty wonderful, though.

the Nashville trip was very nearly a total waste, though.


Leo

Many of us geezers remember the gas lines of the early 70s and are suprised prices havent been worse.The November ?04 national geographic article on oil was informative.  It is prudent to minimize personal consumtion of oil and a good habit to be getting into.

glenn kangiser

#8
Worse than some of this, is that I read somewhere that the rising price is not due to the cost of oil going up - it is due to the decline of the dollar.

You can only print so much play money before people want more to pay for the same thing. ;D

John brings up an interesting point-- my propane ran out yesterday- what do I do - finish the wood gas generator - start a methane digester - use renewable resources???

No - I grab the phone and call the propane truck-- I am so ashamed that I am so irresponsible  - unfortunately - not. :-[
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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markbrown

my 13 year old son and I have been seperating water into Hydrogen and oxygen using a small photo volt sun pannel.  I have a way to compress it and get it into a tank, propane cylinder.  Does it make any sense to feeed this into the air intake of the car motor?  I would expect a little more power.

I have an old 4 cylinder engine out in the shed for a test run.  So it would be gasoline, air, and hydrogen and oxygen.

Amanda_931

Only if your air intake is too big?

(same as putting too big a jet in the carbs)

glenn kangiser

#11
I would play with it with a small engine first- check the problems with hydrogen before you use it on a good engine.  I have only studied a little about using it.  If you are making it from water instead of fossil fuel, at least you are ahead of the oil industry. ;D

Please keep us posted on whatever you are willing to share regarding your experiments.  Be careful :)

As Amanda says, fuel air mix is already ideal on a running engine so if you add more fuel you need more air.  Ideally you would find a way to run with a hydrogen/air mix.  Wood gas generator uses a home made manifold- 2 pipes with independent butterflys so you can adjust fuel/air independently.  Could go through your other carburetor- start on gas- have a shutoff on gas line then switch to hydrogen with gas off and carburetor open - regulate then with homemade manifold and experiment with proper fuel air mix.  Hydrogen can cause embrittlement in metal.  Don't know the extent if you are burning it.  Where's a girl learn about this stuff Amanda ???
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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DavidLeBlanc

#12
One way to conserve and support the probable future of agriculture is to seek out and patronize local farmers who are using sustainable agriculture.  Food that's locally produced and without petrochemical fertilizers/pesticides and fuel are bound to be cheaper - or at least a lot better for you! Besides which, they'll be the only game in town when we can no longer afford to have fresh produce air-freighted in from S. America every night!

Have a look at http://www.brokenlimbs.org/index.html

glenn kangiser

We have a thing called slo-food dinners to counteract fast food-- definitely much better.  They do them as a benefit for the local public cinema.  The boss lady said the difference is from something like $.09 to the farmer to about $.90 per dollar going to the farmer if you buy direct besides being able to get the good tasting non-
GM food.

Every one needs to start their own garden too.  Even if in a pot in the apartment.  My daughter-in-law was here the other day.  She had never seen a carrot be pulled from the ground to eat.  Wait until I tell her that milk doesn't come from cartons! :o
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

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Amanda_931

I was going to say something evil about milk not coming in cartons, but then I remembered that I loathed the Ayrshire (think brown and white Holsteins, now very rare) milk we used to get, pasteurized but not homogenized, from a local dairy.  I liked to say hello to the cows when we went by.  Blue milk is worse than carton milk.  

Hanger on at a few friends' garages, taught mechanics for the clueless for the YWCA a couple of times, and after that I was a parts person at the local import parts place for a couple of years.

To answer that question.

Leo

 trying to convince owners of major fuel guzzling power boats that those days are  all but gone is to stare straight in the face of denial .much of my adult life has been spent on boat design and construction,the power boats after the turn of the last century were quite efficent by todays standards.I think design there will go full circle.  I had told myself I would go back to boatbuilding when fuel hit the roof as this would create opportunity. As one chapter ends others will begin.

glenn kangiser

For power backup I'm running a Marine 3500 watt generator with a single cylinder Volvo MD5A water cooled diesel.  Hot water goes to radiant heat tubes in cabin adobe floor.

It was also used as an efficient boat power plant - probably won't satisfy the horsepower lovers, but in a pinch would probably run on vegetable oil.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

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Leo

 Glenn Im suprised you havent put an oven on the exhaust manifold to bake lunch. That engine will serve You well. As a society we are energy gluttons for sure, I dont bother preaching it as prices will eventually catch the herds attention.Lake cumberland where we are building our cabin has houseboats 85 feet long by 18 foot wide, one with a helicopter and untold numbers of big cubic inch speed boats, cruisers etc.90% of there owners goals could be met by something much more efficent ,as it really dosent take much energy to move mass through water.

glenn kangiser

The oven on the engine exhaust trick I used to do with a welder- nice hot meals.  Then later as we "advanced" the old exhaust oven gave way to a microwave in the truck tool box.  Now I'm too lazy to carry food and settle for a half upset stomach and occasional food poisoning at the fast food joints in the big cities when I have to go there to work. ;D
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

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Leo

Glen I here you I can toast a sandwich with a rose bud.The price of oil will affect everything but There will be opportunity created in solutions


vojacek

know this is off topic, but thougt some of you purist would find this interesting. i have a 2yr  old girl who i wanted to switch to soy milk,  the peditricin was all for it, so i switched. i have a1 yr old little boy, i take him to a male ped. when it came time to stop nursing, i asked about the soy. he advised against it. large amounts of soy may surpress  testerone levels in children. besides, the studies aren't out yet on soy milk. he told me that although soy is organic, it is also syntheically processed. whole milk is still in it's natural state. but i have concerns about the antibodies and hormones. organic whole milk might be alright if it weren't  $5/half gallon. see the crap they throw at us new parents!!! my husband's solution....  to nurse longer, i say sure, if he wants to induce lactation himself!

vojacek

opps!! sorry for the previous misplaced message!!! i didn't  see page 2 and thought there was some dicussion about dairy still going. sorry to intrude with thoughts of lactation  :-[

glenn kangiser

#22
Since we were there once I don't see any reason to worry about the page number changing.  Lactation and the induction thereof, all part of building a happy country home.  As far as peak oil goes, if large corporate farms are unsustainable due to lack of or cost of oil we may all have to go back to the family cow or goat.  There -- we are back on the subject. ;D

I had one son who  was allergic even to mothers milk.  We used Similac but found out it was not well fortified with proper nutrients so he was short on calcium - weak bones, teeth, etc.   We found that goat milk would have been a better choice as many children with allergys won't reject it. :)  We found the following method to be the best and easiest way to manage handling the dispensation of lactation. ;D

"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Amanda_931

Don't forget Heidi by Johanna Spyri!

(Clara who was fed goat's milk one summer)

Some people not too far from us are starting to make goats cheese.

Freeholdfarm

I have goats, and chickens (and am getting ducks and geese) -- in large part because of concern about the future, and Peak Oil is a large part of that concern.  I really think that little houses are only part of the equation.  We need to all be learning to grow as much of our own food as possible, and it won't pay to wait until we have no choice.  There's a major learning curve to gardening and keeping livestock; there's soil to build; buildings to construct for housing the animals; feed to raise for the animals; equipment to obtain (now, while it's still fairly inexpensive); skills to learn in things like milk handling, cheesemaking, soapmaking, saving seeds, feeding the animals correctly so they don't die on you, and so on.  I've got a head start because I was raised on a farm, and have had dairy goats for most of the last twenty-two years, but even so I sometimes worry that there won't be enough time to get everything done that needs to be done.  

And to get this back on the topic of housing, we live with my grandmother in her new manufactured home -- no solar heat or hot water, no wood heat . . . . I have bought a hand pump for the well, and have a bike and cargo trailer for it.  But I do wish this house was designed and set up for living off the grid.

Kathleen, in Southern Oregon