CountryPlans Design/Build Forum

General => Owner-Builder Projects => Topic started by: CabinNick on June 01, 2015, 07:16:39 PM

Title: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on June 01, 2015, 07:16:39 PM
After many years of reading posts on this forum I am very excited to finally get to write a post of my own! 

I have been scouring the real estate websites daily for many years and finaly found the perfect property for our family. Last month we closed on 80 acres of forested property in NE Oregon surrounded by National Forest.  The property is primarily timbered with ponderosa pine and Douglas fir but has a small stream that winds through the property with some wet meadows and upland springs.  There is some cool history on the place with the remnants of an old sawmill that operated in the early 1900s. 

We have been up at the property most weekends learning the lay of the land, picking morels, spraying weeds and selecting a spot to build our cabin. 

We settled on a cabin location on a small hill top between two forks of the creek with views of the mountains in the distance.  Our hope is to work on putting in the road, culverts, septic test pits, ponds, permitting, design, etc over the next year or two and then start the cabin in a few years.  For now we have just set up a nice campsite. 

I would like to build the 20 x 30 1.5 story but will probably expand it a bit beyond 30'.  Looking forward to using everyone's experience on this forum to help along the way. 

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2Fcabin%2520site_zpsgllhqgia.jpg&hash=a3415f2dc4de978fd4d4329a8847a7fb9b1852bc) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/cabin%20site_zpsgllhqgia.jpg.html)

View of the mountains from the site we selected to build the cabin.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FMtns_zpsnihao7jz.jpg&hash=0376504dc634119d4b4dca2dca8ed8a630776684) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/Mtns_zpsnihao7jz.jpg.html)

This will be the view out our back door but we have quite a few trees to clear first.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FTyler_zpsycj2oiph.jpg&hash=0eabd3e11d13987294a87ef2fe3adb99e91caa63) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/Tyler_zpsycj2oiph.jpg.html)

The view looking out the front door.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2Fcabinsite_zpstcvavdnf.jpg&hash=eec440d2a7a0faec6e65887c1987a6f002482ec3) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/cabinsite_zpstcvavdnf.jpg.html)

Looking across the meadow toward the cabin site.  Cabin will be up the hill in the middle right of the photo.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2Fcamp%2520myatt_zpsujzwh9px.jpg&hash=de75143a36f8f1127f6642c8cfb2de78f2116f64) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/camp%20myatt_zpsujzwh9px.jpg.html)

The campsite we cleared and built over Memorial Day.  The cabin site is on top of the hill the background of the photo.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: rick91351 on June 01, 2015, 07:34:36 PM
 w* From your neighbors across the river in Idaho.  Eagle Caps? 

 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on June 01, 2015, 07:47:47 PM
Yes, those are the Eagle Caps.  Looking east from our property we can see the Seven Devils in Idaho. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on June 02, 2015, 01:17:19 AM
 w*  Nice piece of property.  Looks like you have able body helpers there.  Good Luck.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: rick91351 on June 02, 2015, 04:49:38 AM
Yes, those are the Eagle Caps.  Looking east from our property we can see the Seven Devils in Idaho.

Love that area of Oregon - have many many close friends from LaGrande and Hinkle (Hermiston).  One of the best vacations we ever took was a wild hair in the middle of winter on TV no radio cabin over at the Wallowa Lake Lodge....  We have traveled a lot - seen a lot.  But for some reason we both just loved that week.....
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: northwoodsrider on June 08, 2015, 07:21:34 PM
I'm jealous of your mountain views! Looks like a great spot.  That really expands your usable land being right up next to the public land.  Your own wilderness sanctuary!

Mark
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on July 29, 2015, 07:46:47 PM
It has been a busy summer of planning at the property.  I am trying to get all of our ducks in a row this year so next year we can build a pond, do some forest thinning, fence the cattle out of our property (open range around us), put the road into the cabin site, clear the cabin site and get our septic put in. 

It has been really cool checking our trail cameras and seeing the diversity of wildlife on the property.  Thought folks might like to see a few pictures from the last month:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2Fbear%2520cubIMG_0802_zps3x4skkv8.jpg&hash=dec1db2fd0f4eaf19ac9a167afb1a75514a3f849) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/bear%20cubIMG_0802_zps3x4skkv8.jpg.html)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FfawnsIMG_0109_zps4lqbokei.jpg&hash=c7af0070c3c0fb811a0806d44126d8a58d483299) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/fawnsIMG_0109_zps4lqbokei.jpg.html)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2Fturks_zpshofeeqgo.jpg&hash=f349c2b2d650e2bdaf9950030b6701c9b1383f34) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/turks_zpshofeeqgo.jpg.html)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2Fbull%2520elk%2520in%2520meadowIMG_1319_zpss2lrbatq.jpg&hash=4dfb730f7224b08fa4d78fed4221cbfe330ddc17) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/bull%20elk%20in%20meadowIMG_1319_zpss2lrbatq.jpg.html)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: pmichelsen on July 30, 2015, 05:45:13 AM
Great shots, I've been trying to capture some of the mom and cubs on our property but they've been fairly elusive.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: NathanS on July 30, 2015, 07:14:08 AM
Wow, what a beautiful property.

Are you hoping to full time there once the cabin is up, or will it be a vacation spot?
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: UK4X4 on July 30, 2015, 08:14:53 AM
I think you have enough fresh BBQ meat on site !
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on July 30, 2015, 05:25:42 PM
This will just be a weekend cabin and a working family forest that we harvest for firewood and lumber.  It is only about 34 miles from our house but it takes about 1 hour to get there.  We had a cabin that I frequented as a kid that was about 5 1/2 hours away.  After all those long trips, 1 hour seems like a great distance. 

The only downer right now is the amount of cows in our stream and wet meadows.  We are in the middle of a USFS grazing allotment.  The legal grazing in the pasture we are in does not start until Sept but we have had cows on us since June 6th.  Next year we hope to fence off about 24 of the 80 acres to keep the cows out of all of the springs, stream and meadow. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: MountainDon on July 31, 2015, 09:11:40 AM
Cool!!  Very nice game camera shots.  I like the one of the bear looking at the camera. Our elk photos always seem to have at least one staring right at the camera. Sometimes a big tongue ready to lick the camera.

Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on November 16, 2015, 04:12:27 PM
Last weekend we made our first "official" step towards building……a small step, but hey it is a step!   A good friend helped us dig the soil test pits for the septic system, so we will be able to start the permitting process first thing next spring. 

Good friends are great to have.  Good friends with backhoes are priceless! 

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_4128_zps5lalimxc.jpg&hash=5377f16ade3d0157b4a428ecb018459a875a7c05)[/URL]
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on February 03, 2016, 08:02:30 PM
I have been spending many hours each week sifting through the forum, planning projects, looking at budgets, etc. since we can't get into the property due to snow.  A while back I couldn't take it anymore and snowshoed the 5 mile roundtrip into our place. 

It was -4 but a beautiful day.  There was 36" of snow at the time but now there is over 50" of snow.  I went in there to take this picture.  This is will be the view from the picture window of the cabin.  I figure I can post the image all over our home to encourage us to save money for the cabin build!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FCabin%2520SiteHDR_zpsy0jebjrj.jpg&hash=5a103fe006f896a3df6c2da14cae8cf1ee15d237) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/Cabin%20SiteHDR_zpsy0jebjrj.jpg.html)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: MountainDon on February 03, 2016, 09:26:42 PM
 [cool]
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: midrover170 on February 04, 2016, 06:24:13 AM
That's just awesome. What a view.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: stices on February 09, 2016, 02:28:59 PM
You should have T. Axness paint that picture you took during the winter time so that you can hang it in the cabin when its done. That is a nice piece of land. There is fair chukar hunting near by.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on February 09, 2016, 05:42:28 PM
Yes, good chukar, quail and hungarian partridge hunting a short distance away out in the sagebrush grasslands.  Good ruffed grouse hunting right there.  We are fortunate to have some world class wing shooting in eastern Oregon. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: stices on February 09, 2016, 08:50:48 PM
It's kinda funny, I just happen to click on your post and started to realize that I too looked at that piece last spring. That is if I'm not puzzled about where your property is?

Did you grow up in the area?
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: OlJarhead on February 10, 2016, 08:53:37 AM
 [cool]
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Aerco on February 10, 2016, 05:39:01 PM
How was the permit process? I hear Oregon is expensive in that regard.  Any restrictions on what you can or can't build?  Was it expensive?  Any info would be appreciated.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on February 10, 2016, 09:18:12 PM
Yes, Oregon has some of the most restrictive land use planning laws in the country.  Luckily our property is buildable but most rural forested properties are not buildable unless they have >240 acres.  I am just starting looking into the permitting process but it looks like it is going to be several thousand for the permits.  Just the septic permit alone will be over $1,000. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: rick91351 on February 11, 2016, 06:42:16 AM
If I were shooting for one permit and watching them creep up both $$$ and restrictions I would do septic first.... or plan for an other type of toilet. Just in case they get more crazy.....   
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on May 06, 2016, 05:41:04 PM
This winter we purchased a used "Tiny Cabin" - basically a cabin built on a 24' trailer.  I did some renovations on it this winter and we were finally able to move it into the property this week.  This will be our base camp on the property until we can get the cabin built.  No More Tent Camping!!!! 

We also cleared our first regulatory hurdle this week towards building - the soils in our septic test pits were approved for a standard septic system.  :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_4822_zpsklqulcav.jpg&hash=8e88a329e2b1413f205956fc3b1e3ef0f86723d9) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_4822_zpsklqulcav.jpg.html)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_4827_zps4do9ugok.jpg&hash=b01f178d6d83c1090209e57ff28fc5b5f3fbbea8) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_4827_zps4do9ugok.jpg.html)(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_4826_zpspvzbcsgi.jpg&hash=1702dcad5236ecc7d14c6d6039762a711dd7ccc0) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_4826_zpspvzbcsgi.jpg.html)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Bevis on May 06, 2016, 05:51:11 PM
Nice cabin
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: ajbremer on May 06, 2016, 06:40:53 PM
Very beautiful! You should get about 4 alaskan huskys and get into dog sledding. I did when I lived
in NH and it's an awesome hobby.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on May 07, 2016, 11:59:55 AM
...

We also cleared our first regulatory hurdle this week towards building - the soils in our septic test pits were approved for a standard septic system.  :)

Gotta be loving that! [cool]
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on August 02, 2016, 07:58:42 PM
We ordered our plans from John this week  ;D

We are still over a year out from starting construction, but I wanted to start solidifying our plans so I know what size/length of lumber to cut when we hire a mobile sawmill next spring. 

I have spent most of the summer thinning the forest around our cabin site to reduce fire danger; so far have completed about 8 acres.  Once fire season is over I will start clearing the trees from the cabin site.  We have about 25, 12-17" diameter ponderosa pine, douglas fir and larch that have to come down to make way for the cabin and road.  Plan is to have those milled into siding and trim for the cabin. 

I got a new toy last month that has been very useful.  Got a log arch to skid logs with my ATV.  So far I have not tried anything huge but am pretty impressed with what I have towed.  I have been mostly hauling 8" diameter douglas fir up to 35' long - with barely any strain on the ATV.   Purchased it from countryatv.com - really like the self lifting design. 

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2Flogger2_MG_6621_zpsn5bcdhwh.jpg&hash=0fa6bd6da44a2935011d2c42fbaffa2cfa2158f6) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/logger2_MG_6621_zpsn5bcdhwh.jpg.html)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on October 17, 2016, 08:05:02 PM
Exciting weekend.  We cleared all the trees from the cabin site - about 20 overstory trees that were 12-18" diameter and over 100' tall.  Was sad to see them all go but I skidded them all to a landing with my ATV/log arch and will hire a mobile sawmill to turn them all into lumber for the cabin.  The contractor we hired to level the cabin site and build our road says he might be able to get it done before the snow comes this year, otherwise will have to wait until next summer. 

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_5032_1_zpsiahasuyg.jpg&hash=bfd83ee44b26ca9930896fce48e418d5955bdd03) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_5032_1_zpsiahasuyg.jpg.html)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_5036_zpsuig6xhbl.jpg&hash=6fde0ea388bf05ffc6ea4e850e667ee18d1aa0b1) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_5036_zpsuig6xhbl.jpg.html)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on October 18, 2016, 02:58:42 AM
For some strange reason that is a relaxing day even though physically demanding. Sawing them sooner rather than later would be a good thing.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: OlJarhead on October 18, 2016, 03:17:37 AM
Yes!  Saw those logs green if at all possible.  If I were closer I'd be happy to do it but NE Oregon is likely somewhere from 4 to 6 hours from me (I'm in Moses Lake WA).

That's a LOT of lumber!  If those logs give you at least two 16 footers that are 8" to 12" in diameter at the small end (You can saw logs that are under 8" in diameter at the small end but it really isn't very economical to do so if paying someone else) you'd have ~140bf per two logs (32 feet) x 100 logs = 14k bf of lumber.

I milled up about 200 doug firs that were 8 to 10 inches at the small ends and 16 feet long for a customer up in Republic and because I was working alone it took me 8 days to get that one done.  If you work with the sawyer you can cut that time just about in half (thereby saving you money unless he mills by the board foot instead of by the hour).  If by the hour you should be paying around 35c/bf -- unless there aren't many around and they only work alone in which case they often charge more but I don't think they should ;)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Rys on October 18, 2016, 10:43:15 AM
How exciting! Looking foward to seeing your progress.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on October 18, 2016, 06:56:44 PM
Here are a couple pictures of the starting of my log deck.  This picture was taken before I added another 10-15 logs.  I also still have a handful of trees that died this summer from the drought to cut down - a 24" doug fir, 19" white fir, and four 14-18" pines. 

I have been researching mobile sawmills for the last year and really want to get one, but in the end I finally decided that I probably don't have enough free time to do much sawing. But I am still watching craigslist for any deals that I just can't pass up.....

It is too late in the year for me to get the logs milled before the snow flies so my plan was to have them sit under the snow all winter and then have them milled next spring.  Should that work out fine as far as sawing them green?  I found a local sawyer that mills by the hour - says it typically works out to about .25/bf. 
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_5029_zpsndhqbyxf.jpg&hash=4a6cccb474af6db34adea98b0d2c4df8188b2540) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_5029_zpsndhqbyxf.jpg.html)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_5028_zpsozn8dbiu.jpg&hash=ae5a2659de264890205ddaace76c4acd0f983e5c) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_5028_zpsozn8dbiu.jpg.html)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_5027_zpsuzpzjx27.jpg&hash=d1bc7a44e077ee20230505bb471063737de1834d) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_5027_zpsuzpzjx27.jpg.html)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: OlJarhead on October 19, 2016, 11:51:58 AM
I've milled plenty that sat over the winter so no problem.  One thing you can do is to deck them on top of a couple smaller logs to lift them off the wet ground when the thaw begins.

Ask the sawyer what type of mill he has and what his hourly rate is.  25c/bf is a good rate (very good) and at $85/hr I can often do that but it depends on the logs and the help.  Big logs, but not too big, produce more for your money and are better priced milling by the hour IMO.  Smaller logs produce less.

For example, I've milled some big logs that I was able to get more than 500bf out of in an hour.  That works out to 17c/bf.  On the other hand I've also milled only 1000bf in 8 hrs (when I milled for $75/hr) and that was 60c/bf but I was working alone with small logs.  I mill by the hour because it gives a great incentive to the customer to help me produce and get the job done sooner which saves them money (often a lot) and gets me on the road sooner ;)  But not all customers can help so sometimes I have to do it all alone.  Typical prices for people who mill alone out here run around 50c/bf but again, I mill by the hour.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: OlJarhead on October 19, 2016, 11:56:44 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forestryforum.com%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F22463%2FMark1.jpg%3Feasyrotate_cache%3D1468461981&hash=633fb038864e08242896478de1cd0406ae0ccc4f)
Best log deck I've had to date :)

If you can reproduce that your costs will go down ;)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: OlJarhead on October 19, 2016, 12:01:30 PM
Another piece of advice:  If you have logs that have big sweeps in them, cut them down to take out the sweep.  The sawyer will have to do it anyway or won't be able to produce much out of the log and usually, like me, charges by the hour to do so.

Also, cut logs 6" longer than desired lumber and don't cut 20 foot logs when you want 8 foot boards ;)  Cut them 16 or even 8 foot lengths instead.

I find I can often do two 8 footers in less time than one 16 footer and the off-bearing is a lot easier on the shorter logs.

Plan to have lots of room around the mill and to end up with a lot of slabs (4 per log) and sawdust :)

Get end sealer (Bailey's has it for around $60/5 gallons) and paint the end of the logs now to cut down on checks.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: OlJarhead on October 19, 2016, 12:05:47 PM
OK.  One more ;)

Keep like lengths together.  Example:  all 8 footers together, then 10 footers, 12 footers, so on (or reverse).

It really helps the sawyer out in the end.

And (I know I know, but I love milling)....know what you want!  You can have your lumber milled to 'nominal' sizes (same size as you buy in the store) but have it milled 1/8" over for drying (so if you want a 2x6 it's really 1 1/2  x 5 1/2 and have it milled to 1 5/8 x 5 5/8) but if you would like thicker stuff (I do a lot of that) you can have it milled on the even's (2", 4" 6") which is fast and easy and leaves stuff (in my case with the WoodMizer LT40) that is slightly more than 1 7/8" thick or you can have it milled to 1/8 over FULL dimension (so a TRUE 2x6 plus 1/8th" for drying).

But remember, Simpson brackets are not made for full cut dimensions ;)

True full cut rough sawn lumber is 25% stronger than what you buy in the stores.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on October 19, 2016, 06:29:12 PM
Thanks for all the advice OlJarhead.  I have been reading a bunch on the sawmill page on forestryforum.com - really good info on there.  Getting my deck sorted and off the ground before winter is going to be a challenge without any equipment, but I have an excevator with a thumb coming in next spring that should be able to pretty up my deck for me.  The sawyer I am planning on using has the exact same set up as you and charges by the hour. 

Spent the day out at the property thinning pine today.  Added quite a few more ponderosa pine logs to the deck!   
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on November 08, 2016, 06:23:21 AM
Over the last two weekends we got all the trees cleared from the cabin site, all the logs skidded to the landing, piled and burned all the slash.  Winter is fast approaching so glad to get that all done!  We met with the excavation contractor last weekend.  It is too muddy now to do the road work and cabin leveling, so that will wait until next May. 
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_0033_zpsudonvisq.jpg&hash=920404c20879714c43924f04fe15da9bce9aed54) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_0033_zpsudonvisq.jpg.html)
Picture of the cleared cabin site.  The cabin will go in the right half of the picture.  The left half of the picture will be the turn around for the driveway.  The site is on a 15-20% slope.  I have gone around and around on whether to level the site or dig a foundation into the hill for a walk out.  In the end (unless i change my mind again over the winter) I decided it would be cheaper and easier to have the cabin site leveled and I worry that a cement truck would not be able to get into our site.  It is only going to cost $750 to have the stumps removed and site leveled. 
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_0055_zpsonn5mzxk.jpg&hash=178e1b496acdeca64f209848d3f1102d8e899d06) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_0055_zpsonn5mzxk.jpg.html)
This picture is taken standing in our future "driveway".  We have to put in about 1,000 feet of road and one culvert.  Luckily we have great fractured rock on the property so we should be able to rock the road with on-site rock.  Cost of road and culvert install $2,500. 
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_0060_zpsagbg1u3o.jpg&hash=8b449c037899e261c1b4b0ccd83e9490886741e9) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_0060_zpsagbg1u3o.jpg.html)
Culvert and road will go between the two pines in the center of the picture.(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2Flog%2520deck_zpsy0lqhxvc.jpg&hash=83cc27580918cb24ff0b8842ada8d938c4dc319c) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/log%20deck_zpsy0lqhxvc.jpg.html)
Log deck of trees removed from the cabin site.  Will have our contractor deck them nicer next spring for the sawmill. (https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_4313-1_zps1wcgzbks.jpg&hash=5087446adb9e2f5b3a7df1f88be9efd4259e1b6c) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_4313-1_zps1wcgzbks.jpg.html)
Burned about 30 slash piles.  That is always fun but it is ironic that hundreds of hours of work go up in smoke in only a couple hours. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on January 04, 2017, 10:02:39 PM
I snowshoed into the property this weekend to shovel off the roof of our "tiny cabin".  Legs are a little sore today after 3 1/2 miles of snowshoeing through fluffy dry snow and about 700' elevation gain.  There was 4' of densely packed snow on the roof so good thing I went in there.  That will be a good incentive for me to get our cabin built so I don't have to keep walking in each year and shoveling the roof off our temporary cabin!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_0660_zpsv9pqrijg.jpg&hash=a39aea6a232e9042bba12e1b38cf3d36f9bcdce4) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_0660_zpsv9pqrijg.jpg.html)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: OlJarhead on January 12, 2017, 03:18:10 PM
Glad it held up.  Did you at least spend the night?
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on January 15, 2017, 06:47:44 AM
I really wanted to spend the night but had to head out of town for work the next day so it was a quick trip in, shovel and hike out.  We keep getting hammered with snow, so will probably go back in at some point in Feb to shovel off again and spend the night. 

I have been spending my evenings working on Sketchup on cabin design - would love to do that sitting in the the tiny cabin instead of our living room.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on March 22, 2017, 03:09:17 PM
Started looking into insurance for our future cabin.  Wow - that was an eye opening experience. 

From what I can tell so far, being outside of a fire protection district, only accessible seasonally, being owner built, and not being occupied full time basically makes our cabin un-insurable.  Farmer's Insurance said they are willing to look at it and possibly provide a quote, but only if we transfer all of our other insurance to them.  Getting a little worried that if we do find someone willing to insure the place it will be such a high annual payment that it is not worth it. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on June 13, 2017, 06:28:04 PM
Has been an exciting couple of weeks at the property.  Had a contractor come in with two excavators, a dozer and a dump truck to put culverts in, put about 1/4 mile driveway in, develop a hardened stream crossing, dig out the stumps and level the cabin site, and do some other projects here and there. 

They are about 95% done and it has turned out great.  We had to meet the state fire access standards for the road access and turn around - so you could drive a school bus in to the cabin site if you wanted to.  Kind of ridiculous but I guess it will pay off if we ever have a wildfire.  It is really nice to be able to drive to that part of our property now.  Next step - mobile sawmill coming in two weekends to mill about 100 logs into lumber. 

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_1366_zpsox1to0kk.jpg&hash=66c0fd65495c12ab2b79c3e7895dca9444c1b80a) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_1366_zpsox1to0kk.jpg.html)
Dozer starting in on the new driveway.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_1379_zpsw2smzn83.jpg&hash=d65fd4df8c2ee9f46ad8d0b400b584fd014f66a5) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_1379_zpsw2smzn83.jpg.html)
Dozer cutting in the new road and ripping up some 30" Douglas Fir stumps.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_1393_zpswhvvmhhy.jpg&hash=e67efbcae3a5aad1153eb039cc8a33bbcc7d0e89) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_1393_zpswhvvmhhy.jpg.html)

Dozer rounding the corner on the new road to the cabin site.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_1194_zpsnykexckt.jpg&hash=cfe7717298c099c30a37bc7cf5eac0ce5f9c24ad) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_1194_zpsnykexckt.jpg.html)

Spreading new rock (from on site) over the new culvert at the stream crossing.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_1196_zpse3cagbot.jpg&hash=4727a155a1e6425efe351a7cb70705441096db74) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_1196_zpse3cagbot.jpg.html)

Middle of the new driveway.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_1197_zpsj9iiqldq.jpg&hash=51c25d6a8ab52498759728cc6a4b011d5948a609) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_1197_zpsj9iiqldq.jpg.html)

Finished driveway.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_1408_zps1yegvcoa.jpg&hash=e0e5e9008c9b02ef5c32283cf6862458821a802b) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_1408_zps1yegvcoa.jpg.html)
Dozer starting to rip out stumps at the cabin site.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_1451_zpsduh95ovp.jpg&hash=77cadec10e5b481156c12fe023da153b5974ee83) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_1451_zpsduh95ovp.jpg.html)
Finished leveled cabin site.  If you look close you can see the stakes for the corners of the cabin.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2FIMG_1190_zpsx4mc5wbp.jpg&hash=d07b7a3d95575891a23856f929d2c88d9726a400) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/IMG_1190_zpsx4mc5wbp.jpg.html)
Another shot of the leveled cabin site. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: azgreg on June 14, 2017, 03:51:41 AM
Man! What a view!  :)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: John Raabe on June 14, 2017, 05:05:01 AM
Very nice site and a good base for the road. You will likely be thankful many times for that wider road the county required.  :)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on June 25, 2017, 03:11:29 PM
Hired a mobile sawmill to come in and cut our logs into lumber this weekend.  Great fun!

We had mostly Ponderosa Pine and Douglas Fir.  Cut it all into 1x12's, 10's and 8's - most of it is 12' length.  Should have enough for the siding of the cabin. We only got about half of the logs done but the mill operator was not able to stay another day.  Now need to decide whether to have him come back out later in the summer or have a couple years of easy firewood. 

Now I really want a hydraulic Woodmizer.........just need to find $40,000 laying around in the couch cushions. 

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2Fthumb_IMG_6111_1024_zps16dn9dae.jpg&hash=5fb863e62144b827dcf52a44bd0e7959e41ea933) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/thumb_IMG_6111_1024_zps16dn9dae.jpg.html)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2Fthumb_IMG_1354_1024_zpsb0b3donw.jpg&hash=61f62c100791ba920ac17087f1a6be1c31830e82) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/thumb_IMG_1354_1024_zpsb0b3donw.jpg.html)(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2Fthumb_IMG_1334_1024_zps0rkgkfkl.jpg&hash=6307781bbc5139715856bc528b90c129e38b1dad) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/thumb_IMG_1334_1024_zps0rkgkfkl.jpg.html)(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2Fthumb_IMG_1297_1024_zpso7thisdy.jpg&hash=ce569ecd96147bb0312a051fbaa147b7f6274bd5) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/thumb_IMG_1297_1024_zpso7thisdy.jpg.html)(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2Fthumb_IMG_1299_1024_zps7kfbytjd.jpg&hash=ccc109ed2621f2221283ef85efe55bbe634538fa) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/thumb_IMG_1299_1024_zps7kfbytjd.jpg.html)(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu389%2Fspringermtn%2Fthumb_IMG_1321_1024_zpsqrj65rz4.jpg&hash=4d3a02c4760a79e18a6f661d4f0e9dc1c60dc378) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/springermtn/media/thumb_IMG_1321_1024_zpsqrj65rz4.jpg.html)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on July 13, 2017, 07:48:51 PM
Why is photobucket not working on most other threads but still working for the image links in my thread?
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: MountainDon on July 14, 2017, 12:12:19 PM
It took over 10 days for one of my PB accounts to go dark.
 ??? ???
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Adam Roby on July 14, 2017, 06:34:56 PM
It's just a question of time... I thought mine were immune... then one day mine were all dead.  :(
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: OlJarhead on July 18, 2017, 04:10:54 AM
Not to highjack but all pb accounts are going dark unless you pay them a ransom.  I might see if I can just delete mine.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on November 13, 2017, 08:37:45 PM
Well it has been an extremely busy year at the property!  Finally took some time to figure out a new photo hosting service so I could upload pictures.  This year we focused on getting our property and infrastructure in place so we can hopefully start building next year.  After getting all the culvert, road work, cabin site clearing/leveling, and swamping done earlier in the summer, my fall has been focused on forest thinning, fencing and seeding.  I got another 15 acres of thinning done.  I cut some of the trees into poles for a buck and pole fence.  We build 620' of 6 foot high buck and pole fence as part of an aspen restoration project - to keep the deer and elk away from the tender aspen shoots until they can get out of browse height.  We also had a contractor come in and build 6,200' of barbed wire letdown fence to keep the USFS allotment cattle out of our meadows and riparian areas.  Also scored 42 neighboring acres to add to our ownership - purchased it in a Sheriff's auction on the courthouse steps! Part of me is sad to see the snow fly for the year and close our access to the property down......but part of me is ready to rest for the winter!
(https://i.imgur.com/b9wJNMD.jpg)
Finally have gates up on our two roads!

(https://i.imgur.com/ZOtLOHk.jpg)
One of the buck and pole fences we built around a spring/aspen stand.  You can't see in the picture but there is a carpet of aspen shoots coming up that get browsed off every year.  In 5-10 years this should be a forest of aspen.

(https://i.imgur.com/jC6fbu2.jpg)
One of the young pine stands I am thinning. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on January 05, 2018, 07:49:53 PM
Looking for any feedback on my initial rough plans before I redraft them as final and start figuring out the exact truss and joist/beam sizes.

We are planning on building a 20 x 34 1.5 story based on the 20x30 plans from this site.  I am just learning to use Sketchup so things are a little rough but hopefully you can follow what we are planning from the images below.   

We are extending the walls to 11' which will give us a 2' knee wall on the second floor.  The roof will be 12/12 pitch.  I am meeting with the truss guy next week, but my plan at this point is to do parallel chord trusses to maximize the space on the 2nd floor.  We really want a toilet and enclosed bedroom upstairs.  I spent a lot of time figuring out how to make a half bath and bedroom fit and still meet the code requirements but I got it to work and still have a little wiggle room for changes - but space will be tight and a little awkward up there.  The rest of the 2nd floor will just be open space for additional sleeping/kids playing.  The roof will not have any dormers. 

Downstairs we had to switch the bedroom and bathroom around from the plans so we could fit stairs in that meet code.  We lost some counter space in the kitchen but I think it should work our OK.  I spent a lot of time doing calculations on paper and have the exact measurements for the stairs to meet code - the Sketchup drawing is very close, but not exact to my drawing/calculations. We will need to have a pressure pump and/or pressure tank for water - plan on fitting that in the downstairs bathroom against the kitchen wall.

The driveway and parking are adjacent to the bedroom, so the main entrance will be in the small bump out/mudroom.  Then we will have another door off the living/dining room going out to a small covered porch.  The great view of the mountains is out the large window next to the dinning room table. 

Still working on span tables, joist sizes, etc. but hoping to use 4x12 beams spaced 48" with 2x6 decking for the 2nd floor and 2x12's for floor joists.  No load bearing interior walls.  We will be getting permits, meet code, and inspected.

I have done some interior remodeling, decks, sheds, etc. but never built anything like this before so a little intimidating.  I plan to contract out a poured stem wall foundation, but otherwise tackle the rest myself. 

Any thoughts or suggestions from what I have now would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

(https://i.imgur.com/jjCrfQ2.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/iTQloEO.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/SzHQW7N.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/TzteSzg.jpg)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Rys on January 06, 2018, 04:27:20 PM
Love the kitchen. Looking foward to seeing your final lay out.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on January 09, 2018, 08:07:53 PM
Thanks Rys.  We really wanted a counter with bar stools and felt the layout would work well for our needs. 

Tomorrow I am meeting with the truss company to get specs and a quote on the roof trusses.  Looking forward to getting that piece of the puzzle figured out. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: NathanS on January 10, 2018, 05:54:28 AM
I have to admit every time I see pics of your property I am a little envious. Looking forward to see the construction begin.

I'm hesitant to try to give advice on your layout, everyone has different priorities.

I'm wondering if that ~3x3 space for the two doors to bathroom and bedroom downstairs is kind of awkward. That bed could end up jammed into a corner so the door opens properly. Not sure if you could squeeze in two doors on that flat wall there either. The other thing that crossed my mind is to just move the downstairs bed upstairs and put the bath where the bedroom was. That corner might be a good place for a kitchen table and make the living space more arrangeable. Depending on your family I could see us sitting at the kitchen counter more than at the table. Some of these details are why we ultimately switched to a full second story.

Are you doing slab/crawlspace? Or full basement? The space under the stairs could make for quite a bit of storage. Make sure the mudroom is large enough for utilities, or just that you have a plan for them. 8x12 was just enough for us. In retrospect if I had made it around 8x13 it would have lined up with the stairwell partition wall better, doesn't really apply here but those details are easy to mix up.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on January 10, 2018, 09:33:42 AM
The thinning and fencing work you've done looks like it was quite a chore.  Well done!

Looking at the floor plan, I agree with Nathan about the awkwardness of the "hallway".  Did you consider a much shallower recess with angled walls?

It looks like the front door is going to be close to the drip line from the roof.  I'd be looking for a way to have the entry under a gable rake rather than an eave.  What do you think of building the bump-out with a gable roof and moving your door around to where the window currently is?  That would make the roof slightly more complex but would get your door away from the drip line and reduce significantly any potential snow accumulation on the front steps.

If you did that, you would have some space where the door currently is that would instead allow you to run the stairs as a straight flight.  That in turn would free up some space in the main living area, perhaps enough to expand the downstairs bedroom a little.

I probably should look back and see what you're designing for, but is this to be a weekend getaway place or more closer to full time occupancy?  I ask because your kitchen area looks sized for more full-time use, and if this will only see occasional use you might be able to compress it some.  If the counter stools aren't a necessity you could slide the entire kitchen over a foot or so. (EDIT: Just read your comment to Rys so ... never mind )

For your floor joists, it looks like 2x12 on 16" spacing can span 19' and change, depending on wood species and grade.  That's probably right about the span where engineered floor joists become a better option.  You might want to at least get a quote from your supplier to see how they compare cost-wise.  If it's about a wash, I'd go with whichever makes the plumbing easier.

If you are building this as platform construction, you can make your upstairs wall as high as you want.  The floor upstairs serves as a diaphragm stabilizing the walls, so if you want a 3' or 4' knee wall you can do that, especially if it helps with the stairs.  That's my understanding at least, check with your county for confirmation.

Last question, is the crawl space suitable for housing the water pressure tank?
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on January 10, 2018, 07:17:00 PM
Nathan S, yes we are very fortunate to have been able to purchase the property we did.  It has been a lifelong dream of mine and I still pinch myself to make sure it is actually happening. 

Thank you for the feedback on the floor plan.

Our foundation will be a poured stem wall/crawl space.  The site would have worked well for a walkout basement but it was too cost prohibitive. 

We are trying to keep the bedroom downstairs so we can maximize the sleeping capacity of the cabin - looking forward to packing it with family and friends on the weekends. 

Good point on the akwardness of the little hall between the downstairs bedroom and bathroom.  Haven't thought about it until now, but I might try putting the bedroom door on the other wall of that hall so it is no opening up into the bed.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on January 10, 2018, 07:34:05 PM
ChugiakTinkerer - the thinning and fencing has been a LOT of work, but it is a labor of love!  I call it chainsaw "therapy" that helps me recover from a work week of meetings and sitting at a desk.  I have completed about 50 of the 80 acres; I am going to leave the rest for a contractor with a slash buster head on an excavator! 

As for the awkward hallway - not sure I follow you on your suggestion of a shallower recess with angled walls?  Are you suggesting instead of a squarish hallway, having a triangular recess with the doors on two sides of the triangle?  Nope - never thought of that but will play with the idea.

The bump out would work better with a gable roof, but I have been leaning toward keeping it how I have it for two reasons.  1) The bump out is up against a cut bank so it would be a little awkward walking out the front door and only having about 6 feet until you run into a hill side and 2) We have heavy snow loads and I was worried about a gable roof leading to snow/ice build up.  Still on the fence for what to do, but I agree that a gable roof would look better and be more practical.  I am very intrigued by your suggestion of expanding the stairs into the bump out; need to investigate that idea.

This will be a weekend cabin.  Used most weekends of the spring/summer/fall, a couple extended week stays, and a few weekends during the winter.  The full size kitchen probably shows that my wife and I are kind of foodies and really enjoy cooking. 

Had not thought about engineered floor joists - will get a quote on those. 

All along I have been planning on balloon framing, but am open to platform framing if I end up needing the extra ceiling height.  I am not real excited about working so high up on a 12/12 roof, so have been trying to stay away from making it any taller - but hey falling from 11' vs. 13' probably hurts just the same! 

Not sure if the crawl space is suitable for the pressure tank.  Next on my winter "to do" list is to start nailing down the details of our water and power system.  We have gravity flow spring water, but not enough pressure to flush a toilet.  I assume we will need a pressure pump and tank, but have not gotten very far on planning yet.  Same goes for power; have not thought much yet about where to house the battery bank, inverter, etc. 

Thanks again for all  your suggestions.  Very helpful!

Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on January 11, 2018, 10:16:42 AM
I see the challenge for putting a door on the cut bank side.  But imagine the deepest snow you've seen up there and double it.  Now imagine taking a plow and pushing it through an area 12' wide (half the house width plus eaves).  That's how much snow will be on your doorstep in a heavy snow year.  And if the snow instead is sticking to the roof, once you warm up the cabin it will slide off.  That's a pretty hazardous situation to be having a walkway and door. 

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/alaska/articles/2017-04-02/girl-buried-injured-by-snow-sliding-off-roof-in-alaska

I unfortunately don't have a solution for what I see as a problem with your entrance.  Having foot traffic along the drip line is something I avoided in my design because of the snow issue.

For water, you could build a cistern to catch and store the spring flow.  If temperatures don't get too low it could stay liquid in winter.  Especially if you have a light bulb going for heat.

As to the angled recess, you got the gist of my intended communication.  For playing with floor plans, Sketchup rather sucks.  SweetHome3D is great for trying out different ideas, then when you think you have something move on to Sketchup for the full 3D visualization.

Balloon framing works great, that's what I'm doing for my guest cabin (work in progress here (https://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=14680)).  For 2x6 walls though, they get pretty darn heavy.  If you go that route make sure you've got a crew or some wall jacks for standing up a framed wall.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: GaryT on January 11, 2018, 11:08:41 AM
Some friends had a camp built on the Miramichi, by some "design/build"  guys.  Their design allowed this to happen:

(https://i.imgur.com/MfzQsYD.jpg)

So I got the job of moving the door around the corner:

(https://i.imgur.com/b44iCWL.jpg)

They did a pitiful job of sealing the sill plate of the door in the first place...I also got to put in about 60 sq.ft. of new sleepers, subfloor and flooring, because the melted snow was just pouring in under the door.   
I am a strong believer in being careful of door locations in snow country!!
Gary
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: MountainDon on January 11, 2018, 01:11:56 PM
Sorry that I never paid much attention to this topic in the past. In places where it snow my feeling is that doors belong in gable walls. The gable end door has a shed roof over it with the walkway approaching from the side. We did find that the snow sliding off one side of the main roof slid far enough to flow to the sidewalk that parallels the north side.

 Snow guards can help a lot; they vary from metal or plastic "clips" secured at intervals all over the roof to strip or pipe bars near the eve. They hold the snow in place. We added snow guards to help with the snow on the sidewalk issue as well as to save the snow melt in the cistern. We have both the door in the gable and snow guards.

Travel in the Alps and you find snow guards on virtually all the roofs.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: NathanS on January 11, 2018, 01:39:58 PM
That's a lot of snow Gary. Just to play devil's advocate, looks like there is about as much on that gable wall with the door but someone was trying to keep it shoveled out.  ;D

In my opinion if you own this amount of land, a tractor with loader is necessary evil. It doesn't matter if it's 6" of snow or 6 feet, you can pull it away from the door in a couple minutes. You will spend way more time clearing the driveway.

Gotta decide what compromises to make. Sometimes it seems like all a house is, is one giant compromise.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on January 12, 2018, 05:16:16 PM
Well sometimes it helps to have people tell you something you already know is a bad idea.  I have looked at this for a year and not come up with any other good options for the entry, but while laying in bed at 5 this morning an idea hit me - back to the drawing board on Sketchup.  I am working on a design where the bump out will be adjacent to the downstairs bathroom.  That will put the entrance door at the gable end of the cabin and have the entrance into the interior of the cabin between the kitchen and bathroom.  In the end it will decrease the size of the bathroom but should also increase the size of the bedroom and allow me to move the cabin closer to the cutbank which will give us more outdoor space where we want it adjacent to the kitchen.  Appreciate everyones advice. 

NathanS - I agree, I need a tractor!  Can I give you my wife's phone number so you can convince her of that????  My problem is I have the taste and ambition of fine champagne and the budget of warm Budweiser.  All of my funds are going into building the cabin for the foreseeable future, so the closest thing I will have to a tractor any time soon is my own two biceps......

Got quotes for purchase and delivery of trusses yesterday.  $2700 for scissor trusses (12/12 roof and 9/12 ceiling) and $3250 for parallel chord trusses (12/12 exterior and interior).  Not to bad considering at least 4 hour round trip delivery, remote location and 111 psf snow load.

I will post a new plan when I get it done. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on March 01, 2018, 07:16:34 PM
Life got busy and had to take a couple months off from cabin planning. 

I re-designed our floor plan and moved the main entrance/mudroom so the entry way door would be on the gable end of the cabin and not where all the snow piles up in the winter.  The main roof will be 12/12 but will have a 6/12 over the mudroom.  This gives us a smaller bathroom but more room in the mudroom and it seems to fit the topography of the site better. 

 (https://i.imgur.com/wFWAq7H.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Tif9uER.jpg)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Rys on March 02, 2018, 05:29:27 PM
Would love to see a picture showing your entire floor layout.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on March 06, 2018, 08:05:55 PM
I am struggling to understand how to calculate the size of the beams for the 2nd floor.  I am hoping to have 4x12 DF beams spaced 48" on center with 2x6 TG floor like many people on the forum have done, but I have tried to understand how to calculate loads and beam size and haven't been able to figure it out.  All of the tables I have found end at 2x12 lumber sizes.  Anyone have suggestions on where to start or how to do this? 

Another issue I have to figure out - I am hoping to have an opening for the stairs as shown in the image below.  I assume to do this, I will have to have a load bearing post to support the beam that does not go all the way across the cabin (i.e. load bearing post in the corner just left of the door under the stairs in the picture).

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

(https://i.imgur.com/r6hf8wY.jpg)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on March 07, 2018, 05:22:41 AM
They were spanning narrower buildings and/or not checking the engineering. I'm going to walk through stream of consciousness here, it is an iterative process, hold on  :D

This is a heavy timber beam calc I wrote using basic engineering formulas and design values from the NDS.
http://timbertoolbox.com/Calcs/beamclc06b.htm
You can also download the Wood Structural Design Data manual, WSDD, at awc.org which will get you there as well.

Assuming you have foundation support under the stair closet corner at the woodstove side it looks like the short joist is supported there. The next long joist is point loaded around midspan by 1/4 the load of the width of that load of the bay over the fridge, which is no more than the other common joists in effect. In other words if the long common joists pass muster I'd say you are good. In other words the long common joists will be the control, check them.

On the calc assuming the span is 20' and the spacing is 4', each joist is supporting floor for 2' on either side of the joist so 4'x20'= 80 sf of tributary area loading the joist. At 40psf live load+10psf dead load =80sf X 50 lbs per square foot =4000 lbs uniform load/joist. 80sf x 10psf=800lbs dead load
That gives you inputs, these are beams and stringers in the calc... I'm getting fails even at the highest grade and I don't like your 4' spacing. drop to 3' and punt...60sf trib x 50=#3000 total load and 600lb DL. Still getting fails in deflection. One way is to continue to decrease the spacing, that is quite a span. You can also decraese span length by wall thicknesses minus about 4" for bearing. Hmmm, back to the books...

OK I used the most conservative numbers for Dougfir-south. If you can source Dougfir in dense #1 the E numbers increase to 1.7 vs  1.2, a good bit stiffer.
Manual input calc here; http://timbertoolbox.com/Calcs/beamcalc.htm
Fb-1550
E- 1.7
Fv-170
Still failing in deflection...

Drop to 32" spacing, pass in dense #1

But, we just changed the loading scenario on that header joist and the first long common joist it attaches to, there are now joists out on that cantilever so we need to check that if you wish to proceed down this path. If so redraw at 32" spacing and dimension that area.

 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: NathanS on March 07, 2018, 07:08:21 AM
I wonder if you could sneak a post in at the corner of the breakfast counter and then another load point around stair/bedroom wall. Then you can put in a beam to break the span.

Also for the upstairs bathroom if you want to tile you will need another joist for the 'between joist' deflection. Might need to enclose that space anyway to hide plumbing.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on March 08, 2018, 01:28:18 AM
Thank you for all your help Don!  Based on your info and the calculator, I think I will use a spacing of 36" and bump the size of my beam up to 5x12 #2 DF.  I am planning on cutting the beams myself on a mobile sawmill from DF on our place - so we can cut any dimension we need.  I am also thinking we can do as Nathan suggested and put a load bearing post in on either side of the stairs and a third at the end of the breakfast bar - that should eliminate any catelivered joists.  In a perfect world I would rather not have that post at the end of the breakfast bar but it would not be that big of a deal to have.  I will draw up a new Sketchup version and post it later. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on March 08, 2018, 03:44:06 AM
Able make your own, good deal. Bumping up to 5 or 6x will help quite a bit. You might want to consider putting temporary posts at midspan under them until it seasons if you put it up green, the strength will almost double green to dry, that is an old way to help prevent a deflection set during drying.  On the barn job we've been working on a mezzanine between lofts that has a 20' span with joists at 3' spacing. We are only 6' wide  so not a lot of load sharing over multiple members. I ran a 4x12 on each side and a 6x12 down the middle with 1-1/2" thick decking, all in yellow poplar which is not quite as strong or stiff as DF-South. It works but is none too much, that is quite a span.  I'm not sure that you need the post, draw and dimension this when you get a chance, lets keep trying without it first.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on March 09, 2018, 08:13:57 PM
I started working on reducing the spacing to 36" between beams, beefing the size up to 5x12, and trying to avoid a post near the breakfast bar.  Problem I run into now is meeting clearance requirements between the lower stairs and the beam.  The only way I can meet code is if the beam that is above the lower few stairs is spaced 4' out from the beam that is inline with the wall behind the stove.  Could I use 5x12's spaced 36" but in that one place use a 6x12 spaced 48"?
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on March 10, 2018, 04:31:48 AM
My failure to communicate. Keep that stair hole as it is in the drawing above, what I was looking for was where and how many joists you end up with on the cantilever of the header joist running over the stair closet wall to 1st long common joist, that will determine that 1st common joist size. I want to know where along the length of the common the header lands and where along the header joist the short commons land, also the length and free span of the header.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on March 10, 2018, 05:56:34 AM
Well I think it is more my ignorance than your failure to communicate! I understand now.  Thanks Don. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on March 18, 2018, 09:15:20 AM
Ok Don; let's see if I can explain everything I have done....

Some important stats:  1) The clear span beams will span a total of 19' from inside edge of exterior wall to inside of exterior wall, 2) the beam that will be supported by the joist will span 113 1/2" from the joist to the inside edge of the exterior wall (this assumes we use a 4x12 for the joist - subtract an inch if we use a 5x12, and 3) the two full spanning beams that the joist goes between must be >80" apart (measured nearest edge to nearest edge) for there to be enough head clearance on the stairs.

Below images are Sketchups that help show what I am trying to do - there are two inaccuracies I have not had time to fix yet - first I have not drawn in all of the other clear spanning beams; second, the top stair will end flush with the joist - not extend out from the joist as it does now.  I am sawing my own DF beams, so I can dimension them however needed.  Outside of the spacing issue around the stairs - I am now thinking 5x12 beams (#2 or better) 36" OC. 

(https://i.imgur.com/6rKLWzx.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/YwWP8JL.jpg)

Next are two hand-drawn images:

This one shows the beam lengths and constraints that I talked about above.

(https://i.imgur.com/S1t08a8.jpg?1)

This one shows the framing that I envisioned under the stairs/around the door.  Not sure if I framed this correctly to support the load of that joist/beam - but I basically just used a 4x4 on each side of the door.  If that is the correct sizing, the measurements of the wall fit the exact size of the stairs - if not, I can always use larger posts and extend the wall a bit. 

If the spacing between the short beam and the full beams is too great, I could add a second short beam. 

(https://i.imgur.com/1yLZOcx.jpg)

So there are lots of questions in here but the main question I am trying to answer is if I have a load bearing wall under the stairs to support the joist, what size joist and beams do I need?


Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on March 18, 2018, 04:56:25 PM
Cool, The short joist, I'm looking at is effectively bearing on the closet. The header joist then is not really point loading the 1st common joist so that is really more like a uniformly loaded joist and it has less tributary area than the other common long joists... it doesn't need to be any bigger than the other commons, they are the control.

Work one of them 3' oc x 19' span=57sf x 50 psf (40LL+10DL)=#2850 total load, #570 DL
http://www.timbertoolbox.com/Calcs/beamclc06b.htm
#2DF
The 5x12's look right  [cool]

Grade critically as you saw, these are long spans, take the time to get good stuff.
As my mason says, now all we lack is finishing  :D
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Rys on March 19, 2018, 02:39:07 AM
 I'm trying to finalize my floor layout. One of the (many) issues I've been having is my stairs meeting code. Do you care to share what you came up with?
 Our cabin will be a full time residence. Fitting everything in with good flow is quite a challenge!
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on March 19, 2018, 01:14:01 PM
One degree of freedom in fitting stairs is the wall height.  Building with a 9' wall may allow the needed head clearance.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on March 19, 2018, 06:10:26 PM
Don thanks for all your help!  I am feeling a little more confident with this build now that i am starting to figure out some of the details. 

Rys, I will post my stair details when I am at home with my files next.  I spent a LOT of time making it work but in a nutshell I had to raise the height of my walls to 11' 2" to provide the necessary headspace at the mid-landing, top surface of my loft floor is 9' 1 1/2", and stairs are 7 1/4" rise and 10 1/2" tread (without the overhang). 

Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Rys on March 20, 2018, 01:57:39 AM
Thanks Nick!
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on March 31, 2018, 06:30:41 AM
Question on framing to support the beams for the 2nd floor.  I am leaning toward 6x12" beams spaced 48'' OC now.  I am planning on balloon framing 2x6 walls with studs spaced 16" OC.  With this large of beams, I assume I need to put a post in the wall under each beam instead of what you typically see people doing on this site where they cut a 2x6" ledger board into all of the studs to support the second floor?  This is what ffpara did on his Utah build: https://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=14691.25
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on March 31, 2018, 09:50:45 AM
Yup, post under them. When you point load something follow that load path all the way to the ground, so under the subfloor there needs to be a short post or some framing capable of taking the concentrated load as well, and that needs to be on top of foundation wall and sufficient footing.

Going OT a little bit, I bit my tongue when I saw it, one of those "look what fine work I've done" posts.  Now that we're on another thread with some time separation... a porch picture, they had piers and posts under the porch and then the porch posts on top didn't line up with the supports below at all. The concentrated load of the post supporting the roof out in the span of the beam supporting the floor load was effectively tripling the bending stress on those beams. Follow those concentrated loads carefully.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on June 09, 2018, 04:56:26 AM
Has been a while since I posted.  Progress on cabin design/planning has came to a halt as project work on our land took priority.  It was a busy spring.  We hired a logger to select harvest about 60 of our 124 acres. They took around 40 log truck loads. The project went well, the remaining health trees should grow really well now and the forest will look good once all the vegetation grows back in the skid trails. 

(https://i.imgur.com/SRL7XKG.jpg)
We had the loggers hold back about 10,000 bdft of logs for us and a friend to mill into lumber (all of the logs with blue dots in the picture).  Next week we will be using a mobile sawmill to start milling the logs.  We will mill Douglas fir 6"x12"x20' beams for our loft floor, 6"x6" posts to support the beams, and the rest of the fir will be 2x8, 2x10, 2x12 for various things.  The ponderosa pine will all be milled into 1" stock for board and batten siding, exterior and interior trim, and interior shiplap. 

(https://i.imgur.com/4LDDDe2.jpg)
These are the logs that will be milled into the 20' 6"x12" beams - excited to see those exposed beams in the cabin next year!

We are renting an excavator to move the logs onto the mill and lift the beams off the mill, so we will also be digging our outhouse hole and doing some improvements to our road and cabin site.  Other than that, the only other movement toward building a cabin we plan for this year is hopefully contracting the foundation and septic this fall. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: MountainDon on June 09, 2018, 05:39:27 PM
 [cool]
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Beavers on June 10, 2018, 05:53:51 PM
That's awesome...nothing cooler than building your own house from your own trees!
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on June 11, 2018, 03:49:51 PM
Good deal, that's nice looking timber  :)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on June 11, 2018, 06:53:04 PM
I am looking forward to making sawdust this weekend. There is something special about building with wood that you milled from your own property.  I will post pictures when we get done. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: OlJarhead on June 21, 2018, 03:35:56 AM
Ahhh yup :)  Speaking my language now :)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on June 24, 2018, 06:07:37 AM
Well I am sore and tired but we pretty much got all of our swamping done over the last two weekends.  We rented a excavator last weekend to move logs and the 6"x12"x20' beams.  I had the excavator for 3 days and could put 24 hours on it.  We didn't use more than a few hours of time on the excavator during a day of milling, so I did all kinds of projects before and after we milled lumber each day.  Got the outhouse hole dug, put a fire truck passing lane in on our driveway (required by law), and piled brush from thinning.  Worked from 5am to 9pm each day. 

The milling went well.   For the beams we had 11, 21' Douglas Fir logs that ranged in diameter from 14-20".  The largest log calculated out around 2,300 pounds.  It was slow going due to the size of the logs and beams. We had to move the logs to the mill with the excavator, then use it to move the beams to the trailer and then unload the beams from the trailer.  We milled 12, 6"x12"x20' beams that will support the full loft, 6"x6" posts that will support the beams and will also be used for some exterior posts, a ton of 2x12,10,and8's, and 1x12 and 1x3 board and batten siding.  All in all we ended up milling about 5700 board feet of lumber.  Can't wait to see those beams up in the cabin!
(https://i.imgur.com/Pxy9Cqh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JpX7F0m.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2PC4QUG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Xq3VIYr.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5foSjm2.jpg)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: OlJarhead on June 25, 2018, 03:38:27 PM
Looking great!  Looks like the sawyer knows his stuff too!
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on June 26, 2018, 02:54:34 PM
Thanks.  The beams turned out beautiful.  We have 4 stacks of lumber now ranging in length from 12' to 20' and all over 5 feet tall - people are starting to wonder if we are building a cabin or an apartment complex!
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: NathanS on June 26, 2018, 03:31:17 PM
That Doug Fir is beautiful. You must be really itching to build now.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on June 26, 2018, 04:09:06 PM
A little grading stuff to think about as you pick and choose which timber to use where.
Look at the pic of the timbers on the trailer. You would need to look at all sides but from what I'm seeing, the top timber with the slightly waney edge, a little bark showing, that is the strongest timber showing, grain is straight and the wood is just about clear. That kind of timber goes to highest loads and/or longest spans.

Next timber down is showing cathedrals in the grain, there is grain runout, that is weaker. The near end is showing what looks like massed pitch on one of those cathedrals in the grain. Whenever you see massed pitch look for injury, that may be a split. If so cut that out and get beyond it. This timber and the one below it would be a grade or two below the top timber so shorter spans and/or lighter load places.

The bottom flat timber has 2 knots completely across the bottom edge that extend onto the faces. The way cross grain shrinks in length around knots means that edge will likely get shorter than the opposite edge meaning that timber will bow concave on the knot edge, that's why I called that the bottom edge... I would love to turn timbers like that with the knot edge up but then the crown would be wrong as it dries, we never get a break  :D. Anyway with those 3 fce knots that timber is effectively the width from top edge to knot tops, again shorter spans or lighter loads.  The timber under that one, the near knot in that edge looks like a well centered knot on that edge with intact fiber flowing around the knot, you can see that knot reappearing on the face right at the edge of the timber above in the neutral axis where stress is low that nice strap of wood flowing around the knot along that edge is good. The next knot up that timber is the controlling defect of what we can see, near midspan and a 2 face knot, that strap if good fiber is on only one side of that knot.

This is not criticism just recognition of the natural material we are working with. As I'm moving timbers around and looking through my pile that is the kind of thing that is rolling through my head. All depending on cut lengths I can often bump a timber up a grade by removing a defect with the length cuts. One thing I see often enough is trying to remove a knot or defect by putting a mortise there and removing that wood. That is a mistake. In that instance they are taking an already weaker section of wood and damaging it further, it is better to put the defect away from joinery and maintain as much fiber intact around it. If you can put a defect nearer but not at the end rather than say midspan of a bending member that is effectively bumping the grade up. Bending moment is greatest at midspan, shear is highest at the ends. Part of the challenge and reward of working with wood, it keeps you thinking the whole time. On a barn we were recently working on we had the catwalk joists in and were standing around at the end of the day jazzed... when I saw a gnarly 3 faced knot I had missed. Of course right on the highest stress joist, a 6x12 spanning 18' and supporting the stairs as well. At some point 5 of us had touched that joist, Murphy at his best. We made another one the next day and swapped out, it keeps one humble.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on June 26, 2018, 06:43:15 PM
Excellent wood wisdom Don.  Thank you for sharing your knowledge. 

The Douglas Fir logs we cut into beams had more bow in them than I had hoped for - a couple of them had so much we barely got a 20' 6x12 out of them. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: dablack on June 27, 2018, 04:06:16 AM
Posts and beams look great!  The only big beams I used are 8x10 and 13' long.  I have four of those on the porch sitting on 8x8 posts.  Everyone loves the look of real solid wood and not some little 4x4s or fake posts or boxed beams (not that there is anything wrong with that).

Austin
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: OlJarhead on June 27, 2018, 02:42:34 PM
Excellent wood wisdom Don.  Thank you for sharing your knowledge. 

The Douglas Fir logs we cut into beams had more bow in them than I had hoped for - a couple of them had so much we barely got a 20' 6x12 out of them.

We call that 'stress' and it can't be completely removed.  Watch those timbers as they dry as I would anticipate they will crown more than expected.  I always try to advise my customers to cut down stressed logs to reduce as much stress as possible -- for example, a 20 foot log with a bow in it might be two 10 footers with a lot less stress.

In the end, trees grow the way they grow and the sawyer can try to mill out some stress etc but in the end nature decides what it will do!  You will often get a lot better lumber for a good portable sawyer but that doesn't mean you will only get specials and number ones! :D
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on July 31, 2018, 06:34:47 PM
We finally finished milling 12,000 board feet of lumber (half for our cabin, half for a friend).  It is way to hot to work anymore; so back to preparing to submit plans for our building permit - hoping to submit in a couple weeks.  I have a contractor lined up to put in our foundation this fall, so need to get moving of finalizing plans.  Code compliance is a bit intimidating for a building newbie but I am enjoying learning all this stuff as I go. 

I have a few questions related to the foundation and also looking for anyone to tell me I am doing something wrong, stupid or against code! 

(https://i.imgur.com/haEOzns.jpg)

We are planning a 8" stew wall foundation on a 8x16" poured footing.  The cabin will be 20x34' with a 6x14' bump out for the main entrance/mudroom. 

(https://i.imgur.com/XZDfV6Z.jpg)

Cross section of our stem wall.  Planning on using I-joist - 20' for the majority of the cabin and 26' span (supported by girder at 20') for the bump out.  I am meeting with the folks at the truss company next week to get the specs for the I-joists.
 
(https://i.imgur.com/GDtji7W.jpg)

Cross section of the girder supporting the load bearing wall between the bump out and the main cabin.  Questions:  1) Can I put the post on top of the footers for the stem wall as I have them in the picture - this is how my current house was built.  Do I need to attach the post to the stem wall? 2) Will the I-joists be sufficient to transfer the load from the wall to the girder or will I need to use squash blocks?  Or is that something the truss company should spec out for me?

(https://i.imgur.com/4iin4ju.jpg)

Cross section showing the two load bearing posts which transfer load from the second floor beams to a girder supported on two 16x16x8" footings.  I am a little confused on what needs to be done to transfer the load through the I-joist floor.  Can I just put a 6x6 directly under the post between the subfloor and girder? 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on July 31, 2018, 08:01:44 PM
...
Cross section showing the two load bearing posts which transfer load from the second floor beams to a girder supported on two 16x16x8" footings.  I am a little confused on what needs to be done to transfer the load through the I-joist floor.  Can I just put a 6x6 directly under the post between the subfloor and girder?

That seems a little squirrelly to me.  Not based on code or anything, it just seems to have too many hinge points.  One wasteful way to transfer the load is to sister several i-joists together. 

Another alternative might be to stack a second girder on top of the first.  For the i-joists that tie in there use hanging brackets.  Probably overkill but it seems a lot closer to code-compliant.  Something like this...

(https://i.imgur.com/th0qABI.png)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on August 01, 2018, 01:46:26 AM
The I joists at the girder are passing over a support, so all the way across the girder they need blocking between them, that is I think what is catching CT's eye. Then vertical grain, upright, blocks between girder and directly under the point loads from above, you can offset the roll blocking to let the squash blocks bear directly in line. To me those are squash blocks and are under every point load. From memory they are 1/8" longer than the I joist height, they take the point load. The I joist detail sheet will specify whether you need them at each joist around the perimeter, the rim board may be sufficient, ask for that while you're at the truss shop, they are generally online as well.

Web stiffeners are needed when there is load from above that you are accepting through the I joist. those are the pieces of ply attached to the webs, inside the flanges. The problem with just stacking I joists to take load is web crippling. Under significant load the webs begin to buckle into an S in section, so just like you see say on bridge I beams near supports you may need to locally stiffen the webs. Then as above, another way is to use squash blocks to bridge the load over and around the I joists.

That's a righteous snow load, you have planned this all out loadwise I hope.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on September 22, 2018, 03:06:51 PM
The county accepted our plans yesterday and issued our building permit!!!!  Just a piece of paper, but an exciting milestone after several years of planning.  This is finally happening!   :D

Contractors are lined up to put foundation (poured stem wall) and septic in, in the next few weeks.  Hopefully we can get those two projects done before the weather turns. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on October 10, 2018, 08:09:21 PM
We excavated for our foundation today; contractor should form and pour later this week.  Exciting to finally be breaking ground for the cabin!!  I was not sure if we were going to get this done before winter hit. 
(https://i.imgur.com/ObTpoHz.jpg)

I also mostly finished the exterior of the outhouse/shed.  The outhouse will just be for the next year or two until we get water hooked up and for in the winter when we don't want to turn the water on for short trips.  I took a 24" water pipe, cut perforations in the bottom 5 feet, and buried it vertically about 12'.  I cut the pipe off about an inch below the toilet seat.  Building the outhouse was my trial run for the cabin build - to make sure we liked the color/style of roofing and siding and learn how to do the window, door, metal roof, etc.  Made a handful of mistakes but glad they were made on the outhouse instead of the cabin!

(https://i.imgur.com/aV1mqVD.jpg)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on October 13, 2018, 05:19:09 AM
Poured our footings yesterday.  Stem wall will be formed and poured early next week.  I contracted the foundation work.  One note incase anyone ever compares this pictures to our floor plans....the two forms for the isolated piers are in the wrong location in these pictures.....oops!

Question:  Our loads will be almost entirely supported by the outside walls.  As you can see in the picture, there are three places where we will have load bearing posts supported by concrete piers inside the crawl space.  I was planning on doing dimensions similar to the footings - 16x16" and 8" deep.  Should I be making these deeper than 8"?
(https://i.imgur.com/fhAbdX6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LKaakAm.jpg)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on October 13, 2018, 06:34:33 AM
The IRC doesn't differentiate interior and exterior footings for a crawlspace foundation, so you should be good with the same dimensions as your exterior pour.

https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IRC2015/chapter-4-foundations

What's the load bearing value of your soil?
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on October 13, 2018, 12:48:09 PM
As CT was alluding to, the minimum size of the footing is load/ soil bearing capacity. The distance from the post or pier to the edge of the footing should not be greater than the footing thickness.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on October 16, 2018, 05:05:55 PM
Soil bearing capacity is 3,000 psf.  I decided to just wait and pour the pier next summer when I start the build.  I think I will play it safe and just make them a little larger than my exterior footings. 

Pulled the forms on the stem wall today.  Foundation turned out great.  I was really nervous that we were not going to get this done before weather hit but now we have 65 degree highs in the forecast for the next 10 days.  We are going to let the concrete cure for at least 7 days and then backfill. 

(https://i.imgur.com/5r1xH3a.jpg)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: MountainDon on October 17, 2018, 04:43:06 AM
 [cool]
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on October 17, 2018, 02:15:26 PM
Looking good  :)
Depending on soils and freeze it might be worth stacking straw inside over the footings.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on October 17, 2018, 04:04:38 PM
Don - so the idea would be to pile straw on top of the footings to insulate the soil under them so it would not freeze and uplift?  Our soils are well drained and most of the foundation is sitting on fractured rock (mid-sized excavator could not get through it).  I wasn't planning on doing anything but maybe straw would be cheap insurance. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: SouthernTier on October 18, 2018, 05:01:15 AM
I put my foundation about this time last year with actual work to start in spring.  I was worried about freezing (soils are not that well draining at my location).  I had the walls and the floor on, so I ended up buying the fiberglass batts I will be using in the walls ahead of time, and laid them on the (cement) floor.  I don't know if it helped or not but I didn't get any freeze cracks.  We had a couple of weeks with temps in the single digits, so I was glad I didn't take any chances.  I put an indoor/outdoor thermometer in the basement, with the "outdoor" sensor under the batts.  It typically was 5 to 8 degrees warmer under the batts than above.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on November 29, 2018, 06:05:47 PM
The property is covered in snow now.....time to switch from working on the ground to doing computer/paperwork to get ready for next summer's build. 

After talking with the Building Department, I decided to platform frame instead of balloon frame.  I will have 2x6 spaced 16" OC for my walls.  The second floor will be supported on 6x12 Douglas Fir exposed beams spaced 48" OC.  I have seen folks on this site do exposed beams a couple of different ways.  Can someone help me understand what I need to do in the space between the 48" spaced beams to transfer the load from the 2nd story walls to the first.  There will be a 2x12" rim joist, but what else do I need?  Do I add another 2x12 parallel between the beams or do I just add 12" tall vertical 2x6" under each of the studs?

Made a quick figure to show what I am talking about. 
(https://i.imgur.com/cmjpI7V.jpg)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on November 30, 2018, 06:10:30 PM
When I've done that the rim was also heavy timber, notched for the joists, the rim generally about an inch or two thicker than the frame wall to provide a step over the wall finish. It takes care of finishing out that area between joists. I'm not sure that I see any structural problems with what you have drawn but I think it will be a headache at finish and trim time. The floor typically goes on top of the joists before the second floor walls are framed but I have done what you drew to keep it out of the weather, think about the floor to gable end detail if you go that route though.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: azgreg on December 01, 2018, 07:01:11 AM
Hey Don, can he run cripple studs between the beams in line with the studs?
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on December 01, 2018, 06:23:00 PM
Sure. I've also just framed pockets for beams to drop into, then the top plate/sole plate for the floor above would run across the beam tops, no rim. This is a different situation but shows the idea sort of. There were a couple of spaced 2x6's to form posts under there then a stud ran up each side of the beams and were secured to the beams. I just have a single jack in at the time of that pic underneath the truss that's in place, then there was a spacer and the second jack to fill out the stud depth.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftimbertoolbox.com%2Fsketches%2Fkingpost1.jpg&hash=81229a1bf4700351bf4befb9bdaae874940622a4)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on December 04, 2018, 10:00:29 AM
Thanks for the info.  I am leaning toward just using small cripple studs to transfer the load but have all winter to mull it over some more.
 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on April 14, 2019, 07:35:20 AM
Need some help on an issue.  My 2nd floor will be built out of 2x6 T&G decking sitting on top of 6x12x20' beams spaced 48" OC.  All of the beams will be full span except for one to allow space for the stairs. The picture below only shows the beams I have a question about; there will be one 6x12 joist spanning about 8'.  This joist will have a load bearing post under it in the center and far right side in the picture.  My question is what is the best method to attach the ends of the joist to the full span beams and the end of the short beam to the joist?  Should I use a combination of 90 degree angle brackets as well as a couple bolts through the beam into the end of the joist or will one of those methods be sufficent? These will be exposed beams so I am planning on purchasing one of the commercially available brackets or having them fabricated locally.  Thanks for the help - 60 days away from starting our build!
(https://i.imgur.com/6rKLWzx.jpg)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on April 14, 2019, 03:45:26 PM
If the inspector will allow it and if you are ok with exposed steel... I've welded 3x3x1/4" angle with the "ears" inturned and a bottom pocket of angle. This is then predrilled for structural screws, mounted to the carrying beam and the joist is dropped into the "bucket". If you need more capacity than the screws can give a piece of angle can be welded to the top that hangs it onto the carrying beam. If you want a more hidden connection then a knife plate can run in a kerf in the center of the joist vertically, the knife plate is welded to a backing plate that screws to the carrying beam and there is a plate on the bottom to support the joist. Simpson makes this kind of thing as well. A concealed hanger is a CJT6 ~3425lb capacity. The exposed steel hanger might be one of their WM or WMU types, I'd give them a call if you go that route and let them help advise. strongtie.com

We may have already talked about it, have you checked headroom at the stair landing and top of stairs? Also check that window on the landing against the hazardous glazing section in chapter 3 of the IRC, that may need to be tempered.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on April 15, 2019, 03:15:52 PM
Thanks Don.  I found the Simpson connectors after I asked the question on the forum.  I have a meeting scheduled with our inspector later this week; will also ask them what they would like to see. 

Yes, I have spent a LOT of time mapping out the exact stair heights to meet code.  I ended up having to raise the height of my walls several inches to get the code clearance +6" at the landing.  During plan review our inspector said the window will have to be tempered.   
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on June 05, 2019, 05:22:21 PM
Finally got our septic system installed last week, ran the water line through the foundation, had a frost free hydrant put in and got most of the site leveling completed.

After a couple years of planning, I am taking almost a month off of work starting late next week to finally start building.  Appreciate everyone's help in getting me to this point!  Excited to finally start building.  I am going to put the floor in, frame the walls, install the beams for the 2nd floor and then turn it over to a contractor to install the trusses and complete the roof sheeting/metal.  I had planned on doing it all myself but with a 12/12 pitch roof and 200 pound trusses, I am happy with my decision.  Hopefully in a few weeks I will have a picture to post of me dancing a jig on our new floor!
(https://i.imgur.com/IL5APpB.jpg)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: MountainDon on June 06, 2019, 04:27:30 AM
 [cool]
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on June 06, 2019, 05:00:11 PM
Looking good. Don't forget it is easier to smooth the crawlspace floor and chuck out rocks before the floor goes on.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on June 29, 2019, 06:57:42 PM
Our cabin build is going great.  Last week my dad and I were able to complete the floor joist, subfloor, get the exterior walls up and get the first 8' of sheathing up.  I will post some pictures soon of our progress.  It has been a busy 8 days!

Through this planning process I was so focused on the structural elements that I never paid much attention to the process of framing the interior, non-bearing walls.  Stupid question - should I frame the first floor, interior, non-bearing walls now before I put the beams/2nd floor on or could I just wait and do all the interior walls after I get the cabin all dried in? 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: MountainDon on June 29, 2019, 07:48:39 PM
You can wait with the non-load bearing partitions.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Rys on June 30, 2019, 02:24:00 AM
Looking foward to seeing your progress photos!
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on July 03, 2019, 11:36:10 AM
I finally have a couple hours of down time to post some pictures of our build.  I will start at the beginning and catch up as I can. 

Last fall we had the foundation put in.  Earlier this spring the septic went in and some more leveling work was done. 

On June 15 my dad (retired, mid-60's) and I started building the structure.  My dad has quite a bit of building experience but I have only built decks, fences, sheds, etc. Our site is very remote and completely off grid, so we are spending the night on site whenever we can.  For the floor we used 14" tall I-joist with 20' and 26' span.  The 26' span is supported by a beam in the crawl space at the 20' mark.  Neither of us have worked with engineered wood at all but the floor system went up quick and easy.  Our only problem was the contractor made a mistake on the layout of the sill plates and we could not follow our original plan of 16" OC for the i-joist due to hitting anchor bolts.  We also made the mistake of not counting the lumber that was delivered to make sure we received what we ordered.....we found out the next day we were 3 I-joist short of a floor. 

(https://i.imgur.com/IL5APpB.jpg)

This is the foundation when we started.

(https://i.imgur.com/XicjBzj.jpg)

We poured a few footings in the crawl space and started laying out I-joists

(https://i.imgur.com/kQBR3HK.jpg)

Put the rim boards on and then put in squash blocks to support the load bearing walls and the second floor beams. 

(https://i.imgur.com/G0zun04.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/XcFa5qx.jpg)

And before long......it was time for the dance photo!

It took the two of us two full days of sun up to sun down work to get the joists, rim board and subfloor on.  Then another day of dinking around with crawl space access, securing all hangers, and tinkering around with a few other small things. 

(https://i.imgur.com/1d5AOxu.jpg)

The next day we spent on layout and then started framing up the walls.

(https://i.imgur.com/IaFcPje.jpg)

After about a year of mulling it over, I decided to put horizontal nailers every 2' in between the studs to nail our board and batten siding into.  We added the nailers while the walls were on the ground.  It was difficult and took over half a day.  Two friends came that evening and helped us lift the walls in less than 45 minutes.  I was worried if 3 or 4 of us would be able to lift the 2x6, 8 foot walls but it was not hard at all. 

  (https://i.imgur.com/S1s7oEZ.jpg)

The next day several more friends came and helped us frame and lift the other walls. 

(https://i.imgur.com/6KUH0OV.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/rhVF1A5.jpg)

By the end of the day we were able get the first level of sheathing on (7/16" OSB) and cut out the doors and the windows. 

When I have some more time I will post some pictures of our 6"x12"x20' beams going up and the 2x6 T&G decking going down. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: eemarty on July 06, 2019, 07:58:58 AM
It's so helpful and inspiring to see this process. Thanks for sharing!!
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on July 10, 2019, 04:14:57 PM
Well it has been about 25 days since we started our build.  Oh my gosh has it gone fast and am I tired!  We are getting close to being dried in (roof sheathing going on tomorrow) but I want to go back and post pictures in stages of what we did for the benefit of folks on the forum. 

So after we got the walls up and the first 8' of sheathing on, it was time to put up the big beams that support the second floor.  Last year we hired a mobile sawmill to come in and mill our own trees into 6"x12"x20' beams - Douglas Fir. 

First we had to wrestle the 350-400 pound beams up onto a friends flat bed trailer and drive them up the hill to our building site. 
(https://i.imgur.com/ToREbaf.jpg)

We left a 4' hole in the wall without framing so we could just back the trailer right up to the cabin and slide the beams off as they were ready.  We didn't want perfectly smooth and sanded beams but we wanted to nock some of the roughness off; so we hit them with a quick belt sander before we brought them into the cabin.  The beams were all milled to 6x12 and perfectly square, but after a year of drying the widths varied by about 1/2" and had some twists in them.  Luckily we milled 12 beams and only needed 9.  We had to notch them a bit to get them all the same depth while siting on the top plate of the wall. 

(https://i.imgur.com/1cuFgD0.jpg)

We rented a hand operated genie lift to lift the beams into place.  This lift worked great; all the kids took turns lifting a beam into place. 

(https://i.imgur.com/Ro5ulSP.jpg)

We used decorative simpson brackets to support the beams around the opening for the stairs.  They worked out great because they make brackets specifically for rough cut dimensions. 
(https://i.imgur.com/GVOtxG4.jpg)

We then framed small walls between each of the beams and along the entire gable ends to support the 2nd floor decking and then the pony wall that the trusses will sit on.  I must add.....not sure if this was the correct way to do this; had to kind of make it up on the fly that day. 

(https://i.imgur.com/jXhW8Rm.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/5OCNz8P.jpg?1)

When I get a chance I will post some pics of the 2x6 T&G floor going down.  The beams and floor look great!

Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on July 11, 2019, 10:21:38 AM
Looking great!  Also looking forward to seeing the T&G decking.

That hand-powered lift seems perfect for a lot of applications, particularly for someone off grid.  Yet another item to add to my Xmas list...  :)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on July 11, 2019, 07:25:07 PM
That lift was the best $120 rental fee I ever spent.  It is really heavy (close to 350 pounds I think), but it is built to collapse and tilt into the bed of a pickup truck for easy transportation and potentially can be moved/unloaded by only one person.  It made quick work of lifting the beams. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: NathanS on July 12, 2019, 02:53:22 AM
Looks awesome. That ceiling is going to add a lot of character to the house. Best part is that it's done - no drywall to hang and mud!  :D

Is all that extra blocking in the walls a seismic thing?
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on July 12, 2019, 03:15:21 PM
We then framed small walls between each of the beams and along the entire gable ends to support the 2nd floor decking and then the pony wall that the trusses will sit on.  I must add.....not sure if this was the correct way to do this; had to kind of make it up on the fly that day.

Just so this doesn't get copied in the future. The correct way to do that is to frame the walls to the height of the top of the beams and frame in pockets that the beams drop into. That avoids the weak hinge in the walls created by the short pony walls.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on July 13, 2019, 02:45:06 PM
Yes, good to capture that in this thread Don.  That was one of my mistakes/regrets - sure wish I would have just framed in pockets to put the beams in.  Not only would it have been structurally better but it would have also made it easier to manage the slight differences in depths of the beams and saved me about half a day of work.  Will add that to the ever growing list of lessons learned.....
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on July 13, 2019, 03:04:13 PM
For our 1st floor ceiling/2nd level flooring, we used 2x6 tongue and groove Douglas fir.  We used construction adhesive to glue the boards to the beams and used 3 1/2" nails with a nail gun - face nailed at the ends where walls would cover the nails and in the center we nailed into the tongue to hide the nails.  At the beginning we used a bar clamp for stubborn boards and as the distance got longer we switched to using large ratchet straps to pull the boards together; they worked well. 

(https://i.imgur.com/mmGxpbt.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/O0AXgoW.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/PIx66Aq.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/iWOI5eY.jpg)

It was slow getting started but once we got into the groove (no pun intended!) it went relatively quickly.  I am really pleased with the final product; especially how the ceiling looks.  I think the beams and ceiling will be the highlight of the cabin. 

There were two lessons learned on this step in our project:

1) Have a dedicated "glue person" to hand you the glue when you need it and then make sure the glue does not get on everything else.  Doing this really sped up our process.

2) Even though you buy "kiln dried" boards; you still need to let them dry.  We had our boards delivered about 10 days before installing them.  They set in pile outside in our very dry, 85 degree weather during those 10 days.  We were working sun up to sundown without stopping and I didn't take the time to put stickers between the rows in the stack and let them dry more.  We put the floor down and the joints were nice and tight.  Two days later the boards had dried in the sun and have opened up pretty large.  This was one of those things were I knew I was making a mistake as I was doing it, but I had all the people there to help and I only have so much time off of work. Oh well.....it will add to the rustic charm of the cabin. 

(https://i.imgur.com/zPrwc21.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/vKKxw6g.jpg)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on July 13, 2019, 03:09:04 PM
Oh, and I forgot to answer Nathan's question about why we have all the horizontal blocking in our walls.  After pondering it for the last year, I decided to put those in to nail our board and batten siding into so there would be more to hold the nails in place when the board try to cup.  They were a PAIN to put in; took me most of one day to put them in however I think it will be worth it when the siding boards don't pull out. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on July 14, 2019, 08:32:23 AM
This is how I like to do the bottom of B&B. a horizontal board with a 15 degree bevel to block the gaps between boards. The boards have a 15 degree cut on their bottoms, this is to direct any water that might get in the joint out. The battens run over all this down to the bottom of that horizontal board.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftimbertoolbox.com%2Fsketches%2FBnBskirt.jpg&hash=07490032a1d6c5487f7857eddc7a8af810979032)

When nailing B&B boards nail in their centers, if 2 nails are used put them in the center area spaced no wider than 4 or 5 inches apart to avoid splitting the boards as they shrink. Nail the battens through the gap between boards, again to avoid splitting the boards.

It's looking good, I wish we had Dougfir on this coast.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: OlJarhead on July 15, 2019, 04:00:09 PM
Looking good!

On 'Kiln Dried' wood:  Kiln's often dry to a specific target but that does not mean in your drier climate in the sun, the wood won't lose more moisture.  It's just the way wood is.  I have pine that is down to 5% and yet, it will still absorb and lose MC (moisture content) no matter what anyone says ;)  Wood Moves :D

It should be fine once you get a roof over it.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on July 16, 2019, 10:10:08 AM
Thanks Oljarhead.  Luckily we got our roof done last week; one day before our first major rain since we started building - planned that perfectly.....

Don - thank you for the advice on the bottom board of the siding; hand't thought of that but I plan on doing that now. 

I have a handful of questions:

I am using 1x12 boards and 1x3 battens; rough cut ponderosa pine that has been stickers and drying since last June.  My plan is to use two nails in the boards spaced about 4" apart, every 24" vertically.  For the battens I will just use one nail centered on the board every 24".  I plan on having about a 3/4" space between the boards.  Does that sounds like a good plan or any recommendations on changes? 

What type of nails should I use for the siding?  3 1/2" exterior galvanized ring shank?  That would give me 2" penetration for the boards and 1" for the battens.

My gable ends are 26' tall from ground to peak of the roof.  On those ends, at the start of the roof pitch, I want to put a horizontal board and then start a second level of board and batten above that.  Should I use a 2x board for the horizontal piece and then put flashing on top of that? 

Thank you for the help!

Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on July 16, 2019, 10:59:40 AM
This is my second post today; so don't miss the one above this where I have a few questions on siding. 

Finally have some down time to catch up on building progress photos.  After were got the 2nd floor decking on, I hired a contractor to put the trusses on and do the entire roof.  Hiring someone to do this was a hard pill for me to swallow, but in the end am glad I did. 

We have a 111 snow load and wanted a vaulted ceiling upstairs, so we had to use some hefty trusses.  We used parallel chord trusses with a 12/12 pitch.  They span the 20' width of the cabin and have 2' overhangs on each side.  The trusses are almost 13' wide when laying flat on the truck, so they took two pilot cars to transport.  I stressed out for a month on whether or not the truck would be able to deliver them down several miles of small logging roads, but luckily we had an experience and adventurous driver who didn't mind the challenge.  In a few places we only had 2" of clearance between 120 year old pine trees.

 (https://i.imgur.com/b69CuU0.jpg)

The trusses were delivered mid-morning and our contractors showed up shortly after.  I let them build the 2 1/2' pony walls so they could correct any errors in my dimensions (my walls may have been 20 1/2" wide.........).  They spent a lot of time getting the walls perfect and then started rolling trusses.  From start to finish it took them 70 minutes to put all the trusses up! 

(https://i.imgur.com/SzbjSBx.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Xn3rdpX.jpg)

The next day they framed the gable end walls and started working on the gable end overhangs.  We ordered our gable end trusses with a 5 1/2" drop to make it easier to frame the gable end overhangs. 

(https://i.imgur.com/2DjHrqj.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BRvYROe.jpg)

My design includes a 6x14' bump out that will be a mudroom/utility room.  It has always bugged me that the pitch of this roof will be slightly less than the main roof.  Once we got the trusses up, we started looking at the pitch and decided we could chop 7 1/2" off the mudroom wall and match the pitch of the trusses.  This will also allow us to use continuous sheets of metal on the roof.  It took a lot of time to make this modification but I am glad we did. 

(https://i.imgur.com/E601oKv.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/OZChrdk.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ktTBXJz.jpg)

At this point in the build my dad and I had about 18-19 full days of building in and 2 days of 5 contractors working.  During our 18 days of building, there were two days when we had a handful of other helpers to lift walls and beams.  These days do not count another weeks work of "logistics" days that it takes to buy supplies, food shop, move travel trailers around, and everything else it takes to build off grid.  Sometimes it feels like we spend half our time just preparing to sleep out there for a few days and make sure we have all the tools and supplies we need. 

The contractors worked for a total of 4 days and have the roof total done except for the metal and sheathed, wrapped and installed windows in the gable end walls.  Once our roof metal comes in they will come back and spend two days finishing the metal and soffits.  I will post pictures of the completed roof in the next few days. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: jsahara24 on July 17, 2019, 06:09:37 AM
Looking good!  I'm enjoying the updates. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on July 17, 2019, 07:58:48 AM
I agree, the pictures are awesome.  Thanks for sharing.

...
Once our roof metal comes in they will come back and spend two days finishing the metal and soffits.  I will post pictures of the completed roof in the next few days.
After my efforts to put standing seam metal on our 12x16 cabin wth a 12:12 pitch, I'm enthusuastically behind your decision to let the pros do that install.  Working on a roof that steep presents a lot of challenges, best left to those who have lots of experience working efficiently and safely.

As to what to finish your siding with, have you checked out the Forestry Forum?  A couple of products that get frequent mention in the Timber Frame board are:

https://www.permachink.com/

and

http://www.heritagenaturalfinishes.com/
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on July 17, 2019, 06:06:34 PM
That all sounds good on the siding. We're prepping red and white oak for B&B siding on a barn, I'm going to use deck screws for greater withdrawal strength, although it has been drying in the barn for almost 2 years oak has bodacious pulling strength. Dense woods move more with moisture cycling. We're just using borate on everything, they want the old weathered look but I want to at least keep the bugs at bay. One note on linseed oil, raw linseed oil never really dries. In my humid climate it attracts pollen and dirt then molds and turns black and gummy. Boiled linseed oil is either boiled, or has chemical driers added to it that polymerize it. It doesn't have those issues. It is probably less durable than the other finishes mentioned but is easily applied, labor is the big cost though rather than materials. Wood is always trying to reach equilibrium with the relative humidity of its surroundings, which is why we try to acclimate wood to its final environment for as long as possible, whenever possible. That is obviously a constantly moving target and moisture change is what causes dimensional change which is part of why finishes fail, the sun also drives moisture change by heating the wood and UV is another finish killer. A water repellant finish helps keep the moisture cycling band narrower than unfinished wood which helps preserve the wood, I don't win all discussions with clients obviously. If a moisture meter is hitting 5% on air dried material in the US its probably time for a better meter.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on July 19, 2019, 06:33:39 AM
Thanks for the help Don. 

Yes, I have not once regretted my decision to hire a contractor for the roof.  Those guys do this for a living and they were still not comfortable working on that roof; the 90+ temps that day did not help either. 

Ok, so here are my latest pictures to finally catch up with where we are now with our cabin build.

(https://i.imgur.com/jlgjZE7.jpg)

We used ice and snow shield along the lower edge of the roof and then Safeguard roof felt.  Our contractor specifically requested the Safeguard to make it easier/safer to work on the 12/12 pitch. 

After the roof sheathing and underlayment went on, they finished sheathing the upper walls, put the house wrap up and installed the three 2nd floor windows. 

(https://i.imgur.com/TuIXhqk.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Fw0lkpn.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/CJO5FN3.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/aWnRTZC.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/mOhZ6ZG.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/sGbHD2v.jpg)

We are putting standing seam metal roofing on but it will not be delivered for another week or two.  Using charcoal gray color for the roof.  The trim will fully enclose the trim board and the soffits will be vented SmartSoffit (24"x8' sheets of pre-primed OSB). 

We have 13 windows in the cabin; with 8 of them being 15 sqft or larger.  I found a smoking deal on Milgard and Jeld-Wen windows at our local lumber yard during their annual warehouse clean out sale.  Paid $25-40 per window for 15 windows.  I was only able to use 9 of them but I should be able to sell the windows I have left at enough profit to pay the difference for the windows I am buying new.  The only down side is I have been storing them in my shop for the last two years.  By the time I put the windows in I will have probably moved them 20+ times. 

Now I am taking a couple weeks off of building.  Had to go back to work after taking 4 weeks vacation (have been saving up for 3 years...), let the body rest, and try to maintain my marriage/family!  Later this summer I will put the rest of the windows in, get the siding up and finish the interior stairs.  After that, I will be out of funds for the year and put the rest off until next summer. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: NathanS on July 19, 2019, 08:44:03 AM
Your place looks great.

For what it's worth, I used TWP stain which is a penetrating stain. From when I did my homework it seemed very highly regarded by the pros, of course there is some regional availability that plays into it. We ordered it online. I am happy with it, and when recoating just a light bleach solution spray down that takes maybe 30 minutes for the whole house, and then recoat. I dipped every board and coated every cut.

I'd also say more important than any finish is to never put siding tight up against a wall that has insulation in it. It's basically a simulated ground contact environment - people often mistakenly blame paint peeling/bubbling failures on the paint itself, when it is really the insulation causing the problem. If there are budget constraints, I would do a rain screen and then either let it weather naturally or stain the exposed side in a few years.


Rough sawn you will get a lot of absorbency once the wood is dry. The planed side on our siding needed 1-2 yrs of UV beating on it to really become absorbent, and I have started restaining with the hope that I will now get 5-7 years per coat, possibly only 3-4 on the south side which takes major UV beating.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on July 23, 2019, 02:43:55 PM
Taking a couple weeks off from building to catch up with the rest of life.  That was not a hard decision when looking at the forecast in the high 90's.  I went out for a morning this weekend and moved all of our board and batten siding from where we had it milled to the cabin site.  I beat the heat and got there at sunrise - it was 37 when I started and 90 when I finished.  Our pine siding dried well; can't wait to see it up.  It is kind of like firewood, by the time I put it up I will have handled each piece about 20 times. 

(https://i.imgur.com/PlCiGss.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/0TNdZ1J.jpg)

The house wrap is all on and the second floor windows are in.  Heading out for a quick trip tomorrow evening to install all the hurricane ties.

 (https://i.imgur.com/abVA8wY.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/RUnk4Mr.jpg)

I did take a little time to put some more of the finishing touches on the outhouse. Took this picture before I installed the vent pipe. Two years ago I salvaged a bunch of old boards out of a burn pile; have been waiting to find a good use for them.  I am going to do all the interior trim in white.  Looks pretty cool against the old barn wood. 

(https://i.imgur.com/cFkajXC.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/KlQr8Zu.jpg)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on September 18, 2019, 06:21:05 PM
Well I have been very delinquent in posting updates on our build.  I took most of July off from working on the cabin build to catch up on work and life.  In early August we got back to it and put the house wrap on, windows/doors in and then started on the siding. 

We milled our own ponderosa pine logs last year for the board and batten siding - 1x12" and 1x3" boards.  We attached the boards with 3 1/4" galvanized nails, nailed into 2x6 horizontal nailers that we installed in the interior framing.  I used a palm sander to quickly take some of the roughness off the boards and clean off the sawdust from when they were milled.  It took a lot more time than I thought it would to get all of the siding and trim put up.  Putting up and leveling the boards while >20' up on an extension ladder was slow and cumbersome, but I really like how it turned out. 

While we were putting up the siding, the contractor we hired for the roof came back and finished the metal on the roof.  I decided to spend a little extra and use the raised seam, hidden fastener metal for the roof - it looks really nice and will shed snow well. 

After the siding was up, soffits were done and metal was on the roof, I started staining the siding.  I ended up using SuperDeck semi-transparent stain in the "Valley" color which has a brown tint to it.  After taping the windows, soffits/roof trim, and doors I sprayed the stain on with a pump herbicide sprayer. 

Here are some pictures of where I am at with the project now; I have one side left to stain this weekend. 

(https://i.imgur.com/JsjXxaN.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/bzjs6W6.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/OQoQdMd.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/aCibCzG.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/wBZpoN2.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/wTFhXsN.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/MlUfI1M.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/29xjQyt.jpg)

And finally, the view looking out our big picture window.  Looks a little odd but we limbed up the fir tree 35' to improve the view from the other windows.

(https://i.imgur.com/sGlyVuW.jpg)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: MountainDon on September 18, 2019, 06:25:10 PM
Siding and all looks very nice. 
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on October 08, 2019, 06:44:21 PM
I am looking for some advice on how best to support the roof over my attached deck.  The roof and deck will be supported on one end by girders that I built into the side of the cabin (see photo below).  I plan on supporting the other end of the deck by pouring concrete footings and piers - probably using sonotubes.  I would like to use 6x6 Douglas fir post that we already have to support the roof over the deck. 

My question is - what is the best design for supporting the deck and the roof.  Should I build the deck first and then put the posts for the roof on top of that; similar to platform framing.  Or should I use a continuous post that goes all the way from the pier to the roof; and if so then how do I support the load of the deck. 

(https://i.imgur.com/OQoQdMd.jpg)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: jsahara24 on October 09, 2019, 04:16:58 AM
I want to start of with saying your place is looking great.  Love the board and batten and overall look.  Great job.

Here is what I came up with in the exact same situation for my place, not sure its the best approach but it made the most sense to me.   I used footers/sonotubes and set the top of the concrete pier at the bottom elevation of the joists beam.  Then I put my 6x6 post on top of the pier and ran that up to the roof, and set my outer girder/beam directly on the concrete and tied it into the post.  So I have the post bearing directly on the pier, along with the outer beam bearing directly on the concrete.  Let me know if that makes sense. 

Good luck and keep the pictures coming!
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: waggin on November 21, 2019, 10:25:07 AM
Beautiful setting and a great build!  Looking forward to seeing how you finish the inside.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: OlJarhead on February 06, 2020, 04:41:41 AM
Great build!
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on February 06, 2020, 07:52:26 PM
Thanks OlJarhead.  I skied into the cabin a couple weeks ago to see how the roof was shedding snow.  Can't wait for spring to come so I can get started on plumbing and electrical.
(https://i.imgur.com/oZyx59y.jpg)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on April 19, 2020, 05:02:19 PM
I need some advice on how to proceed.....

Last fall we finished the exterior of the cabin but ran out of funds and time to finish the inside.  My plan for this summer is to do the plumbing, electric, insulation, wood stove, etc. and then do all the finish work the following year.  I plan on having a contractor do the insulation and was going to have them put down a vapor barrier at the same time they do the underfloor insulation.  Our foundation is a stem wall/crawl space with 6 air vents.

The snow has mostly melted and I am finally able to get into the property again.  I went into the crawl space today for the first time since last fall to start planning the plumbing.  I pulled up the crawl space access and YIKES!  The bottom of the door was all covered in mold.  I went down in the crawlspace and the floor is covered in places with a thin layer of white mold and there is mold growing on the floor joists.  There is no water in the crawlspace, no sign of water pooling or coming in, and soil is "dry".  I suspect this is just water vapor coming up from the ground and since the vents were blocked with snow up until a week ago the mold just grew over the winter/early spring from humid, stagnant air.

Any advice on how I should proceed?  I will get the crawlspace all dried out, but do I need to treat the mold before insulating?  Do you think this is just due to vapor coming up from the ground?  By code we have to instal a radon vent that is a 4" pipe from below the vapor barrier straight up through the roof like a sewer vent; hopefully that will help with some airflow in the winter.  We are in a very dry climate and the soil that our cabin is built on is well drained but we do have a hill that slopes down to the cabin.  We also receive an insane amount of snow that piles up over the winter as the roof sheds snow.   

Below is a picture of the underside of our crawl space access door (mold was the worst here) and a pictures of one of the I-joists with mold growing on it.   

(https://i.imgur.com/qIKYWbR.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/56nHEI1.jpg)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: Don_P on April 20, 2020, 04:52:30 AM
A 10% Clorox wipedown wouldn't be a bad thing, wear a respirator and glasses/goggles. There has to be a vapor barrier on the ground, tape the seams and mastic it to the walls. I've gotten to where I really prefer to pour a thin "rat slab" whenever I can talk the client into it, it solves lots of problems down the road. The plastic whenever I go back into one is almost always compromised from traffic. If that doesn't get it under control I seal it up and stick a dehumidifier under there with a drain outside.

The worst one I've run into was by a river and creek inlet so humid. The floor was insulated with batts that came down about 2/3 of the joist depth, trashed plastic poorly installed on the poorly graded soil, pools of water on the plastic, AC in the house. I could pinch through the rotten joists below the insulation, the center girder row was rotten. When I lifted the insulation the joists were as new. The exposed wood was hitting dew point often and got into the rot zone. That was basically a rebuild from underneath, regrade, exterior drainage, new plastic and a DH. Don't ignore it.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: handyman on April 20, 2020, 06:29:28 AM
You need more vents under the building.  My 20 x 30 started to mold before I cut in vents, then it dried out.
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: GaryT on April 20, 2020, 08:43:53 AM
In some localities, vents aren't code in a crawl space.  Needs to become an insulated, conditioned space.   I've been in some gawd awful vented crawl spaces where insulation was literally dripping from the floor joists.
Gary
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: CabinNick on June 30, 2020, 07:14:47 PM
Thanks for all the advice on my mold situation.  I think it was caused by a combination of me waiting over the winter before putting down the vapor barrier, waiting over the winter until finishing the final grading away from the cabin, and a problem I think we have with snow deflecting rain run off towards the cabin in the spring.  We get an ton of snow that all slides off the roof and piles up. The overhang and tall roof throw the snow out far.  Then in the spring when it starts to rain, that pile of snow that remains sends all the spring run off directly toward the cabin. 

I spoke to many folks about the mold issue, including a mold remediation contractor.  One extreme of advice was don't worry about it, just spray it with bleach.  The other extreme was pretty much what I ended up doing.  I used all the PPE - respirator with correct filter, googles, suit and gloves.  I waited until the crawl space had fully dried out, then I scraped all of the wood surfaces (yes, every inch of 27 I-joists and underside of subfloor) with a stiff bristle and wire brush to break up the mold accumulations and drop the spores down into the dirt.  I then put down the vapor barrier over the dirt floor and ran it along the walls using butyl tape to secure the vapor barrier to the walls about 6" under the sill plate.  I also taped all seams with a crawl space seam tape.  This weekend I am renting a fogger and will fog the entire space with Concrobium which supposedly should kill the spores and prevent future mold growth.  Scraping that crawl space was absolutely miserable in all that gear, but I wanted to do it right so I didn't always worry about it after I insulate.  Quote from a mold expert to do the work was over $3k.  After purchasing all the gear, equipment rental, chemical and vapor barrier materials I think I have about $500 into the project.  Later this summer (it won't rain here for at least two months now) I am going to install a french drain along the sides of the cabin and finish the final grading.  Next time.....I will do all of this just after I finish the build!

Here is a picture of me in all the gear.  I have been joking that I look like I am going to Walmart in the middle of a COVID-19 pandemic. 

(https://i.imgur.com/iopQ4Pl.jpg)
Title: Re: NE Oregon 20 x 30+ 1.5 story
Post by: MountainDon on July 01, 2020, 09:16:21 AM
That was the hard route but probably the best.

Templates: 3: Ads (default), Portal (default), Printpage (default).
Sub templates: 4: init, print_above, main, print_below.
Language files: 3: SPortal.english (default), index+Modifications.english (default), Ads.english (default).
Style sheets: 1: portal (default).
Files included: 30 - 877KB. (show)
Cache hits: 9: 0.00189s for 35,230 bytes (show)
Queries used: 12.

[Show Queries]