Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)

Started by Oljarhead, September 21, 2009, 02:53:09 PM

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OlJarhead

We got to logging this weekend :)

The road was narrow and the logs down a bank and about 200 feet from the Jeep...it was a challenge!


We didn't have a snatch block so improvised...it worked more or less.


Down there somewhere...


Josh chokin a log


Had to roll them onto a path on the way up.


But rigged up like this we could drag those logs up out of any hole :)  Though we later put the chains on the rear too since we had plans to go down the hill and up and down another...Going uphill with the chains up front is always a breeze and with 4+ inches of solid ice our neighbors couldn't even get past the fork in the road a mile back...but we just crawled right on up as if it was a nice warm sunny day :D


Josh rolling logs on the landing.

What surprised me the most was that the 8000lbs winch had trouble with the logs at times but the jeep just yanked them right up the bank once they were free of obstacles!  Wow!  Go Jeep!

OlJarhead

Quote from: MountainDon on January 20, 2011, 02:37:20 PM
Yes, I remember reading that years ago. Here's my take on 4WD and chains.

If there are tracks to follow and the snow is not real deep, no drop offs to fear and the like, then rear only works and the front steers okay in the tracks. If there is a need to turn out of the tracks, that could be troublesome.

Braking with chains on the front is excellent, no doubt there. That's why we have vehicles with discs on the front and drums in the rear. However traveling around curves or going downhill, in a forward direction, can be very exciting when the front (with chains), brakes and grips okay but the rear wheels (no chains) lock and slide causing the rear to come around. That probably won't happen if there are tracks/ruts, but on ice my personal experience was way too exciting to want to repeat. Rear breakaway will not always happen and front only does get you through a lot. I used to do that at times too. But after that one time; not again. If the snow is deep enough to drag the diffs then all 4 wheels with chains id preferred, IMO.

Conversely, when going uphill in a forward direction, chains on the front do nothing to improve motive traction at the rear. The front end becomes light on a steep grade and without rear chains the rear do not get traction and slip.  Even lockers don't help that. On flat or not very steep roads there is probably less of an issue. Maybe I have traveled on too many steep grades and have thus encountered more issues. Even in dry weather that last hill going up to our place can not be climbed in a front drive (front drive only car) without a run at it, as front wheel slippage occurs.

If a person has only one set of chains he should not have a 4x4. Harsh as it may be, that's my opinion.

Wet skid pan tests on street tires are where I got the info on worn street tires on the rear, and new on the front, of front drive cars. No link, it was in print years ago.



Fast vs slow perhaps?  I was once crossing a parking lot at over 50MPH in the mini behind the little race car.  I had made the mistake of putting Dunlop race tires on the front only (because we didn't have enough wheel lugs for the back) and hadn't considered the implication of sticky vs not sticky in a high speed weight shift...I soon found out!

As I made to dodge a cone in the center of the Autocross course the rear lifted as per usual only this time it swapped ends with the front!  At 50+ I twitched the wheel and stuck it through the cones right side front and kept going but learned a lesson I'll never forget ;)

However, High Speed driving isn't comparable in anyway to low speed crawling.

Granted, you're a master of the off-roading compared to me I'm sure, however I'll stick with my rule:  Chains on the uphill side when not using on all four but all four is always better then any two.

As a side note, my neighbor that has lived in our hills for the last 30 years came by today...he's driven this icy treacherous roads 5-6 days a week since 1979...and he has chains on the front only when going up the hill.... ;)


rick91351

Thumbs up MD and echos my experience especially the part  'Braking with chains on the front is excellent.'  Opps!!  Some times to good.

Quote from: MountainDon on January 20, 2011, 02:37:20 PM

Braking with chains on the front is excellent, no doubt there. That's why we have vehicles with discs on the front and drums in the rear. However traveling around curves or going downhill, in a forward direction, can be very exciting when the front (with chains), brakes and grips okay but the rear wheels (no chains) lock and slide causing the rear to come around. That probably won't happen if there are tracks/ruts, but on ice my personal experience was way too exciting to want to repeat. Rear breakaway will not always happen and front only does get you through a lot. I used to do that at times too. But after that one time; not again. If the snow is deep enough to drag the diffs then all 4 wheels with chains id preferred, IMO.

If a person has only one set of chains he should not have a 4x4. Harsh as it may be, that's my opinion.


Jarhead wrote As a side note, my neighbor that has lived in our hills for the last 30 years came by today...he's driven this icy treacherous roads 5-6 days a week since 1979...and he has chains on the front only when going up the hill....

I also agree with this as well to a certain point.  It works good as Don says on flat and not very steep roads.  By this a normal maintained mountain road or grade should not affect front traction all that much.  But a good case in point when you are climbing some of those washed out steep roads in the summer time have you noticed as soon as the rear wheels break loose you are done?  The front end can be spinning and jumping rock to rock and so long as the rear end has a bite you keep progressing.  In the wetter / slicker seasons that rule sort of compounds itself and things sure don't have to be as steep or tough doing to halt the wheels of progress.

Then there is the other point here, your neighbor as you say drives this same road and has for 30 years, 5 - 6 days a week.  With that experience he knows what works for him and his vehicle or vehicles.  Same as where my ranch is at.  Those guys drive in and out of that area all the time in the winter.  They know where to chain up and drop their chains when they have to.  They also can do it so fast that they are chained up and going while I am untangling mine.  I do not have and certainly do not expect to have the same skill level much less luck as they do, doing it twenty-four / seven.  Spring, summer and fall it is pretty much a wash, we all travel about the same.  Winter time they shine.             
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

OlJarhead

I can see very steep grades being a problem if the front end is lifting due to excessive grades but I find it takes VERY excessive grades to do this.  Our 'mountain road' has grades way beyond anything you'd ever see on the road (one stretch rises about 50 feet in 300 - over 16%) and at no time does the front end lose traction due to grade.

However, I don't have a desire to turn my cabin thread into a dispute over winter driving, I'll let the experts at Winter Driving Schools to do that as I'd like to get back to building my cabin.

Erik

rick91351

Looking at your logs!  So what are you going to do with the logs?  Boards or ???   How many do you have to get out and are they all in places like that?  That is sure a lot of work and can be somewhat dangerous but with a little caution.....  It is sure a lot nicer to have someone to work with doing that, and being able to work together rather than doing all the grunt work yourself.  It seems we never have time or the day light in the winter to get much done as we drag our cabin out over winter.  (Fifth-wheel)  And it is a minimum of another hour going and come in the winter time no matter how we go.  It must be nice to have your place where you can go now year around now.  Well some day maybe we will be so lucky!  

Did you find it a lot easier skidding them out in the winter with the frozen ground and snow than summer?  I always worry about fires in the summer time when we do that so winter to me would definitely be the best just from that alone.  In the summer most the time I will in fact go back in the evening and look things over most of the time.  I have never found anything but I figure an oz. of prevention is always worth a lb. of cure.  And it always give me chance to go on a four-wheeler ride.  This summer I really don't see us logging much at all unless we decide to thin some more and get in to some bigger trees.


       
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.


rick91351

Quote from: OlJarhead on January 24, 2011, 09:51:13 AM
I can see very steep grades being a problem if the front end is lifting due to excessive grades but I find it takes VERY excessive grades to do this.  Our 'mountain road' has grades way beyond anything you'd ever see on the road (one stretch rises about 50 feet in 300 - over 16%) and at no time does the front end lose traction due to grade.

However, I don't have a desire to turn my cabin thread into a dispute over winter driving, I'll let the experts at Winter Driving Schools to do that as I'd like to get back to building my cabin.

Erik

Agreed and offer an apology if you took my post as such.  Sure never intended it to!  I also sent you another post right after that back on topic.  ;D    I also agree that sometimes this forum is worse than some others does sort of side bar out into other areas rather than staying on topic.  (One reason I found it so interesting.)  Sorry will watch that in the future. 
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

OlJarhead

Quote from: rick91351 on January 24, 2011, 10:24:15 AM
Looking at your logs!  So what are you going to do with the logs?  Boards or ???   How many do you have to get out and are they all in places like that?  That is sure a lot of work and can be somewhat dangerous but with a little caution.....  It is sure a lot nicer to have someone to work with doing that, and being able to work together rather than doing all the grunt work yourself.  It seems we never have time or the day light in the winter to get much done as we drag our cabin out over winter.  (Fifth-wheel)  And it is a minimum of another hour going and come in the winter time no matter how we go.  It must be nice to have your place where you can go now year around now.  Well some day maybe we will be so lucky!  

Did you find it a lot easier skidding them out in the winter with the frozen ground and snow than summer?  I always worry about fires in the summer time when we do that so winter to me would definitely be the best just from that alone.  In the summer most the time I will in fact go back in the evening and look things over most of the time.  I have never found anything but I figure an oz. of prevention is always worth a lb. of cure.  And it always give me chance to go on a four-wheeler ride.  This summer I really don't see us logging much at all unless we decide to thin some more and get in to some bigger trees.


       

The logs will be milled into lumber.  First about 2000 board feet of interior paneling and then siding/batting and finally, structural :)

Skidding them in the snow was actually very easy and with the ground frozen I'd say easier then in the summer -- during the summer I skidded 3 logs down from up top of our hill and while it was also easy (the jeep has plenty of pulling power) I'd say winter is the best time to do it this way.

We have a mixed bag of locations to bring logs in from and will have to winch them from lower portions of the property again - however I suspect a block and tackle/snatch block would make that much easier -- the thing I found the hardest was that dragging the logs with the winch seemed to double or triple their weight!  Once they were behind the jeep though, it was like pulling a sled :)

OlJarhead

Quote from: rick91351 on January 24, 2011, 10:45:57 AM
Quote from: OlJarhead on January 24, 2011, 09:51:13 AM
I can see very steep grades being a problem if the front end is lifting due to excessive grades but I find it takes VERY excessive grades to do this.  Our 'mountain road' has grades way beyond anything you'd ever see on the road (one stretch rises about 50 feet in 300 - over 16%) and at no time does the front end lose traction due to grade.

However, I don't have a desire to turn my cabin thread into a dispute over winter driving, I'll let the experts at Winter Driving Schools to do that as I'd like to get back to building my cabin.

Erik


Agreed and offer an apology if you took my post as such.  Sure never intended it to!  I also sent you another post right after that back on topic.  ;D    I also agree that sometimes this forum is worse than some others does sort of side bar out into other areas rather than staying on topic.  (One reason I found it so interesting.)  Sorry will watch that in the future. 

Not required :)  Internet forums are often hard to catch mood/intent/emotion and I'm certain that neither you or Don meant anything other then to be helpful :)  And I appreciate it.

Alberta Curt

Great setup!!  Looks good.  Are there not any issues with storing your batteries for the solar indoors?  I eas under the impression they had to be outside to prevent hydrogen buildup.

Alberta


OlJarhead

Quote from: Alberta Curt on January 27, 2011, 09:48:55 AM
Great setup!!  Looks good.  Are there not any issues with storing your batteries for the solar indoors?  I eas under the impression they had to be outside to prevent hydrogen buildup.

Alberta

I asked an EE buddy of mine this question and his response was that as long as the batteries were not being equalized they would not exhaust hydrogen or something like that.  However, I intend to enclose the batteries completely and provide venting from them so that when they vent it's to the outside rather then inside.

The idea for putting them in the porch stemmed from the need to keep them warm in sub zero weather.  Batteries lose their ability to deliver power by something like 50% at freezing...more at 30 below :D  And at our cabin it can get THAT cold easily.  So I built the porch to provide a solar heated storage place for the solar power components and batteries :)  The FREE aluminum windows do this perfectly!  At 32 outside it will be 60+ inside during the day.

Erik

OlJarhead

http://www.woodmizer.com/us/Products/ManualSawmills/LT10PortableSawmill.aspx

I'm dreaming too much lately :)  Getting my quote today!  I hope to order within the next couple weeks....

considerations

Wow, thats a spiffy saw.  I'll be hiring someone to make the siding for this place.  There are several folks in the area with "home mill" set ups.  This is, after all, logging country.

JavaMan

Very nice Jarhead!

I miss getting up to my place... so I'm vicariously enjoying the trips to yours  ;)  I won't be able to get up to mine until the snow goes out.  I should measure the grade on some of the road in to my place, but there was one section of that first video that the road had drops off the side similar to my road in.

Good job on the logging.  I misses a deal on a bandsaw mill two years ago that I still kick myself for. $750, and all it would have taken was a drive to Boise to pick up.

My Alaskan will have to to for now.

OlJarhead

Making Sawdust!  We set off to the cabin bright an early (after I had 2 hours of sleep from work) on Friday and started milling lumber Saturday by 11am :)  We milled 22 1x10's (ok actually 3/4x9's) and thoroughly enjoyed the weekend :)

I made my son do most of the hard work as my back was thrown out at work a week ago but I still managed to pitch in all weekend :)


Josh is getting proficient at this game :)


And the boards just kept coming off the logs :)  Takes about 4 minutes per board but a lot of set up time!


We laid out a few of the boards we'd milled and took this picture to get an idea what the walls might look like :)  Man are we happy!  WHOOHOO!  But we're not thinking of using the 'Blue Stained' pine for the floor and the unstained pine for the walls....unless of course drying turns it all blue!


I just can't help but be excited!  I LOVE pine!


The Blue Stain is quite artistic!


More close ups of the Blue Stained Pine.


My wife insisted:)


And so I insisted :D


Darci (my wife) brought rugs up and began making the cabin more 'homey'  we love it when she joins us up there!


OlJarhead

It's amazing really, but after 18 months of working on our cabin in the woods I'm still planning the next trip and next things to do!  I can't wait to get back and have begun to wonder if maybe there's a calling there?

Anyway, our next trip should involve finishing the electrical installation and doing some drywall work but with luck I'll have some other bodies and we might get some wood chopping done too :)  That's always needed in the winter.

Then, depending on bodies etc, we may also try to mill a log or two.  I'd like to get at least twice what I have done now by mid month (Feb) if possible but I can see it's going to be later most likely.

It's also obvious that I need to get the new mill ordered!  Once all the interior and exterior finish wood is milled then we will try to mill a ton of structural lumber to dry for future projects.

Erik

MountainDon

Do you get a lot of sawdust?


Good to see you're up there. I think we're going up this coming weekend. By the looks of the forcast we'll have more snow.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

OlJarhead

Quote from: MountainDon on January 31, 2011, 08:43:21 PM
Do you get a lot of sawdust?


Good to see you're up there. I think we're going up this coming weekend. By the looks of the forcast we'll have more snow.

Tons of it!  9 boards out of one log gives us 8'x1/4"x 9 1/2" of sawdust per pass!  So about 11 times that...or shovel loads!  My wife used it to spread on the ice to make walking safer and the covering on the ground (you can see it in the picture) after taking much away for traction on the ice was still about 3-4" deep in places.  I'm looking for ways to use the sawdust :)

We are ordering a bandsaw soon so I figure less waste (less sawdust) but still figure we'll have more then we know what to do with.

nathan.principe

A fun little project for the saw dust could be making fire starters.  Cut the bottoms off a paper egg carton to get 12 "paper cups" fill with the saw dust and pour melted wax over the exposed top to seal it, this will burn a pretty big flame for about 10mins, great for starting camp fires

MountainDon

Scatter it about and it will disappear.


Pine needles (dry) make great fire starter. That all we use. I have a 30 gallon plastic drum that I refill every year when they're good and dry; June before the rains is a good time to collect here.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

Redoverfarm

Pine knots are my choice if I can find them.  Years ago they used to soak corn cobs in Kerosene and then allow them to dry for fire starters.  But I usually don't need but a couple all year.  My fire has only gone out once since Mid October.


MountainDon

Quote from: Redoverfarm on January 31, 2011, 10:02:38 PM
My fire has only gone out once since Mid October.

That's when you know it is winter!   ;)
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

nathan.principe

Pine needles is a good idea! I will have to collect some from my cabin for fires out there.  Here in Dallas pine trees are pretty scarce since our soil is not conducive for them.  When I have fires at my house here in the city, indoors, I use the starters I mentioned above with either saw dust or dryer lint in them.  I make 2 dozen at a time and theyll last me quite some time

nathan.principe

Quote from: Redoverfarm on January 31, 2011, 10:02:38 PM
  My fire has only gone out once since Mid October.

it was about 65 today here in Dallas ;D

OlJarhead

We currently use drier lint for starting fires -- amazing stuff!  Just save it and use a handful even in the dampest conditions!  Don't need matches either, just a flint and steel :)

I've read on the forestry forum I go to (or somewhere else perhaps) that using pine sawdust and wax is an option the same way you just described it (hmmmm)....have to try that.

Also read (off topic here) that drier lint and wax in a tuna can makes a good sterno type stove :)

OlJarhead

Ordered the WoodMizer LT10!  :D  I CAN NOT WAIT!  [cool] c* ;D :)

After milling 100 board feet of pine for the cabin last weekend I've got the bug big big time!  I want to mill 50 board feet, or  1000 board feet in a weekend!!!

Then I want to finish this cabin and mill the lumber for the next one -- all of it!

I'm totally stoked :)