John and I have been developing some dogtrot designs and we would like your comments and suggestions. There are two designs here, one is 16x30 with two small cabin bedrooms, a full bath and kitchen and a large central dogtrot that could be open to the elements or enclosed with glass doors. The second design is 18x36 with a small cabin bedroom and a larger master bedroom. We also are developing a 20x36 with variations that will have two full sized bedrooms. John and I would appreciate your comments and suggestions. More detailed plans and elevations can be found on the PlanHelp website at the following address:
http://www.planhelp.com/public/programs/downloadsearch.cfm?searchtype=simple&searchmode=cat&keywords=recent&sortby=name&cat=3DHA%20Plans
The 1630 DOGTROT
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/1630.jpg)
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/1630back.jpg)
The 1836 DOGTROT
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/1836clean-1.jpg)
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/1836front.jpg)
I would like to see second bath , living-room added on kitchen side and kitchen moved to north side of house for winter heating , taller ceiling for cooling ,provision for hot tub in dogtrot , covered front porch on south side ,living space around 1000 sq ft without counting dogtrot , doors that offer theft protection for the dogtrot and plan for harvesting rain water. ;)
Slow2run: At this time we can only provide that model in HOT PINK or CHARTREUSE. Please specify your color choice and we can ship it out today by UPS. ;) ;)
Mark, I like your work so far.
I've been toying with a warm climate design that has a wider un-floored breezeway for possible auto parking. Back wall is wrought-iron grillage with bug screen. The front wall includes lockable garage door ... or perhaps swinging wrought-iron barn doors. A walkway would be provided connecting the two living areas around the parking area ... perhaps of (shallow) decking.
I'm unfamiliar with the dogtrot design. Is it to allow ventilation?
Is the dogtrot for more temperate climates? In northern climates we survived summer
months on the front screen porch.
With no living room where does the actual living take place?
Are the dogtrot doors open during the day and then closed in the evening? Are the door
openings screen?
I think it would be a great design for a pool house.
Dog trots are pretty well known in the country south--or mid-south.
And a pretty easy way to add on to a log cabin.
I'd hate to have that house in the city. But here it would be fine.
Bayviewps: Dogtrots are primarily a southern united states house form. Traditionally they had one room on each side of the open dogtrot. One room was for sleeping and the other was usually a kitchen living space. The open dogtrot was used as a communal sitting, dining, work space. It was shady and cool and provided natural ventilation if the house was oriented to the prevailing wind. Usually the dogtrot was open at both ends. As the years went by, many dogtrots were enclosed and made into more formal interior spaces. Some dogtrots were also built as two story structures.
My design is meant to be enclosed with doors, which of course could be fitted with screens for summer use. In colder climates, the doors at each end could be closed and the whole place heated with a wood stove in the dogtrot. In the larger 20x36 version, John and I are developing now, there is provision for a small utility closet for a furnace. Of course you could just leave the dogtrot wide open in the traditional manner and it can of course be as wide as you like.
The dogtrot is certainly not a particularly practical design for urban life, but is ideal for rural areas, particularly those with hot tropical climates.
Heres a few historical examples:
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/dogtrot.gif)
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/dogtrot.jpg)
A two story dogtrot:
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/krenn313.jpg)
Another two story with the dogtrot enclosed for more space:
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/smharris15.jpg)
Mark, sorry Ive been sick ;D
Mark,I like the Dogtrot design its center breezeway offers passive summer cooling for the Dogtrot and side rooms without using electricity , as long as the house is oriented North and South to catch the prevailing winds .With the East Texas summer lasting from April to October and the hight cost of electricity, passive cooling can help me keep some of my money in the bank.
I view the Dogtrot the way it was originally used before electricity here in Texas , a year round patio, green house and recreation area ,used from grilling to bathing (hot tub), visiting family members ,neighbors or Texas Rangers on patrol would sleep in the Dogtrot.
I think if the Dogtrot was designed to have glass walls between it and the kitchen/livening room and windows for sun light in its roof you could have a year -round tropical garden ,at bed time just walk through the garden to your bed room or jump in hot tub first,in the cold months just close off the ends of Dogtrot with hard doors in summer use screen doors
So how much money would passive cooling save? Do i want an tropical garden/ hot tub between my living room and bedroom this winter? What do you want a two or three bed room house to look like ,can it have most of the bells/whistles?
Can it be design for all 50 states ? How should it be designed ?Who wants to design this house,what will it cost to buld? If you want to live in this type of house how would you design it
Interesting design.
There seems to be a lot of traffic in the open area.
May I suggest slightly changing the design, allowing more wall space. More wall space
may be beneficial for placement of furniture, etc.
Here is the floorplan of the 20' x 36' Dogtrot Mark and I have been working on:
(https://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/jraabe/20x36.jpg)
This design could be easily extended in width to 38' (or more) as Bayview has done to add more room to the main living area.
For Planhelp members the 3DHA files for the Dogtrot designs are here (http://www.planhelp.com/public/programs/downloadsearch.cfm?searchtype=simple&searchmode=cat&keywords=recent&sortby=name&cat=3DHA%20Plans).
Bayviewps: Thanks for your suggestions. I like the bath/utility configuration, but there doesnt seem to be a kitchen or is it in the room marked dining? The dog trot can be as wide as you want it to be and it is intended as the main living and circulation space. I wanted to keep the footprint relatively small, but of course it can be as big as you want. If it were 36' deep, you could have 3 12' wide bedrooms and a large kitchen dining room and bath/utility space on the opposite side.
slow2run: Yes I designed this house with the intention that the dogtrot would be used in much the way you describe. Historically the dogtrot wasnt just a breezeway but a vital center of the house. The enclosed rooms were really just for bad weather and very specific uses, like sleeping and cooking. I think its an ideal form for a vacation house or a large family as it can be expanded in many directions.
Keep the comments coming.
Hi Mark,
Very nice designs!
Some comments and suggestions:
-16x30:
I loved the central pergola.
The rectangular shape gives more wall surface, to irradiate accumulated heat, and a lot of air pathways facilitate heat loss by convection.
Very good ventilation pattern, that permits cross flow not just in the dogtrot, but also in the kitchen and the bedrooms, specially over the beds.
A pier foundation would also allow massive air flow under the floor.
The closets between the bedrooms improve acoustic privacy, a common problem in open plans.
The bathroom close to the kitchen simplifies the building process.
I would like a design like this in the hottest areas, with hot summer nights, and would include a light colored roof (common in the Bermuda, as they know that minimising heat gain is very important) and porous ceiling, so the hot air masses can go away (it is good to think about the air flow considering the stratification according to temperature). See the draw.
If it is a design for hot and dry I would include an internal small fountain or aquarium, as well as rainwater harvesting system.
For hot and humid, lots of insect screen, good overhangs and dreinage, a second bathroom window and maybe an external shower.
-18x30:
I like the space for washer machine in the bathroom.
The enclosed bed would be good if you have cold nights, and I would like to be able to seat and eat in the kitchen in this situation.
See the white roofs and ventilation overtures over door and windows:
http://www.galenfrysinger.com/bermuda.htm
Orientation and landscape make all the difference, as you can see in this page, with great info about passive cooling and ventilation:
http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/yourhome/technical/fs15.htm
Good luck,
JCL
Mark:
In my example the kitchen would be in with the dining area. I wasn't working up a
detailed plan. Actually, I was trying to illustrate less doorways to the central area. I am
also suggesting a porch for shade on the southern side.
Again, the dogtrot - central area in Johns plan seems to have quite a few doors . . .
Wouldn't this create traffic congestion?
And of course, room size- square footage is determined by the homeowner needs,
personal choices.
Bayview: Yes I see your point about more wall space. The dogtrot really is a big porch. Its meant to be open at both ends and in traditional dogtrots there are no doors at all. Just a cool shady place to sit and work and sleep. The 1630 plan was meant to give as much living space as possible in a very small footprint. John and I realized early on that 16x30 was a bit too small and that is why we went on to design the 18x36 and the 20x36. But as you say it could get as big as you want or can afford. In the original plan, the bathroom door was in the dogtrot so it was closer to the bedrooms. Your little vestibule for the bedrooms cuts down on doors but it also takes floorspace from the bedrooms and make for some tight corners. Living in a wheelchair, I am very conscious of tight corners like this and much prefer a straight on entry. I also try to minimize traffic through the kitchen for the cooks sanity. But as you say, its really a question of each to his own taste. None of these plans are meant to be engraved in stone. ;)
Mark:
Good point! Many times on designing and building a small home we sacrifice
accessibility for portability. We sometimes forget about the physically challenged.
My parents retired to a split level home. It was great when they were physically able to
climb the stairs. But what a mess when they got older. My father was wheel chair bound
for a few weeks before he passed away. What a problem with doors and the bathroom
facilities.
Someday we all will face challenges. Can a small home be designed with the
handicapped in mind?
Of course it can.
Takes some thinking, though. I've done some thinking for years--ever since a neighbor of my aunt had to turn the dining room into a bedroom because that was downstairs, when the man--roughly my aunt's age--had a stroke--no good bathroom downstairs, though.
Look at what Mark's designed, look at plans on the web or in those periodicals in the magazine sections of the bookstores.
Run a search on Universal Design Houses (or Homes, or house or home ;) not to mention accessible design) Here's one link from the AARP, giving some guidelines--door and hallway widths, for instance, and telling us why everyone needs good lighting, door handles that are easy to turn with wet or soapy hands, etc.
http://www.aarp.org/families/home_design/a2004-03-23-whatis_univdesign.html
And there are some houses here, but they range from sub-800sf (which does absolutely nothing for me!) to mini-McMansions.
http://www.b4ubuild.com/plans/accessible_design.shtml
A lot of links here--including to some house-plan sites.
http://www.makoa.org/accessable-design.htm
Here's a design, allegedly suitable for an RV or addition. Overall site seems to have once been for turtle rescue, though.
http://www.turtlehomes.com/
(http://www.turtlehomes.com/_images/HygAIOBathSmall.jpg)
some of their propaganda--
QuoteHygieniCare Independence RV/ Home Addition "The Freedom Machine" features the All-In-One Bath, a 4' wide travel ramp / home connection bridge, and optional SureHands Ceiling Track Lift System. The ramp allows wheelchair access into this go anywhere RV. Pull it behind your van and set it up wherever you travel. Or use it as a portable accessible home addition at a fraction of the cost of institutional care or accessibility home revisioning.
JCL, thanks for the link galenfrysinger in Bermuda! A person could get lost for hours looking at all the pictures & info of places throughout the world! :)
I like the dogtrot designs - nice concepts - especially for the family get-a-way. You can always close that area in if you decide you want to, but a nice area for get-togethers, sleeping outside but still protected.
AMANDA: To quote Will Smith ..... "I GOT TO GET ME ONE OF THESE". That Turtle Home all in one bathroom is the niftiest thing I have seen since sliced bread. No bigger than a good sized bathtub and absulutely all anyone could want in a bathroom disabled or able bodied. Think of the space savings in small apartments or houses or on airplanes or trains. Handicapped accessible bathrooms on train cars or in compartments now occupy even more space than this unit. And you could really make your own by simply configuring and tiling a bathroom space in a similar way. A standard wall hung toilet under a tiled platform seat, a corner sink close enough to reach and a standard showerhead and drain all in a 3x5 tiled space with a large swing out glass door. I dont see a price listed in the website and Im sure they arent cheap, but dang sometimes you got to splurge and treat yourself right. ;D
BAYVIEW: I always design with the disabled in mind and really dont see any reason why ALL houses ought not to be designed that way. Its really just a matter of a few very small details that make all the difference. In bathrooms its a matter of space, but considering the shameful trend toward enormous spa bathrooms in even modest homes its not such a big deal. A clear space of 5x5 to turn a wheelchair is really all thats needed. Doors should be at least 32 inches wide but 36 is better. The price differential there is negligible. Windows slightly lower to the floor, the same for placement of light fixtures and plugs. In kitchens, the lower counter height can make things awkward if other family members are taller and of course upper cabinets are all but useless. John is always chiding me to include them because I never think of them, but I always provide a tall pantry cabinet and lots of lower drawer space. You have to think a bit about traffic patterns and no tight corners and narrow halls. The house needs to sit low to the ground or you need to provide sensible and UN-obtrusive ramping. But none of it is complicated or expensive and it makes life easier for everyone. Think how often you have been impressed when viewing a house by the nice wide doorways, arches and views. Or the spacious bathroom where you dont bang your hip on the sink as you climb out of the tub. Or the nice wide hallway that let you bring grandmas big dresser into the bedroom without taking out a window or cutting a hole in the wall. Small details easily included in any house design but in 10,20,40 years when you are old and gray you wont regret the few extra dollars you spent on those small features.
Keep the comments coming folks.
My comments. Mark, I really like the first one you posted. I was going to say to make the closets take up the whole wall between the bedrooms, but in the one that John posted later on, I like that 2 closets are dedicated to the master.
On the 2nd one you posted, would it be possible to rotate the bed so the headboard was on the other wall and still have it in the alcove there? That would give a foot or so to access the bed from either side.
Just my 2c.
Amanda, you find the most interesting things!
Judy
Silhanek: If by the second one you mean the 1830 where there is a queen sized bed in the alcove, you could indeed turn the bed 90 degrees and have some space on both sides. The amount of space would depend on the size of the bed. The alcove is 5' deep and 6'10 long. A queen sized bed is 5' wide so that would leave about 11" on either side, pretty tight. A fullsized bed is about 52" wide so that gives a bit more space. You could shorten the closet a bit and make the alcove wider also. It would be just as easy to upgrade to the 2036, which has the double closet and the wall space for a queen sized bed in between or if you wanted to save a bit of money just widen the 1830 to 2030, adding the extra 2 feet to the front of the house and configuring the bedrooms like the ones in the 2036. Its really all cut and paste to suit the clients individual needs. ;)
I was digging back throughthe old posts and found this. Love it, especially the 20 * 36. My daughter, who was looking over my shoulder, says the heck with closets, bed alcoves on both sides of the dividing wall! I haven't measured, though, to see how one alcove with bunk beds in it, and one with a queen-sized bed, head to the wall, feet pointing outward, would work.
Alisa: Sorry I didnt notice your comment earlier. Ive been laid up with bronchitis. In all the variations of the dogtrot that I posted, the beds are meant to be built in. The bed in the back bedroom (the one at the top of the plan is meant to be built along the short end. It could be a double bunk though you would have to change the window placement. Maybe two small porthole or barn sash to light each bunk. Your plan to eliminate the closets and use the area between the bedrooms to create two bed alcoves, one facing into each room would work as well but you would have to lengthen the room to 14' instead of 12'. A standard bed needs about 6'8" and wiggle room if the alcoves were end to end. If you werent concerned with the symmetry of the plan you could always steal the two feet from the dogtrot or expand the building to 20x38 or 40 and get a bit more room on the kitchen side as well. I am very fond of alcove beds. Part of it is my french heritage, but I agree with Thomas Jefferson view that they are the most practical solution for a modest house.
The nice thing is that if they are true cupboard beds, you can close the doors and not make the bed and the room can be used as a sitting room or study.
An excellent solution for studio apartments and the old fashioned bed/sit flat.
And if you build them high enough off the floor you can get a bank of good deep drawers underneath and not even miss the closet space. :)
Hi Mark! Thanks for the reply, and I hope your bronchitis is better. I love your designs in general, and this one is quite neat. One thing I am wondering about this house - dogtrot houses are traidtionally year-round houses down south, right? Are they used in areas of the South where it gets hot in the summer, but also drops below freezing regularly in the winter? If so, how are the bedrooms heated?
The one down the hill when I moved here (that our local arsonist--or somebody--got a couple of years ago) was a two-story log (covered with clapboards) dogtrot, with what was probably a kitchen annex in the back of one side. Two big chimneys at the far ends, fireplaces showing in both, top and bottom. Outside stairs, closed room over the downstairs dogtrot.
And until quite recently it was pretty normal to have snow--significant snow--6 or 7 days a year, and also a week's worth of days when it didn't get up to freezing. The -15's we had in Nashville in the early 80's were not all that common, but I'm sure they happened back in the 19th century.
QuoteThe one down the hill when I moved here (that our local arsonist--or somebody--got a couple of years ago) was a two-story log (covered with clapboards) dogtrot, with what was probably a kitchen annex in the back of one side. Two big chimneys at the far ends, fireplaces showing in both, top and bottom. Outside stairs, closed room over the downstairs dogtrot.
Hmm. Chimneys at either end. Shifting the stove and the sink are pretty easy in the kitchen, but I'm giving myself a bit of a headache trying to figure out how to put a fireplace or woodstove in the bedroom end and still preserve any privacy between parents and kids.
QuoteAnd until quite recently it was pretty normal to have snow--significant snow--6 or 7 days a year, and also a week's worth of days when it didn't get up to freezing. The -15's we had in Nashville in the early 80's were not all that common, but I'm sure they happened back in the 19th century.
I think that's the weather our area is working its way toward, so I think dogtrots could be very practical here. I'm pondering the feasibility of a strawbale dogtrot house with adobe inner walls (except for the wall between the kitchen and bathroom, which would be the usual 2 * 6 and drywall for ease of running plumbing).
Alisa: Thanks for your kind words.
As regards heat in the old days, Amanda is correct about the end chimneys. The historic dogtrot form was really just a two room house with the open dogtrot in the middle so end chimneys were the simplest solution to heat and cooking. In my design, John and I werent really specific about heating. As these are fairly small structures, you could probably get away with a good woodstove in the dogtrot. The dogtrot is designed to be enclosed in cold weather and the stove would do the trick. You could also go with simple baseboard heaters or go whole hog and install a hot air furnace with ducting in the crawl space and CA. Or you could even do in the floor hydronic heat. It all depends on how low-tech,hightech you want to be.
I had to laugh a bit about your concern with placing fireplaces in a modern house. Many of the houses I have designed on paper follow historic forms and although fireplaces are not very practical heat sources, I often include them. My own house in Missouri has 6 fireplaces and a wood stove in the kitchen. If you really wanted to go with fireplaces to heat the main spaces, it wouldnt be that hard to manipulate the plan to accomodate them. Give me a day or two and I will see if I can come up with a quick variant that includes fireplaces as a heat source...purely as an historico-academic exercise. :)
Just wanted to note that I do know that fire-places are suboptimal as heating sources (I'm rather fond of fireplace inserts, though). It's just trying to figure out how to place a fireplace or woodstove on the far left of the house while still splitting the room in two with enough space for beds and clothing that was giving me trouble. A masonry heater would take care of that nicely, but masonry heaters are expensive, IIRC.
Rocket Mass Heater--what Glenn is doing. Even if you don't have nearly everything you need to put it in, it is likely to be pretty economical. Not exactly good for a second floor, though.
Ken Kern really liked (and quite a few people still do) Rumford fireplaces. The very shallow jobs that do a great job of radiating heat into the room. You probably need to buy the throat piece.
http://www.rumford.com/components.html
Fireplaces in end walls aren't particularly efficient--sooner or later that heat is going to end up going through the outside masonry.
But a single fireplace between two rooms might work. Or even a pair, side by side. But that sounds like it might take real money.
Also rumor hath it that the reason houses in South Louisiana had 2nd story fireplaces was so a small fire in them would move hot air out of the whole building in the summer.
New Idria mine was ventilated in that manner - fire under a stack on the hill drew air out of the mine.
Well the problem with fireplaces in bedrooms is that they really screw up the furniture placement unless its a big room. The first bedroom we built with a fireplace on our place in Missouri was about 12 x 14 with the fireplace on oneof the 14'walls. the built in metal unit protruded into the space a bit over two feet. When you put a bed facing the fireplace so you could watch the fire and get the heat it only left about 3 feet of clearance from the end of the standard 7 foot bed.First time we lit a fire, we couldn't see the fire , the sight line was wrong and the end of the bed started to get real hot and nearly scorched before we realized what was what. :o We ended up using a french style bed(head and foot boards are equal height) with its long side parallel to the fire and against the opposite wall. This gave us about 5.6 feet of clearance which solved the problem. Later rooms we made sure there was more clearance or we placed the mantel in a corner so that the heat hit the bed at a more oblique angle.
Putting fireplaces in the Dogtrot plans we posted really makes bed placement hard and screws up the closets. Im working on an enlarged plan that puts the fireplaces between the rooms and still leaves closet space, but it adds a good deal to the square footage, thought its still under 1000 sq ft. Not lavish but not as small and economical a plan. I will try to post this plan today, if the boss takes off early and I can sneak in some time on the scanner. ;)
Heres the promised plans. The first takes the basic 20x36 plan and inserts fireplaces in the rooms. Frankly I dont like it much. Its an awkward looking plan. I have serious doubts about furniture placement and the fire issue(see the above post) and it loses all the closets. But here it is, warts and all for what it is worth.
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/DOGTROTCORNERFIRESPLAN.jpg)
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/DOGTROTCORNERFIRESOVERHEAD.jpg)
Heres a much better plan. It expands the building to 26x38 but it is still under 1000 sq ft so its hardly a macmansion. It has fireplaces in the two bedrooms and the kitchen and it would permit a woodstove in the dogtrot in cold weather. Their are plenty of closets and no problems with furniture placement. All and all a better solution as long as you arent put off by the increased size and expense.
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/BIGDOGTROTWFIRESPLAN.jpg)
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/BIGDOGTROTWFIRESOVERVIEW.jpg)
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/BIGDOGTROTWFIRESFRONT.jpg)
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/BIGDOGTROTWFIRESSIDE.jpg)
Ailsa, I hope these give you some good ideas. The rest of you, feel free to criticize or praise or make suggestions.
NB: Sighhhhhhhhhhhhh. One of these days I need to learn how to size these things for the screen. Mea culpa. At least you can see them without your spectacles.
I like having fireplaces at an angle aesthetically, and have done a couple including my current one in that fashion. But it does gobble up the square footage. If you look at pictures of old homestead houses the chimneys were usually outside of the structure and I am sure that was part of the reason. Also these were primarily all masonry construction and required a more substantial footing as well. And being outside of the perimeter walls they didn't require a roof penetration. With prefab metal fireboxes and lightweight man made finish materials (Z-brick, imitation stone, etc.) the footing isn't so much of a concern which opens up new possibilities. Even woodburning stoves, which are more efficient in terms of heating, require quite a bit of space to make all of the appropriate clearances from combustables. Another option that hasn't been explored here yet is the outdoor wood burning furnace. These are basically a boiler and require pumping water so are not a good off grid option. But if you have grid power designing one of these into the plan would save your interior space and allow your building to remain smaller. Just some thoughts.
Cool thread! I like the ideas and would consider the plan for my property as it gets very hot in the summer. However, it also gets very cold in the winter with the potential for a lot of snow. In the first photograph you posted I noticed a fireplace in the dogtrot area and figured that would be a good addition for a climate like mine. Seal off the ends with doors and windows in the winter, stoke the fire and enjoy yourself. In the summer, open everything up for ventilation. I really like this idea. I had already considered some kind of small buildings with outside areas for summer use like an outdoor kitchen. Now I'll be pondering this for a while.
Bellla
Edited to add: Well color me surprised. I didn't know there was a second page to this thread with fireplace ideas on it. Now I'll have even more pondering to do! :)
Mark:
Thanks! I really like the 26 * 38 one. I was noodling about with a design that looked a little like that, although not as well put together. I have a couple of questions, though:
1. Why a hip roof? Aren't those more expensive?
2. How do you put a woodstove in the dogtrot? The chimney isn't anywhere near it on either side.
3. Are you assuming typical frame contruction?
4. Is this on a slab?
Ailsa: Glad you liked the design.
1) No real reason for the hip roof. An aesthetic decision on my part. It could just as well be a gable roof with the gable on the short end. Yes the hip roof is probably more expensive to frame and shingle.
2) You could put the wood stove in the dogtrot in cold weather. Easiest way would be to run a metal chimney straight up through the ceiling and roof. Triple wall chimney for safety. I just didnt show it in the plans. The fireplaces I show are metal zero clearance units with metal chimneys. The exterior chimneys are just fake shells to hide the metal chimney. Again just aesthetics. Of course you could build real masonry fireplaces and chimneys at considerably more cost.
3)Yes plain old frame construction, 2x4 or 2x6 if you want more insulation space.
4) You could build it on a slab and keep it low to the ground, but you could just as easily build it on piers or a low crawlspace. You could even put it on a full basement if you wanted to with a staircase in the dogtrot or an exterior bulkhead. The plans are meant to be fairly generic but easy to alter in regards to foundation, roofing and specific details.
QuoteAilsa: Glad you liked the design.
Love it. Sorry to take aso long to respond.
Quote1) No real reason for the hip roof. An aesthetic decision on my part. It could just as well be a gable roof with the gable on the short end. Yes the hip roof is probably more expensive to frame and shingle.
*nod* OK, gable roof would be my preference, with 2' kneewalls, so I could get some loft space up above.
Quote2) You could put the wood stove in the dogtrot in cold weather. Easiest way would be to run a metal chimney straight up through the ceiling and roof. Triple wall chimney for safety. I just didnt show it in the plans. The fireplaces I show are metal zero clearance units with metal chimneys. The exterior chimneys are just fake shells to hide the metal chimney. Again just aesthetics. Of course you could build real masonry fireplaces and chimneys at considerably more cost.
One plus about the masonry, though - thermal mass to help heat the place in winter. Maybe runnign a chimney up between he kitchen and the dogtrot, so one the kitchen side would be a cookstove and the dogtrot could have a woodstove for heating the rest of the place? (The fact that the bedrooms would probably get the least heat isn't a problem - I really prefer a cold bedroom.)
Is it possible to build a chimney out of cement blocks and just face it with something prettier? I'd love to figure out a way to make my own masonry stove, but I'm afraid that'd be $$$.
Quote4) You could build it on a slab and keep it low to the ground, but you could just as easily build it on piers or a low crawlspace. You could even put it on a full basement if you wanted to with a staircase in the dogtrot or an exterior bulkhead. The plans are meant to be fairly generic but easy to alter in regards to foundation, roofing and specific details.
Slabs aren't real popular here in New England. A full basement would be my preference. Going down below the frost line takes you close enough to basement deep anyway.
Alisa: If you look at the smaller version, the 20x 36, there is a fireplace in the dogtrot and a corner fireplace in the kitchen. You could eliminate the fireplace in the kitchen and hook up your cookstove with no problem. You could easily make this change to the 26x38 as well. You would have to shift the pantry closet to the space where the fireplace is in the kitchen and push the entry arch toward the front of the house but its all minor changes. If you built the fireplace with a raised hearth at say waist height you could also use it for cooking and grilling as well.
Nowadays most masonry chimneys are built of concrete block and faced with brick, tile, stone etc. Ive also been fascinated by masonry heaters that include a cooking area as well. I once saw an article about a homemade masonry heater that was in the partially exposed basement of the house but extended up into the living room. The top of it was at counter height and had a metal plate in the top for slow cooking. There were seating benches as well and it was a dandy place for drying boots and mittens. It might have been in an old MEN or one of the Shelter Books. It was definitely homemade.
Maybe someone will remember the source and post it. Ive got a copy somewhere but more than likely its not here but at the house in Missouri. Thats where I usually find anything I need here. ;)
Also the foundation under the fireplace would be brought up from the basement floor - maybe you could work another chimney into it for a basement heater.
I like to see some good ideas for design for a couple of "not partnered" senior citizens where there are living quarters (master suite with bedroom and sitting area) on either side of a communal living area that is not dull or boring... seems like the dogtrot would be perfect for that sort of thing....
I've always liked the dogtrot design. I think it would be good for me and my daughter, with the two bedrooms on opposite sides of the dogtrot (on the north side of the house, as I prefer cool bedrooms). I wouldn't want them side-by-side, because as soon as she hears me moving around in the morning she's up, and that gives me no privacy for a few quiet moments (she's autistic, and clingy). That would put the kitchen on one side and the bathroom on the other, but since my future house plans don't include running water, just drains, that wouldn't be a big problem. I would have a cook stove in the kitchen, and a masonry stove, or rocket stove, in the dogtrot. I love the idea of a garden room, and would also like to have a 'water feature' (a pool, little waterfall, a few goldfish or whatever) for my daughter to play in.
I think your designs are a tad short on storage space, though, Mark. One shortcoming of small houses is that there isn't enough room to put things away, so you end up with a lot of clutter. Since I raise most of our food, I need a large pantry, and a root cellar (preferably not underneath the house, though). I would really like to have a room for the laundry tubs (no washer and dryer in my non-electric house), a work table, some storage space, the treadle sewing machine, and the ironing board. It could also be the pantry, I suppose. But I really do like your concepts, and I like the looks of the house with the pergola or trellis at the front door!
Kathleen
FreeHoldFarm: Im glad you like the designs. I see your point about storage.
The plans are really meant to be simple space plans, easily manipulated. There is more storage than you might suppose. The beds are built in and are meant to have storage drawers under them. Because I am in a wheelchair, I tend not to show upper cabinets in the kitchen as they are useless to me as are closets in the usual sense. But they are easily added to the plans.
It sounds as if you plan to do some real off grid living. By any chance do you live in Great Britain? Freehold is not an american term. Give me a day or two and let me see if I can come up with a variant on the basic dogtrot plan that might suit your needs.
LATER ON MONDAY: Okay heres a variant that might suit your needs. Lots of closets and built ins. A large kitchen with an attached pantry and a good sized laundry/work room for the wash tubs and sewing machine. As you dont plan to have electricity, I assume you will be hanging out the wash so I gave you a door to the outside. Theres a big terrace in the back that could be glazed as a conservatory as a safe place for your daughter to play. The bedrooms are near one another but separated by the bathroom and a short hallway. I show an open fire in the dogtrot but it could just as well be a stove.
How are you planning to provide hot water if you dont have electricity? Will you use bottled gas or heat water on the stove. I show a standard kitchen range, but you could easily reverse the position of the range and dresser and put a chimney in a corner of the laundry to service the cookstove and a laundry boiler. Give me the word and I will give you the full range of Jane Austen amenities. ;) Feel free to praise, criticize and make suggestions.
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Looking good Mark. You've gotten pretty good with 3DHA! :D
These various dogtrot designs remind me of some of the features of the house I built in the FL Keys. It's shape was dictated by the setback requirements and lot size. I've fiddled with it some now that my daughter is in college and I no longer have any setback restrictions.
The original was right at 1000 sq. ft. Here is the current 880 sq. ft. floor plan.
2BR, 2BA + laundry room. I've doodled lots of concept houses but most aren't in a postable format. Your comments & opinions are welcome.
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Darn, Mark, the more you modify that design, the more I love it! The kitchen/pantry/laundry trifecta is great, and I like the MBR giving onto the patio too. If you wanted to design the wood cookstove + hot water reservoir version, I'd be interested in seeing it.
Ailsa: The Jane Austen version hardly needs drawing. Take the 6 feet of cabinets on the wall between the laundry and pantry doors and put it where the range is now. You might lose some of the length but not much. Put the wood cookstove in its place. You would need to lay a hearth and have a heat shiield behind it. Build the chimney in the adjacent corner of the laundry. I was joking about the old fashioned wash boiler but it could be built into that same corner. Its just a big copper kettle built into a sort of brick barbecue. The copper is filled with water and a fire is built under it to heat the water and you boil the dirty clothes or draw the heated water off with a tap into wash tubs. Pretty hgh tech operation in the 18th and early 19th century. I once wrote a paper in college on the development of kitchen offices in the 18th and 19th century. I am absolutely fascinated by the arrangement of below stairs' particularly in large country houses.
John: I can churn out the ideas pretty quick now with 3dha, especially plans and variations. Im still working on my rendering skills, but its great for getting an idea down in visual form and lots more accurate than pen and paper. Ive translated piles of old thumbnail sketches into readable plans and find its the best way to work out a plan. Sure am glad you introduced me to 3dha.
QuoteAilsa: The Jane Austen version hardly needs drawing.
Aw, pooh! I live to make you draw more floorplans! ;D Think you could fit a small office in there somewhere? All it needs is to be big enough for a computer desk and be an actual room with a door that closes. (There are many things I can live without, but if my husband doesn't have a hidey-hole, Things Will be Bad, and I have an absolute rule against computers in the bedroom.)
AILSA: Okay just for you. But anymore change orders and I will have to send a bill. ;) Actually I rather like this design better myself though it pushes the square footage over 1000.
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Mark, that is really a great layout! I really like the patio/veranda (or whatever you want to call it) in the back of the house, too! Yes, I'd replace that one bank of cabinets with a wood cook stove, and I like your ideas about the hot water boiler. I've always just heated water on the wood stove when we had no electricity (in Alaska, not England -- I got the Freeholder handle from a book, Farnham's Freehold, but kept it because I'm a 'homesteader' and it fits), but it would be nice to have a dedicated water heating system.
My plans, for someday, include a composting toilet (probably a sawdust toilet in the house, and a regular 'Sunny John' type outdoors); a hand pump for the water (which I already have); laundry tubs and a hand-crank wringer -- and clotheslines -- for doing laundry. Yes, having a door straight out to the clotheslines from the laundry is excellent! I garden, raise chickens and goats (for both meat and milk, so I'm butchering as well as milking), make cheese and soap, sew on Grandma's old treadle machine -- and spend way too much time on this computer, LOL! I have two baby goats sitting in a big dog crate behind me right now -- bottle babies who will stay in for a couple more days, at least. (They are bottle babies because I'm milking their mother.) But doing all that stuff makes demands on a house that urban dwellers don't have to consider.
Having lived a pretty good chunk of my life without electricity, I pretty well know what I need to make that kind of life liveable.
And Mark, I REALLY, REALLY like that design!! I like having a fireplace, as long as we aren't living in such a cold climate that it's not practical (such as Alaska), because I like to cook over an open fire, and sometimes that's not practical outdoors. You even made the bathroom big enough so I can get in there to assist my daughter! Thanks!
Kathleen
Kathleen: My blushes ma'am. Such praise. IM glad you like the design so much. It sounds like your life is mighty busy and you obviously know all about life off the grid. You sure dont need any lessons from me. Your household sounds wonderful. I will try and find a picture or plans for the 18th c copper wash boiler set in bricks. The library where I work has a fine book on Jane Austens house at Chawton and I know there is a picture of such a setup in the book, but for the life of me I cant remember the books title. I will dig it out of the catalog and scan the pic some time this week and post the pic for you and Ailsa to see. Tried searching for a pic on the net but had no luck. Lots of pics of copper wash boilers that you set on the stove but not the older built in setup. You will always get a big bathroom from me. Living in a wheelchair, the standard skinny 5 foot by 9 foot bathroom has been the bane of my existance. Gald you found the plan useful. :)
QuoteKathleen: My blushes ma'am. Such praise. IM glad you like the design so much. It sounds like your life is mighty busy and you obviously know all about life off the grid. You sure dont need any lessons from me. Your household sounds wonderful.
I'm sure impressed. Kathleen, you're doing more or less exactly what I aspire to (and I have a son with Down Syndrome, so there's even a parallel there).
QuoteI will try and find a picture or plans for the 18th c copper wash boiler set in bricks. The library where I work has a fine book on Jane Austens house at Chawton and I know there is a picture of such a setup in the book, but for the life of me I cant remember the books title. I will dig it out of the catalog and scan the pic some time this week and post the pic for you and Ailsa to see. Tried searching for a pic on the net but had no luck. Lots of pics of copper wash boilers that you set on the stove but not the older built in setup.
I'm really looking forward to seeing that. It sounds like just what the doctor ordered!
QuoteYou will always get a big bathroom from me. Living in a wheelchair, the standard skinny 5 foot by 9 foot bathroom has been the bane of my existance. Glad you found the plan useful. :)
Wheelchair accessability is a necessity for us, too, so I really appreciate the fact that you design for it.
I was awestruck by the design & want to run out & build it tomorrow (factoring in a basement and a gable-end roof). DH wants to eliminate the small hallway by the bedrooms. *sigh* I may be forced to kill him.
Kathleen, are you planning on having retractable clotheslines in the dogtrot as well? I'm thinking it would be a great place to hang out laundry in the winter and early spring.
Question for everyone - would it be possible to do the foundation as a rectangle and do the floor as one huge slab of concrete over it? Any idea how much heat one would lose having the outdoor veranda and the rest of the floor indoors as part of one sheet? Or are there code reasons why you can't do that in the first place?
QuoteQuestion for everyone - would it be possible to do the foundation as a rectangle and do the floor as one huge slab of concrete over it? Any idea how much heat one would lose having the outdoor veranda and the rest of the floor indoors as part of one sheet? Or are there code reasons why you can't do that in the first place?
That is common. The house basement I'm working on now is 2 rectangles under a larger slab.
Where you have a heated (indoor) slab you will use foam insulation to insulate the edges and for a foot or two under the bottom around the perimeter. In cold climates you might do more insulation. The patio or outdoor slabs are poured without the insulation and somewhat lower than the indoor slab so that wind driven water is not pumped inside. The outdoor slabs are usually poured after the house is essentially complete and all the heavy equipment has left.
Ailsa: I don't see why you couldnt do the basement that way. You could build a rectangle inside the basement as big as the terrace and use that colder area as a root cellar, which was on Kathleens original wish list. If you went with a conventional furnace in the basement, it would heat the rest of the basement comfortably but still leave you with the cold larder.
I will keep looking for that wash boiler. They were pretty much a standard feature of English houses right through the end of the 19th c., but I cant seem to find a picture on the net. I will look for the Austen book this morning.
Tell your husband to leave that little hallway alone. If you add the space to the bathroom, you only gain about 36 sq ft about the size of a double bed mattress, but you lose the isolation between the main rooms and the bedrooms and between the bedrooms themselves. That hall is there so the kiddies dont hear mom and dad in the morning when they are doing.......their exercises. ;)
Didnt we give that man a little getaway of his own. Tell him not to be so greedy. :D
I'm thinking that for me--and a kind of long narrow house with the long ways going down a hill, a root cellar with a double foundation would be wonderful on the hill end, leave the middle open for the dogs, partly close, and partly fill in the other end because then there could be a rocket mass stove there--and it could heat the bathroom before it went out of doors. OK, it might work better if it were backwards, actually in several ways, turning the house around so that there was more headroom in the root cellar, less fill to do under the rocket mass heater. Wood floors except in under heater--kitchen and bathroom.
Which, if made a bit bigger, could be a dogtrot house--bedroom/study at one end, kitchen at the other, dogtrot in the middle--none over 10 feet long. And an all-but-the-coldest-weather bedroom out on a porch.
Books are in storage, right now, but doesn't Ken Kern have a picture of a wash boiler setup in one of his?
I'm enjoying looking at these, thinking about how they would work, even if I don't think they'd quite be for me.
Took me awhile to find the boiler pics, but here they are. Basically the boiler was a copy kettle set into a brick firebox. You lit a fire in the firebox and it heated the water. Then you could stuff in the washing and boil it before scrubbing. You can see the wooden agitator in the background of one of the pics. Sometimes the copper kettle was permanently fixed which must have made emptying it and cleaning it a real chore. Sometimes they could be removed, but lifting a kettle of boiling water must have been a pain in the [neck as well. Eventually someone thought to provide them with a tap, which made it simpler. When cast iron set ranges and stoves came on the seen this form of boiler was replaced by the hot water tank with a tap you know see on most wood cookstoves. Ive seem similar setups done with an old bathtub and a pulley and winch over it used to scald hogs for home butchering and the steam kettles in commercial kitchens are distant cousins to the old wash boiler. Heres the pictures for what they are worth.
Jane Austens laundry room at Chawton, circa 1790.
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This picture pretty much shows the whole range of late 18th/early19th c laundry and cooking options. Cooking on that skinny little grate must have been lots of fun, but I really like the look of that tall narrow fireplace. Nice big boiler to the side and in the left background, the big step up to a coal fired range with hot water tank. Note the wash agitator in the background.
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Mark, thanks for finding and posting those pictures -- I'm a Jane Austen fan, and it's pretty neat to see pictures of her house!
I like the idea of pouring a big slab (with thermal breaks at the house walls, so you don't lose heat) and having a root cellar OR a cistern under that big back patio. It might be best to put a cistern under it, and have the root cellar above-ground in the back yard, with earth berming around it. That way you don't have to worry about stairs.
I was also thinking about having one big roof over the whole thing, with the roof decking left off over the patio so it would be a shade roof. Do you know what I mean? It would make the roof simpler to build, and probably be a little less costly, too.
Yes, a place to dry clothes indoors is an excellent idea. I've used those wooden racks in the past (though you have to be careful to get a good quality one, because if the dowels weren't cut with good straight grain, they will break under a load), but would like to have an indoor clothesline. We did have one in the basement of one house we lived in, but it seemed to take forever for things to dry down there, perhaps a combination of low temps and high humidity (that house was in Tacoma, WA). I've thought that a sunspace would make a nice place to dry laundry in the winter.
If I get time later (I'm trying to finish up the homework for a class I'm taking, which ends this weekend), I'll play with the design on Google Sketch-up.
Mark, if you don't sell your designs, you ought to think about selling this one.
Kathleen
Jump right in here folks,
If you were going to do the dogtrot or something else with large opening doors on the N & S sides what would you use?
Parameters: Air but not bugs in the summer, weather tight in the winter, sunlight through the S door in the winter for passive heating.
French doors? sliding glass doors? Go ahead and be specific with mfg names of suitable doors you have had good or bad experiences with.
I haunted building salvage yards - took a while, but for the Eastern end I found a 1920's 6 ftx 4'6"" four-pane window with squares of coloured glass in the top two panes, which open up, and across the bottom of the large bottom panes, which open out, and 1890'2, I think, 8 ftx 5 ft french doors for the Western end- both cost less than a hundred bucks, but getting shutters made up for the french doors was $400. In the summer, the prevailing wind is easterly from the coast 30 miles away- it blows through the Eastern end, the up-tilting top panes direct the wind to the cieling and blow the hot air out the (closed) shutters.
In the winter, the sun shines through the closed french doors from lunchtime on and heats the house up like a greenhouse.
I thinkold windows and doors, aside from being cheap, add a great deal of charm to a home.
There are some pics posted here somewhere.
Nice layout, Mark.
I agree with Freeholdfarm, a simpler two-plane Gable (sp?) roof would suit my tastes ... and budget. I'd extent the roof over the current terrace and connect the terrace to the dogtrot ... possibly all being over earth. This would make for a nice open "garden" ... possibly the roofing over the garden would be translucent corrugated.
We have mild winters.