CountryPlans Design/Build Forum

General => Owner-Builder Projects => Topic started by: Redoverfarm on January 16, 2013, 01:45:33 PM

Title: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 16, 2013, 01:45:33 PM
Well it's been about 8 years since I added the addition to the house.  I thought I would start a seperate topic to show the steps taken in case someone else uses Attic Trusses and wonders how to finish the space off.

The 26'X44' garage was added as well as a 10' foyer area that includes a sun roof, laundry room and pantry and 12'X48' family room and exercise/hot tub room.  I finished all the additions with the exception of the garage, workshop and garage apartment.  My plans are to construct a 1 bedroom, kitchen/family room and full bathroom in the loft of the garage. 

Attic trusses are nice as far as providing more useable space but take a little more effort for framing and subfloor.  All the framing has to angled to the profile of the roof.  My roof is a 10/12 pitch.  Standard subfloor is attached to the rim joist of the platform.  But with attic trusses there is no rim joist so you have to create one within the truss design.  I had posted earlier about alternating 2X blocks nailed between the floor joist/bottom rafter cord.  Today I finished all the blocking required for the subfloor as well as the storage area directly behind the knee wall.  Next phase is installing the subfloor.

I need to wait a couple days to figure out what this wacky weather is going to do as they are calling for snow.  I have to remove the plow from the tractor to use the bucket to hoist the subfloor sheets up to take it through the door.

Open view to the front(bedroom)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2042-1.jpg)

Open area to the rear (Kitchen)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2043-1.jpg)

View from the double 3/0 bedrrom window

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2048-1.jpg)

Kneewall w/o blocking

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2045-1.jpg)

Kneewall w/ blocking

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2046-1.jpg)

Storage behind the kneewall

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2041-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: MountainDon on January 16, 2013, 03:27:07 PM
 [cool]  Is the insulation going into the roof all the way down to the bottom chord of the truss or will you be insulating the kneewall? 
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 16, 2013, 05:09:48 PM
[cool]  Is the insulation going into the roof all the way down to the bottom chord of the truss or will you be insulating the kneewall?

Don I will be building a secondary kneewall which will be approximately 18" tall near the outside wall.  I will insulate that kneewall as well as the rafter bay leading to the ridge.  I did the same in the house.  Good or Bad idea?  It seems to work pretty well.  The floor will be insulated as well from outside wall to outside wall. 

I installed drywall (scrap pieces) on the interior of the storage area which keeps things clean, dry and insect proof. I guess you could call this busy work.  Not real fun as the largest piece I can get in the space is what will pass through the access door.  But I don't have to be too particular about the finished look. ;)

One chore which I really don't look forward to is the drywall on the kneewall of the main rooms.  The heigth is about 5'3" which will mean that I will have a joint seem 15" either at the top or bottom of the wall for the length of the wall.  I think at the bottom will be less noticable.  ???
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: MountainDon on January 16, 2013, 07:02:38 PM
My feeling is that the inner wall should NOT be insulated. Rather the roof or in your case the roof and outer kneewall. My reasoning is that makes it easier to do a good job sealing and insukating. Doors, electrical receptacles etc in the inner wall then do not need sealing. Sealing that would be much more difficult with doors and other perforations.

Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 17, 2013, 04:07:08 AM
That is my intent.  I had not planned on insulating the inner kneewall.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 24, 2013, 04:46:08 PM
Moving right along.  The main area now has LP Top Notch 350 subfloor down.  I used 2" deck screws and subfloor adhesive.  The manufacturer claims that you can use this on a deck exposed to the elements as the notch design allows weep holes for the water to drain off.  I guess providing that it all flows toward the seams and not lay in the middle of the sheet.  They claim a 200 day guarentee or they pay for the sanding to smooth it back.

http://www.lpcorp.com/topnotch/

If anyone ever wonders what the application rate is on the bigger tubes of adhesive I used 1 tube for 8 sheets set on 16" centers.

Ran into a little problem as I laid the subfloor.  The first sheet fit fine against the kneewall.  I noticed with the second sheet that it was not lining up correctly with the previous sheet or against the kneewall.  It was doubtful that the kneewall support were not installed correctly since most companies use a jig to assemble.  Further examination revealed that when the attic trusses were installed by the contactor that some were not pushed tight against the top plate.  The intersection between the top and bottom cord should butt up against the outside of the top plate.  The kneewall studs that were not quite right were the ones that lacked that outside contact.  Although it only varied 1/4 -3/8" it was time consuming.  I cut the corresponding notch at those locations to keep alignment of the subfloor.  The last row revealed a 1-1/2" gap between the edge of the last row and the kneewall.  I had anticipated this with the sheets being less than 48" surface area inclusive of the Tounge and Groove.  I never caught the misalignment until now.  I plumb cut the rafter tails to a uniform distance from the wall so it was not detected and didn't affect the rake or facia alignment.

Next step is to lay down the subfloor in the storage area directly behind the kneewall.

Still need to set down and draw up a set of workable plans to divide the area into seperate rooms.  It seems like a great amount of space in a 12' X 44' but when you try to squeeze in a kitchen, living room, full bathroom and full size bedroom the space quickly disappears.  Then the framing should begin.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 26, 2013, 02:21:47 PM
Well all the subfloor is laid both in the main living area and the storage area.  At least I think.  I may add another 12" to the storage area so that I can make a shorter back kneewall.  As it stands if I make the wall at the edge of the 4' sheets it will require a 23" stud.  By moving it I can decrease the heigth of the stud as well as give a little more room.  I have plenty of scrap OSB.

Here is a picture of the main living space.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_1473-1.jpg)

And one on the house side

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_1476-1.jpg)

One on the dormer side

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_1474-1.jpg)

Here is a bonus room that I hadn't mentioned.  It is the room over the laundry/pantry & Sunroom.  It is basicly 10'X18 that ties to house to the garage.  Due to the roof that ties into the garage I wasn't able to put a full size opening for the door.  It is roughly 30" wide by 5'3" high.  My plans are to come out with the framing to a regular size door and decrease it toward the opening.  I don't make doors. ;)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_1480-1.jpg)

This is a picture of that room. I cannot get back far enough with the camera to capture it's full size.  The housewrapped wall is the exterior of the house.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_1481-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Windpower on January 26, 2013, 03:05:39 PM
Sort of looks similar to our garage project (it  is 28 X 38 with 12 12 pitch) we are going with 4 ft knee walls and full height ceiling in the great room

Do you have any pics from outside

looks like beautiful country
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 27, 2013, 09:52:19 AM
Sort of looks similar to our garage project (it  is 28 X 38 with 12 12 pitch) we are going with 4 ft knee walls and full height ceiling in the great room

Do you have any pics from outside

looks like beautiful country

Mine is 26'X44' and the finished kneewall will be around 5'3".  I dug around and found some pictures.  The beginning to the end at least on the outside (almost).  Still have the deck and stairway to build off the back.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/000_0002-1.jpg)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/000_0004-1.jpg)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/000_0002-2.jpg)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/000_0003-1.jpg)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_0122-1.jpg)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_0125-1.jpg)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_0323-1.jpg)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_1483-1.jpg)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_1487-1.jpg)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_1485-1.jpg)

Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Bob S. on January 27, 2013, 10:24:26 AM
Could you tell us how the beams for the back deck work.? Maybe they are not finished yet and you only put them up so you could install the siding.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 27, 2013, 10:38:24 AM
Could you tell us how the beams for the back deck work.? Maybe they are not finished yet and you only put them up so you could install the siding.

Bob those are permanent.  They are 6" X 6' I-Beam Guardrail post.  After I retired I supervised a Guardrail Crew and picked them up as salvage.  They are galvanized.  I pocketed them back into the wall.  Had a local welder to weld plates on the ends and I lagged them into a doubled up floor joist (rafter).  My intention is to lay Trex or similar product to make a walkway and then off onto a set of stairs to the ground. I keep watching for some steel or aluminum platform stairs that I can install.    I am not really fond of Pressure treated lumber and this was an alternative that I figured would work.  I figured I could drill holes in the flanges to put screws up through for a hidden fastner on the decking. 
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Windpower on January 27, 2013, 01:52:25 PM

Very nice, Red
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Don_P on January 27, 2013, 08:14:40 PM
I think the electrons froze, pics keep failing  d*. I saw you were talking about a steel framed deck. If I could bring one in affordably galvanized steel would be my first choice, rigid and a railing post sure isn't going to fail. Trex ( I think) is coming out with a line of light steel deck framing.

On the stairs, if you're heading down the mountain into NC off I77 with time to kill hop over onto 52S towards Winston Salem, about 15 miles east of the King exit is K&G salvage, I've seen steel stairways from industrial plants in there...although with the mines theres gotta be a boneyard nearer to you.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 29, 2013, 04:02:39 PM
Got about 1/2 of the stairway framed in.  All of the subfloor is finished.  The contractor that dried in the garage had used 2X4 bracing along the bottom and top of the kneewall to keep the trusses in line.  In addition he used 1 full sheet of 1/2" OSB on the backside of the kneewall on all four corners.  This really braced the trusses until the roof sheeting could be installed.  His crew also used 3-20' 2X4's nailed to the king post in the upper portion of the trusses just above the rafter ties(ceiling cord) .  I was able to take everything loose and recycle the OSB & 2X4's with the exception of the 3-20 footers.  There is no way to get them deown. I guess this is sort like the man that built the boat in the basement.  There is just not enough room to elevate one end to make it down between the 16" ctr trusses. ???

Well I determined that I did not have enough headroom for the steps by creating access to storage area so I am going to abandon that idea and decided to breach the kneewall on that side to give me access.  So by eliminating that need I was able to get the headroom needed for the stairs.

 
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on February 13, 2013, 12:58:52 PM
Not too much progress on the apartment.  Not for a lack of interest but materials.  I have been waiting on an upcoming builders auction sheduled for February 16th.  Since I am not committed to certain door sizes I will wait until I attend to see what is a good buy in the various sizes that I can use.  Once I get those doors I can frame accordingly.   I have been attending this particular auction for the last 6-7 years and have saved a considerable amount of money in the house addition as well as Dogtrot cabin.    So now I am making my wish list on what I need. 

I did install blocking/nailers on the kitchen walls for the cabinet install.  I completed the framing on the stairway.  I have a large set of Oak cabinets that I obtained from my cousin during her remodel in TN.  So most likely I will use a portion of those and what is remaining I will use for cabinets in my shop. I think I have about 23 pieces left of which almost 1/2 are bases.  I will only be able to use the base cabinets with the exception of the small cabinet over the refrigerator due to the kneewall heigth.  I have had them stored in the garage for several years.  I also have 410 sq ft of Brazilian Cherry hardwood flooring which was left over from the cabin.  Although not enough to do the complete apartment it will do 12X28 of that space.  The remainder will have to be some other type/style of flooring.  Problem being that the shade of flooring will not go exactly with the oak cabinets so I may go against the grain and paint the cabinets white.  There is also a possibility to find similar style flooring and buy enough to mix shades to extend the square footage. 

Here is the Beverly Hillbilly load of the cabinets.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/scenes/country%20plans/100_2605-1.jpg)

When I built Dogtrot I used a Aqua Glass 48" one piece shower.  I went to Lowes to see if I could pick up another of the same style. Yep you guessed it discontinued.  A comparable one now range from $650-$1650.  [shocked]. I believe i paid about $350 for it then.  I did manage to find something similar but it was a 4 piece being the base and three wall panels.  It was being discontinued as well but the price was right @ $272.  Only one hitch was that they only had the wall unit and did not have the base.  So I had an associate to look in the area of other stores nearby and low and behold there was one found about 6 miles from the auction site that I was going to.  They are holding it until I pick it up this weekend.

I hope to pick up a toilet, sink and base cabinet, light fixtures, exhaust fan, shower control valves, doors and maybe even some T&G paneling for the ceiling.  The last couple of auctions it went for $.35 ln ft which would be about $.70 sq ft.  I was unable to attend their last auction in October which was the closest.  I guess we will see what they have available and go from there.  Sort of get spoiled though paying nearly wholesale and then having to go someplace else and pay retail.

Oh I did manage to get the 2X4 temporary bracing down through the trusses.  But not without a price.  The longest piece that could be gotten down was 6'5".  Hard to believe that they couldn't be removed longer but it was impossible.  Well I used them for the cabinet bracing and will use the additional pieces for the short kneewall in the storage area.

Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on June 18, 2013, 03:59:19 AM
Well it has been some time since I updated this particular project.  Partly due to other more pending projects and my fathers health problems.  But I did manage to get some of the apartment framed.

This is a picture looking from the bedroom toward the kitchen, hallway which depicts a small closet to the right and the stairway to the garage floor.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_1902-1_zps6f6e7722.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_1902-1_zps6f6e7722.jpg.html)

This is a picture of the bonus room which is actually over the breezeway connecting the garage to the main house.  Due to the ridge heigth I had to move the door framing out into the room somewhat to give me full heigth to get a regular size door in the opening.  The actual cut out was about 8-10" too short and figured this would be a better alternative than to make a custom door.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_1903-1_zps5197b168.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_1903-1_zps5197b168.jpg.html)

This is a picture of the bathroom framing which is about 6' X 6' which will have a commode in the left corner, 48" shower stall in the right corner and pedestal sink midwall between the two.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_1904-1_zpse995ae01.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_1904-1_zpse995ae01.jpg.html)

Here is a picture of the kneewall penetration for the storage access. I attempted to frame the opening so that the trusses on either side of the one verticle support removed would carry the weight load.  It was a little difficult in making the attachment of the header near the rafters due to the metal gussets so that is why there are two header supports for extra protection.  I guess time will tell on whether this approach will suffice but given the limited weigth load I think it will be fine. If I had it to do over I would have extended the additional jack or cripple studs to the bottom of the floor joist chord of the truss before I laid the floor.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_1905-1_zps003f31e9.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_1905-1_zps003f31e9.jpg.html)

Next stage will be the rough in of the plumbing.

Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: dablack on July 03, 2013, 06:38:11 AM
The pictures look good. 

Between your attic trusses and my attic trusses, I don't think anyone will be confused on how attic trusses are used to provide storage and living space. 

I was a little surprised at you cutting the verticle support in that last picture.  I just HATE cutting trusses.  I'm sure it will be fine but it really bothers me. 

Can't wait to see how your plumbing goes.  I've got my DWV mostly in.  I'm about to start on the PEX.

Austin
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on July 03, 2013, 12:18:41 PM
The pictures look good. 

Between your attic trusses and my attic trusses, I don't think anyone will be confused on how attic trusses are used to provide storage and living space. 

I was a little surprised at you cutting the verticle support in that last picture.  I just HATE cutting trusses.  I'm sure it will be fine but it really bothers me. 

Can't wait to see how your plumbing goes.  I've got my DWV mostly in.  I'm about to start on the PEX.

Austin

Yes I pondered that very question but to use the space there was no other access. My trusses were set 16"oc so I would have only had 13" after trimmed out and that was not enough.   I originally planned on making the access on the end where the stairway was but to keep enough headroom coming up the steps that wasn't possible.  The remainder of the other 4 storage areas will be entered from the end where there is dormers.

I headed off all of the cut members to spread the weight distribution to the other trusses and even doubled those.  Hopefully it will turn out alright. The originall manufacturer had done the dormers in that manner which were all engineered. So basicly I am just following what was done previously.

As far as the plumbing I don't foresee any real problems as all of the fixtures are close to one side.  Getting the proper pitch on DWV while still within the truss bottom cord cavity until I reach the garage wall is only about 8'.  I will build a chase against that wall of the garage to house all the plumbing until I reach the drop point.

I just haven't had time to work much on it.  Just hit & miss a few hours here and there.  But I guess the turtle might win the race eventually. ;D
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Windpower on July 10, 2013, 05:11:32 AM

Looks good, Red

We have decided to not complete the 'apartment' over our garage for a while and just leave it  a bonus storage room

we are under a steep curve to get the main house done since we have to be out of our sold house here in 16 days (yes we are counting  ;D



Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on July 10, 2013, 05:26:20 AM
Looks good, Red

We have decided to not complete the 'apartment' over our garage for a while and just leave it  a bonus storage room

we are under a steep curve to get the main house done since we have to be out of our sold house here in 16 days (yes we are counting  ;D

Yes that is what I said.  Didn't need the room at the moment so why get into a hurry.  Needed to finish the actual space for living.  That was  ???  8-9 years since I framed it.  Hard to believe how time flys past.  The cabin consummed the majority of that time though.  With everything else going on I again delayed it some.  Looks like a winter time project now.  Glad I wasn't on a timeline like you.   ;D
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Windpower on July 10, 2013, 05:35:12 AM


'timeline'   ?

panic is closer to it  ;D

the next couple months are going to be very interesting
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on December 31, 2013, 11:07:44 AM
Well it has been some time since I updated my renovations of the garage apartment.  Went through one of lifes unexpected occurances.  With the passing of my father in late October I had devoted most of this summer spending time with him and my mother prior to his death.  Hard to watch someone slowly drift away and the feeling of helplessness that comes over you.  But at age 88 he had lived a wonderful life doing what was near and dear to his heart.

Hopefully I can steer my way back on track somewhat.  In the last couple of weeks I have started some more work intermittently over the holidays.  I built up the floor truss adjacent to the exterior wall which I have bolted 4"X 6" steel I-beams (guardrail post) which will be the platform for the outside deck and walkway for my seperate egress from the apartment in the event of a fire.  The truss is 2X8.  I added 2 additional 2X8's to it making it a 4-1/2" X 7-1/4" beam.  Although I am not sure really what advantage it will serve other than peace of mind.  The I-beams are lagged into the floor truss bottom cord and rest on the top plate of the garage 1st floor framing.  I probably cantelevered the beams to the extreme but there doesn't seem to be any real flexing when weight is applied to the outside edge.  The I-beams will be covered with Composite/vinyle decking material.  The attachment will be done from the bottom side to avoid any fastners from being visible on the face side.

Here is a picture of the built up beam.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2324-1_zps048d54af.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2324-1_zps048d54af.jpg.html)

Walkway and deck platform on the exterior.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_0125-1.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_0125-1.jpg.html)

I also have framed the majority of the kneewall crawlspace entry doors.  Since this is a truss design the framing will be essentially non-load bearing.  I left a break in the header width to allow me to slide full 4' width sheets of drywall into the cubby holes to finish them off.  ;)  Unlike on the house where I had to use smaller sheets that I could slide through the storage space doors.   d*  The space will be insulated unlike most attic truss designs whereas the kneewall is the insulated wall.   I will move that insulated portion to the eve side of the room allowing me with approximately 5' of useable space behind the regular kneewall  for storage.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2325-1_zpsf1099e06.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2325-1_zpsf1099e06.jpg.html)

I still have a couple of small walls to frame in one remaining area and then I will move onto the plumbing, wiring and insulation phase. 
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm (toilet flange)
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 03, 2014, 06:48:00 AM
I had mentioned this plumbing alternative in another members thread where he was working close to a floor joist and didn't have sufficent room for setting the flange for the needed distance from the commode and adjoining wall..  Shortly after laying out my bathroom I found that I was experiencing a similar delimia.  I picked up this offset flange to get away from the floor joist(bottom cord of the truss).  Just thought others may run into the same problem and this may be solution.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/scenes/country%20plans/IMG_2329-1_zpsf4b65252.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/scenes/country%20plans/IMG_2329-1_zpsf4b65252.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/scenes/country%20plans/IMG_2328-1_zps92ff4c00.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/scenes/country%20plans/IMG_2328-1_zps92ff4c00.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm (Will it hurt?)
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 09, 2014, 02:05:42 PM
Have a question I wanted to throw out to those interested.  When I ordered my trusses they were ordered with a 12" overhang.  On the outside this was used for soffit, guttering and etc...   But on the inside wall toward the house only a portion (both ends) were used to tie into an adjoining roof.  That roof was the breezeway roof which seperates the house from the garage.  The demensions of that is 10' .  So in essence I have a bonus room although not grand in scale but somewhere around 8' X 20' roughly.  Of course I will have to construct a kneewall on both ends but should end up with a room about 16' long. 

Cutting to the chase.  Can anyone see any problem with cutting the end of the rafters back some to give me more room.  Another aspect that I left out up above is that the apartment floor is elivated some 24" above this bonus room.  Therefore I will need to construct a set of stairs.  Conventional stairs will extend out into the room too far.  I was going to build a small landing and run the stairs 24" ( not code) parrallel to the lengthwise demensions or perpendicular to the rafter tails.  Just taking a plumb cut of 8" would really help.  Or how far could I safely go?  The rafter will have at lease 4" extending over the wall of the garage for which they rest upon.   I know that pictures is worth a thousand words so here are a few.

Picture from the storage area behind the kneewall of the garage apartment.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2344-1_zpse90a62e4.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2344-1_zpse90a62e4.jpg.html)

Picture from the same general area toward the end of the garage.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2346-1_zpse0349024.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2346-1_zpse0349024.jpg.html)

Picture from that bonus room of the rafter tails & garage wall looking from under the sheeting to the rafter tails. I will continue to utilize this area as a wire chase for the garage apartment. The short kneewall which is seen at the end is the wall for the breezeway rafter to rest on which is 90 deg from the garage trusses.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2347-1_zpscdbbaec7.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2347-1_zpscdbbaec7.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: astidham on January 09, 2014, 04:30:53 PM
Hey John,
When I bought my trusses a few weeks ago, I had them built with a 24 inch overhang.
I asked the engineer about shortening the overhang, he said I could cut the overhang (only) flush up to, but not touching the bottom chord.
If I am answering your question right ?
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 09, 2014, 05:17:51 PM
Hey John,
When I bought my trusses a few weeks ago, I had them built with a 24 inch overhang.
I asked the engineer about shortening the overhang, he said I could cut the overhang (only) flush up to, but not touching the bottom chord.
If I am answering your question right ?

Todd my bottom cord actually stops at the outside of the wall.  There is a pressed plate connecting it with the top cord or rafter which actually sits on the wall.  So  ???
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: astidham on January 09, 2014, 05:41:38 PM
John, how I understood my truss engineer,  I could cut the rafter overhang back to the truss plate, leaving no overhang at all.
If I can remember, I will call him tomorrow to verify.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 09, 2014, 05:53:05 PM
John, how I understood my truss engineer,  I could cut the rafter overhang back to the truss plate, leaving no overhang at all.
If I can remember, I will call him tomorrow to verify.

I was sort of thinking that because the ends of the rafters are not sitting on anything anyway.  I have and will remain to keep the sheeting inplace up until that point so nothing should move.  Just thinking two heads are better than one. Maybe someone else will chime in.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Don_P on January 09, 2014, 08:12:54 PM
Yes, you can cut any or all of the overhanging tail off but cannot cut any of the metal truss plate or anything inboard of that plate. If you look at the loads on each joint on your truss diagram, usually in the left column under the drawing, that particular heeljoint plate carries the highest tensile load in a typical truss.

Just for basic info each square inch of that metal plate is good for 80-100 lbs of shear, and there is a plate on both sides so double that. The size of the plate is a quick indicator of the magnitude of the load at a given joint. And those little teeth can flat out ruin your day  :P
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 10, 2014, 04:41:07 AM
Thanks.  Sort of knew that in a laymans thinking.  The plates are 6X10.  The numbers that I am seeing that you referred to is

TCLL    30.0
TCDL   10.0
BCLL    0.0
BCDL   10.0

I would imagine that since the trusses were spec'd for 2.0 OC and I changed them to 16"OC  the loads would have probably decreased at various points throughout. How much I guess would have to be figured out if it was important enough at this stage.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Don_P on January 10, 2014, 09:08:29 AM
It isn't, just basic info on how to read the truss sheet. The section I was referring to is probably just below that section... but I'm glad you posted that. There is a problem though, double check the BCLL number. That is the bottom chord (ceiling/floor) allowable live load... zero? If so this truss is meant to support the ceiling underneath only and has no capacity as a floor. If it's meant for storage it would probably have a number like 20 psf and if for a floor 30 or 40 psf. I must be missing something, it looks like a fairly deep, 2x8 or 2x10 bottom chord, and it's in an attic truss configuration?
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Don_P on January 10, 2014, 01:57:35 PM
John, I sent this email back after seeing your truss print but copied here for others;

There we go, see note 5... 40 psf live load, throw a party :)

More general info;
Under forces look at Bot Chord B-P, that is the tension at that heeljoint plate... 1849 lbs tension, actually that is the tensile load all along the bottom chord. 16/24 x 1849=1233 lbs
tension at your spacing, so under full load there is a heavy half ton
of pull on those truss plates. The top chord and web member have over
a ton of compression in places but those are wood to wood compressions
so the plates are really just holding the wood in alignment in those
places.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 10, 2014, 02:06:51 PM
Thanks Don.  I was about ready to cut & paste so as not to discourge others from using them if the application called for them.  BTW I sent you an E-mail back.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Don_P on January 10, 2014, 05:32:15 PM
Yes, I encourage people to use them, it makes a good fast building with an upper floor. One trick a friend showed me is to order them as cantilevered attic trusses with a 2' overhang. In that configuration the rafters spring from the overhang rather than the wall making the room inside wider. It is at the expense of making the roof taller and the truss usually has piggyback hats at that point where yours were one piece... never a free lunch. I've mentioned it a few times, I think someone could dry in a house in a week with Superior walls topped by attic trusses.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: dablack on January 13, 2014, 09:54:18 AM
Just to comment on the overhang.  My bottom cord extended 4.5' beyond the front wall and 1.5' beyond the back wall.  My build was 26' wide and the trusses were 32' long.  This gave me a 19' wide room upstairs.  I like attic trusses too, but I had a problem getting the sheathing on that 12/12 pitch roof.  8/12 would have been better (for me......)   I set the trusses myself with a skytrac over a three day weekend.  The first day I set 3 and that really worried me that I wasn't going to get done.  Then I got the hang of it.  2nd day I got around 10 done and then the 3rd day I got another 11 done.  I did the last three the morning before they came and picked up the skytrac!  I had 27 of them to do.  (2'OC covering 52')

Austin
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 22, 2014, 07:41:52 AM
A little progess on the apartment.  Got the shower temporialy installed.  Will have to wait until a little warmer temperatures (1F this morning) to permanently install due to adhesives and chaulking.  There is no heat in this area so it is basicly the same up there as it is outside.  In the picture you will notice a small alcove to the left which will be the toilet.  The sink which is a pedestal will sit almost centered on the opposite wall as the shower midways of the wall.  The blocking is for the sink attachment, towel bar and combination sink light bar and Flatscreen TV on the family room/kitchen area on opposing side of the bathroom wall(facing).  It is a 2X8 backer top of the screen hiding part of the shower wall. 

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2360-1_zps5e8409ee.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2360-1_zps5e8409ee.jpg.html)

Also got approximately 90% of the Rafter Mate air channels installed.  The outlet near the ridge vent is 16" above the bottom chord of the ceiling portion of the rafter.  I plan on using R-30 which is 9-1/4" so there is no worry about covering the outlet of the vents. The electrical outlet box centered high on the kneewall is for lighting in the storage area.  That is if I can find a good 4' flourescent unit that is worth taking home.  That is the safest to use there so you will not hit your head on a low hanging incandesent bulb.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2364-1_zpsa9aa064b.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2364-1_zpsa9aa064b.jpg.html)

Still have to work out a small problem with the kitchen cabinets.  The end wall where the doorway to the outside is located is only 50" on each side of the door before turning direction into the rest of the apartment.  I have 2-26" corner units complete with Lazy Susans for each side.  But that creates a problem with my desire to place the cookstove & refrigerator on each side of the door.  I did look and was able to get an apartment range I believe it has a 20" width which might work but I was really wanting a ful size stove.  I have committed the sink to the wall with the large storage area behind as the vent pipe for it has already been installed.  I could move a full size stove to the opposite wall but that would interupt the majority of the large bank of cabinets. Even moving both the range and frig to the sidewalls that still leaves me in a delimia that I don't have a base cabinet 24" wide to take up the space on the end wall with the corner unit.  I guess I will figure it out even if I have to transform a upper cabinet unit to a base unit.  I can't run the recepticles in the kitchen until I figure this out. 

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2043-1.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2043-1.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm (Lighting Options)
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 28, 2014, 12:45:51 PM
Starting to rethink my lighting options for the kitchen area.  With a ceiling light centered in the room (12'W) it is basicly centered in the ceiling 6' width.  With kitchen cabinets against each kneewall I think that it may not cast enough light on the countertop expecially when you are standing in front of the cabinets working as you will essentially block the light.  I have thought that maybe track lighting installed on the sloped wall higher might work better.  The sloped wall is almost 40 deg slope from the kneewall to the ceiling and is 4' tall.  I could always use a regular ceiling light for general lighting but the track light would be better for task work at the sink and range area.   Has anyone ever considered or done this? 
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: MountainDon on January 28, 2014, 04:12:52 PM
My personal preference is for a general illumination ceiling light plus, under the cabinet lights to better illuminate work areas. We have only counters around the walls under the cabinets.  A ceiling light with wall switch in a kitchen is a code requirement I believe.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 28, 2014, 04:25:03 PM
My personal preference is for a general illumination ceiling light plus, under the cabinet lights to better illuminate work areas. We have only counters around the walls under the cabinets.  A ceiling light with wall switch in a kitchen is a code requirement I believe.

I would use the under cabinet lights Don if in fact I could install them.  With attic truss the best I can do is base cabinets.  No upper cabinets can be installed.  I will have a ceiling light but I am afraid that will just not be enough to the counter area.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: MountainDon on January 28, 2014, 05:48:53 PM
 d*   never thought of that....  track lights sound better than just a ceiling light.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Windpower on January 29, 2014, 04:37:52 AM

Maybe install 'under cabinet' LED lights on the sloped wall above  the base cabinets

If you are interested I can find out what my electricians are installing (tomorrow I think) as under counter lights --- they are inexpensive IIRC 

Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 29, 2014, 05:46:16 AM
Maybe install 'under cabinet' LED lights on the sloped wall above  the base cabinets

If you are interested I can find out what my electricians are installing (tomorrow I think) as under counter lights --- they are inexpensive IIRC

Not real sure how they would function as they are made to direct the light verticle which would be away from the immediate area that was needed.  That is why I was thinking "track" as I could adjust the light to that area.  Would be interested in seeing what you are installing though.  Maybe a possibility. Thanks for keeping me in mind.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Don_P on January 29, 2014, 11:21:05 AM
I think the lowest profile that might provide some downlight in a place like that might be something like an eyeball puck light of some sort. That would be a surface mount low profile led type light. By the time you get above head level a light would be behind you for most light types and I fear a track fixture where it would be in front of you would be too high profile and would get banged alot. We have done a garage apt with a kitchen like you're doing and it just has a center mounted ceiling fixture. It has worked but I've noticed a lamp on the countertop before. A sconce on a sidewall might help too if there is a sidewall close enough.
edit: a quick google, something along these lines?
http://www.allmodernoutlet.com/nora-lighting-mini-xenon-eyelid/?gclid=CKvUwaudpLwCFSUS7Aodql4Axg
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 29, 2014, 01:56:06 PM
I think the lowest profile that might provide some downlight in a place like that might be something like an eyeball puck light of some sort. That would be a surface mount low profile led type light. By the time you get above head level a light would be behind you for most light types and I fear a track fixture where it would be in front of you would be too high profile and would get banged alot. We have done a garage apt with a kitchen like you're doing and it just has a center mounted ceiling fixture. It has worked but I've noticed a lamp on the countertop before. A sconce on a sidewall might help too if there is a sidewall close enough.
edit: a quick google, something along these lines?
http://www.allmodernoutlet.com/nora-lighting-mini-xenon-eyelid/?gclid=CKvUwaudpLwCFSUS7Aodql4Axg

Don I have 5'6" at the intersection of the kneewall and the sloped ceiling.  Given that the base cabinets are 24" deep I can't envision knocking into them.  I have to go to Roanoke in the next couple weeks and that will give me an oppurtunity to check at the big box stores to see what is available.  Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: glenn kangiser on January 29, 2014, 08:22:32 PM
Looks good, John..... I gotta get in here and see what is going on a bit oftener... :)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Windpower on January 30, 2014, 06:51:41 AM


They are putting in Fluid View

Looks like ~$170 for 16 feet

http://www.lightingandlocks.com/di-0001.html
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 30, 2014, 07:01:01 AM

They are putting in Fluid View

Looks like ~$170 for 16 feet

http://www.lightingandlocks.com/di-0001.html

Thanks Windpower but it looks like that is under the counter strip lighting and I don't think it will work for my application.  Wish I could put upper cabinet in.   :(
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on February 24, 2014, 01:23:10 PM
Anyone out there have a "drywall stretcher" that I could borrow.   >:(.  In my preparatrion of the next couple steps in the building process I thought I would take a little closer measurement on the spaces I am going to drywall.  The kneewall heigth is 5'8" .  The sloped ceiling is 49 1/2"  :(.  The ceiling is 68".  No problem on the kneewall & ceiling but I am coming up short on the width of my drywall on the sloped ceiling.  Putting a 1&1/2" piece is not an option. Even attaching it verticle ( 1/2 sheet still short)  I am not particularly intrested in buy 12' length sheet and cutting 49-1/2" twice and have a remaining 45" left over.   One option which I haven't given much thought to is cutting the drywall a tad wider for the ceiling and then bevel the portion where it meets the sloped ceiling suds.  Major PIA but would gain me a 1/2" or so.  But if I did that then I would have to bevel the top of the sheet of the sloped ceiling so that the two faces would meet to mud & tape. I have learned a long time ago that when you alter the straight edge you get a less than perfect fit and I don't want to end up with a wavy joint.  These joints are hard enough to get straight even if everything fit perfectly.

I had intentions of using 5/8" for the ceiling.  If I even went with 5/8" on the kneewall and sloped ceiling I would not gain a significant amount to make up for the shortage.  I may have to add a wooden strip in the cavity and then use some type of molding to cover that area.  But I doubt that I can find anything stock which has a 39-40 deg bevel on one face.  It would have to be handmade custom for that.

Guess I will have to ponder on this a while.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Windpower on February 24, 2014, 02:52:16 PM


They used 'stretch dry wall' on the downstairs that has 9' ceilings --it was 4.5 feet  wide -- not sure if it would help .....
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: MountainDon on February 24, 2014, 03:24:34 PM
http://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/drywall/panels/1-2-x-54-x-12-super-wide-light-weight-drywall/p-1934629-c-5656.htm
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on February 24, 2014, 04:25:19 PM
http://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/drywall/panels/1-2-x-54-x-12-super-wide-light-weight-drywall/p-1934629-c-5656.htm

Yes I know it is available.  But locally I am not sure that I can get it.  I did look at Lowes site and they do not offer it unless it is something they have in the store and not on the site.  I have one more place to check.  In fact they were where I was going to get the drywall.  Not that I normally shop there but they have a drwall craine so I can have them shoot it into the end door.  Thanks for the suggestions.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on February 27, 2014, 02:40:10 PM
Well Don are you coming this way any ways soon?  If so you can bring me about 8 sheets from Menards.  I checked the price at a Building Supply in Lewisburg and their price was $22.99 a sheet.   d*   Regular 1/2 X 4 X 12 is $12.99.  Can't convence me there is $10 more material in 6" of product.  Give or take a few dollars and that is almost double for a regular width sheet. 

Oh and BTW pick me up about 50' of 6/3WG wire for the range.  $2.79 per foot.

I did check Menards site you gave me and it was $15.49.

Look at it this way it could be a trial run for your new trailer.   ;)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: MountainDon on February 27, 2014, 03:45:23 PM
No road trip east of the Mississippi this year.  And there's no Menards here; I just had them come up first in a search. Locally the only place I know of that has the wider sheets has no website.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: ChuckinVa on March 01, 2014, 04:31:16 AM
Well Don are you coming this way any ways soon?  If so you can bring me about 8 sheets from Menards.  I checked the price at a Building Supply in Lewisburg and their price was $22.99 a sheet.   d*   Regular 1/2 X 4 X 12 is $12.99.  Can't convence me there is $10 more material in 6" of product.  Give or take a few dollars and that is almost double for a regular width sheet. 

Oh and BTW pick me up about 50' of 6/3WG wire for the range.  $2.79 per foot.

I did check Menards site you gave me and it was $15.49.

Look at it this way it could be a trial run for your new trailer.   ;)

I'll check on the 6/3 on Monday when I get back to work. I can probably help you there. I think on the kitchen lighting I would put the overhead light in and then use the track above the base cabinets. You can get some pretty small fixtures these days and It will give you the most flexibility to putting the light were you need it. I usually put ceiling lights ( recessed) 1/2 on and 1/2 off the counter edge as that eliminates your shadow on the cabinet but sounds like that is not an option for you, CHUCK
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 01, 2014, 05:00:08 AM
Hey buddy it is a done deal.  I already got it pulled and installed.  I just figured once and awhile you just have to bite the bullet to keep it on time.  d* You know that I have a timeline of completion .  ;)

I am going to keep checking for some inexpensive tracks that are small and maybe use LED rather than incandescent.  Missed the auction over at Fishersville but am going to try to make it at Lewisburg the last of April.  They might have something.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Don_P on March 01, 2014, 07:03:20 PM
If it's worth a roadtrip you might want to check precision wallboard in roanoke.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 05, 2014, 07:17:23 AM
After much pondering on what to do on the drywall for the apartment I have come up with a solution.  At the price of the "stretched" drywall being as it is I decided to go with regular width X 12' drwall.  Instead of hanging it perpendicular to  the trusses I will hang it parrallel cutting the sheets to the desired length. The price being that I can almost buy an extra sheet for a few dollars more than one sheet of the wider (54").  Basicly I will end up with a 48" X 45" end piece which I can utilize in the storage area directly behind the kneewalls.  That area will be pieced together anyway with surplus pieces. Only real dowside of doing it in this fashion is that I will have more seams to tape.  But if there is an upside it will be that all the seams will be on the taper portion and no butt joints. :)

On a unrelated note I picked up a 1000' spool of 12/2 wire.  I noticed that this product was made in Mexico where as the previously purchased wire was made in the USA.  There does seem to be a difference in the outside coating which appears to be thinner but I think the interior wires are the standard guage "12" but maybe the inner coatings are lighter as well.  But that doesn't keep the cost down which I found out being at $.275 @ ft.   d*
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: MountainDon on March 05, 2014, 09:24:18 AM
.... upside it will be that all the seams will be on the taper portion and no butt joints. :)
.

I do prefer the tapered joints. Those I can do very well. Butts are a much harder thing for me.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 21, 2014, 03:46:50 PM
Today was hard to stay focused in the project at hand with the temperature near 60F after the past several months.   But I had several things that had to be done when the weather was decent pertaining to the garage.   When the garage was framed I allowed for two vent pipe penetrations in the roof.  Unfortuneately the contractor did not install them correctly in that they were not plumb and during the winter snows that followed after 2004 had pushed them further to the point that the boots were starting to leak.  So I replaced the boots and corrected their lean.

I run the vent pipe for the bathroom exhaust fan.  No simple task.  I did not want to vent it to the roof and my only other options was a soffit vent or wall vent.  The distance to the wall was 18 feet.  Due to the 16 OC rafters I could not get any pipe up there that was longer than 4' .  So I inserted Sch 20 pipe from the outside through the whole which would be a louvered dryer vent.  Easy not so much.  This had to be done on a 6' platform atop a 6' ladder while holding the 10' pipe some 15 feet above the ground.  Thank goodness it was only Sch 20 and not Sch 40.  I also had to add a couple 22 deg fitttings to make it up over the ceiling rafters from the location of the fan.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_4973-1_zps02416529.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_4973-1_zps02416529.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_4975-1_zps7e4b6cbc.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_4975-1_zps7e4b6cbc.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_4970-1_zps69911522.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_4970-1_zps69911522.jpg.html)

I have managed to get all the slanted walls insulated with R19 and about 1/3 of the ceiling with R30.  I still have the remaining ceiling to do as well as the endwall which will be either R13 or R15.  The slanted walls or trusses were insulated to a length of 15'8".  By doing it this full length I will not have to insulate the kneewalls and the storage area behind them will be conditioned space.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_4966-1_zps430ec482.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_4966-1_zps430ec482.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_4967-1_zps762141bf.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_4967-1_zps762141bf.jpg.html)

I have more or less decided on a heat system for the apartment.  I am going with a Mitsubishi Mini-Split heatpump which will heat and air condition the apartment.  I had gotten an estimate on two floor air handlers and a 20,000 BTU pump.  I started looking on line and found that for the same price I could get the same system except it will be 42,000 BTU (3.5 ton) and I will have 4 air handlers.  The additional two will be in my shop and the garage immediately under the apartment.  I had inquired whether the unit could be recessed in the wall some.  As I have access doors on either side of where the handlers will be placed.  I needed 2" more depth so that the handlers would not restrict my access into the storage area. No problem he said.  So I removed the small wall while I was awaiting a factory rep to call on the actual depth it would be recessed.  He said they can not be recessed "per se" but they can be enclosed in a framed grated box to give the appearence of being recessed in the wall. The most efficent air handler is a wall unit which mounts high on the wall but with the attic truss this wasn't possible so I opt'd for a standing floor unit.  So I figured out that by adding 1 more 2X to the door framing would give me sufficent room.  Only down side is that my door will be 22-1/2" wide where as it was suppose to be 24"  I still think a decent size tote will fit through the opening.  Here is the location of the air handlers with some additional blocking.  Oh yeah I had to rebuild those two walls again after learning I could not recess.  Sawzall's are my friend.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_4972-1_zps3d04b266.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_4972-1_zps3d04b266.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: dablack on March 24, 2014, 03:48:35 AM
That is going to be really cool! (ha!  HVAC joke)

Really though, I love the minisplits.  Can't wait to see how it goes. 

Also, great work on the vent pipe!  I hate roof penetrations and have thought about how I was going to get the run of PVC through the trusses.  I had only thought of putting it up there when I was setting the trusses (had a skytrak rented), but obviously, that isn't the only chance to do it.  I would have never thought to slide it in from the outside.  I would have cut it and then joined it back or something like that.  Nice job!
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 24, 2014, 04:06:25 AM
That is going to be really cool! (ha!  HVAC joke)

Really though, I love the minisplits.  Can't wait to see how it goes. 

Also, great work on the vent pipe!  I hate roof penetrations and have thought about how I was going to get the run of PVC through the trusses.  I had only thought of putting it up there when I was setting the trusses (had a skytrak rented), but obviously, that isn't the only chance to do it.  I would have never thought to slide it in from the outside.  I would have cut it and then joined it back or something like that.  Nice job!

Well like a lot of other occurances it did not go as planned the first time around.  I slid the full section through first, attached the dryer vent, put the siding back up and then realized that I had another 6 feet.  There was no way to get it up in the cavity.  So it was time to start over again, taking the siding off & dryer vent. The 6' was way easier than the 10' section.  All in all a little bump .  Maybe I needed  c* .   The exhaust manufacturer recommended 4" and my alternatives were limited in that you should not use flexible dryer line because moisture will get caught in the crevices.  Aluminum pipe in sections would be too expensive in comparison to the Thinwall PVC.   I do have a slight pitch to the pipe so the moisture should exit it to the outside. 

Yes the HVAC.  I have racked my brains trying to figure out a system independent from the house.  Gas furnace, heatpump but with a convientional set up I would be over my sub panel capacity .  The Mini-split is only a 25 amp so that will work out better.  I also hadn't planned on the garage & workshop as part of the apartment heat but it seems that I may now include those without coming up with something else for those area's.  The cool thing ( no pun intended)is that I can operate them independently of each other.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: dablack on March 24, 2014, 05:51:09 AM
So four air handlers and 3.5 tons.  How many sqft is each air handler handling?  Where are you getting the system? 

thanks
Austin
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 24, 2014, 06:32:21 AM
So four air handlers and 3.5 tons.  How many sqft is each air handler handling?  Where are you getting the system? 

thanks
Austin

The apartment was sized by a HVAC contractor at 2-9,000 BTU's.  I just went on line and found a calculator for the garage and shop and figured that 12,000 BTU on each would be good enough (close).  The site was http://www.younits.com/
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: astidham on March 24, 2014, 07:28:33 AM
you are moving along good John!
cant wait to see the mini unit installation.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 04, 2014, 08:53:33 AM
No matter how I figure it is not going to work.    ???   It looks like I am going to have to upgrade my house from a 200 AMP to a 400 AMP Service.  What really put me over was the garage apartment.  If it were just lighting and recepticles I would be ok but.......

When I built the addition on the house I moved my laundry room (dryer) to the addition, installed a couple of baseboard heaters, then the lights, recepticles .  Well that was OK to as I put a 100 AMP subpanel to take care of these in the garage below the apartment.  Now comes the apartment which will require a 50 AMP range, 40 AMP heat pump and additional hotwater heater 30 AMP, bathroom heater, Microwave, light and recepticles.  Need I say more.   :(

Oh yeah I forgot.  I still have the workshop to put on that circuit. Table saws, drill press, planner, shaper and other misc.. tools. 
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: ChuckinVa on April 06, 2014, 05:49:41 PM
I'm sending you a PM.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 14, 2014, 04:24:21 PM
Well I took the week off.  No not really.  I had promised the kids a year or so ago that I would build them a hutch for their pigs.  So this week I decided it needed done as they will be getting their pigs at the end of the month.  I had already had five of the 8 post set before hand.  I set three additional post.  These were a good 8-9" in diameter.  Actually they were telephone poles in their past life.  Anyway I attached ledger and in intermediate floor joist and added a wooden floor.  Next was the roof and then the sides.  I had the majority of the materials salvaged over the years.  I think I spent about $150 total for mostly pressure treated lumber for ground contact material.  I did have to go to the local muber yard and pick up some rough cut "barn grade" lumber for the floor and a portion of the sides .  Well here is some pictures.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/farm/100_4978-1_zps0a16a761.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/farm/100_4978-1_zps0a16a761.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/farm/100_4983-1_zps0fad1709.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/farm/100_4983-1_zps0fad1709.jpg.html)

The floor and part of the sides didn't take too long with the use of these wide boards.  It is not very often you see a 18-1/2" board.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/farm/100_4979-1_zpsc4ab9606.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/farm/100_4979-1_zpsc4ab9606.jpg.html)

There is a door that gets put on the front.  Actually it is leaning against the fence to the left of the Hutch in front of the water tank.  Need to pick up a set of hinges when I go to town for it.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/farm/100_4985-1_zpsc818e0fe.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/farm/100_4985-1_zpsc818e0fe.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/farm/100_4984-1_zps77e98ce6.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/farm/100_4984-1_zps77e98ce6.jpg.html)

Hopefully about another day and I can get back to the project at hand which is the apartment and installing the Mini-split HVAC system.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: pocono_couple on April 15, 2014, 01:54:41 AM
looks like a great design..  they should be very content pigs!
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: astidham on April 15, 2014, 02:05:46 PM
Very Nice John!
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 17, 2014, 05:01:40 AM
One more chore I can mark off my list.  Pig pen is done.    :)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/farm/100_4990-1_zps19e7ef0d.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/farm/100_4990-1_zps19e7ef0d.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: John Raabe on April 17, 2014, 05:25:00 AM
Nice sturdy building. That gate looks particularly porker proof!
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 17, 2014, 05:41:45 AM
Nice sturdy building. That gate looks particularly porker proof!

Thanks John.  The gate is rough cut 2X's which sandwich the wire panel.  The complete building is a little overkill but most of the materials were free so why not.  It's always good to build things when accuracy is not so much important.  Some of the post were set a little off but all in all it did turn out pretty good.  My son said he wished I would have made it a little taller so that it could be used as a "bull pen".   ;)

It is a far cry from what it once was. Should increase the well being of the animals as well.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/farm/100_1119-1.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/farm/100_1119-1.jpg.html)

The sturdiness of the gate would really be needed for these little fellows as you could keep them in a clothes basket but later on when they get this size you need something a little more substantial.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/farm/100_2057-1.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/farm/100_2057-1.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: MountainDon on April 19, 2014, 02:57:31 PM
  It is not very often you see a 18-1/2" board.


Where we live it's not often you see a tree 18 1/2" in diameter let alone a board.    ;D
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 24, 2014, 12:13:15 PM
Well today was a little more productive than yesterday.  Had equipment malfunction.  When your Hole saw bits fail your are sort of dead on the water when it comes to cutting holes for refrigerant, electric and drain lines for the new Mitsubishi system.  Had two that the mandrel just wouldn't tighten up and the arbor kept free spinning inside the cutting bit.  Worse part was that I couldn't remove it from the blade bit either.  So this morning I took it to a friend of mine that has a garage and he welded it tight.  Can still remove the mandrel as it is needed for the other cutting blades.  Anyway I got all the holes cut.  I have to admit it was a better job than the one that I seen at a friends house that was done by the Company that oiginally gave me the estimate.

Seems the installers felt it was better to notch out the studs and top plate rather than drill holes with a s hole saw.  The end result is that he has about 4 studs all in a row which were notched at least 3/4 of their original 5-1/2" width.  Just wonder if the roof will ever sag?   d*

Got the two air handlers mounted to the garage & shop wall below the apartment.  It will be sometime before I get around to finishing this area but I wanted to make use of them in the meantime.  So I used 1/2" ply of the same shape as the air handlers then mounted to nailers in between the original studs.  I let the nailers protrude about 1-1/2" beyond the air handler/plywood demensions.  This will allow me to later drywall around the air handler without removing it as the 1/2 ply is the same demensions as the drywall thickness.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_4997-1_zps4ac4bd56.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_4997-1_zps4ac4bd56.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_4994-1_zps18599a9b.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_4994-1_zps18599a9b.jpg.html)

The drywall will have to be installed to the dormer walls before I can mount the air handlers to those.  Here  is the location of those handlers one being at each dormer space.  I had to modify the storage access doors width in the dormer space so the doors would not hit the air handlers.  Just a matter of adding another 2X to the rough framing which will cut down on the doorway opening but not by more than 1-1/2" after adding the 3/4" facia board.  I still should end up with a 22-1/2" wide door.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_4999-1_zps7078c059.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_4999-1_zps7078c059.jpg.html)

Well off to mow the grass (hit & miss) for the first time this year and ready the camper for a weekend outing.  Annually we camp in a remote area ( no actual sites)of the National Forest for a weekend of digging ramps, having a huge ramp feed fixed every imaginable way and play music to the wee hours of the morning.   :) [hungry] 
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: MountainDon on April 28, 2014, 01:15:51 PM
So was the weather good for "ramping"   ;D
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 28, 2014, 01:58:22 PM
So was the weather good for "ramping"   ;D

Great weather Don.  Pretty hard rain on Friday but by the time I made it on the Mountain it was just a drizzle.  Stopped long enough to get the camper set up then the wind started.  But we all pitched in and got the canopy's up and the sidewalls.  Then supper after cleaning a few that one of the others dug before I got there.  After a 5 star supper of Fried ramps, fried ramps& potatoes, and ramps & scrambled eggs. Then the music till the wee hours.  I turned in a little early(midnight) but they continued until about 2am.  Fell asleep listening to some good tunes.   

Then Saturday I must have cleaned a couple bushel while others dug.  But Saturday & Sunday the temps in the daytime were 65-70F with a slight breeze. Perfect for doing nothing but eating.  ;) 

If you recall your trip across the Scenic Highway we were about 2 miles east of it and about 8 miles before the Visitor Center. 

Had a great time.  Well needed break. ;D
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: pocono_couple on April 28, 2014, 03:16:53 PM
hate to sound ignorant.. but can you tell me what a ramp is?   sounds like we missed a good time!  jt
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 28, 2014, 03:55:54 PM
hate to sound ignorant.. but can you tell me what a ramp is?   sounds like we missed a good time!  jt

jt it is a cross between a onion, garlic and a leak.  It grows in the wild in early spring usually a couple weeks after the snow has melted.  So they were not around when you were here.   Hard to explain but in the mountains it is a pretty big deal this time of the year. It is normally a acquired taste.  We use them in anything that you use onions in and a whole lot more. They are eaten raw, cooked, canned and frozen.

Here is a couple of pictures of some dug & in the ground

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/scenes/country%20plans/100_3898-1.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/scenes/country%20plans/100_3898-1.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/scenes/country%20plans/100_3904-1.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/scenes/country%20plans/100_3904-1.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: MountainDon on April 28, 2014, 04:15:02 PM
They are a kind of strong taste but we did the enjoy the fried potatoes and ramps we first cooked up; I did hold back on the quantity of ramps somewhat I think. Then ramps in an omelet with cheese and ramps and fried ham were tried and enjoyed.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Don_P on April 28, 2014, 04:43:45 PM
Occassionally you stumble into quite a patch, Michelle was here this morning  ;D
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftimbertoolbox.com%2Fsketches%2Frampvalley.jpg&hash=99e324ee9ef1c54b3a5c2465b27fdfee3b003168)
I hauled several hundred pounds to market last year from this area. There is no hiding what you've been up to when you get out of a car full of ramps. It is one of the non timber forest product crops we're going to try to get folks to grow in the woods here. With more small forest landowners and their desire to not harvest timber this is one way to grow something for sale in the woods. There's a lot of stuff at your feet. I'm hoping for morels on the tail of this rain.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 28, 2014, 05:14:00 PM
Nice patch Don.  You have to rotate your crops so to speak.  Don't pick in the same patch every year or before long like everything else they will be wiped out. Bad thing about National Forest is that you have no control over who or how much they dig in certain areas. I have seen a couple patches completely wipped out to the point that it will be several years before they regain that area if then.  BTW retail in the markets was $3.59 a Pound the last I noticed.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on June 03, 2014, 04:30:05 PM
Spent the last couple of days finishing the rough in on the Mini Split system. 

No it's not a spider.  It the 8 refrigerant/liquid lines coming to the outside unit.  I bought the closest length line sets that I needed for each run so there will be some waste.  They will need to be cut to length and flared again.   Not a conventional install for this type system.  Most are single units ran through the outside wall and down to the outside unit.  But since I am putting in 4 units it makes it a little neater job.  But running all the lines turned out to be a real pain.  The 1/4" lines were pretty flexible but the 3/8" lines were harder making the bends and turning through the partitions and plate.  It would have been nice to have a helper.  Several trips up & down to get the insulated lines worked to the exit point from the upstairs.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_5013-1_zps2f3faf23.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_5013-1_zps2f3faf23.jpg.html)

Inside chase of the line sets and communications wire.  I centralized all the lines to one area so if the need to preform repairs they could be easily located.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_5016-1_zpsdf292dab.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_5016-1_zpsdf292dab.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_5018-1_zps18d49441.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_5018-1_zps18d49441.jpg.html)

Only portion that remains is running the 3/4" drain lines.  Hopefully my HVAC guy will show up in the next couple of days, re-flare the lines,  vacuum the lines and charge them. 
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: MountainDon on June 03, 2014, 05:00:31 PM
That will be  [cool]  John    8)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: dablack on June 04, 2014, 04:12:57 AM
Looks like we lost the 3rd picture. 

The first two pics look great.  Thanks for the run down on the line length and difficulties. 

Austin
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: pocono_couple on June 04, 2014, 05:07:02 AM
Hi john,
   good to  see an update...  and to know that you are still hard at work!   grass looks a little greener than when we visited..    let us know if there is a chance that you are headed north this  summer..  jt
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on June 04, 2014, 07:32:30 AM
JT I would really love to take a trip in your direction but it seems the summer is almost over for me as it will probably be fall or winter before I can get everything done that I have on my "to do" list.  But I will definitely keep you in mind.

Austin sorry about the photo. It should be back on that post.   The internet last night could be classified as poor at best.  Wasn't really sure I could upload anything.  Yes the line set which consist of the two lines pre-insulatedand only come in specified lengths.  Just didn't want to take a chance on running short.  Never know going in and out of the chase holes and that stiff stuff.  So I err'd on the side of caution.  Like they say it is better to have too much than not enough. 
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on June 04, 2014, 03:08:54 PM
Another photo of one of the air handlers in the Mini Split system.  This is one of two in the apartment.  They are the floor models which was the only option I had since I didn't have sufficient wall height for the wall units that I post pictures of earlier.  I had to go ahead and put drywall on that one before I mounted them.  Well not really but it made for a nicer job not having to cut out around them. 

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_5022-1_zps6da43186.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_5022-1_zps6da43186.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: dablack on June 05, 2014, 03:10:28 AM
I'm really liking it.  So we have two upstairs and two down?  You are really getting them in there quick!
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on June 13, 2014, 04:59:03 AM
Finalized the installation of the Mini-Split system yesterday.  If it runs as it did during testing I am completely satisfied with the results.  I guess time will tell but it is ultra quiet in comparison with the 3.5 ton Trane unit that I have in the house.  A lot of nice features that will make fine tuning for individual rooms. 

Here is a picture of the outside unit after the lines were cut to length and connected.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2589-1_zps729d820b.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2589-1_zps729d820b.jpg.html)

Now I will have to get moving on the rest of the framing and drywall.  But not this weekend.  Having a music gathering at Dogtrot this weekend.  Time for some fellowship and relaxation.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: astidham on June 13, 2014, 12:02:21 PM
looks great John!
i might have to do the same type of hvac in my house...
the estimates I have been getting are unreal  :o
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Pine Cone on June 13, 2014, 07:25:01 PM
Looks like a lot of work!  After a decade in North California (Redding area) with an average of 40 days a year above 100 degrees Farenhite I'm happy to be in western Washington where we think it's hot if it gets into the mid 70's.  Not much need for air conditioning around here which suits me just fine.  Hottest day I remember in Redding was 117...  Hottest day around here, maybe 95.

Wish I could join you for your music gathering at the Dogtrot this weekend, but I'll settle for playing with the Washington Old Time Fiddlers tomorrow. 

Hope Steven is enjoying surveying.  My first summer foresty job involved almost two months of boundary line surveying with a staff compass and two-chain trailer tape (a 150 foot long metal tape which allowed for correction of slope distances almost automatically).  Lots of steep ground and we weren't trusted with chain saws so I got a lot of experience with a double bladed cruisers axe.  Most of the lines had not be surveyed since the late 1800s. 

The tools we were using were pretty similar to the ones used in the original survey 100 years earlier.  The only  thing that had changed was the tree names.  I learned that Oregon Pine in 1876 was Douglas-fir in 1976.  My father had a summer of surveying back in the late 1930s as well. 

Now it is all lasers, survey-grade GPS and fancy theodilites.  My survey prof at college had literally "written the book" and while he could be a jerk he really knew his stuff.  Still work with survey data on a regular basis, last time was yesterday...

Someday I hope to get out and visit and try some of those ramps!

Enjoy your weekend, it looks like you have earned it.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: MountainDon on June 13, 2014, 07:38:40 PM
Cool mix; the old squared off logs and modern A/C.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on September 12, 2014, 08:59:58 AM
Well it has been some time since I updated my progress with the apartment.  Trying to get my outside projects complete to beat the winter.  I guess in doing so I suffered a few setbacks.  I have had a disc problem with the lumbar region of my back off/on after surgery in 1995.  It comes and goes if I rest for a week or so and limit my activities.  Well it has been well over a month and still hasn't responded as it has in the past which is usually just a week at most.  Then to add to this I seemed to have developed a rotator cuff injury.  Can't figure that one out but the symptoms are all there with limited movement of my right arm above my shoulder.  I have an appointment the first of the week to access the damage and prognosis of treatment.  This getting old is for the birds. 

Anyway I have been trying to get a few things done.  Started framing the short knee wall in the storage areas of the apartment.  Sort of like trying to work in a coal mine.  A friend has been doing some construction and has saved all the 2X material he had left over which exceeded 12" in length.  I only had to purchase 8' 2X's for the base plates.  I just finished one side and have the other side yet to do.  I wanted to get this done before I started on the drywall.  Speaking of which I doubt that it will be anytime soon that I am able to start on that portion of the construction.  I guess as they say it just "depends" .

Here is a picture of that framing.  All the area will be drywall with the exception of a little triangle wall adjacent to the air handler which will be plywood for ease of removal if I ever have to preform maintenance on the equipment. The opposite wall adjoining will be drywall which is further away from the lines.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2834-1_zps52961271.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2834-1_zps52961271.jpg.html)

Also picked up a little forced air bathroom heater.  Got it roughed in.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2835-1_zpsd74d31c8.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_2835-1_zpsd74d31c8.jpg.html)

   
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: pocono_couple on September 12, 2014, 09:44:41 AM
Hi John,  sorry to hear about your back issues.. nothing like that to remind us just how vulnerable we are..   hope you will be on the mend soon...  a little down time is never a bad thing.. kind of forces us to re-evaluate priorities..  appreciate those around us.. important stuff like that!   take care,  jason
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 13, 2016, 04:05:36 PM
The time sure has flown by since my last post and the last time I had worked on the apartment.  I guess you could say this is my winter project.  Well I am back in the saddle again. I was also waiting for some additional funds to purchase the drywall.  All came to the tune of some $1200 .  Sure has increased since the last purchase of drywall when I was working on the cabin. Anyway I probably got the same price as Lowes but I had to go to a lumberyard because they were the only place I could find a boom truck for deliveries.  Not really that bad as they delivered the drywall on a load by itself for a mere $35 and traveled one way some 60 miles.  There was no way I could have moved it from the ground floor to the second floor without the boom.  It would be doubtful that I could carry 8' sheets up the stairs and make the turn at the top let alone 12' sheets.  Not to mention the extra labor of lugging all the sheets up the stairs. It still took me and my son about a hour to take it off the boom and stack it in three different location to avoid an excessive amount of weight on the truss's at one pile.  I borrowed a wheeled platform from my neighbor and attached 2 -2X6 to create a trough for the double wrapped sheets.  Easier than carrying then. 

This is one reason that I never finished installing the deck at the kitchen door.  This allowed the boom to set the sheets 1/2 way into the kitchen door.  Now when the weather breaks I can finish that chore as well.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_0125-1.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_0125-1.jpg.html)

My least favorite part of construction.  DRYWALL.  It is really not that bad if you have 90 deg walls but with the attic truss's in the apartment it can be challenging to say the least.  Part  of last week and this week was hanging the flat and sloped ceiling.  About another day and I can move on to the kneewall.

Anyway I have hung 13 sheets out of 56 of 4X12X1/2.  Oh I forgot I have 7 sheets of blue board for the bathroom that I still have to tackle but there is some plumbing that I need to do before it.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3844_zpszxuipcux.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3844_zpszxuipcux.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3846_zpsouz1kopd.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3846_zpsouz1kopd.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: MountainDon on January 14, 2016, 10:16:07 AM
Drywall is at the top of my list of "I'd rather not..." Competing with having a root canal done...

You changed something at that rear wall beside the door? 
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 14, 2016, 02:23:44 PM
You changed something at that rear wall beside the door?

No Don that was an older picture when the addition was under initial construction.  It was just the first picture I came upon in my library of photographs to illustrate the loft door. 

On an added note I got all the main sloped ceilings done and have moved on to the straight wall stuff. :)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Pine Cone on January 14, 2016, 08:54:33 PM
Looking good!   

At least you only have the easier straight walled sections to go...

Last time I had drywall to do l let someone else do it   d*
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 15, 2016, 03:19:33 AM
Looking good!   

At least you only have the easier straight walled sections to go...

Last time I had drywall to do l let someone else do it   d*

Well when I said I had all the sloped portions done wasn't entirely accurate.   I was talking about the main living area.  I still have the storage space behind the knee wall on each side to do.  But the level of finishing would not have to be so precise as it will be storage.  A lot of room back there for storage as they measure roughly 65"(knee wall) X 80"(ceiling) X 72"(floor).  I did basically the same in main part of the house and they are stuff full.  There are certain areas of the vertical walls of the main living area which I will have to hold off covering to enable me to get the sheets back into that small space.  If not I would have to cut the drywall in pieces no larger than 30" to get them through the access doors.  d*  These spaces would be what you call "conditioned " spaces as they will be insulated.  You can see these area on the right and left of the main room in the older photograph when it was being framed.   

There is just something about paying for something that I can do.  Am I comfortable doing it. NO. Can I do it.  YES But it is a lot cheaper than hiring someone else.  The price would be more than the price of the actual material so I will take my chances. $$$$$   ;D

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/000_0002-2.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/000_0002-2.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 21, 2016, 06:46:27 AM
Moving right along.  Going to tackle the bathroom wall which was thrown off by the inverted truss direction when framed. http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=14234.0.  Should be able to bring it back in line by padding it out. 

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2612_zpsrktlgk2k.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2612_zpsrktlgk2k.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2614_zps39jryfyn.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2614_zps39jryfyn.jpg.html)

I had a few more photo's but seems that photobucket is being contrary this morning.  The biggest challenge is maintaining a straight & level transition of the ceiling/sloped wall and the kneewall/sloped wall.  But as I have said before nothing a good mud man can't take care of.  ;)

Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 27, 2016, 04:13:03 PM
Yes I live in West Virginia but have never worked in the coal mines.  But I can sympathize with the old miners crawling around in a shallow mine trying to work.  I have been working on the storage spaces behind the knee walls.  They measure 61" tall, 65 " wide and have a 10/12 slope wall which is 80".  The measurements are deceiving in that the height is only 61" at the very peak.  My knees are telling me no more.  No to mention the numerous times I have hit my head crawling through the access door.  Here are a couple photo's demonstrating what the space actually looks like.  I haven't finished the ends yet as I will be using surplus material from the rest of the drywall being hung.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2622_zpsxaoyoixv.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2622_zpsxaoyoixv.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2619_zpsgdtwcdh2.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2619_zpsgdtwcdh2.jpg.html)

It is no small feat working alone with 12' sheets of drywall in a confined space.  There is not room for any type of drywall jack so you have to be a little inventive in your approach.  I found a couple methods.  Mainly using a ledger board and then using a hasp type piece of 3/4" stock attached to the ledger board which actually keeps the sheets from falling when you finally get them lifted and into place and rotate the wooden hasp.  I set the ledger 1" wider than the sheet which gives me room to maneuver the sheet to the proper fit. The way you have to hang them you cannot set your ledger to the exact width of the sheet like in a straight vertical wall.  Then I shim between the ledger and the drywall raising or closing the seam joint.   Here is a couple photographs demonstrating the procedure. 

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2620_zps1am5rs7y.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2620_zps1am5rs7y.jpg.html)

This photographs shows the wooden hasp strips of wood which are attached to the previous sheet and rafter so that once the sheet is in place you can just flip the hasp to keep it from falling out.  There is no way you could hold the sheet and attach a drywall screw to hold it in place.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2621_zpsgzwvykhz.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/100_2621_zpsgzwvykhz.jpg.html)

This has been a real slow process.  In two days I have completed two areas 1st being a 10' and 2nd being a 14'.  I still have another 14' 10' and the largest 22' areas to do. 
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on February 04, 2016, 06:12:45 AM
Finally all the crawlspace storage are almost done.  No small feat putting up the 12' sheets in the confined space but it is done.  Still have the end walls yet to do but that will be a piece of cake in comparison to the flat walls.  Everyone ask "why are you building so many storage spaces?"   My reply is that you never have enough storage space.  Although it has taken over a week on these I think it is well worth the time.   

On a unrelated note my Delta-Rockwell 10" table saw bit the dust.  Or at least the motor which is only a 240V 1-HP tri-belt. Never seen a motor with no more HP weigh so much.  I am estimating that it is at least 100#.   Not sure exactly sure what is wrong with it.  Windings, brushes, or something else.  Anyway I took it to Roanoke to a Armature repair shop and am waiting there diagnosis.  Actually I am not in the building stage but occasionally I run across something that needs modified or adjusted.  Boy I miss that saw.  Kind of hard ripping 2X material with a skill saw.  d*

Going to take a day or two off just to give my poor knees and back a rest.  I guess I will work on my 2015 Income tax paperwork.   :( 
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: pocono_couple on February 18, 2016, 03:22:56 PM
Hi John,   it has been a while since i last visited the site.. looks like you are making some progress..    good that you have so much patience!    drywall is tough enough when one has  a partner, but  3 times as challenging doing it alone..    we still have fond memories of  our visit with you..  think about that trip every time i use the  cutting board that we bought in town!    lots has changed since then.   i am no longer teaching..  we opted out of the "mainstream"  and  took jobs at a campground in Maine last summer.. totally loved it..   will be headed back in May..    in the meantime, we are still working on our house here   in bear creek, and working at a local amazon warehouse..   quite the experience ..   planning a new construction project  in Maine as soon as we can afford it..   good luck with finishing the  apartment!  jt
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on February 18, 2016, 03:42:29 PM
Hi John,   it has been a while since i last visited the site.. looks like you are making some progress..    good that you have so much patience!    drywall is tough enough when one has  a partner, but  3 times as challenging doing it alone..    we still have fond memories of  our visit with you..  think about that trip every time i use the  cutting board that we bought in town!    lots has changed since then.   i am no longer teaching..  we opted out of the "mainstream"  and  took jobs at a campground in Maine last summer.. totally loved it..   will be headed back in May..    in the meantime, we are still working on our house here   in bear creek, and working at a local amazon warehouse..   quite the experience ..   planning a new construction project  in Maine as soon as we can afford it..   good luck with finishing the  apartment!  jt

Hello Jason,  I had wondered what happened since I hadn't heard anything.  Sent you an E-mail but didn't get a reply so I figured you no longer used that address.  Wondered if you were able to get out on the sail boat this past summer.  I take it that your wife is not working at the orchard or maybe not in the winter months.

Yes the drywall has been challenging.  I started w/56 -12' sheets and 7=8' blue board sheets.  Well I am down to 4 -12' sheets.  You actually learn a lot of tricks when you work by yourself.  As the saying goes "the works starts in the finishing stage".  Not looking forward to that.  Getting ready to start heading down the stairs in the next week or so.  Will have to move what is left out the door and down to ground level because there is no way to get it down where it needs to go with the  design of the 2nd floor.  Just have to wait until the snow stops so I can take the plow off and put on the forks.

I guess since you are no longer at the school that you are not helping with Habitat concerning their transportation.  Well stay busy and live long.     
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: pocono_couple on February 18, 2016, 04:12:50 PM
thanks for the response, John..   no sailing this past summer..  the boat is sitting in the yard, waiting for more favorable times!    but.. lots of  kayaking, hiking, and biking  in acadia national park..   janet and i both left our jobs..  although we did help out at the orchard  for their fall festival.. got home from maine just in time for that..    lots of pics on my blog..   https://lifeat6mph.wordpress.com/     have not posted there either since we got back to pa, but i was pretty active on it during the summer months..      no more student trips..  that is one thing that i will particularly miss about  no longer teaching..   we had a lot of fun traveling to WV,  and  I took 7 trips to Maine with students  to work up there at  Chewonki...    those times were the highlight of my career..   

email..  cp23_1983@yahoo.com..   don't want to hijack your thread!     i bet you are happy that the pile of drywall is shrinking!      take care,   jt
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on February 19, 2016, 11:36:52 AM
Still hard at it.  Down to my remaining 4 sheets of drywall.  I was wondering if I had figured my drywall out and actually I did if they would have shipped the remaining 4 sheets I would probably have enough.  Well I will work with what I have and then pick up what I need.  No small task figuring the quantity needed when there is so many small spaces which have to be calculated.  Just round it up by sq ft and add the 10%.  I am real pleased by the waste that I have left from all the sheets.  Yes there is always waste but most of mine are small pieces.   Also I wondered how far the 35# bucket of drywall screws would last.  I can say that approximately 35# of 1-1/2" spaced at ten inches will do about 65 sheets.  I guess if you were wondering on smaller quantities this would give you some idea.

Anyway here are a few photographs of what is done.

Hallway looking from the kitchen to bedroom.  If you are wondering why I left one piece off the wall I have been waiting for a scrap the size that will work.  Hate to cut a full sheet for this one piece.  Odd ball 49-1/2" X 16.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3949_zpsilt4w70f.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3949_zpsilt4w70f.jpg.html)

View from the bedroom through to the kitchen. Bedroom closet to the right, back of the shower on stairwell wall and dormer cutout on the left.  I intentionally left these wall open so I can lay 2X & sheeting material to bridge the stairway to do that ceiling.  If I didn't all this would have to be done off a ladder.  Me, ladder and stairs do not get along that well. ;).  Once that ceiling is done there is nothing to prevent me from finishing that area.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3951_zpsldot57zd.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3951_zpsldot57zd.jpg.html)

One of the crawlspace storage areas.  In all there are 5 such areas.  All total excluding the stairs, dormer offsets there is 77 lineal feet in the storage areas.  To give you some perspective as to what size they are looking at the short knee wall to the left is 12", the end wall has a piece of 4' dry wall with additional width and height added to make it approximately 65" h and 60" w floor space

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3954_zpsdbj5w7ch.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3954_zpsdbj5w7ch.jpg.html)

Oh  yes the bonus room.  Sort of a mess with building material, antique furniture and insulation.  It will lead off the bedroom and is approximately 10'W X 18'L. Not sure of the intended use for this but I am sure it will not be wasted.  That is the original house end wall with the house wrap showing.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3959_zpsp9ljyvmk.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3959_zpsp9ljyvmk.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on February 23, 2016, 02:38:41 PM
Presently I am " dead in the water".  Out of drywall.  Out of Drywall screws.  Might be Friday before this weather clears up so that I can pick up both.  I do have some scraps suitable for a couple hours work in a closet but that's about it. 

Had to break out the "Drywall Stretcher" today.  Learned this little trick years ago.  When you are short on your piece and it is near a baseplate, ceiling or anywhere out of the middle of the sheet you can extend the sheet.  I use 1/2" OSB (or plywood) scrap about 2" in width and the length would depend on the opening.  Yes I could attach blocking to that area but this method works just as well and is a lot easier once insulation is in place and drywall covering the adjoining bays which would make nailing almost impossible.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3961_zpsdo8pmafi.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3961_zpsdo8pmafi.jpg.html)

 Attach the OSB (1/2 width) to the top of the larger portion of drywall.  Attach the larger piece to your studs then come back and add the smaller piece.  I use 1" drywall screws so they don't penetrate the OSB. Easy as you go attaching the piece to the OSB or you will push it loose.  The screws generally penetrate with minimal pressure.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3963_zpsw10iyiko.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3963_zpsw10iyiko.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3964_zpspmptgbet.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3964_zpspmptgbet.jpg.html)

Here is as far as I got on the stairs.  View looking from the bottom to the top. The wood at the top is the doorway opening/  Had to build a temporary scaffolding to work off of.  Once I get the lower sheets on I am going to have to come up with a different support system to finish the stairway. 

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3967_zpsnjp9hqox.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3967_zpsnjp9hqox.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Don_P on February 23, 2016, 06:37:33 PM
Tough weather to haul drywall in. I was doing porch ceiling framing today and stepped out and did a little soffit blocking on the overhang between rains, but we've been in and out of it. I need gravel but if I call now I'll need several truckloads just to get him in.

What did it turn out to be at the motor shop? Is this the old bullet shaped motor, if so it can work circles around a modern motor of the same rating. There is one in the old barn where I'm working that is down for now. The "starting necklace" is out of it. If it sounds similar and you have good luck, I want the name of the shop  ;)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on February 24, 2016, 02:38:35 AM
Tough weather to haul drywall in. I was doing porch ceiling framing today and stepped out and did a little soffit blocking on the overhang between rains, but we've been in and out of it. I need gravel but if I call now I'll need several truckloads just to get him in.

What did it turn out to be at the motor shop? Is this the old bullet shaped motor, if so it can work circles around a modern motor of the same rating. There is one in the old barn where I'm working that is down for now. The "starting necklace" is out of it. If it sounds similar and you have good luck, I want the name of the shop  ;)

I guess this is what they refer to as the "spring breakup".  I did venture up to the cabin to make a check and the road is mud & ruts.  Freeze, thaw, freeze, thaw and then the rain.  By May it will settle back down and pack solid again.  Yeah I am glad that I have been able to work inside the last couple weeks. 

Haven't heard from the shop yet.  From the looks of it when I was there it may be a while.  Motors scattered throughout.  No it isn't a bullet but more like a cannon with it's weight.  I will give you the address and phone # later.  It is off I-581 downtown across from the Railroad Shops.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 04, 2016, 10:11:13 AM
Finally reached this stage in the project.  All of the drywall has been hung.  All total there was 62 sheets of 4X12 and 11 sheets of 4X8.  I saved the best to last.  The stairs.  With the help of a friend we finished it yesterday.  The first couple of sheets including the ceiling and two courses below I had to build a makeshift platform but after that I could use the stairs.  I guess I will have to repeat the process when finishing and repair the screw holes as I work down to the ground floor.  Now let the fun begin. ;D  No those are not ripples in the wall board but light casting shadows from the stair which are not complete or sealed up.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3979_zpsc8vua8as.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_3979_zpsc8vua8as.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: azgreg on March 04, 2016, 11:07:06 AM
Drywalling that stairwell doesn't look like the least bit fun.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 04, 2016, 11:23:34 AM
Drywalling that stairwell doesn't look like the least bit fun.

Honestly it wasn't that bad.  The worse part was figuring out a way to work around the step issue.  Secondly handling the 12' sheets.  My neighbor whom I had been helping give me a hand so it went really fast.  Faster than the ceiling and the first couple sheets which I did solo.   ;)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on May 06, 2016, 10:47:11 AM
It's been a couple months since I last posted my progress.  After serious consideration I decided to have a professional finish the drywall.  Checked at the local "Tudors " restaurant being built in town and found a local person finishing the drywall.  He said he would do it when he finished that job.  Come to find out that he is not a perfect stranger and I had no idea that he finished drywall.  So I am on a waiting list with him now.  No hurry.  I figure that he could still get it done faster than me if I had to wait a month or two.  The angled ceiling is going to be a real pain to keep a straight line.  I managed to buy some reinforced drywall tape made specifically for that purpose which will help.

I did go ahead and finish off the storage areas behind the kneewall.  Maybe not a complete professional job given the steep angles in their ceiling and the majority had to be done lying down.  But once a coat of primer and paint is on it will be fine.  Shoot it is a extra closet and I will probably only access it a couple times a year.

Starting on the plumbing now.  Boy one does forget exactly how the main drops were installed in the floor to tie into the house line after 12 years. Yes I did take photographs which shows the install.  Probably not as many as I would have like to have taken but they were better than nothing.   Then I start guessing myself on whether I put enough fall in the lines.  There is  concrete floor covering them now.  Well I guess you could call this a "redneck check".  Using food coloring water I went to the furthest drop which was a toilet in the shop area.  I watched the colored water make its way to the main drop for the apartment that will feed into the house system.  Then to the basement where it will be connected and Yes red colored water appeared with no standing water.  So now I know that I at least got the line right. So as it stands there will be 2 toilets, kitchen sink, shower, bathroom sink and workshop sink in the new line.



 
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: MountainDon on May 07, 2016, 07:08:39 AM
Pictures are great. I take them and then half the time if I need to use them wish I had taken more and more detail.

I don't blame you for hiring out the drywall. Especially when it is not a simple square box.

Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on May 30, 2016, 06:02:48 AM
I spent part of last week on the plumbing.  Managed to get everything stubbed off at the floor level.  The runs are a little longer than I would have liked but to eliminate compromising the trusses it was my only option.   The main sewer line due to the size of the pipe (3") there was no way I could keep it up within the floor joist bay.  There was also the drain lines for the kitchen sink and bathroom sink which I had to lay the main line adjacent to the side wall.  These will have a bulk head built to conceal them later with access panels for the traps and clean out.  All the lines and traps for the additional sinks are contained up within the floor joist bay so other than 1 small trap access panel the ceiling will be flat and not require a bulk head to conceal them.

Here is the main toilet drop, shower, vent stack to the sidewall drop to the floor.  A lot to cram into a small space but with a little figuring and a lot of fittings I managed.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_4144_zpslzk8wnks.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_4144_zpslzk8wnks.jpg.html)

Here is the main drop.  I purposely used the 2" sink drops on top to force the more or less solids below the concrete floor level ( 90 deg elbow) which will travel to the main sewer line in the house basement some 10' away.  You may notice that I only have one water line present which is a cold supply line running parallel to the stack from the floor.  This ties into the main water line of the house.  The hot water supply is in the far top right which comes from the storage area under the stairs.  I plan to sit the hot water heater for the apartment in that area.  There is an additional cold water supply line to there.  In addition to the water drop under the stairs for the hot water heater there is a drain line for a utility sink as well as a toilet flange for a workshop toilet under the stairs.  I am sure my wife will appreciate that as I will not be tracking sawdust through the house when the need arises.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_4145_zpsdhijoakv.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/IMG_4145_zpsdhijoakv.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on July 02, 2016, 04:43:47 AM
Moving right along.  Finally got someone to finish out the drywall.  The person that I originally intended to do the work backed out as he had too much on his plate.  I am happy with the one I ended up with.  Maybe a little higher in cost but definitely a professional. He too was busy and asked if he could do it intermittent with his other jobs.  I told him that was fine. Being in a remote rural area unlike in a major city  the availability of finding skilled workers is hard to come by and some times you just have to wait if you can find someone.   So far all the taping and first coat applied.   It is nice to sit back and watch someone else do the work for a change.  ;D  That is until the job is done and I am handed the bill.  Well nothing is free any more.   >:(

Can't wait until I can start on the flooring and move forward.  Been long enough. 
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on August 20, 2016, 03:46:30 AM
No I haven't quit.  Been slowly working on the apartment as time permits along with others things that seem to have taken precedence.  Update is the drywall is finished, primed and painted.  Have a little touch up to do.   I ran into a little problem with the angled joints.  I used a metal backed drywall tape on those joints to keep a straight line.  The drywall installer said that he doesn't normally use this type and said it may develop bubbles.  Well he was right.  Several places it appeared that the drywall compound did not adhere.  He brought some plastic reinforced tape and used it on several portions.  No problem with it.  Anyway I used a air stapler to draw it back down and seem to be holding.   I believe that when it was primed and painted the liquid might have saturated the tape and caused some of this.  So now I have been patching the divots with compound, sanding, priming and touch up painting.  Hopefully it will be finished.

Next step it to get all the receptacles and switches installed.  Then onto the flooring. 
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: dablack on August 23, 2016, 03:36:25 AM
We need pictures. 

Crazy about the bubbles.  I've never seen that.  Then again, I hate drywall so much, I mostly do shiplap. 
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on September 22, 2016, 09:53:38 AM
We need pictures. 

Crazy about the bubbles.  I've never seen that.  Then again, I hate drywall so much, I mostly do shiplap.

Better late than never.  Although hard to capture the bubbles this is one attempt.  In this photo there are two.  Over a 14' wall there are about 6 such places in the seam.   

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/740DAF74-71E3-4C60-BBAC-FFAD35F0BAED_zpszpdg50vx.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/740DAF74-71E3-4C60-BBAC-FFAD35F0BAED_zpszpdg50vx.jpg.html)

This is what I used for that seam.  As you can see one side has two metal strips which actually is embedded into the joint compound.  The opposite side is just paper like regular joint paper tape. My drywall finisher cautioned against this at the onset.   I thought that I could repair them by shooting pneumatic staples and drawing down the metal but it just pops back up on either side of the staple.  So I am not satisfied and have already contacted the guy that finished the drywall and he is going to come and pull out the tape and use another joint tape with a hard plastic backing.  In fact he used it on three joints to finish out and there have been no problems.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/850526B3-EBE9-4405-8231-3BF2CD69E0E4_zpsvb1ak67b.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/850526B3-EBE9-4405-8231-3BF2CD69E0E4_zpsvb1ak67b.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/9156C84D-72D9-4768-A0E1-DE402D419765_zpseahfyias.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/hightop/Garage%20Apartment/9156C84D-72D9-4768-A0E1-DE402D419765_zpseahfyias.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: pocono_couple on September 28, 2016, 10:53:01 AM
hi john,
  hope you guys have had a wonderful summer..  i found this post about the  metal reinforced tape rather interesting..  i tried the same thing on the angled portion between the walls and the ceiling on the second floor of our house in the poconos..  same result as yours..  it was rather disappointing..    one of the jobs on my to-do list when we return to PA next month will be to  rip that all out and replace it...    jt
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on September 28, 2016, 11:07:15 AM
hi john,
  hope you guys have had a wonderful summer..  i found this post about the  metal reinforced tape rather interesting..  i tried the same thing on the angled portion between the walls and the ceiling on the second floor of our house in the poconos..  same result as yours..  it was rather disappointing..    one of the jobs on my to-do list when we return to PA next month will be to  rip that all out and replace it...    jt

JT they do make a wider tape ( 4") and it has a plastic or fiberglass hinge.  My drywall finisher used some and no problems.  Cost is about 3 times.  The tape area is more than 1" which is probably the key.  I imagine it did not have enough tape to mud ratio if there is such a thing. 
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: dablack on September 29, 2016, 03:29:54 AM
Makes sense to me.  Glad you got it fixed.  I HATE DRYWALL!

Austin
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm (Back to the Grind)
Post by: Redoverfarm on December 03, 2016, 04:47:01 AM
(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/scenes/country%20plans/HRDF%20%20Ad_zpsngt0khum.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/scenes/country%20plans/HRDF%20%20Ad_zpsngt0khum.jpg.html)


Well as you have probably noticed that I haven't posted here in some time.  The reason is that I have went back to work.  The first of October I was asked to supervise a clean up crew in the county.  It is part of a $3.5 mil grant to aid in the flood/disaster that occurred in some 17 counties through out the state.  Pocahontas was one of those designated.  A lot of preliminary work had to be done before the actual work started.  Finding a suitable office, interviewing and hiring of crew members.  I has been no easy task given the population base here of less than 9,000.  As it stands the crew is comprised of 10 members.  Thus far I have only been able to find 8 suitable workers.  Hopefully in the next couple of weeks I can fulfill the crew in force.  Never the less we have already been working short handed.  Normally I would not consider going back to work but this opportunity is one that affects how the county looks and it helps my neighbors restoring their landscape without any expenses on their part. I guess you could call it West Virginia Pride.    The grant is good until July 31, 2017.  The workers are those who have been unemployed for at least 27 weeks.  In additional it will teach them new skills that that might not have already possessed.  Stream work is basicly the venue clearing obstructions with chain saws, trimmers, ropes, rakes and other hand tools.  Pretty labor intensive given the navigation through the stream beds.  The debri that is burnable is piled up along the streams and will later be burned once the fire season is lifted in January.   I believe I had posted pictures earlier of some of the devastation that occurred.

On an unrelated note Dogtrot has been winterized.  I still have to clean the gutters of leaves but other than that it is ready to weather the winter.  Come on springtime.   
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: MountainDon on December 03, 2016, 05:36:11 AM
Yes, John, your absence here was noted and I am happy to hear it was caused by you doing good for others who have suffered disaster, nit because you were ill or something. .  Be safe.

Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: azgreg on December 03, 2016, 10:22:52 AM
What a great program.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on February 09, 2017, 12:49:07 PM
Still not back on track with the apartment but I am making good headway with the job.  Finally have a good solid crew after firing and hiring workers.  A full compliment of ten people.  The weekly hours have also increased to 40 hours from the previous 35 hours for the crew.  Here is a sample of what we have done. You don't realize just how bad the streams are until you start looking around.  No shortage of work.

This is a State Park where we cleared 3.5 miles of streams.  It took 13 days and ended up with 37 burn piles.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/scenes/country%20plans/0F5F69B3-A787-4A3C-AA09-B56A6F920884_zpswkakmtca.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/scenes/country%20plans/0F5F69B3-A787-4A3C-AA09-B56A6F920884_zpswkakmtca.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/scenes/country%20plans/0BF5F764-7E6B-4F10-8A9F-4F336D27485C_zpsthi4g2io.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/scenes/country%20plans/0BF5F764-7E6B-4F10-8A9F-4F336D27485C_zpsthi4g2io.jpg.html)

Another stream.  This photograph is the before & after of a jam that was down stream of an abandoned nursery.  It had about 400 feet of 2" irrigation pipe and plastic greenhouse plastic tangled in the logs and rubbish. The stream is about 2-1/2 miles and we ended up with approximately 66 burn piles which we will return and burn later.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/scenes/country%20plans/1A61E2EC-8177-4BC1-BC54-D65AC616A753_zpsvc5uzkbu.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/scenes/country%20plans/1A61E2EC-8177-4BC1-BC54-D65AC616A753_zpsvc5uzkbu.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/scenes/country%20plans/7C417AF7-D65F-4CD3-BEB0-D7D45A641378_zpshfrswkpr.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/scenes/country%20plans/7C417AF7-D65F-4CD3-BEB0-D7D45A641378_zpshfrswkpr.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/scenes/country%20plans/E089C8C8-8356-4619-8E78-DABEDF3E1831_zpsm8pjqez6.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/scenes/country%20plans/E089C8C8-8356-4619-8E78-DABEDF3E1831_zpsm8pjqez6.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/scenes/country%20plans/C49CA82C-79AB-47E0-BD8E-C0F35D024920_zpsftvlcmbi.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/scenes/country%20plans/C49CA82C-79AB-47E0-BD8E-C0F35D024920_zpsftvlcmbi.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Shadow on February 09, 2017, 04:24:55 PM
I appreciate the work and the pictures. Handsome area.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: MountainDon on February 09, 2017, 05:08:21 PM
work,John.  The next time it rains hard there should be many thankful folks.

Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on February 10, 2017, 10:38:07 AM
Not sure what will happen Don but it will definitely be a plus in that there will not be any log dams to inhibit the water from flowing better.  To say nothing about the reoccurring trash that navigates with the water.  Almost all of the streams need addressed by heavy equipment but that is almost a bad word with officials that govern them.  The pictures I posted are just a very small fraction of what we have encountered.

They are a dedicated bunch.

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/scenes/country%20plans/48F09099-9B8C-484F-964A-1DD2D2FD0D0C_zpsdn7mu5ki.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/scenes/country%20plans/48F09099-9B8C-484F-964A-1DD2D2FD0D0C_zpsdn7mu5ki.jpg.html)

(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/scenes/country%20plans/BC7397CA-719D-492A-BAE6-8AF1F68ED777_zpsa2qpkqb8.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/redoverfarm/media/scenes/country%20plans/BC7397CA-719D-492A-BAE6-8AF1F68ED777_zpsa2qpkqb8.jpg.html)

 
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: NathanS on February 10, 2017, 11:19:21 AM
Wow some of that water looks like it's really moving. That is some dedication.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on July 02, 2017, 06:48:51 AM
To other members and guest I would like to take this opportunity to apologize for the missing images from Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm.  This apparently was a result of the host Photobucket now requiring a monetary compensation to post 3rd party images.  If anyone is interested in an image please E-mail me or send a Private message and I will do my best to send you a direct link to that particular image.  Sorry, Redoverfarm
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 14, 2020, 07:32:47 AM
(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/Mobile%20Uploads/AF0ABC09-C93A-4F39-B58C-490B046030AE_zpsgdg2srmv.jpeg)[/URL]

Well it seems ages ago that I had posted on this project and even more unbelievable that it has been almost the same amount of time since I worked on it as well.  Anyway after a long pause I have started back. First order of business was heating the apartment.  When I went to turn on the heat low and behold the Mitsubishi system was working.  Long story to short the circuit board was bad. Using a local company tech we got it replaced and it is now working.  The tech said that this system is real sensitive to power surges and spikes and suggested a surge protector. I with the help of another member “ Chuck in Virginia” I found one that works connected to the outside disconnect.  Got it installed the other day.  It is made by Mars and has a $7,500 equipment replacement guarantee.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: MountainDon on March 14, 2020, 11:34:12 AM
 [cool]
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 18, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
It's a shame.  Went to Lowes today to buy some trim so that I could trim out the windows in the apartment.  I bought a couple 1X4's and when I got home I found the UPC sticker indicating that it was produced in New Zealand.  You would think that the United States in it's abundance of timber could produce a simple 1X4 and do so at price to be competitive with an over seas company.  Guess not.
Title: Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
Post by: Redoverfarm on September 13, 2021, 03:10:58 PM
Well it appears that I have neglected this project from posting. Actually I have been intermittently working on it.  I have used cabinets that have been repainted and installed.  Only lowers as the attic truss prevented any walL or uppers.  I ordered countertops from a local lumberyard/hardware store.  After a 10 week😳 wait I found out that the miter cut joining the bar to the cabinet section was misfit.  Since the bar was 20” and the regular top was 25-1/2” a standard 45 deg wouldn’t work.  They knew it was a different angle cut.  When I dry fitted one piece was the correct but someone cutting the counter cut 45 deg.  Needless to say there was a 3” gap on the outside corner.  They picked it up and another 4 weeks it came correct.  But low and behold they shorted a 30” stand alone cabinet countertop .  Another 2 weeks.  With everything needing done here I might just wait until the weather shuts down outside before working in the apartment.

The bathroom is finished but until I get the countertops mounted I can’t finish the kitchen sink.  I still have to connect the main sewer line to the main house.  Better wait until a day alone without anyone needing the main house plumbing.  The hot water heater is installed and electric attached. 

Still using the temporary stairs.  Need to make another tread and riser for a complete cherry stairs.  The skirt boards will have to be planned, cut and joined.

Hey I’m closer than I was when I started.😎