Cars are killing our America

[wildbil]

After hearing about all this bailout stuff for the auto industry my inner hatred for cars naturally resurfaces. Here is a few of my thoughts.

1. Every city in the country should be working on getting their streets as pedestrian friendly and mass transit friendly as possible.

2. With the average vehicle only carrying 1 person at a time, Big companies should look into personal transportation. I like the velomobile concept, but it needs to be something that can work in the winter and maybe carry a passenger.

3. SUV's need to be outlawed. They are wasting our resources, and when peak oil makes itself known those suckers are going to be taking up space in the dump somewhere.

4. Forget ethanol or hydrogen or hybrid gas/electric...I say lets go Pedal Power/electric assist. This solves two problems, energy independence and the obesity epidemic.


I understand the Cars have allowed me to live in the country most of my life, but there time has come. the day something better is out I'm switching. Let me know if there is something already.

Wildbil

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

What about horsepower?  (or mules...)  Basically solar powered (indirectly) and produce fertilizer as a by-product.  Slow enough to see the things you'd miss from a Hummer.   

[ScottA]

Heavy lobbying by the oil companies over the last hundred years got us where we are today in regard to cars. Back in the early part of the last century the city of Los Angeles was trying to decide what to do for mass transit. Standard oil spent alot of money to convince the city to use busses instead of rail. They decided to build hiways and buy busses and the rest is history. A better system for controling oil use would be a graduated tax system where your first 50 to 100 or so gallons per month is almost tax free then more and more tax based on how much you use. The taxes should go towards researching alternate transport and mass transit.

[Whitlock]

This so true WB most don't even know it.
Before there were cars and trucks our families and communities were closer nit. Anytime there was a town meeting we all showed up. We all went to church on sunday not only to pray but to see our friends they might need help. Some towns even had what were called sunday houses. These were for folks that lived to far to make the travel to church a one day event.
This happens because we relied on each other with in the community for goods and services.
Everybody relied on the people around them. Goods were hard to haul over long distances.
The food didn't need to have a bunch of preservatives in it. We would grow it ourselves or buy it locally.
We were healthier we did more for our selves we walked a lot and worked a lot in the outdoors.
Sure times were harder but I think people were happier.

Just my opinion,W

[MountainDon]

A better system for controlling oil use would be a graduated tax system where your first 50 to 100 or so gallons per month is almost tax free then more and more tax based on how much you use.

I disagree on that as in my view that would involve creation of yet another government department or program, more government meddling in our lives.  Who gets to decide how much gasoline you get to use at a reduced rate of taxation? Is this decided on the number of people in the family or on a per vehicle basis or how far one lives from work? Sorry, I don't see that working, unless you want to get to a rationing situation... government issued coupons or whatever.

[ScottA]

That suggestion was meant as an alternative to outlawing certain kinds of cars and trucks. My personal belief is that global warming climate change whatever you care to call it is a scam anyway. The issue that needs to be addressed is air quality. Cars can be made to run pretty darn clean these days and there is no excuse for not having mass transit systems.

[apaknad]

check out the AIRCAR wb. it is a really cool concept and investors are lining up. 1 or 2 yrs. away.

[MountainDon]

That suggestion was meant as an alternative to outlawing certain kinds of cars and trucks.

Thanks for clearing that up Scott. I agree that we do not need rules banning certain types of vehicles.

[MountainDon]

AIRCAR

I agree that the concept is cool, but until I see credible reports from test driving a production vehicle, from sources other than the car makers own engineers or sales force I remain a skeptic.

I wonder how they would work in a climate colder than India, where the major potential manufacturer is located? When compressed air is allowed to expand it absorbs heat. [The next time you run a lamp, torch or camp stove off a disposal cylinder, feel the tank to see what I mean.] Add to that, the car has no heat producing components; how do you drive one and stay warm in a New England winter? Wear long johns and balaclavas?

[wildbil]

air car looks pretty cool and i'll be keeping my eye on it.

[StinkerBell]

Hold on. I have a big old truck. But I use it as a truck. I haul Hay and building supplies needed for our cabin.  I use the truck as needed and not for driving around the city to get groceries I have a little beater car for that. But before we get on a soap box about banning SUV's and trucks, please consider that some people use them for the original purpose they were designed for.






Stinkerbell gentle steps off her milk box.

[MountainDon]

Stink, I always thought it was a soap box, though I must admit I've never seen a soap box that could be used to stand on and orate. I have milk boxes though. Is your plastic or steel? Or, shudder, wood. An oldie goldie. 

[StinkerBell]

Soap box, Milk Box, I am a fickle woman. I can't  commit.

[MountainDon]

I guess this forum or a blog is the present day equivalent of the Hyde Park soapbox tradition. 

[glenn kangiser]

I think you should work on getting committed, Stink...


A great place to exchange ideas, Don.  In the old days we would all be standing around the pot belly stove in the town grocery store.... or my cave....

[cordwood]

 I have the stove going and coffee on it, Got enough air in your car to get here?



I need one of them pitcher taken things so I can post pics of my stove running people out when I want'em to leave

[glenn kangiser]

My car doesn't use air, cordwood.  Sassy says I may be able to power it with methane though.

Likely you would want me to stay away from the stove.

[muldoon]

After hearing about all this bailout stuff for the auto industry my inner hatred for cars naturally resurfaces. Here is a few of my thoughts.

1. Every city in the country should be working on getting their streets as pedestrian friendly and mass transit friendly as possible.

I agree that more pedestrian friendly streets would generally speaking be a good thing, I even think mass transit makes sense in densely populated areas.  But why should cities be actively replacing current infrastructure to meet these goals?  I think it might make more sense to dictate that all new work have these design considerations for increased bicycle traffic and the like.  New repairs should as well.  But I think it's grossly irresponsible to remove existing streets to change it now. 

2. With the average vehicle only carrying 1 person at a time, Big companies should look into personal transportation. I like the velomobile concept, but it needs to be something that can work in the winter and maybe carry a passenger.

Their are some options to do so, easiest would be to simply increase the tax burden on fuel to drive this into effect.  However, in doing so you begin to see that our entire civilization is built on the concept of cheap oil.  Such a move would spike the costs of food and everything we need, decrease jobs, it would be pretty much a policy disaster for everything.  Mass transit does not work over large geographic areas with sparse population.   Basically your saying cars are broken, we need to ban them and create a new type of car?

3. SUV's need to be outlawed. They are wasting our resources, and when peak oil makes itself known those suckers are going to be taking up space in the dump somewhere.

If they are such a bad idea they will naturally fall out of consumer preference all by themselves.  No need for more laws here.  You must be willing to accept the idea that peak oil may not occur within your lifetime and that people will continue to be wasteful.  If they make bad choices they will naturally feel consequences for their choices.  Over time if your premise is valid it will happen on its own. 

4. Forget ethanol or hydrogen or hybrid gas/electric...I say lets go Pedal Power/electric assist. This solves two problems, energy independence and the obesity epidemic.

No single solution will replace petroleum.   That is why there is exploration in all areas.  ethanol is not inherently a bad idea, it this this idiotic lobbying by the corn farmers that led to our current track of using food for energy even though it was a wasted roi.  Switch grass or even algae looks more promising.  If your willing to go the extra step that ethanol is simply alcohol with a new name, then any sugar can be fermented via yeasts and distilled into usable fuel.  I wouldnt write off any of the technologies based on where we are today. 

I understand the Cars have allowed me to live in the country most of my life, but there time has come. the day something better is out I'm switching. Let me know if there is something already.

Wildbil

Well, thats good.  I am glad cars have enabled you to lead a good life up till now.  I'm glad your in a position where you are ready to give them up now (just as soon as you can have all the functionality without any self imposed guilt).  The rest of the world is not as ready as you are to give them up.  I personally don't think any country should be legislating it at all other than perhaps air quality or basic safety baseline standards. 

[glenn kangiser]

I agree, muldoon.  I can't get along with people well enough to have them in my face all day.  City people are city people and do well with mass transit and are scared to death in the boonies.  This is as it should be....  

Let them ride the bus and only the more adventurous ones brave the wild wild west.  Just leave the city ways and whining about the neighbors in the city.

Save utopia for after I'm gone ... and peak oil is no longer a proven fact - new discoveries and theories show it to be another money making scheme. 


Earth first.   We'll drill the rest of the planets later.

[wildbil]

I realize that my rant was a little recklessly thought out. I was really needing to vent mainly because my car costs me more grief than I want to put up with. I will switch away from oil as soon as I get a chance. My rant really should have been against oil, gasoline cars, the greed of these big companies. Next time I will properly aim my rage.

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

I am all for alternative methods of transportation, but I also love my Dodge truck that can haul/tow anything and yet seats all of our family and even a guest or two.  When I can find something that is as good, strong, fast, and roomy and that is close to the same price, I'll certainly consider it.  As it is, one really good draft horse would cost about what my truck did, let alone if I needed a whole team to have the same towing capacity....   I did see a family out plowing earlier this year with a tractor-made implement being pulled behind a mule.  But that was when gas prices were way up.

[glenn kangiser]

No problem, wildbil.  I just rant back to give you a bad time and because I'm crazy.  Rant on....

I don't want you guys leading a sedentary life.   Just trying to stimulate a bit more thought.