32x14 Off-grid in Idaho

Started by midrover170, November 02, 2014, 01:43:22 PM

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midrover170

#25
Hi there,

Quote from: dmanley on June 15, 2015, 07:19:23 AM
The only question I have is why the up side down joist hangers? They are carrying no load, which is their purpose.

My joists cantilever past the beam here. The joist hangers are installed upside down, not to help with carrying load from the joists but to strengthen the rim joist/joist connection. Makes it much harder for the rim joist to fail with no support from below. I'm planning a 24' ledger for a deck along this face as well, so the added strength is welcomed. I have to give a shout out to Don_P on the forum for bringing this detail to my attention.

midrover170

Made some stairs over the weekend. Needed to get in place before framers start on the 9th. My first time building stairs, so I spent a lot of time studying beforehand. Went with cut stringers, three of them, under 2x6 redwood. Footing was a big slab of Arizona sandstone. I might put a kick plate on the back eventually, but want to see how they are shoveling snow this winter. I'll be adding rails in the coming weeks. A much more descriptive write up on the blog (link in signature).

Hope you all are doing well.

Calculations...


Before adding preservative... hauled that trash out this weekend too  :D


Final product


Couldn't resist...


CabinNick

Lookin good.  It was a HOT weekend to be working!  I was building a south facing deck all weekend in 104 temps - not fun. 

midrover170

Quote from: CabinNick on June 30, 2015, 12:22:33 AM
Lookin good.  It was a HOT weekend to be working!  I was building a south facing deck all weekend in 104 temps - not fun.

SO hot. A lot of my framing this weekend was south facing as well. No sign of relief in the forecast...  :-\

pmichelsen

How are your stringers attached to the joist?


Adam Roby

Quote from: pmichelsen on June 30, 2015, 10:02:32 AM
How are your stringers attached to the joist?

That was the same thing I was trying to figure out.  I checked out your blog but don't see any further explanation (maybe I just missed it).

kenhill

Looks like the top rise is very tall and is lag bolted behind the header.....

midrover170

#32
This was before all the ties were in. Added angle brackets with Simpson SDS structural screws after this... Blocking and stringers have 16d nails as well. Probably overkill.



There's something else in this picture that will probably raise questions... ;) For some reason, not sure why, the outer joist/header was about a 1/2 inch shy from being level with the other deck joists. Tolerances, or just being off while anchoring the skewed joist hangers, I'm not sure (btw, those skewed hangers are a bugger to nail). So, instead of prying out the hangers, I ripped 1/2" strips of PT and attached to the top to make things level. Pre-drilled all the nail holes to avoid splitting. One of those "let's make this work" solutions.

Adam, I hope your recovery is going well.

-D

Adam Roby

That is an interesting way to support the stringers.  Would not have thought to do it like that.

Recover is going pretty well, thanks for asking.  2 weeks after the fact, I am finally allowed to be a passenger in a car... except everyone is working so nobody around to drive me anywhere.  :)  Another 2 weeks and I should be OK to drive myself around.  Starting to go a bit stir crazy... 


Don_P

#34
 [cool] That's a slick solution, nice job.
Most folks on the east coast have not seen incised wood, it shows very clearly in these pictures. When you use a span calculator it often asks whether the wood is incised and there is a strength adjustment. Most of the time where you use incised wood it is also a wet service location, another strength adjustment. Where I'm going with that thought, those 2 adjustments lowered the allowable bending strength by 30%, don't use the regular floor joist tables when sizing joists for a deck or porch.

Just one other observation, the sapwood of all species is non decay resistant, only the heartwood contains those extractives. If you're using redwood for the floor pick through his stacks hard.

I did alot of drawing while recovering, I guess building blocks with what's available  ;D

midrover170

#35
Thanks, Don.

Interesting what you say about incised wood. Why is it so unused out East? I've recently been spinning my wheels trying to track down smooth pressure treated lumber - much better for painting and staining. However, most yards here have to special order it and it's $$$.

I did account for its weaknesses on my spans (the 30% reductions). I'm still well within reason on my front porch and back deck. I do worry that the incise marks will collect water (heard they're good at this) and lead to faster rot... We shall see. Stuff isn't cheap so I hope it lasts a good while. You'll be happy to hear that I ordered 6x6 posts for my deck porch, and an extra beefy 5 1/8" x 13 1/2" glulam to hold it all up.  :D

Don_P

#36
Incising is used to help the treatment chemicals penetrate into woods that don't accept treatment well.  That unfortunately is most western woods. It is not as good a treatment but you all tend to be drier than the east. Douglas Fir is what you'll get mostly, which is the western high strength framing wood. On the east coast the group of southern pines is what is most commonly treated. Its' cell structure is made up of long hollow tubes that accept treatment readily, so it doesn't require incising. Because of the ectractives in heartwood that I mentioned last post, the cells within the heartwood are blocked and do not accept treatment.* When I'm buying treated lumber I'm looking for exactly the opposite of what I told you when you're looking at a naturally decay resistant species, I want predominantly sapwood because the treating chemicals can penetrate the sapwood and not the heartwood. Foundation grade treated lumber is all saps for this reason.

You can run strips of vycor or similar flashing tape on the top of the joists to help keep water out of that upper edge.

*A tree has a vertical vascular system in the sapwood that carries nutrients and food up and down the stem from roots to leaves. It also has a horizontal vascular system that radiates like the spokes on a wheel from heart to bark, these are the rays that are readily visible in woods like oak. That beautiful flecking in white oak arts and crafts furniture is quartersawn (radially sawn)along the plane of the rays. The saw exposes the wide faces of those horizontal ray cells. A tree is a living, breathing, thing. It's gotta go somewhere. The spent sugars and chemicals created in the process of converting water and carbon dioxide into simple sugars, then to starch, then to cellulose and the host of other chemicals required to make a tree, all the byproducts have to go somewhere. The tree uses the medullary rays to move that "stuff" in to the dying cells in the heart of the tree... or that last use of those cells is what kills the heartwood, there is, or was, debate on where the chicken and the egg occur there. In some trees those extractives also contain compounds that inhibit decay fungi or repel insects. In a few trees the extractive content is so high that the wood cannot shrink very much, the cells are packed so full that they cannot freely shrink, black locust, teak.

It is funny, SYP grows just south of me, at the foot of the Blue Ridge and down through FL and TX, yet it is easiest for me to get Canadian framing lumber and for awhile eurotrash made inroads here. Yet I pay a premium for Dougfir and you pay a premium for SYP, I get the feeling that somewhere in there a fat man is dancing and we're paying the fiddler.

Off the cuff that sounds like plenty of carry beam. If you haven't done so it might be good to check the load at each end of that beam plus the tributary area of floor at that post against the footing size.

troy

Growing up in the PNW, I was taught that incised lumber was treated and somehow came to the conclusion that all treated lumber was incised, though I didn't think of it as being incised, it's just the way it was.  When I moved to VA 20 years ago, I was shocked and horrified at how many decks, sheds, and other structures weren't built with "treated" lumber... it took a while to realize that not all treated lumber was incised.  I still have an involuntary "cringe" when I see treated lumber without that visual queue.


midrover170

#38
One of the more stressful days of my project is behind me: the framing material has been delivered to the site.

I rented a 22' stake bed (Freightliner FL70) and was able to squeeze everything on one load:

25 - 2'x4"x8'
60 - 2'x6"x8'
60 - 2"x6"x10'
45 - 2"x6"x12'
30 - 2"x6"x16'
35 - 2"x8"x10'
10- 2x10x10'
15- 2x10x14'
38 - 2"x12"x20'
2 - Glulam support beams
12 - 4x4x12 redwood posts
2 - 6x6x10 Doug Fir posts   
85 - 7/16" OSB

The rig was a 6-speed manual, which was a bit of a shock. I've driven stick for years, but not something that weighs close to 14 tons. My site is up a long, narrow and steep mountain road, so it was going to be a challenge. All worked out well though, and with a couple guys helping, all was unloaded in two hours. Here are some pictures of the adventure.

The full load






20' rafters


The 18' Glulam, buddy wishing he signed up for something else.


Empty truck


midrover170

Lots of (somewhat slow) progress. Framing crew was really derailed by all the rake wall work and the 20ft. rafters. Took about five days more than they expected. One more day and it will all be done. I've been helping as much as I can, while still working 40 hour weeks...

Other good news is that USFS visited today to clear out some beetle kill on the edge of the property. Took down five massive trees and totally changed our view (for the better). Exhausted. More to come.













Father-in-law enjoying the view:




midrover170

#40
I haven't updated in a long while! I just got out of the clinic getting stitches in my finger (bike brake rotor sliced me good  d*). There's a splint on my finger, so instead of typing everything, I'll mostly copy the update from the blog:

---

Roof
Prior to the install, I worked with Treasure Valley Steel to get the material. They had the Cor-ten metal we wanted, but needed to sort though a few options. Originally, we were going to use 1″ standing seam metal panels, but didn't realize that style can't have overlaps. In other words, we'd have to get one long (approx. 40 feet) piece of metal to cover the roof. Since it would be impossible to haul something so long up our roads, we changed over to a 3/8″s corrugated metal roof. These overlap nicely, and allowed us to purchase three 14 foot sections to cover the roof. I also ordered Cor-ten edge trim that would cover about half of the cedar fascia board that I installed.

The roofing crew came up on a Saturday and started right in with removing the asphalt paper that was installed prior. Roofer recommended (due to our low slope) that we apply an ice and water shield over the entire roof. This would give us great leak protection – much better than the asphalt paper. It was an added expense I was happy to accept. Paper came off very fast and the ice and water shield went on just as fast.



It was impressive seeing how fast the roof went on. With the first course installed and lined up, the remaining two courses went on easily. Crew used a hole punch to make screwing easier (used a 1 1/2″ screw to really bite into the plywood decking below). Right now the roof still has a raw metal look. It won't start rusting until we get rain. With the year we've had so far, that might be awhile. So many fires in the Northwest, and the area is currently just clogged with smoke.









Windows
The following week, our windows were installed. We decided on Integrity by Marvin windows, which have a fiberglass exterior and wood interior (untreated pine). Most of the windows are side gliders, but there are three awning style windows and one casement by the front door.

The install went well, mostly. One window for the loft had a broken sill and wasn't able to be installed. I have some questions about the flashing that was done at the top. Normally, you'd cut back the house wrap (which I did) and then lap that over the tap layer of window tape. The install crew didn't do this and it's a bit worrisome as a future leak issue. When they come back with the loft window, they may redo that portion.

Otherwise, we're really happy with the look. The layout/placement also seems to work well for creating a nice breeze inside. Once the walls are sheetrocked and trimmed the windows will really pop. The star of the show is the 8 foot sliding french door. We placed this in the living room area and it's perfect for letting in a ton of light and providing a great view.







Misc
Other projects include the exterior doors and decking. Front door was a fiberglass door from Builder's Choice and back was a steel door from Steve and Sons (both Craftsman style, budget-minded options from the Depot). Painted the front door a bright yellow with a brass handle set. Really like how that turned out. Back door still needs stairs, and some paint.



I FINALLY got all of the main deck installed. That was such a long process, but it looks great. Haven't stained the last boards, and will put a little cedar trim around the bottom of the main support posts.









Saturday evening, we were winding down and about to go for a walk when we heard someone calling to us. It was a neighbor coming to let us know that a fire had started over the distant ridge in the Robie Creek area. It was small and there were several fire crews, but we were told we should be ready to evacuate just in case. This was our first experience going through these emotions, and it was/is pretty unnerving. I started scrambling around trying to get any debris away from burn areas. Got the chainsaw out and cut down two somewhat large trees that were close to the build. They needed to go anyway, but this was good reason to finally do it. We decided to pack up early and head down, especially since we have no phone/internet yet and can't get updates. On the way out, the local VFD said that the fire was pretty much contained and not a threat. Apparently it's still burning, but hoping it'll be addressed soon. Wishing we had that concrete siding on...

I'll try to update more often  :D Installing some plumbing and wiring this weekend.

CabinNick

Your cabin is looking great.  I share you emotions of having to worry about a forest fire for the first time.  We finally bought our dream property in April this year and it has been threatened for the last two weeks by a forest fire.  The fire is small compared to many of them burning around us but it over 10,000 acres now and only 5 miles away.  Some of the other large fires in our area have traveled over 10 miles in a day so it is definitely a helpless feeling.  Let's hope for rain soon to put this horrible fire season to bed!

midrover170

More progress. My life has been taken over by insulation, which has taken WAY longer than I ever expected. So excited for it to be done and for sheetrock to begin on the 28th-ish.



Chimney support box


R-30 in the ceiling. .4 mil vapor barrier is next.


Loft and bedroom


Set the shower, nothing fancy.


This reminds that it's all worth it...

midrover170

Oh, and I finally framed in the deck roof. This is just before the rafters were strapped, so a couple are a little off.


Don_P

I'm going to pick a little for the edification of others to follow. The entire birdsmouth seat cut should bear on the carry beam, or top plate of a wall for a conventional rafter. In other words the level seat cut should not extend inboard of the bearing edge the way these do, it can cause the rafter to split under a heavy snow load. Or another way to say it, the birdsmouth should not be wider than whatever it is sitting on. Current code also limits the depth of the notch to 1/4 of rafter depth.


midrover170

Hey Don,

You can pin that one on my dad...  >:(

He was out helping for a few days, made a pattern for cutting the rafters and by the time I got around to checking the work that's the way they were. Thinking of a plate to strengthen that spot? Thoughts?  It was great having some help, but now I have a little extra work. Thanks for pointing that out for others.

Don_P

If you are going to do a level ceiling then knit the rafter and ceiling joist together well in that area. That would avoid the problem of how to deal with the ceiling in that zone. If the ceiling is sloped I'd be tempted to try something like a double layer of 2x4's ledgerlocked to the main beam and wrapped as a decorative heavy trim.

midrover170

Quote from: Don_P on September 22, 2015, 06:11:11 AM
If you are going to do a level ceiling then knit the rafter and ceiling joist together well in that area. That would avoid the problem of how to deal with the ceiling in that zone. If the ceiling is sloped I'd be tempted to try something like a double layer of 2x4's ledgerlocked to the main beam and wrapped as a decorative heavy trim.

If I understand you Don, you're saying to beef up the outer edge of the beam so that the rafters can't flex downward under load? I can do that and even have some leftover ledgerlocks. What about splicing OSB on either side of the rafter at that point, running about 24" long with 1.5" Simpson screws throughout? Just throwing that out there because I have A LOT of OSB scraps needing a purpose other than the landfill.

Thanks,
D

Don_P

You understand, as the rafter flexes that unsupported short grain wants to run a split up the rafter. Anything you do to move the support towards the building and supporting the rafter where it is deeper is going to help. That is the best slope of notch to have if you are going to have an overnotch.

For the connections in the sideplates to do much good they need to be in the same area that wants to split, for that reason I wouldn't. If you do I would lean more towards a slew of staples rather than a few larger diameter fasteners, lower the tension perpendicular to grain from the fastener prying a hole open.

midrover170

Cheers, Don. Thanks for the help.

I'm just excited to work outside again after four weekends of insulation work.