Don & Karen's Cargo Trailer to Camper Conversion

Started by MountainDon, January 21, 2014, 08:35:16 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Adam Roby

Geesh... we really get it in the rear in Canada then... a tent lot costs around $55 for one night.  Prices are insanely high...  I would be afraid to ask how much a trailer lot would cost.

MountainDon

We paid* a low of $17 at a National Forest site (water available, vault toilet, no electric or sewer) and a high of $20 at other NF campsites, same amenities.  The site at Glacier Basin campground in RMNP was $20 a night and had flush toilets instead of the vault type.

* But I have a Federal Senior Pass. That means most campsites have a 50% discount. Except one was only $3 off. It depends on the concessionaire / agency contract. Plus the entrance fee to RMNP was free.   The Sr Pass is available at the entrance to any NP and all FS district offices upon proof of US residency and payment of $10. Lifetime (after age 62). A super deal, also good at BLM, Fish & Wildlife, B of Reclamation, TVA and some B of Engineers.  Anyone in the vehicle I am in gets in free at a fee-per-vehicle area (non commercial, no buss loads), or myself plus 3 others at a fee-per-person area.


While there we checked costs at a Colorado State Park; $22 camping plus the $7 daily park entrance fee (that  included electric) . But we opted for the nearby FS site at $9 (50% off $18) and ran the Honda 2000i for a little over an hour or so to recharge the batteries and run the electric tea kettle, toaster and blender.  Yep; roughing it!   ;)



Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


MountainDon

I have conflicting opinions on the concessionaire / reservation system. IMO, far too many campsites are available in the reservation system. Some campgrounds have every site available for reservation by phone or online, others have maybe 3 to 4% available on a first come, first serve free for all. That makes it difficult to just wander about as the spirit moves you. OTOH, reservations made it possible for us to arrive late in the day at RMNP and not have to worry about finding a site. There are even photos of the individual sites available online. I suppose my happy ideal would be to have reservations at popular destinations like N. Parks, but have more non-reserved sites at FS campgrounds.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

hpinson

We tend to wander in our camping trips, and finding campsites in the reserved campsites in Colorado has been an unexpected problem.  That has pushed us to do more dispersed forest camping, nice where allowed -- which is fewer and fewer places in central Colorado.

In Utah, not to long ago, we saw an altercation between the concessionaire host and a camper/ family who were 'squatting' on a reserved spot.  The ranger-police were called, and it was ugly, as tempers seemed to be running high on the issue of the reserved spots.  It was very unexpected.  Another time recently, we had a reserved spot at a backcountry NPS campsite, arrived, and found our spot taken with no other spots available.  Our daughter was quite ill with a fever and vomiting.  We had to force the issue with the two young men who had taken the spot. They did not want to move, but finally did. I really did not appreciate having to take that on.

A benefit of the concessionaire-run campsites seems to be that are kept very clean.

Overall, the nicest Federal campsites I find tend to be BLM, and also the least expensive. 

An odd camping experience I had a few weeks ago was at Navajo National Monument. The campground, very nice, had no charge.  I'm not sure if that was some condition the Navajo had placed on the Monument.  It was interesting that that whole park seems to get very little funding - clean but facilities are really aging badly.

MountainDon

We like dispersed camping over most campgrounds. However dispersed camping is getting more difficult with all the changes caused by the FS Travel Management Plans and the accompanying MVUM (Motor vehicle Use Maps). The MVUM for the Jemez had been delayed by recent wildfire and flooding and litigation, but many of the spots we have used in the past are not permitted on the draft copies I have seen.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


rick91351

Don - Glad things went well all and all on the shake down cruse.   [cool]  There indeed is getting to be some sticker shock at the price of campgrounds some places.  So looking forward to next year after trim out on the house is finished and spending a little time way.     
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

MountainDon

A few assorted shots. I'm not the greatest photographer.

One of the one nighter FS campsites...



Glacier Basin campground, RMNP. Loop C and D have been devastated by pine bark beetles. When we reserved there were no vacancies in loops A & B (with trees). My BIL's trailer in the background.





from around 12,000 feet...





It was wildly windy up there but the Marmot was sunbathing.   :)
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

MountainDon

We hiked over some snow...







seen along the trails...











Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

MountainDon

If I didn't already say so, I must say I am very happy with the Truckfridge. The small freezer was big enough to hold 4 burritos, two meals worth of green beans, a small bag of kale, 2 salmon fillets, a half pound of ground buffalo and a half pound of ground turkey. The fridge held temperature pretty well, with a little air circulation help from a small fan. The fan does really help even out the temperature throughout the box, tempers the rise/fall swings. I did not have the watt meter hooked up to record power use but going by the resting state battery voltage it was miserly in its power use. And it is quiet enough to be hardly noticeable. Not loud enough to be any bother at all. That is with the stock fan too which is more noisy than the one I had picked out as a possible replacement in case the stock fan bothered us.

Some solar will be in the works sometime soon I hope, but there are other priorities at present.


Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


Native_NM

Nice job and great work as always. 

This is one of the best purchases I have ever made:

http://store.arbusa.com/Fridges-C11.aspx

They are expensive as sin, and worth every penny.  You can run one off one 140W panel, and they are real fridge/freezers.  They pull less than an amp, are easier to clean than the Engel, and have a drain.  I like the digital readout.

On the campgrounds: the reservation system has more cons than pros in my opinion.  I remember touring CA in the early 90's and always found a site.  My cousins tell me you need to reserve a year in advance now at many sites.  One of them works for the FS in the central valley and he said the motivation was money.  They reserve them online, and more than half the time people don't show.  When stragglers show up after the cutoff, they sell them again. 
New Mexico.  Better than regular Mexico.

John Raabe

Very nice photos Don. It looks like a great trip in spectacular country.
None of us are as smart as all of us.

rick91351

Quote from: John Raabe on July 03, 2014, 08:23:22 AM
Very nice photos Don. It looks like a great trip in spectacular country.

I agree with John nice photos - BTW great photo of what I think is a Duskey Grouse!  The waterfall and creek are pretty much post card - travel brochure stuff.  The elk bulls grazing really makes me smile.  Hard to take a bad photo of an elk.  Those old bachelor bulls like that this time of the year just enjoying each other and the grazing.  Then wait till fall and they shed the velvet, nights starting getting colder and look out.   
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

MountainDon

Dusky Grouse. Thanks Rick, I wasn't sure and had not got around to looking for a name. That is it what what I see after using Google. A male.  It was sitting on a rock about 12 feet off the hiking trail.   The elk were very close too. The moose was about 100 feet away and down in the creek. None of them cared anyone was around. All in RMNP.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

hpinson

Yes, you are just a terrible photographer  ;)

Very nice, especially the pictures of the Elk in their velvet and the Grouse. Lots of snow still! I recognized those places in RMNP. It seems there are always moose about there.

A good percentage of forest in Colorado and north is devastated by Pine Bark Beetle.  It is quite astounding to see] -- it goes about from the New Mexico / Colorado border, all the way up into the Canadian Rockies and Alaska.  A drive to Alaska, from New Mexico really puts the scale of the problem into perspective.


MountainDon

Quote from: hpinson on July 03, 2014, 10:29:47 AM

A good percentage of forest in Colorado and north is devastated by Pine Bark Beetle.  It is quite astounding to see

Astounding is correct. Very sad to see entire slopes that are 100% killed and so many others that seem to be heading that way with what appears to be 80% or so at present. The recent and current drought conditions stress the trees and make them unable to resist the beetles. The beetles are after all a native to the area insect.

On a similar note, have you seen the north end of Lake Powell near Hite, UT lately?
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

hpinson


hpinson

That was right across from Hite in April 2013. The river was freeflowing where the lake used to be. No marina! You can see the bathtub ring high-water mark about 100 feet up on the cliff face.  I don't know conditions this year though. Probably not a lot better - though maybe so, given the snowpack I see in your photos.

Adam Roby

Outstanding pictures, what an amazing camp site... ok ok, I forgive the TV.   :)

MountainDon

Quote from: hpinson on July 03, 2014, 05:17:35 PM
....given the snowpack I see in your photos.

Parts of CO had lots of snow this past winter. Passes we have gone over in prior years at the end of June were still closed. 
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

rick91351

Your Duskey Grouse - Ellen's one bird book says the northern verity do not get the gray band on their tail. 
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.


UK4X4

Love the moose pic, the NPS just 2 years ago re-introduced them to grand mesa above me, the neighbors have seem them in our neighborhood, but we haven't yet,

the county installed a bunch of "I'm a moose don't shoot me" signs on the main roads up for the hunters to think twice  before they pop that odd looking elk

MountainDon

An update.  One of the things the trailer did not have when we first built it was a space heater. I now have a test bed. JUst some parts cobbled together to test the principle. The principle being to use the hot water from the propane fueled RV water heater. It is a Suburban brand 6 gallon tank. It is the model with a pilot light, not the direct ignition style. Today I did some rough plumbing. I tapped into the hot line near the water heater outlet. I also tapped into the cold line very close to the water heater cold inlet.


This is a very basic hookup for the first performance test.... The general layout...



I'm running the tests off my 12 VDC power supply with a watt meter. The two white PEX pipes in the upper right come from connections near the water heater hot and cold connections. Blue tape = cold(er) pipe.

A closer up view of the heater and pump...



The hot pipe connects to the inlet side of the pump. The pump is rated at a flow rate of approximately 3 gal/minute.  The finned radiator is a transmission cooler, approximately 6 x 12 inches. It has never bee used for oil or anything other than water. (It is the unit I tried in the heater experiment in the cabin a few years ago) The fans are secured with wire ties; quick and easy for testing. They are oriented to blow air through the fins. At present the pump and fans are wired up to run continuously. At present I do not have a temperature controller or thermostat. That will come if this first stage is deemed a success.

Close up shot of the watt meter reading. This was taken moments after turning the power on. Taking a photo of the display is a tad difficult and needed some manipulation...



With pump and fans running the amp draw is at 0.67 with the watts at 8.7 (at 13.3 volts).

The plan is to run all night and see how many watt-hours are used and what the temperature inside the trailer is in the morning.  The water heater thermostat is set at medium.  The test started late this afternoon (4:30 PM MST) with the exterior temperature at 58 F and dropping. The trailer interior was at 70 F. The overnight low is forecast to be 37 F.

The fans....
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004SBYQE8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


The pump....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Top-DC-12V-12L-M-3M-15W-Panel-Circulation-Solar-Powered-Hot-Water-Pump-/391022362224?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b0abfbe70

The hoses are faucet connection hoses with 1/2" pipe thread fittings.


The fans are rated at 19.1 dB per fan. The pump is rated at <45 dB.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

hpinson

Looks like the transmission cooler I had to add to my old 2nd Gen 4Runner so it could go up a mountain without overheat the tranny. A very bad design by Toyota.  I think it came from Autozone on Southern.

So I have to ask ... isn't that space heater kind of high maintenance - you have to drain it after each use in the winter or it will freeze?  I guess that applies to the water storage too though.

MountainDon

I think I bought this cooler at the same store a few years back.


Yes, the whole water system needs to be drained for winter. But, most of the time we don't use it a lot during the freezing season. If the temperature drops below freezing for short periods per day it has proven to not be a worry. It's the prolonged freezes that are the problem. Draining isn't as bad as it might be as I did build in some low point drains.

It was 72 F inside all last night. 41 outside.  Not bad especially considering the 48x27 single pane window; also known as a heat hole  ;D
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

MountainDon

I turned the water heater thermostat back to the Low setting 2 nights ago. Overnight the outside dropped to 36 and the interior was 64; 28 degrees difference.  The pump and fans ran continuously all night.

From that I see that...
... This is probably a viable heater. It won't be able to produce the rapid temperature rise available from a Wabasco, a Propex, a Standard RV furnace or a 120 VAC electric space heater. But it also does not take up as much space as the other fuel burning heaters, and is cheaper. It operates quietly. (I would like a Propex but balk at the $700 price tag) And it does not require a 120 VAC power source.
... A temperature control /thermostat is definitely needed as the 72 F was too warm to sleep comfortably.
... Changing the water temperature has an effect on the maximum temperature rise.
... My window probably does lose a fair amount of heat. (48 x 29 single pane)

... I need to try another fan set. These are 45 CFM; I have one that moves 90 CFM, with a little more noise, but still quieter than the pump. I ordered a second unit so I will change them out and run a test with them mounted in a pair in place of the first set. It is scheduled to arrive next Thursday as are the temperature controller and my new IR thermometer. A higher rate of air flow through the radiator should put more heat into the trailer interior.



Yesterday I weighed the propane cylinder and will see what weight of propane is consumed in 24 hours. My problem with this is my scale. My very accurate (to the gram) scale has a upper limit of 12 pounds, more than the weight of the cylinder (18 lbs tare plus propane). The bigger scale will get to to about a half pound accuracy, maybe. Anyhow I'll let this run 24 hours and weigh that just for the heck of it. Water heater set on low still.

Depending on that result tomorrow I might try running a 1 lb cylinder to be able to more accurately measure use. That is if I can find my 1 lb adapter fitting.

Then I expectantly wait for Thursday.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.