Al and Robins 20x30 1 1/2 near Lake Eufaula, OK

[MountainDon]

I believe he means plans like the ones on this link at NDSU  I have many of these plans in an old out of print book from MSU plus a whole book on old site built trusses.

[ajbremer]

Thank you MountainDon, that site has some pretty good plans. I downloaded those truss plans because I'm think about building my own trusses. As long as they are 20 psf of snow load and 80 mph wind resistance.

[ajbremer]

Hey Don_P, thanks for the information on the 'Roof Carry Beam'...the banding at the top of my posts. First, I was going to buy 5x5 post but I see by your measurements that you've referenced 6x6's. I guess it would be better for me to go with 6x6's?...is that the norm? A challenge that I will have will be to make sure the base of each hole is totally level. I will be using treated wood laid flat at the bottom of each hole for the posts to sit on. I have a bunch of old oil from cars and I figure I'll paint the bottom of each post with the old oil. Once all of my post hole bottoms are level, I'll be able to notch those spots in the top of each post for acceptance of the 2x10's you mentioned BEFORE I stand them up and put them into the hole. It would be great if I had a picture of what your describing. You mentioned, "I'd use an old detail from the land grant college plans". If you find that 'old detail' send it to me please. The carriage bolt method through the top of the posts and through the 2x10's would make it real easy because I wouldn't have to have my hole bottoms level...but I guess it's not the best way to band the top of those posts. What if carriage bolts were used and there was also a scabbed piece of wood nailed to the post that sits perpendicular too and under the 2x10's on each side?

[Redoverfarm]

Al unless you have a transit or builders level it is going to be very difficult to get each hole the same depth and level in the bottom.  Not sure what length of 6X6 you are buying but with a little planning you can get fairly close.  As long as they are not too high to hit your roof or purlins.  I normally set my post and then cut the tops to the right height.

You can tack the 2X10 on one end and raise the other with a 4' level resting on the top edge to get the top level.  Probably have to re-set it again on the furthest mark you made to go the entire distance to the other end. 

Very seldom do the post work out exactly given the height needed and the available length of the post.  Just make sure that the bottoms are set the same depth for a proper footing and go from there.

[Don_P]

See if this helps. You are using those 2-1/2" verticals to tie the beams together as well, I'd get 3 or 4 nails into the vertical from each side of the beam, then from the vertical into the truss. Predrill if it's tough wood that wants to split.

[ajbremer]

Great information and great picture Don_P...thank you for being so helpful. That looks like a very strong support method.

[Adam Roby]

Ooohh... transparency, never saw that feature before.  All my plans leave out a wall or two so I can see inside, me need to learn that trick!

[Don_P]

view>toolbars>styles. You'll get a styles toolbar on the top, mouse over till you see "x-ray" and click that tab. I use it a fair amount to clean up hidden lines or in a situation like this, handy 

[ajbremer]

I like those 2 1/2" verticals that help to support the trusses and add stability to the banding beams at the top and I also like the idea of the way the posts are notched to accept 2x10's at the front and the back. I guess the best way to do all that would be to notch the posts while their on the ground which would mean that I'll have to be sure that the bottom of the holes are on the same plane so that when I raise up all of the posts, all the bottom notch cuts are perfectly level. I don't own a laser level but I have a neighbor who does so I hope to use his. What other tools or methods could I use to level the bottom of my holes to a plane?

[pmichelsen]

What other tools or methods could I use to level the bottom of my holes to a plane?

I would get a transit, decent ones can be found for fairly cheap and they'll make short work of it.

[Adam Roby]

I'd maybe try a string with bubble to find a common level then measure down.  Might also work with a tube and colored water, just use the level mark as a reference point and measure down into the hole.



Might not be the most accurate, but I'd guess it would be fairly close.  (Or is this a case of "only counts for horseshoes and hand grenades")?

[MountainDon]

Seems to me that attempting to level the bottom of the hole, or the top of the poured concrete footing in the hole is going to be very difficult. I have no idea what a professional pole barn builder does, but my inclination is to set the poles and then use a transit or a water / tube level to mark a datum point on each post and then trim the tops.

At least that is how I did the posts on our small barn / big shed. I concentrated on setting the four corners as square and as plumb as I could. Everything followed from there

[Don_P]

You can do either, If you have a level footing in the ground you can measure from it and notch on the ground. Every pole barn I've done or seen built they set the poles then cut them. You'll be happy to have scaffold there to set trusses.

[ajbremer]

The electric company hooked up my construction pole/meter that will feed my garage it's electricity during the building process today. My construction pole stands about 12 feet out of the ground and was put in by the soil tapping method spoken of in past posts here in this thread. As I talked with the electricians that were putting in my meter I mentioned people putting concrete in pole barn post holes and that it's better to just use soil, they agreed totally and reminded me that all telephone poles are 5 to 6 feet in the ground and they tap the soil around them...no concrete. I guess that's pretty good proof of the soil method over concrete for sure!

I googled utility poles and found some interesting facts, here's some quotes:

"The standard utility pole in the United States is about 40 ft (12 m) long and is buried about 6 ft (2 m) in the ground.[3] However, poles can reach heights of 120 ft (37 m) or more to satisfy clearance requirements. They are typically spaced about 125 ft (38 m) apart in urban areas, or about 300 ft (91 m) in rural areas, but distances vary widely based on terrain. Most utility poles are made of wood, pressure-treated with some type of preservative for protection against rot, fungi and insects. Southern yellow pine is the most widely used species in the United States; however, many species of long straight trees are used to make utility poles, including Douglas-fir, Jack pine, lodgepole pine, western red cedar, and Pacific silver fir.

Traditionally, the preservative used was creosote, but due to environmental concerns, alternatives such as pentachlorophenol, copper naphthenate and borates are becoming widespread in the United States. For over 100 years, the American Wood Protection Association (AWPA) has developed the standards for preserving wood utility poles. Despite the preservatives, wood poles decay and have a life of approximately 25 to 50 years depending on climate and soil conditions, therefore requiring regular inspection and remedial preservative treatments. Woodpecker damage to wood poles is the most significant cause of pole deterioration in the U.S."

I find all that pretty interesting. Does that mean pole barns will last 25 to 50 years before the buried wood rots?

[UK4X4]

"Does that mean pole barns will last 25 to 50 years before the buried wood rots?"

I'd say it was an average measurement on when they usually change out the poles pro actively as they need to withstand X force............in order to do their job.

For the electricity supply company they probably just have X years use for x type of pole and just routinely inspect and change, rather than wait for them to fail in use.

I know in the UK we have a busy ex- electricity post business with them being resold for other uses as they are far from unusable when recovered

The poles dont have eaves and walls protecting them from rain, and so will be wetter than a pole barn post in normal usage.

wide eaves, good ground drainage away from the barn and dry soil would exponentially prevent rotting due to water.

[ajbremer]

Thanks UK4X4, that's stuff I didn't think about.

[ajbremer]

Well, the rains have pretty well flooded the soil around here in mid-oklahoma. Lake Eufaula is more than 13' above normal and has flooded some businesses, homes, docks, trailers and storage buildings. My dirt pad, where the pole garage will be, is too soft for machines to come and shot, level, and lay stone. I'll just continue to plan, mess with my sketch-up model, buy some supplies, and wait for dryness.

[ajbremer]

Well, it's May 25th, 2015 and it's still wet like crazy - I can't do any work on the pad for the planned garage for some time. I'll need about a week of no rain for the dirt to dry up enough for the stone to be laid on the pad. The news said this month of May broke a record for becoming the wettest month in Oklahoma history with 12.29" of rainfall (8.61 above normal)...and the month isn't even over!

This leads me to a question I've been wondering about these last few 'wet' days: How deep can water penetrate into dirt? Flash flooding is caused by run off because the soil can't hold water anymore, meaning that the water doesn't sink into the ground because it can't go any deeper. Take a wooden electric pole that is sunk 5 feet into the dirt, at it's 5 foot depth - is the soil always dry down there?

My house is held up by 15 steel piers that are 3 feet concreted into the ground. Another crazy question but if water stood continually around all of those piers could it ever turn into mud and start to sink? With all of this rain it's got me to thinking...that's all.

[rick91351]

Guess I really do not understand your question - Water is pulled down into the ground by gravity - Hopefully this recharges lagging aquifers, (water tables) and springs hopefully bounce back.  Just a fact of life and an act of nature. 

No your five foot hole is not always dry hopefully unless you live in a charming place like Death Valley places there go with out measurable precipitation for years.  When it does occur it is scant and non measurable.  That said you hole five foot deep will not become a mud sink hole either.  Unless there is a hydrological even ie a spring 'springs forth' there.  There was a home up here where we live and that was exactly what occurred.

Here the reason for flash flooding is not just caused as you stated - but too much rain to sink in to the ground in the amount of time it has on surface.  It has to go some where.  Or fill up a five gallon bucket with several inches of water.  Dump it out it will not immediately be absorbed in to the ground but splashes and runs high spots to the low spots.  Now replicate this in your mind. Several inches dumped all at once over a large section of Oklahoma - Kansas - Texas. All moving high spot to low areas.  Soon the volume becomes a destructive rage.

Chances are your piers are fine however it is also another reason I am such a strong advocate for footing and stem walls.  However I do like piers because it would and does give a chance of the water dry out....       

[ajbremer]

I'm still waiting for it to dry up around here, in fact it's raining hard right now AGAIN! A lot of flooding going on around here in Oklahoma and NOT a lot of construction going on.

[rick91351]

I'm still waiting for it to dry up around here, in fact it's raining hard right now AGAIN! A lot of flooding going on around here in Oklahoma and NOT a lot of construction going on.

I hate the thoughts of the mosquitoes - and no see'ms and other critters that hang around until it dries out.....

[ajbremer]

5 loads of gravel brought in today for the garage pad. Here's a little video of when the first 2 loads came:

https://youtu.be/m_8LY0sCvWE

Here's the pad after 5 loads of stone:

https://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m489/ajbremer/20150608_143233_resized_zpsnwzysvxc.jpg

https://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m489/ajbremer/20150608_143250_resized_zpsgx355wcm.jpg

[mpulse]

Im new here just read through the whole thread.  I am building my place over around Porum.  Was wondering about who you bought your siding from, want to go that route with my place

[ajbremer]

Hi mpulse, I sent you a personal message. Thanks again for checking out this thread.

[ajbremer]

Friday - June 19th, 2015

Well, the flooding and the rain finally stopped here in mid-Oklahoma so now I can begin building my garage. Today I plan to put in my batter boards and I'll probably nail the string to them this weekend. I can rent a post-hole digger from a nearby town for $75 a weekend as long as I have it back by 8am the following Monday.

One thing I'm realizing is that my pad is all crushed stone, just a few inches above ground on one side and about 1 1/2 feet high on the other. I thought I was going to be able to have a 32 x 28 but it'll have to be 24 x 28 due to the pad tapering off on its sides. I'll have to have my post go into the ground around 2 1/2 to 3 feet and I'll also have to pass through the stone so that's 4 1/2 feet deep on that high side.

My plan is to put in my 6x6 treated posts 8 feet apart at garage door and entry door locations and every where else. Then I'll band the top, band the bottom (with 2x6's), and I'll probably even put up my trusses and maybe even the metal roof before I get the concrete poured. They say it's around $110 a yard around here now and I'll need about 9 yards.

Here's more of my pad pics and vids:

https://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m489/ajbremer/20150608_143250_resized_zpsgx355wcm.jpg

https://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m489/ajbremer/20150608_143233_resized_zpsnwzysvxc.jpg

https://youtu.be/8m4ZXaY9nHA