Little House plans update

Started by John Raabe, June 26, 2009, 11:27:13 AM

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John Raabe

Due to some new information on nailing patterns I have updated the Little House Plans. If you have an existing set please download this PDF, print out the chart and tape it down to sheet five of your Little House Plans. It will update the connections between the roof rafters and loft joists (for a loft) or rafter ties (for a cathedral type ceiling). This update will be especially important for high wind and high snow load areas.

Right click and save this PDF file to your computer: http://www.countryplans.com/Downloads/LH-update6-09.pdf
None of us are as smart as all of us.

daverave

John,

You recommend gravel (5/8" screen) as an alternative to cement as a post footing. The building inspector I am dealing with does not quite buy this. Would you be willing to write him a short, signed note explaining this? This is the only way he will approve the plans. If not, I'll just put in a cement base.

Thank you,

Dave
Little House builder in Wisconsin


devildog

daverave, in the booklet that comes w/your plans , on thefoundation page  Post and Pier Foundations . it says somewhere towards the bottom that any/ all these foundations can be used on his(johns) plans. I dont remember the exact wording ,but if you show him that,Id think he'd except that.
with building officials though ,who knows. Ihope this helps.

its in the last paragraph of the "read me first" book
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem.
Ronald Reagan, President of the United States; 1985

John Raabe

To work as a footing you must have crushed rock in solid soil so that the weight is transferred down and out at a 45ยบ angle through the packed gravel. Then it works the same as concrete. River gravel will not work this way as the pebbles will roll around. That is probably what the inspector is worried about.

Crushed rock footings are what most railroads are built on (most cathedrals too!).

If you are in soft or sandy soil then concrete is better. At any rate a reasonable discussion with the inspector is in order, but I would generally go with his experience and determination.
None of us are as smart as all of us.

devildog

john, could you please explain or show me what crushed rock is. to be honest, ive been trying to find a definition for it , I thought it was like 919 screenings that you put under pavers. when dampened and packed it becomes very solid. thanks , darrell
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem.
Ronald Reagan, President of the United States; 1985


John Raabe

#5


Here are more pictures - http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=9qR&sa=1&q=crushed+rock+&btnG=Search+images&aq=f&oq=

What you should do is find out what is available where you are. Call up a local supplier of sand and gravel and see what crushed rock they have that is designed for structural fill and is tight packing. (It doesn't need to be as big as the above image but it needs to be sharp and tight packing.) You will probably get the best advice if you go to the gravel supplier (not the home center) and look at their materials and talk to the owner or foreman and tell them what you are going to use it for.

You likely have a crusher plant within 50 miles that busts up local rock and then runs it through screens to meet different size needs. Since this is heavy material to transport the actual products are made locally from different types of rock with different characteristics that varies from place to place.

I hope that helps.
None of us are as smart as all of us.

Don_P

#6
Since this is an alternative foundation there is no specific reference, however a treated wood foundation over a gravel base is prescriptive, I'm just noting that as a technicality. There is some precedence in the codebook for a gravel footing. Superior Walls precast foundations also use a gravel base and do have code approval. I was kicking ideas around with an engineer last week who was talking about gravel under ICF forms as another possible affordable foundation.

Anyway from the permanent wood foundation section, R403.2;
...Gravel shall be washed and well graded. The maximum stone size shall not exceed 3/4". Gravel shall be free from organic, clayey or silty soils.
Sand shall be coarse, not smaller than 1/16" grains and shall be free from organic, clayey or silty soils.
Crushed stone shall have a maximum size of 1/2"

Devildog, this is a neat place. The edge of the Blue Ridge and the Valley and Ridge topographies. If you order from Cardinal Stone near the parkway it will be crushed stone composed of gneiss, metamorphosed granite, that came from precambrian times, is some of the oldest rock in the appalachians. It is the hubs of hell, the basement rock, upheaval mountains of irregular plutons of magma that have no real pattern. Mount Airy granite is one of the largest granite quarries in the world and supplies the salt and pepper granite you see in public buildings everywhere. The band runs the escarpment and includes Buffalo Mt, Mt Rogers, Grandfather Mt, Roan Mt, etc. Pilot Mt below the ridge is the remaining core of an eroded volcano.

Order from Wythe Stone or any of the quarries to the northwest and it is limestone and sands from 600 million years or so later. Limestones, dolomite, lead, salt, iron etc. Still darned old but it contained organisms in the sea on that side of the mountain that could form limestone. That topography has regularly undulating long lined up ridges and valleys. Holston, Clinch, Big Walker, East River Mts. The depth of the sea created different deposits as well, in oxygenated shallow water the soils left behind are now known as Rich Valley and Burke's Garden. Just over that ridge deep acidic low oxygen waters left behind Poor Valley,("The last train from Poor Valley taking brown eyed Becky, Richmond bound")  Cross through the tunnel into WV and you step through a few hundred million more years, enter the Allegheney plateau. A raised level plain of what flowed off of the mountains and buried forests and fern beds which were in place by then, forming coal. The mountains there are the erosion of that plain, Flat Top and the mountains northwest. That erosion slope ends in Ohio.

BTW Wisconsin architect Frank Lloyd Wright was an early gravel foundation proponent. The red granite from around Merrill, WI is some of the prettiest stuff I've ever seen.

Well, that wandered, washed pea gravel is what I've used from Cardinal  :)

John Raabe

Wow! [shocked]

Leave it to Don_P to not only give you the code application reference but to have a history of the rock and the specific supplier you are likely to be dealing with.

I'm always amazed at the help that is available here from our membership. [cool]
None of us are as smart as all of us.

devildog

yes thanks to both of you. It is good to know someone from my area is on this site w/ that much knwledge.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem.
Ronald Reagan, President of the United States; 1985


OlJarhead

To clarify:

For sleeping loft 2x10 on the wide one (14') on 24" centers?

I'd planned for 2x8's and set my band joist at 7'6" which I think was the bottom of the 2x10 so should be OK with either :)  But wanted to be 100% certain I am correct in thinking that I MUST use 2x10's for a sleeping loft and that I should put those on 24" centers.

I was planning 2x8's on 16" centers because I read that they will span 13'11" with a 30lbs live load and 10lbs dead load -- which I thought was acceptable for a sleeping loft??

Also the span inside the band joist is 13 feet even.

John Raabe

For a loft floor in a 14' wide building a 2x8 Hem-Fir #2 can span 13'-2" (this is inside the supports).  This is the lowest grade lumber you should consider. DougFir and S. Pine #2 goes 14'-2". These are all at 16" centers.

For 24" centers you can go to #2 2x10s. Any species #2 or Btr. Make sure your subfloor material can span 24".

This from the "U.S. Span Book for Major Lumber Species", 2002. Other charts might vary slightly but not as much as the variations in visual grading. You are safe and solid with any of these choices. 
None of us are as smart as all of us.

OlJarhead

Quote from: John Raabe on October 28, 2009, 11:21:38 AM
For a loft floor in a 14' wide building a 2x8 Hem-Fir #2 can span 13'-2" (this is inside the supports).  This is the lowest grade lumber you should consider. DougFir and S. Pine #2 goes 14'-2". These are all at 16" centers.

For 24" centers you can go to #2 2x10s. Any species #2 or Btr. Make sure your subfloor material can span 24".

This from the "U.S. Span Book for Major Lumber Species", 2002. Other charts might vary slightly but not as much as the variations in visual grading. You are safe and solid with any of these choices. 

If I'm reading this correctly then DF#2 2x8's on 16 centers spanning 13' 2" will be fine for a sleeping loft in the little cabin then?  Right?

I plan to primarily use this for storage and kids sleeping loft though maybe some fat guy (me) might find it cozy too if I put stairs in.

I plan to put 3/4" T&G OSB down for the floor also.

One other question:  should there be blocks between the loft joists in the middle of the span to prevent twists?

Thanks!

John Raabe

Yes, your 2x8's will be fine. You would have to haul a piano up there to get over 30 psf!

Blocking can be a good idea and could help with twisting material but won't change the spans.
None of us are as smart as all of us.

OlJarhead

Quote from: John Raabe on October 28, 2009, 02:24:26 PM
Yes, your 2x8's will be fine. You would have to haul a piano up there to get over 30 psf!

Blocking can be a good idea and could help with twisting material but won't change the spans.

You are the man :)  Thanks John!

By the way, I make a point of letting folks know about your site and plans!  They really are a huge help.

When I added 580 sq feet to my house I did everything myself.  It was fun but also somewhat challenging!  Having your plans makes it REALLY EASY to make my changes, modify the plans and construct the little cabin without a whole heck of a lot of trouble!

I specially appreciate the BOM!

Thanks