Young couple trying to avoid the rent/mortgage game - advice?

[h0rizon]

Hi all,

    So i'm new to the forum.  I've browsed around here a bit, and I see alot of great, no-nonsense advice.  So I hope this is the right place to ask for advice for a newbie.

    So a little background.  I'm 25 and live with my GF in the Northeast.  We've been saving for years to buy a home and have tucked away about $25k savings, and $20k in my 401k.  Until recently I personally had no debts, but my car crapped out and I needed a new one.  Since I didn't have any credit history I couldn't get a standard loan, so I open a secured credit loan and a secured credit card to build credit. That tied up $12k of the $25k.  We'll be downsizing to smaller apartment so I can pay this off by next year.  She's currently a student and doesn't have a job yet, but is almost done with her degree and should have something by fall to start helping out with savings (some will go to student loans).  Oh, and In 2-3 years, we're looking to start having kids.

    The past 2 years we've been house browsing.  I've kept an eye on listings, but have found it difficult to find anything we can afford on my income.  So if we did buy a home, we'd both have to have jobs to afford it.  I'm not keen on this idea at all as it puts pressure on both of us to keep our jobs just for a roof over our head.  And with children in the future, I feel that we won't spend enough time with them as a result. But I hate renting as it seems like a waste of money in the long run.

    What really broke my nerve on the mortgage thing though was looking at the amortization schedule on a 30-year.  After seeing the amount of equity that is actually built after even 10 years (compared to interest paid), and the amount of time and energy we'd put into our careers to get that equity, seems, well - impractical.  I'd much rather spend my youth building a family, occasionally traveling, and enjoying life rather than worrying about a home.  So I'd say that a mortgage is evil, but less so than renting.

     So I'm playing around with ideas on how to avoid this rent/mortgage trap.  One Idea I've had is purchasing a piece of property, around 5 acres, which would run about $30k - $40k.  Obviously I would have to take out a loan, but the payments would be very small and I'd have plenty of money left over (an extra $700-$1000 a month) by not renting.  I'd then work on building our home, pay-as-you-go, so we can debt free much sooner in our lives.

    Where I'm stuck is with the interum housing solution.  A blank piece of land is great, but it doesn't protect us from northern winters.  I've considered Cordwood masonry, as it looks like I might be able to build a small home (500sf?) with my savings. Once built I could either expand upon it or build a larger home (1000 - 1500sf) to meet our needs (mainly children). 

     I understand that cordwood needs about a year to dry: therefore, we would probably need to purchase the land this year if we wanted to start building next year. That may not be possible with my credit history until next year.  I also understand that it could take years to build this way.  I'm concerned that, time wise, this will take too long and would force us to rent for a few more years anyway, and we'd lose the rent-free benefit which may in turn slow down the build....

     We also need to consider septic, water/well and electricity construction costs, along with necessary permits.  I'm concerned that this will get expensive real quick, and we'll have blown our hard-earned savings with nothing to show for it.

     So, I'm looking for ideas, pitfalls, suggestions, and personal experience; be it with cordwood, capped basement, mobile home, garage-dwelling, etc.  I'd like to take the time to gather and weight the options before we decide to sign a 30 year slavery contract.  But we need to decide this year what we're going to do.  Surely there must be a way for a young couple to achieve something like this?

[dug]

Debt/ mortgage free is an admiral goal. I commend your decision to remain as such.

Rent is not always such a bad deal as it seems- financially. You do not have expenses such as upkeep, maintenance, property tax, etc. My mother has rented most of her life and done quite well putting the extra cash she would have spent on a home into investments.

Buying property and building a home does have draw backs and is not necessarily less expensive than buying an existing home, though it can allow you to pay as you go. In fact, I would say building usually costs more. There are many expenses you may not think about, and the ones you do will no doubt cost more than you expected. Septic, well, electricity, road improvements, etc,etc,etc. It is somewhat of a labor of love.

That said, I am living in a camp trailer, two kids/ wife, and building a home, paying as I go, debt free of course. I love it.

If you do decide to build your own:

- consider a mobile home rather than a camp trailer as temporary residence. Used ones are dirt cheap and camp trailers suck in the winter.

Your relationship better be tight. Building can put a real strain on it.

You will need a lot of time to build, more than you think. Consider that.

[LeoinSA]

I agree with Dug about rent not being all that bad at times - see my post http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=8786.msg113626#msg113626

My one piece of advice is pay cash and avoid any sort of revolving credit debt.  Cars - houses - ya gotta do what ya gotta do.  But if I don't have the cash for a small-ish purchase I either don't need it or I wait until I do have the cash.

Also look at Craig's list, eBay, and other local places - used to be called nickle ads in a weekly paper format, don't know if those still exist - for used stuff.  Judicious use of these resources often get you something close to new at 1/2 the price.

Cash is king and speaks with a loud voice.

[h0rizon]

I have actually never used a credit card or taken out a loan before.  I always paid cash.  I took out the secured loans simply for credit-building purposes, so I could get a mortgage later on.  I hated doing it - even though the loans are technically paid, it still feels like a heavy weight.

Now, not to say that renting is a horrible idea.  And not that it doesn't have it's advantages, but it's just not for us.  I'd much rather have my own home.

I have definitely considered the mobile home route.  I checked craigslist a few times, and there were some homes available for $10k or less, in possibly decent shape.  But I understand that it could cost $$$ to move it ($10k I read somewhere) and anchor it to satisfy building code.  And it may require additional investment to fix what was broken.  After that, I still need to consider septic/water/electric needs, as this would be a more semi-permanent (5 years or more, I'd estimate).  I'd hate to waste too much money on a temporary solution.  I definitely see its advantages however, and would like to hear from people who have done this to understand what's involved and what it would cost, roughly.

I also considered a used fifth wheel.  Easier to move and setup.  But I can't imagine winters in it.  How do you keep the pipes from freezing, dug?  How did you setup water/sewer? And congrats on doing this - it is inspirational to see someone managing it.  I wish you good luck!

[JRR]

Don't overlook housing and properties that are available from HUD and other government agencies.  I am looking at my third.  Usually HUD ends up with the properties because the original owners faultied on the mortgage payment schedule ... but it's often not because of some heart breaking situation ... sometimes its because the borrowers just grow old and pass.  Usually, it seems to me, HUD is just trying to get its money outstanding on the unpaid mortgage .... with little regard to market value or trying to make a buck on the deal.  A HUD house might make you a good intermediate house.

[dug]

How do you keep the pipes from freezing, dug?  How did you setup water/sewer?

I am in So. NM, so it's not so bad as some places. We are @ 6000 ft. though so there are plenty of nights in the lower teens. I usually have to fix a couple of water blow outs each year, but none this winter so I must be improving things.

I have skirted and insulated the trailers and insulated the pipes as good as I could manage.

Fortunately, there was already a well, septic, and power when we bought the property, along with the 2 vintage (a kind description) trailers. I would give these features a considerable amount of weight when searching properties.

[eddiescabin]

I'd reconsider the entire plan...why at 25 with a low paying job, a gf (not wife) with no job and student loans would you even THINK about kids?  DITCH that whole idea, wait till the GF works a few years, get some experience...you will find in 3 years you either marry her and start your plan, but more realistically, she will move on (after all she has only been a student thus far) or you can be another broke guy sending checks to an ex for a kid you wish you never had. You are young, get out there and enjoy it, don't shoot yourself in the foot. Stay single, make money, do not have kids unless you've been married 5 years...then you will have a fat wallet, more and hotter women and cars/boats/multiple homes all your buddies that had kids at 26 will never ever experience.

[LeoinSA]

Really?  Over the edge with cynicism aren't you Eddie?  Perhaps our young friend and his lady are more mature than some of us that spew unenlightened opinions on this here forum.

I'd reconsider the entire plan...why at 25 with a low paying job, a gf (not wife) with no job and student loans would you even THINK about kids?  DITCH that whole idea, wait till the GF works a few years, get some experience...you will find in 3 years you either marry her and start your plan, but more realistically, she will move on (after all she has only been a student thus far) or you can be another broke guy sending checks to an ex for a kid you wish you never had. You are young, get out there and enjoy it, don't shoot yourself in the foot. Stay single, make money, do not have kids unless you've been married 5 years...then you will have a fat wallet, more and hotter women and cars/boats/multiple homes all your buddies that had kids at 26 will never ever experience.

[325ABN]

Eddie is keeping it real!!  

[h0rizon]

LOL eddie.  Unique Idea :-)

Honestly, though.  I intend on marrying her soon.  And having kids between 27 and 30 in sensible - less chance of birthing defects/complications, we won't be old farts when their older (we can actually keep up with them), etc.  Unfortunately, of all the people I know in my age group, almost 50% already have kids, and a bunch more are trying.  25 is too early.  But 28, 29.... a bit more reasonable.  And that's what we're aiming for.

And I'm not sure where you get the low-paying job bit.  I alone earn more than the average 2 family household for my state (according to the U.S. census). Even then, though, housing in my area is outside my income.  Not to say that I couldn't actually pay the mortgage, but it would leave me with very little to save.  And that's not OK with us.  Prices are just unreasonable, and I don't know how most people do it.  Sure, we could afford it once she starts working, but we don't want to go that route. 

Dug:  I think if I could find a property with a well/septic, I would be all set.  So far I haven't seen anything, but I just started looking.  One listing did say "septic" in the utilities section, but the description said "septic ready",so I think it only had a perk done. This would definitely save me alot of headaches.  But is this even typical?  I'd say that if a property had these, I would question why it was never developed further.  Did they run into something with the property that affected being able to build a house on it?

You know, I think if I had said I was 41 and married, or young bachelor trying to set up his pad without a care in the world, I may have gotten very different responses.  See, I'm interested in the logistics part of this.  Even if I can't do this this year, or next year... or even within 5 or 10 years - I still want to do it.  But I need to have a reasonable idea of what it will cost, what's involved, what the risks are, etc. That's what I'm hoping to get here. 

[zion-diy]

  You weren't specific enough with location to be real helpful. There are alot of us on the forum that have knowledge of many regions. We, for instance, have lived in Vermont, California, Florida, Arkansas, New York, and have relatives in Conn, New Mexico, England , Tenn, and friends in New Hampshire, Washington, Alaska, and more that I'm sure I've left out.
All that said, Finding property with well/septic already on it is a step in the right direction. That, and a mobile home may not be the perfect solution, but at least it would allow you to brush up on your building skills.
LeoinSA said it right, cash is king.
And Dug was also spot on... your relationship better be tight.

[h0rizon]

We currently live in New York, not far from the Catskills.  Prices here are high because we're close enough to the city that properties are often developed for weekend/vacation homes for people trying to escape the city life for a while.  This does give local business a good boost though.  And the area is really beautiful, we love it here.

And we have a really good relationship.  We've been through hard times already (been together almost 7 years now).  But we'll see.  If we do get through this, then it really is meant to be.

I really do like the idea of property already developed with septic/well.  I'll keep an eye out.  But If I don't find one, what does it average to put in?  I think my parents paid about $15k for their well 10 years ago, when their spring lines broke.  If I recall, they had to dig pretty deep to find water.  But once they did, they got something ridiculous like 40gpm.  Water actually runs out of the top of the well every spring.  Too bad it needs to be chlorinated to be drinkable. 

I think I've heard of septic running $5k - $10k depending on the land.  If you need a raised bed, I think this goes upwards of $30k or more.

And the mobile home - what is actually involved in moving one to your own property?

[NM_Shooter]

Any place that allows mobile homes probably has a bit more relaxed restrictions. 

I'd expand my radius from the city a bit, and try to find land that is even a bit further out.  5 acres is nice, but if shaped correctly 2 acres can be more private than 5 acres that looks like a bowling lane.  Get less land, put the money into a well and septic instead. 

Build small to start.  Take a look at Mtn. Don's cabin.  I think that could be the perfect full time small cabin for a young couple... it is also entirely do-able to get dried in and insulated and livable in a building season. 

Or build even smaller, just to get on the property and out of the rent game.  Then after you're established, build a larger structure or add on.  Having a stand alone livable structure on the property as a mother in law house or guest shed or whatever is really nice to have. 

I have a friend who built a two car garage with a livable loft that he lived in for two years while he built his house. 

I guess in boiling all that down, my advice is to build and live in the smallest structure that you can.  I would scrap the mobile home idea.  They depreciate.  You can build a livable structure for $10k if you shop for bargains.  Good luck!

[rocking23nf]

I would reconsider this plan also, how much money are you making? how much will your wife be making? Mortgages are a way of life for most people, its a monthly bill for 25 years of your life. Do you really want to live in a 500 sq/f house with your soon to be wife? thats really tiny man, what happens when you need your space? you need to make that number around 1500 sq/f. 

Also Kids are very expensive, if money is tight, why even consider this?

Alot of people consider a mortgage a bad thing, thats its a large bill you owe. But honestly, once you build some equity, its great, you can you use the equity to borrow to pay off other loans, finiance a vehicle, buy a rental property, do renos.

Here is my example.

2003 bought my house for 121,000- duplex, 1600 sq/f, built in 1994
2007, house valued at 250,000, 90,000ish oweing, borrowed 25,000 to purchase truck, since my old one was dying, and didnt want to make extra payments each month.
2008, house valued at 300,000. 110,000ish oweing, borrowed 70,000 towards cabin purchase and renos of cabin.


I would have never been able to do this by just saving money. 

[dug]

While I agree with Eddie that waiting to have kids is generally a good idea for many reasons, I am also of the opinion that a woman ideally should bear children not too far beyond 30 years old. The risks of many problems, including Down's syndrome go up astronomically after that. You guys have been together 7 years which is great. Many couples never have the chance to form a true relationship before having kids.

Estimating costs will involve some local research, especially well and septic which can vary wildly. Where I am at you can still get a septic for 3 grand or so but from what I hear that is on the low side. Certain areas require more elaborate systems which are accordingly more elaborately priced.

Call a few well drillers in your area and see what they charge per foot. They should be able to tell you how deep they have hit water in various locales and this will at least give you some idea, though a somewhat vague one. I have heard stories where someone hit water @ 50 foot on their property and their neighbor had to go to 250 ft.!

Quality water and a good supply were one of my main criteria in searching for properties. We paid about $300 to test for chemicals and contaminants before purchasing.

Cost to build- again there are many variables that can influence price. $50 per sq. ft. seems a reasonable goal. I have heard people claim $20 per sq. ft. but that doesn't seem realistic to me. It may be possible but I sometimes wonder if they are adding everything up. As others have stated, craigslist can potentially save you a lot, especially on expensive items such as windows and doors. Remember that the shell is relatively inexpensive so there is less money to be saved there. Doors, windows, kitchen, flooring, etc. can really add up so it pays to focus savings in these areas.

I would consider a small place, say 500 sq. ft. to start that is designed to add on to at a later date.

[h0rizon]

The area we're looking at is a bit further from the city, but is still within commuting distance to work.  It's still country, but a 30 minute drive puts you in into larger towns, where there are good jobs available.  Good school districts too.  But 5+ acres still averages $40k.  I could build in 2 acres, but I'd be concerned that building "unconventional" - cordwood, rammed earth, etc. - might bother neighbors.  But that might be a poor way of looking at it.

We're perfectly happy starting small, as long as we can expand as we need it.  Yes, 500sf, while very small, is a good start.  We would eventually want 1500sf, but we don't need it right now.  The big caveat at the moment is that she's into scrapbooking, and this takes a lot of space. So we'd need a separate storage shed for that stuff.  We talked about later converting the "starter" cabin/home into an office or scrapbooking area as we built out, and her eyes lite up like a Christmas tree.  That's honestly what she cares most about.  I'll definitely check out Don's cabin.  If we can actually build something for $10k, i'd be as happy as a clam.  It's the utilities I'm worried about.  And the cold.

I don't want to get into much detail on what I make.  I will say, however, that I budget $2200/month for expenses.  Half of that is currently rent, but we've seen recent openings in cheaper apartments so we're going to jump on them.  It'll be smaller, but that will give us a good idea of how to manage the smaller space.  After those expenses, I automatically tuck $750/mo into savings, and I try my hardest to put the extra 2 paychecks and full tax refund into savings too.  Sometimes I have to touch savings for emergencies, but I limit that as much as possible. I tuck away 8% of pre-tax into 401k, to get the full match.  The wifey is slated to start out at about 70% of my income, but jobs are very scarce at the moment.  So I'm not banking on that income. 

I know a mortgage can be excellent leverage.  And it can appreciate it value.  But it's only worth what someone is willing to pay.  We'd much rather put our money into other endeavors.  And besides, we both come from a line of farmers - something is just drawing us to the land, and build it yourself approach. 

[dug]

One more thing-

If you do this I would advise to have it done before having kids, or not to start until a few years after. As a father with newborns I can guarantee you will be needed. Having kids in itself is very taxing on most new mothers without adding another burden.

As I stated before, you will need some time. When I was 30, my business was in full swing and I was working 70 hour + weeks with two young children at home I don't know how it would have been possible to do much else. I'm sort of "between careers" now and it's still hard to find the time.

Hopefully you have a much more relaxed job.

[JavaMan]

One other thing to think of when looking for land.  It is more difficult to get a bank loan (at least in this area) on raw land.  However, the other side of that is that if you check out a number of sources (Craigslist included), you can find land for sale with owner financing.

While I didn't find mine through craigslist directly, it was a craigslist ad that took me to the area and then I was introduced to a realtor that had a LOT of land listings - all with owner financing available.  I must have culled through 40 or 50 listings, just in the area I was looking.

[cbc58]

just to throw out two other ideas....  intentional communities (www.ic.org) which share the cost of land and infrastructure.... and caretaking a property for someone else.   

[MushCreek]

Hi H0rizon- Glad to see you made it over here.This group is a lot closer to what you want to do than GW. One thing I would really research is building codes and zoning requirements for the area you plan to buy. Some areas don't even have inspectors, other areas are outrageous, and in some cases, severely limit DIY work. That alone could have a major impact on your cost. There are a lot of other things to look at when you start shopping for land, such as flood zones and local development (Oh? You didn't know you were next door to a land fill?) A friend of mine built a large custom home, until to find out that he is very close to a local dirt race track. Saturday nights on the porch are out of the question during race season. So do your homework.

Only you can decide if this is for you. I can't imagine building a house and working full time, but many have done it. It will take a long time, though. Another friend had 6 years into their log cabin, and they were far from done. I really like the idea of living on the work site, and plan to when I build our place. Just being able to keep an eye on things is a big help, since tools and supplies tend to grow legs, especially during the current economic times. It also places you at the site when you get home from your day job. It's really easy to 'skip a day' if you have to get in the car and drive for an hour. Regardless, it will be your 'life' until the place is done.

I know for a fact that people can live comfortably in small houses. Do a google search for average house sizes in various countries around the world. Americans are really spoiled by big houses. I read somewhere that you should have 500 square feet per person, and I think that's more than enough. You and the GF should get along fine in 500-1000 sq ft for a while. We raised our son in 800 sq ft for the first 6 years, and although it could have been bigger, all in all, we were very happy. Like all good Americans, it didn't stop us from movin' up, though! We currently have 1500 sq ft, but we only use about 1/2 of it on a regular basis. Having a collection of outbuildings can greatly cut down on the need for a bigger house, and they're cheap to 'feed', only needing heat when you actually use them. Who's to say you can't start out with a little 500 footer, then build a few sheds so you or your wife-to-be can pursue hobbies, or just chill when you need to? I actually spend more of my waking hours in my garage than I do in the house. There are even people who have gotten around zoning by building a series of small buildings, each under the size limit for a 'shed' in their area. Good luck, and keep us posted!

[NM_Shooter]

Keep in mind that Don's cabin as built is significantly more.  But it also has a composting toilet, water cistern, solar power, and a metal roof.  Go with composite roofing, buy stuff on craigslist and the habitat for humanity store, and big box clearance.  Your big costs up front will be the well and septic.  If you can put up with an outhouse and a cistern initially, you can get in the house quicker.  You might even consider using a plastic septic tank that you use for a water cistern initially, then convert it over once you want to put in a well and leach field.  You probably can't use a new tank for potable water though, so consider the materials carefully.

I'd re-think the cordwood approach, just because of the hassle factor.  The labor for that will be much more than a stick framed structure that you can get up and sheathed in a weekend.  Plumbing and electrical much easier too.  Build a 10' plate height, put a 12/12 on it with a loft at 8' up, and you pick up a lot of space for storage and scrapbooking. 

15.75 X 24 with a loft is a very livable space. 

[h0rizon]

Dug:  That's why I'm hoping to come up with a "5 year plan" so to speak. I wouldn't want to miss the first years of my child's lives because I'm too busy working and building.  And a construction site is obviously not the right place for a child.  So the sooner we have a plan in mind (understanding that life throws you curveballs), the better prepared we'll be when a kid finally pops out.

Work can be stressful at times.  There are periods of OT, but they are really good about it and let me take time off to comp for it.  I also have about 4 months of PTO saved up (I rarely take time off) so that will come in handy.

Good luck finding another career.  I know how tough it is out there, alot of friends are still looking

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JavaMan:  I'll look into owner financing a bit more.  I hope that I can get a loan - the plan is kinda banking on that 

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cbc58:  I picked up a copy of "The new cottage home (Jim Tolpin)" to get some ideas, and I noticed one or two 'cottage clusters' that were built on land trusts.  It's a cool idea, i'll look into it more as well.

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MushCreek:  Thank you!  I thought GW would be a good place to start, I've been to the garden forums a dozen times for other stuff and everyone seems really nice and intelligent. (I had another account name years ago but forgot what it was  ).  They posted great advice to my question, but it seemed like they focused more on why I couldn't do it and it felt like I was being handled with kid gloves.  But I understand where they are coming from.  And it definately wasn't the right forum to ask this sort of question 

I'll definitely spend alot of time land-shopping.  I think google maps will be my friend.  It will be difficult to back out once the land is purchased, so I'd better get it right the first time 

I've seen some diagrams of average home sizes, and the fact that they've exploded in the past 50 years.  It is ridiculous.  The average is almost 2400 sq? I mean really? Reminds me of one of my favorite commercials - middle-aged guy owns a huge home, SUV, etc... and he's like "How did I do it? i'm in debt up to my eyeballs!  Someone please help me....".  Video is here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn5EP9StlVA. 

Anyway, I like the Idea of multiple outbuildings.  I planned on building a toolshed first just to lock up supplies - but having multiple "hobby" buildings is intriguing.  It may just work.

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So, speaking of codes, I am finding it really hard to find good information on them.  I know it varies by state, county, even local town.  But information is hard to find.  Is there something simple out there to start with?  Like I know there are codes that state exactly how far away from the road you have to build.... and how far apart studs need to be.... and that you need 2 sources of egress... and codes on how electric wiring needs to be run... and the list goes on.  I would hate to miss a code buried in some codebook on page 2,424 section 6 paragraph 3,242 that forces me to have to rip out a beam to move it 2 inches and then stand on one leg while dancing the Macarana just to get the final permit.

And I'm still looking through the forums, but are there any Cordwood enthusiasts here?  I'm seriously thinking this might be the way to go to help keep costs down.  But it seems like alot of them are built without standard water/septic/electric?  I'd like to get in touch with some people that have actually built them.

[h0rizon]

Just saw your post shooter.

I do see the biggest drawback in cordwood is the hassle/time involvement.  But I've read it insulates better and is much cheaper. 

Considering that the cordwood is essential the shell of the house, is there a good way to cost compare?  I've seen people claim $10/ft for cordwood minus the utilities.  And then I read that a standard home costs around $85/ft or higher, but I think this includes everything.  Any better apples to apples comparisons?  If the shell is cheap enough, it might be worth sticking with stick to save time.

I have no problem with an outhouse.  The girlfriend would drive a few miles up the road to avoid one however

And habitat sells direct?  I've done some habitat work before, but I never knew that.

Any Idea what Don's place actually came to, cost wise?  I saw around $28k there somewhere, but haven't read the whole thread yet.  I hope that's not to personal a question.

[dug]

I think on Don's thread he said he paid 22K, which came to $46 sq. ft., not including solar system.

I think the cordwood walls look very cool. I say go for it if that's what you want but do consider the extra time and labor, including electric, plumbing, etc.
As I said the walls are relatively inexpensive compared to the rest, I got all my materials for the framing and sheathing (20 by 30 ft., 1 & 1/2 story) for under $5000.
I was going to do Adobe but am finding conventional framing enough of a handful.

 

[MountainDon]

Yes, about $22,000 for the cabin as it sits, including the heating, fridge, range, But Excluding the in ground water tank and the Solar PV system. Add the water tank and the PV and it comes to something like $32K




Regarding stick built vs cord wood walls, and so on, plus your question about building codes.  Some counties have all the information as to what codes they use. There can be a wide variation across the country. Here in NM where our city home is we go through a division of our city government. In the more rural areas of the same county, where our cabin is located, there are some slight variances in the rules used at the county rural level. Our county rules are virtually the same as our county regs. I could find virtually everything online. I did make one in person visit to the state office and had a few questions I still had answered.

That leads me to the question, "are you going to go by the book", or what? My county will recognize straw bale and pumice crete walls as an alternative to stick building, but they told me they'd want to see engineered drawings on the frame for those as well as on cordwood.  For stick built buildings they want good detailed drawings and would accept owner-builder drawn plans; no architect or engineer stamps required. The building dept people would go over them and stamp okay with any changes they wanted penciled in red.

For a time I had considered cordwood as we had to thin out hundreds of three to six inch 50 foot pines. In the end I decided against the cord wood or other alternative methods as they were too time consuming. That was my/our decision. For others cordwood has seemed to work well. I wanted to get the majority of the work done and the cabin dry in one season.


So first you need to research the regs that will be enforced, what will be allowed and what will not be allowed if you go 100% above board. In an area with the whole enchiladas worth of rules and codes everything will be spelled out to a greater or lesser degree.