Buildings and History - How and Why

Started by glenn kangiser, April 21, 2007, 09:51:09 PM

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glenn-k

Don, the Gold King mine in Jerome, AZ, has a 10,000 cu. in. engine - old Fairbanks as I recall, they fire it up once in a while.  Don Robertson is a great guy and keeps tons of the old machinery and old style building going.  He has a circular sawmill that he cuts lumber to build with there.

He doesn't make it fancy -- just makes it work for it's keep. :)


Leo -- still something to be said for keeping the old places alive - but --yup - the little super insulated one will be much more comfortable. :)

John_C

15,701 cu. in.     10,000 cu. in.     Makes me want to find a .wav  file of the Tim the tool man Taylor grunt.      I'll bet they have some SERIOUS low end torque.


glenn-k

They are big beauties - just sit and run - rather slowly for days - weeks -- or months.  Usually always pretty stationary on the speed.





John_C

What would be a normal operating RPM?    I assume something ridiculously low by todays standards ...   150 rpm or so??     I try to image one of those things operating at modern rpm 1800 rpm and up.  That would be a site to behold,  from afar.


I live in apple country.  At the various fall festivals there are often a few small steam powered apple presses that look just like those in miniature.  I've only ever seen one running once. They usually attract a large crowd and I don't do crowds.  I drive by one every now and then that someone has as "yard art".  I'll try to grab a photo of it in the next week.  I would guess the flywheel on the apple presses I've seen is 24" to 30" in diameter.  They are now often mounted on small trailers so I doubt the all up weight is more than ~600 lbs.

glenn-k

I couldn't remember exactly - seemed to be around 500 RPM on most - Here is a link from one of the good wind generator experimenter sites where the guys says the "Z" is rated at 400 RPM.  http://www.otherpower.com/dynotest.html

Overspeeding these engines can cause the flywheels to explode from centrifugal force with heavy chunks of cast iron flying like grenade shrapnel.  People can die that way. :(

I don't think the big ones ran much faster - I worked on a couple of giant ones in the oil field.  Heres one at 260 rpm  http://www.rustyiron.com/engines/commercial/index.html

Even modern day restorers occasionally pull a no-no and lose an arm or something to one of these old engine flywheels.  They were invented before OSHA, but generally with common sense and care they are pretty safe and lots of fun.  They generally put ropes and posts around the danger areas at shows.

These old ones are shown at 300 RPM - similar to the oil field engines and Gold Kings 3 cyl. engine.



from http://www.practicalmachinist.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=002279;p=0



glenn kangiser

I got back to the Princeton last Monday and got a few pictures.  Here is the boiler that I assume powered the Ingersoll engine.



and here is the wall that I think was inside the large building.



It appears that this wall may have been made of tailings set in a rubble wall form and cemented together with lime cement along with crushed slate. While the mortar seems quite soft, it is still standing over 150 years later and apparently did the job required of it.



Seems more study on how it was made could be worthwhile for various walls and fences around our home or cabin projects.

"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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youngins

Glenn,

My dad has 40 acres near Oakhurst. His is ex-military, retired police.  He started a sportman's club there - had a barn built and spends a lot of time up there.

Anyways, he pans in (IIRC) the Fresno River which cuts through one edge of his property.
"A spoonfull of sugar helps the medicine go down.."

glenn kangiser

That's a nice area also - almost big city now - about 30 miles away from here.  Maybe I'll meet up with him some day.  If you get out to visit be sure to give me a holler or stop in. :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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Amanda_931

Charmaine Taylor of dirtcheapbuilder.com is the queen of lime.  Lots of information on her site.  

Plus there's a lot of interesting stuff from Japan--including things like foundations for bridges that stood in water.


glenn-k

#34
Looks like lime was used in the early days in some areas.  

Plain dry stacked rock was used in the old days also like on these dry stack walls in Buffalo Gulch where I was today -- built by the Chinese about 150 years ago.  The buildings are gone but the basements - lower stories are still there.

There was even a hand dug well in a corner of one of the building foundations.  More are peeking out of the grass begging to be excavated. :)



The abundant free rocks were perfect for building a foundation that would endure for longer than the structure they were supporting.


MountainDon

#35
Not sure how old this cabin is, but it's in nice pretty country, NM, right near by our land. Ours is in the trees, starting about the tree line just left of center, going to the right (east) and north.



It was built in three sections by the looks of it.



Two different log sections



Plus a full length addition at some later time. Some rather unconventional footings in use there (concrete filled... not sure of the PSI)



a genuine antique...



the essential ancillary building...

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

glenn kangiser

Always neat to find an old place in the woods -- I always find myself looking at the methods of construction - storing bits of information for a day when it may be useful.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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glenn kangiser

In the old days , before refrigeration, spring houses were used.  At the bottom of our property is a year round spring which had an ancient miner cabin built there -- since burned down - probably during gold rush days as the square nails and charcoal remains  are buried under about 1 foot of dirt.

I'm not sure if it was a spring house or not, but the old miner trail down the mountain went within about 60 feet of the spring.  We found a horseshoe and mule shoe from the old days on the trail.

There was another one near our area shown on an old map as the Oak Springhouse if I remember right.

Here is info an a spring house and a picture of the more permanent rock variety along with a nice story of how it was used.



http://waltonfeed.com/old/springhs.html
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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MountainDon

And back home in the Canadian prairies my uncle who had a small farm had an "icehouse" that was actually built of wood boards. It was sited over a large pit that was filled with block ice cut from a nearby lake in the winter. The blocks were piled in the pit and covered with sawdust. The removable plank floor was replaced. In the summer the day's milking was suspended in the pit thru one of several hatches in the plank floor.

The icehouse got turned into a garden shed after the farm got updated with power and modern appliances.

No pictures tho'   :(
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


glenn kangiser

That's interesting, Don.  There is an Ice House road down here in the mountains somewhere - had an old ice house there.  Eastern and central Oregon has ice caves that never thaw in the summer.  The cold is heavy and just stays down there.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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MountainDon

#40
There's a cave in NM that has ice all year

http://www.icecaves.com/

In Utah I've seen an old settlers "cabin" in the desert canyons. It was set in a sandstone alcove with a timber framed floor and outer wall. The other three walls and roof were sandstone. A short walk up a narrow canyon was a spring and pool, their water supply. A little further back thru a narrow opening was the "ice box". There was no ice, but the evaporation of the water flowing over the sandstone walls made it quite cool even in the hot summer.

I have photos somewhere on paper. Maybe I'll find them.  :-/

The people had a small copper mine as well as their own moonshine still. Not all Utah settlers were Mormons.  :)

I have another interesting story about early settlers and moonshine in Utah.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

Sassy

Really "cool" MtnDon!  Glenn & I went to Tule Lake in N Calif.  We explored a lot of lava tubes - we found an ice cave - Glenn climbed down into it - quite a contrast from near 100 degree weather to freezing!  We also went to Lake Shasta & Bumpass Hell - a small Yellowstone Park with bubbling, steaming water & mud ponds - really neat.  Our pics are on paper, too...
http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/

You will know the truth & the truth will set you free

glenn kangiser

Not all Mormons shunned moonshine.  I think they were called Jack Mormons.  Had one working for me once - not moonshine but beer -- lots of beer.  So let's hear it. :)

That spring in the mountains reminds me of the time Sassy and I rode the Honda 70 eight miles across the .... nevermind I think I told that one already. :-?
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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MountainDon

#43
I can't find the photos I wanted... I think they're paper.

On a trip in Utah we met some ancestors of a pioneer family. The Marsing family lived on the banks of the Green River aboout 20 miles straight south of the town of Green River, UT in the 1930's. By river it was more like 30+ miles I think. They settled on a section of river bank that was/is known as June's Bottom.  38.71282 N     110.09998 W



To get there overland is quite a trip today. At least it was until about 5 years ago. The BLM closed the area to vehicle travel because of overzealous environmentalists. The Green River along here is a designated Scenic River. Even though there is ample evidence of prior habitation the BLM declared the western side of the Green to be a pristine wilderness area and barred all vehicular access. But that's another rant... we'll let that be.

A portion of June's Bottom from the other side of the river.... You can see the roadway the Marsings built. There's extensive rock retaining walls still standing and serviceable today. Today the banks of the Green are overgrown with Tamarisk because the river no longer flood seasonally. Just like the Colorado.



They built a cabin. They had a steam powered water pumping and irrigation system. They grew corn as well as vegetables for their own consumption in the fine bottom land. But the prime crop was corn. Here's another view with June's Bottom on the left side of the photo.



So why did they live way out in the middle of nowhere and grow corn? They also had a still and make moonshine! When they had a sufficient quantity bottled up in Mason jars they'd make the overland trek north to the town of Green River. There the children would sell treasure maps. They'd go back home and await the arrival of the map purchasers by the riverside. The maps would be redeemed and everyone was happy. Thay did that for several years before moving on to some other venture.

Today the remains of their cabin, the boiler and the frame of an old Model T truck and a few other scattered pieces remain down there. Those are the photos I can't locate.

Here's where we took the pictures from. It's also a trek across the desert, although not as challenging as the other side.



Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

MountainDon

Another old Utah cabin in Eagle Canyon. No windows, must have been a dreary existence.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


glenn kangiser

#45
Interesting story, Don.  I trucked through Green River pulling a 45' reefer about 25 years ago.  Didn't need a reefer - it was plenty cold outside. :o

Sod roof on the building at one time?  or something else?
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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MountainDon

Sod as I recall. It amazing that people lived out there at all.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

glenn kangiser

I thought it might be due to the front log on top the edge of the eaves -- looks like a sod retaining log. :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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John Raabe

#48
On Whidbey island there are remains of several depression era pully systems hidden on various beach properties that were used to do midnight loadings of "rum runners" - small moonshine boats that would service the cities of Everett and Seattle with our fine local brews.  :o
None of us are as smart as all of us.

glenn kangiser

That's cool -- pirates grog.  What a bunch of outlaws. ;D
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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