The Fiscal Cliff

[sparks]

   Me ?    Option 2

And I wish I had a lot more of option 3 at the moment.





sparks

[MushCreek]

I think they'll reach some sort of compromise, like they always do. This will, of course just set up a bigger cliff, which is inevitable.

[peternap]

Who cares!
The world is ending in a few days anyway.

[OlJarhead]

Not sure I'd use 'compromise' since it's a lose lose lose no matter what happens.  Let's examine:

1.  Republicans do nothing and the tax rates go up for everyone -- Dems win in many ways, Republicans lose, economy loses, American people lose, deficit continues to be over $1TRILLION and the Debt continues to climb.
2.  Republicans agree to raise taxes on those making $200k-$250k and more -- Dems win in many ways, Republicans lose, economy loses, American people lose, deficit continues to be over $1TRILLION and the Debt continues to climb.
3.  Republicans agree to raise taxes and Obama agrees to actually cut spending more then a few hundred million a year -- Dems win in many ways, Republicans lose, economy loses, American people lose, deficit continues to be over $1TRILLION and the Debt continues to climb.

Doesn't matter how you cut the cake folks because NO ONE is willing to do what needs to be done and EVERYONE in power is only going to try to do what will help them politically.

My view, for what it is worth is as follows: 

1.  Increasing taxes won't raise revenues but rather, as has been proven historically, lowering taxes will (Even Obama admitted this once or twice but then admitted he wanted to raise taxes on the 'rich' anyway).
2.  Only cuts to the budget which eliminate ALL borrowing will stop the debt from increasing which means cuts of over $1TRILLION PER YEAR.
3.  Only cutting government programs en masse, cutting social (ist) services (SS, Medicare, Medicade, HUD, Food Stamps etc etc etc) as well as cutting military spending (not nearly as high as most think and much lower then social programs but would still help) along with cutting regulations and government control of the economy will reduce the deficit/debt and increase economic strength.

The Austrians were right, Keynesians would do well to understand what Maynard had in mind, Mises knows better and Liberty is the answer no socialism

OK Now I'll shut up! lol

[Ndrmyr]

Semper Fi!

It is doable, but, with so many drinking deeply from the Government trough, and voting eagerly to build bigger troughs, I fear that the natural end of any republic is in sight.  We will most likely go out with a whimper not a bang.

There is hope, in that our increasing energy independence will help our enconomy.  The oil in the Bakken and our enourmous reserves of natural gas are positioned to give us a real shot in the arm economically.

But, we need a government focused on cutting expenses, and that isn't about to happen in the near future.

[sparks]

  I've been watching a few sites, this one .......in particular......

http://www.c-span.org/Events/Fiscal-Cliff-Agreement-Passes-in-the-Senate-House-to-Act-Next/10737436933-4/

Quite a bit of live coverage.

What I fear is the sounds and sights of the machinery paving the road........for the bus. Happy New Year folks. 2013 is going to be a riot.



sparks

[muldoon]

It's all theater. 

[sparks]

  "It's all theater"

   Yes, Muldoon, very true......

  A stage on which The Government of the United States of America is about to enter in to its final act of the play........yeah, it might take a few more years.

  And the price of the tickets won't be going down.



  sparks

[sparks]

  Looks like Congress just approved the Senate bill......Whew!.. that was close......Mr Obama will surely put his ink on it........

  Yep, the Gov't just saved the day......makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over.......

  Golly gee, I just love my elected officials......

  Don't you???



  sparks
 



 

[rick91351]

WOW I was really worried that they might not give His Expectancy his wishes. 

Now on to bigger and greater things like trips, golf and gun control......................

Glad DC came through in a pinch..........

[sparks]

  Just goes to show you that the polls are never that accurate......

  20 per cent of the unofficial CP poll said a compromise would be reached......they were right!!

  Uugh


  sparks

[Ndrmyr]

To not begin cutting spending is madness. Some countries have made huge strides in the last few years, Canada, Ireland, just by cutting spending.  A 10% cut across the board would be huge going forward.  Money that could be used to begin driving our current debt/GDP ratio of 105 down into the double digits.  But....no!  We're addicted to debt and spending.  If we ran our households in this fashion, we would soon be bankrupt.
But, I suspect I am preaching to the choir.  Most of us here must be on the tight side, or, we'd just buy a subdivision home right?

[OlJarhead]

Wonder if anyone even cares that the bill was technically unconstitutional from the start?

Section 7. All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills

This bill originating in the Senate.

One major problem today is that no one in DC seems to bother following the Constitution.  It's really simple and would go a long way to helping solve our problems if we just bothered to use it.  Here are the steps in lay terms:

1.  House passes a bill.
2.  Senate passes, rejects, or amends the bill.
3.  House either accepts amendments to the bill via the senate or rejects them -- bill dies if not accepted.
4.  If bill passed by both houses then it's sent to the President.


Seriously, if we just followed the damn rules then perhaps things would change.  For one, the House would drive the entire process and as such Mr. President and the Senate would just have to live with it and if they didn't like the bills then THEY would shut down DC which, frankly, WOULD NOT be a bad thing.

It never hurt in the past, in fact often helped (Clinton's so called 'balanced budget' was forced on him by the House by passing bills and letting DC shut down repeatedly until Clinton came along kicking and screaming).

Maybe Bonehead (er, Boehner) will stop crying and start acting like the leader he should be.

[Ajax]

Wonder if anyone even cares that the bill was technically unconstitutional from the start?

This bill originating in the Senate.

The bill the Senate passed was H.R. 8, so it did originate in the House.