I'm curious how you protect both health and safety on your properties, especially those of you who are very remote.
My property is an hour by rock and mud road. I pass through three very large ranches (three locked gates) to get in. It is a jarring and unforgiving path. There are issues with poachers on our property, although I have been told that when they see owners the poachers skedaddle out pretty quick.
I'm concerned about three main threats:
1) Two legged predators
2) Four legged predators (bears and lions)
3) Accidental injury. I will probably be on this property alone on occasion.
I am a competitive shooter, and am competent with all sorts of firearms. I wear a firearm most of the time, and my oldest daughter is fairly competent too. My wife and youngest daughter are unskilled. Besides, I think that guns should be a last resort anyway, and would prefer to flee than fight (nobody ever found themselves in court due to running away from a fight). I am contemplating the location of the cabin, as either being hidden in the woods, or more out in the open. I'd like neighbors to see the cabin, but I rarely have company there, so I suspect that having a cabin in the open exposes me to risk. Thoughts????
For four legged problems (two of the cabins up there have bear paw prints on the sides, and one has a corner chewed on), Counter Assault spray first, lead second.
And what about #3? I am wondering if I can check in with a local law enforcement office on the way in and the way out. Leave a map and GPS coordinates with them, and a drop dead time that I will be out. Sort of a flight plan for the day. Does anybody do this?
I hated flight plans because there was always the chew out if you forgot to close your plan and they went looking for you. Best way is to tell someone the day you should be back and have them check if they haven't heard from you a day or two late in my opinion and preferably a mountain or something you can call in from occasionally if you decide to stay longer - otherwise the alternative is to not be able to change your mind and stay longer -- you must leave or risk the search party.
Peter Nap has had good luck with game cameras for 2 legged intruders.
I don't worry myself too much about it. I'm sure hunters or hikers will someday discover the body. I'll probably ruin their day. Sorry about that in advance-- whoever you are. [crz]
You worry too much. Just use your common sence. Nothing in this life is 100% safe. IMO you are more likely to have problems with people in town than out in the bush.
I think this stems from the training we receive from the government and lawyers.
The government will see to it that we are safe -- at the cost of our freedom and our kids lives --- but most fall for the trap of wanting security.
...and Lawyers -- they will help make someone else responsible for a percentage of the take.
I think we all need to just become pioneers -- interact with our friends and neighbors and leave the parasites out of it.
For cabin location, I prefer secluded at least. Makes them have to look harder before they can steal.
They have electric fences for bears. We create bear boards for stairs by taking plywood and pounding nails all the way through them and placing them on the stairs. We also shutter windows.
You can get one of those SPOT transmitters that you can hit a button and send an e-mail to someone saying you are ok or it sends out your GPS coordinates if you push distress. They are $150. Friends can also watch where you are through Google Earth.
There is no option for real time viewing in Google Earth I didn't think --- most pix are at least a few months old.
A big dog.
We had a large 100# dog named Peanut. His nick name was Bear Bait. He did his job. He scared away Bears. I am certain that a cougar could probably take him, but he would have given more then enough time to escape or react. Peanut is no longer with us, and currently I have to rat terrors. They will do their duty with rats and small animals, but not with Bears. I hope when we move to our property we can get another large dog.
I understand and share your concern with security. It has been somthing I have considered from various points of view as well.
I think security is a process, and not a product. Nothing you can buy will make you secure and nothing you spend will get you there either. However, a layered approach and attention to the process will get you a long way ... a real long way. I'm fairly sure everyone has heard the anecdote that says something along the lines of two men were walking through the plains of africa and see a lion eying them hungrily. One guy drops to his knees and starts tieing up his running shoes really tight. The other guy says you dont really think your going to outrun the lion do you? Nope, but I dont have to .. I only have to outrun you. The same principle applies here, get under the radar, dont be the low hanging fruit. It sounds like your there.. good grief, an hour over rocky muddy and 3 locked gates. Your off the beaten path for sure. Building out in the sticks has some advantages in terms of being off the radar, as people dont generally go walking for hours into the woods looking for someone to rob. You mentioned you do have some poacher problems. I would lay good odds that those 3 ranches you pass through have workers or friends of the workers that hunt the area. If you befriend them you might even get to hunt their properties as well.
Here are some things you can do to enhance what you have though.
Game cams, especially hidden ones. Take a look at the community around building your own: Go here and lurk a spell to get some ideas. http://www.chasingame.com/forum/index.php
Speak with the local game warden and sherrif, sometimes just talking with the locals about whats going on has a way of resolving things. In alot of small towns the sheriffs know exactly whats going on and might mention it to the people responsible over the next few days. Odd how it works out like that in small towns.
For 2 legged threats, really you'v done much more than most and liklely shouldn't have too much of a problem. However, if your concerned about tomorrow and really want to tighten up I think you should read these two books:
http://www.amazon.com/Secure-Home-Joel-Skousen/dp/1568610556 - he is a security consultant who specializes in self sustainablility houses.
and
http://www.amazon.com/Patriots-Surviving-Collapse-Turbulent-Expanded/dp/1425734073/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206474629&sr=1-1
- which to be honest was a lousy novel but had alot of ideas about security of a rural house in it.
At the end of it, and aside from the obvious things like having a fence and locking gate, your best security will come from the relationships you build with your neighbors. My neighbors are good people who do help look out for me since I do not live there. It makes all the difference in the world. If someone were going to come find your property to rob you it is highly likely they would have to cross your neighbors places first - if they are on your side your going to fair much better.
Right about the friends with the neighbors, Muldoon.
My neighbor is ex-LAPD and my easements cross his place. His crosses our other place.
He often has friends who want to see the place, so I told him just to show them through it - even if we are not there. We still don't bother each other with day to day things and give each other our respective space, but anytime help is wanted or needed we are there.
He interrogates strangers who show up on the mountain. He has a lot more guns than I do. :)
[1] Well, IMO you probably have enough locked gates already to discourage the casual trespasser. Those and the general condition of the final approach road. :D Most poachers probably would rather make themselves scarce when/if they heard you coming. We have several pairs of binoculars so MTL we'll have a pair with us most of the time. They let us spy out anyone we might see from afar, helping to decide to approach or not.
[2] Not much you can do to keep the animals at bay when you're not there. For when you are there a bell(s) that are worn everywhere, every time anyone is outside can lend safety by making the animals more aware of your presence. You probably already know that. Bear boards sound like an idea, although my paranoia rears its ugly head and wonders what crazy bad things could happen with a wacky judge if some trespasser fell on them. Farfetched? Maybe, but nothing is too nuts.
A game camera or two would be nice to have on several points. (a) they could provide useful info, nice pictures of the trespassers, as one did for peter Nap a short time ago. (b) they will likely capture some interesting wildlife.
The bear spray would work on nasty 2 legged varmints as well. ;D
As much as I like my .45 revolvers I'm beginning to think that a pump shotgun makes a better useful weapon when bears might be the target.
[3] Injuries. We are fortunate in that in many places on and around our property we have good cell phone reception. Coverage is not ubiquitous though. Great coverage right around the cabin though. 8)
I like our plan of placing the cabin sort of hidden in the trees, rather than out in the open. It may escape detection from a casual trespasser a little easier. We will have shutters to help prevent easy access by 2 or 4 legged varmints. If I'm up there alone my wife knows when to be concerned. That wouldn't do me much good if I felled a tree on top of myself and wasn't due back for a day or two. There are some chances one must take. I try to be careful. If we're both up there we notify our son or a friend knows when we're expecting to return. There's no law enforcement agency convenient for a personal drop by, and the ranger station is closed about half the time we'd be passing by either up or down.
In reality one is probably in more personal danger on the drive up and down or in/around big towns. Although the exception to that rule is why I like a non concealed firearm when in the boonies. It won't frighten off a bear but I believe does have an effect on 2 legged varmints who may have evil deeds in mind.
I do it with my Mini-14 and 12 ga pump shotgun stagger loaded with slugs and 00 Buck 3 inch mags. The 3 dogs weighting in at aroound 500 lbs total combined is also a deterant. If I am out in the toolies the shot gun is nice it can stop any living thing in the USA! Mark
What's the old saying... "I have a gun, a pickup truck, and a shovel".
The injury thing is a problem. I ride my bicycle most evenings, usually 15 or 20 miles up and down the semi private dead end road by my house. I tell folks that what is good about my ride is what's bad about my ride. I often go an hour or so and don't see a car, another person or even a dog. Deer and turkeys are the main hazards. About two years ago, at the end of the road by the river, I fell and broke my hip. It was about 45 minutes until someone found me. They had to drive a couple miles to get a cell phone signal. Seven weeks after surgery I was riding again. IMHO, if that sort of thing really bothers you, go live in the city. It's why they are called remote areas.
I have a shotgun, a rifle and a four wheel drive and a country boy can survive.
With your heavy machinery a shovel would be superfulous ;D
A Kubota with a Back Hoe can help hid anything six feet under....... ;D
I lock the doors, (house and bedroom), and have a .38 in the night stand. I also have a loaded shotgun in the bedroom closet. If we're not here, they can have it all...if I am here, I will shoot, explain it and clean up the mess.....Don't come in our house unless you're invited .... cops and homeland security included. Alabama says my house is mine and I can kill you to protect it......and...I still believe in a LEGAL search warrent.....(even if Bush and Cheney don't!)
The junk we own ain't worth gettin killed for or killin for....our lives are.
Rob me when I'm not home
My junk's yours.....and I'll cry
Rob me when I am home
Your junk's mine...and you'll die!
Game cameras can work well for getting pictures, but hide them well. We use them at work (I'm a Biologist) and occasionally they disappear.
In my neighborhood I havent had much stolen but I have suffered broken windows and graffiti. Quite a pain.
When it comes down to it a gun is just as useful on a homestead as a shovel when you need it. For two and four legged varments, or if you raise livestock of any kind, there just may be an instance where you need to put something down and Im not cutting the head off of anything live but a chicken.
As for locking things up. I've seen bears tear through just about anything if there is something they want on the other side... including two 12 inch diameter logs that were part of a cabin wall. People can be downright distructive... locks keep honest people out. Locally I read a story in the paper about a couple of folks being caught cutting into a gun safe with a torch the other week.
The more remote you are the less likely someone is going to go through the trouble to haul your stuff out.
These days it seems the problem is kids with no parental guidance causing trouble more than someone looking to get something for nothing.
Do you find that they come up from the valley or local, cholland?
Grafiti makes me think Valley
Quote from: ScottA on March 25, 2008, 12:39:43 PM
You worry too much. Just use your common sence.
Hah! You don't know the half of it. Worry is conditioned in. I'm a EE who used to design redundant controls for sub sea blow out preventers. We used to examine systems for failure points and make sure problems did not happen. My wife is VERY patient. I am the guy who had 600 gallons of water stored in a kiddie pool in the garage on New Years 1999, along with more canned beans than I'd be comfortable admitting. ;D But I was also the guy with extra food / meds / water purification when we got stuck in the bush in Canada because the weather kept the planes out.
I live in the desert, and we don't so much as picnic on the west mesa without 5 gallons of water, sleeping bags, fuel, and extra chow in the truck. You know the weirdo survivalist on the movie "Tremors"? I make him look like a cub scout. I always have a plan, and a backup plan. Too many folks head off in search of the great outdoors with zero clue on how to take care of themselves. If I get in trouble, it is going to be because of the malevolence of something / someone, or because of some completely random accident (anybody ever read the book "The Black Swan"?)
We suspect that the land is being poached by the rancher family that we lease our land to. They come out on the property once or twice a week to check fences and cattle. This area is old land grant property, and some of the folks around Northern NM still have bad feelings about "new rich white land owners". Any Anglo who has spent any time in Mora valley knows what I am talking about. I don't go up there without my beautiful Spanish wife :)
We've had a couple of cabins get broken into, and stuff stolen, but no confrontations. If it were just me, I would not give a crap. But I have kids, and that throws off the nature of the response. The best safety is a big group of buddies.
Anybody want to buy some land in my corporation? ;D
Sounds like you'd be safe to hang out with, NM. We also were at least prepared on Y2K -- Doesn't hurt to be ready.
BOE -- I used to weld on well heads --very securely to keep them from blowing off -- on land of course. I was the only one in the area who could do it properly. One other welder they tried had so much weld inside they couldn't get their drill through the hole -- and he later called me and told me he was going to run me out of business. I had worked for his grandfather. Unfortunately he went out of business. I'm still here 34 years later...at least the last time I checked I was. [crz]
I carry way too much stuff in the Jeep, or so it seems to many. To me too at times when I'm trying to find space for something else. Water: some for me/us, some for the Jeep, although we'll share if need be. :D Tools, some parts, tire plugs and so on. (I have a left & right front axle complete with u-joints installed... beats changing a broken axle u-joint on the trail using a hammer, socket and rock.)
Northern NM is a different place. Very closed feeling to outsiders. Everybody is related to everybody, or so it seems. Also home to some of NM's finest illicit drug labs. :o
You seem to have the same set of tools I carry, Don. Necessity is the mother of invention, and I would have probably done OK in the stone age. I use rocks for lots of things.
rofl rofl
QuoteNorthern NM is a different place.......Everybody is related to everybody
rofl
From the land that brought you Deliverance. Where the Hatfields & McCoys are kin (Actually they were/are kin)
Is that a tip off mount on the scope?
... a Lever Scout with quick release rings.
I don't shoot well with iron sights anymore. I have several rifles with leupold 1.5 - 5 scopes. They handle very fast at low power. My kin to your rifle is a 30-30 Winchester Trapper with a 16" barrel. I bought it many years ago because it would fit between the wheel wells of my Jeep. I don't like shooting it but it's the one I keep handy because, well, it's handy.
A picture of some of my toys.
Ruger Mini-14 .223
M1A/M14 Match Grade 7.62
12 Ga. with a few handy 3" Mag Slugs/OObuck
Lots of rounds in Mags for the other two even a vest to carry them in. Mark
(http://www.kountrylife.com/gallery/3409.jpg)
30-30 -- I shot a skunk in the head with one under the kitchen sink in my dads place in Oregon when I was about 9.
Bad scene -- brains all over the kitchen. hmm
Kill any plumbing? ???
How long were your ears ringing?
Quote from: John C on March 29, 2008, 10:23:06 PM
I don't shoot well with iron sights anymore.
Tell me about it. :(
Thank goodness for optical sights, :) even 2.5X makes the difference
Quote from: John C on March 29, 2008, 10:47:02 PM
Kill any plumbing? ???
How long were your ears ringing?
1. No, I was a very good shot - even at that age. Skunk stuck it's head through a hole in the floor as the kitchen was a woodshed originally --converted to part of a house after the original one burned down. I don't know if mom ever covered that hole up, but she has remodeled a couple times so I think she has.
2. What did you say? hmm
I knew of a Delta pilot who shot at a rat under the kitchen sink. He stuck his head under there and blasted the rat with a .38 revolver. Blew away a supply line too and the muzzle report was virtually deafening with his head stuck under the cabinet.
When there was a debate whether pilots should be armed I was basically in favor of it..... just not all of them.
When my daughter was a junior in HS she stayed home sick one day and I went off to work. She was laying on the couch and heard a noise on the porch. Someone was walking around; they didn't knock on the door but walked around looking through windows. She was frightened and slid off the couch and more or less hid under the coffee table. She called the sheriff on her cell phone, then me and tried several neighbors. I drove home as fast as I could but it was probably 15 min. before I got there. It was another half hour before the sheriff arrived. Other than very scared she was fine, but the length of time she was on her own changed her outlook.
In spite of calling every number she could think of she was on her own in a rather isolated house in the woods for almost an hour. We never found out who had been at the house and nothing was damaged or stolen, but she had been sick, alone and terrified. Soon thereafter my daughter wanted to learn how to handle the guns and shoot straight. In college she is taking a variety of self defense classes. She goes to a military college with a large Army Ranger community ... a good place to learn self defense techniques.
Most folks ignore security until scared into changing their ways. I did.
BTW... I found a "cheap" GPS based transmitter that has some neat features, including an "OK" button that transmits an "I am well" signal to folks who want to know and can track your position online. It costs $170, but requires a $100 annual license fee to access.
You can also hit a button that is a mid-level request for assistance. This button prompts an email message or phone text message that indicates that you need help, but does not prompt the 911 emergency rescue. There is a seperate button for the 911 mode.
http://www.findmespot.com/home.aspx
This would save a whole lot of backcountry skiers. We just lost two snowboarders off the back side of Wolf Creek this season. They still have not been found.
-f-
hi,
first post. man, you guys had me crackin' up with some of these posts and replies. luv it! what was it one poster said? made the survivor guy on "tremors" look like a cub scout? had me LOL. c*
i too have a survivalists mentality and am looking to build a cabin from one of these plans(got it narrowed down to two). i am very pleased to see people with my own instincts here.
.38 special, ultra compact V-10 springfield 45 cal., and my prized M1A similar to what i had in nam(usmc).
looking to get a shotgun soon. had to sell my marlin 450 guide gun, sks, p-38 and bennelli super black eagle when i got sick and lost home and everything 5 years ago. startin' over, no credit, pay as you go(hence the interest in this site).
don't know where i will build yet but am open to suggestions and if close to posters will trade labor for help/labor.
hope to hear from you posters anything on your mind about my situation.
god save us from our leaders. i'm outta here.
apaknad w* to the board. Some go a little overbaord while others a little under. So they balance themselves out. What area are you from now and where to you plan to go? Myself I have taken up permanent residency and have no plans of relocating unless my little piece of heaven falls off the face of the earth. In that case I will probably go with it. ;D
hi redover,
don't know where to go yet but would like to hear opinions and suggestions and who knows, maybe i can be a neighbor from a , or some, posters. still looking and weighing options. i am in mich. for now. staying here to help mom(92 y.o. and has terminal cancer). after i deal with estate i will leave here. single but would like to find a like minded g.f.
wow, just watched that movie "into the wild" and saw alot of myself in it. scary and sad.
what area you from redover?
i also posed on some survival info earlier if you want to see.
looking for new friends because old ones are blind for the most part to the general situation and are NOT prepared for anything! :(
Nice to see someone who can see what's up.
Ernest T Bass - Andrew is in U.P. Mich I think. I find myself to be lazy enough that I don't want to fight the weather in the winter so I hang out in California....at least until they come to haul me off to a detention camp-- then I guess it's free lunch. [crz]
In the Mountain State near the Va state line. A really good place to hide. Unlike Ca where everyone knows Glenn. By the way Glenn haven't you learned by now that "nothings free".
I have mountains and I find more mine's....caves every week....guess I better go run that bear out of that one soon - I may need it. :)
hmm no free lunch?
hi all,
r-farm, how are the land prices out there? i know it is a beautiful state and like u said can b secluded.
Just depends on which area of the state you are looking at. Mountains, level,river or all three. They are getting like everywhere else. Some mountain land is still reasonable with $500-2K per acre. Level areas 2-10K. I would go to some of the major realtors in that state and take a look on line of what they have to offer.