14x24 CABIN
Just registered with the site. I'm waiting on the Big Enchilada plans that I ordered last Thursady, hopefully they'll be here this week. ;D
I've got a question about the post and pier foundation. I work with heavy equipment(excavators, dozers, backhoe's, etc.), and the property I have has good gravel down at about 4 feet. It's part of an area where glaciers receded many years ago, hence the good gravel that we mine out regularly for roads, driveways, and such. I'm in Alaska(Matanuska Susitna Valley) by the way, I haven't had a chance to update my profile.
The question I have is if I can dig down to good gravel, tamp it down, and set the sonotubes on that. The gravel is usually about 2-3 feet deep, once you hit 4 foot of depth. I'm hoping to get started in the next couple weeks, so any information would be greatly appreciated. Winter comes quick up here, so I want to get the concrete set before it starts getting colder.
Oh, by the way, I'll be building the 14x24 little house plan to start off with, and then hopefully expand from there down the road. Thanks in advance for your help. :)
w* - It sounds like a good plan to me if the gravel is well drained or can be made so and does not heave in freezes.
Not in a flood area is it?
Thanks for the reply Glenn. Yes, it's in a 100 year flood plain, but hasn't flooded this area in 40+ years. I have no code compliance to deal with, but wanted to put it on piers just to be safe. My neighbor has a basement, and gets some water seepage during "break up". My property fronts a river, but where I'm building is about 500 feet or so from it. The bank sits at about 10 foot, and only a part of the river actually "flows" past the property at the bank. The rest is on the middle channel, with a gravel bar on the western part of the property.
I might get some frost heave, I might not, I guess it depends. We bury electrical transmission lines at 4 feet, and telephone a foot above that. They don't seem to get heave with a full basement next door, so I'm hoping that the piers will be less of a problem. Good gravel base, with concrete on top.
I also was wondering how deep for the sonotubes? They tend to sell 4 footers up here, and I don't want to set them right at grade. Would it be ok with the gravel base I described, and have the sonotubes set into the ground for 3 feet, and have 1 foot out of the ground to insert my beam brackets? Thanks again for your help.
That would likely be better as the base could be a bit bigger to give more support. You may want to do it in a way that will allow adjustment a bit if necessary later - undo bolts - shim etc.
Thanks for the quick reply Glenn, I appreciate it. ;D I'm so excited, I'm practically jumping out of my skin. It's been a long time coming, and I'm finally at my desired location. There will sure to be many more questions, I've been monitoring the forum for over a year, but finally decided to order the plans I want and move forward. Thanks again for such a great site for information that I can glean. :)
Our pleasure - we all benefit. :)
On another note, I put my location in my profile, but it doesn't seem to show up when I post. Any suggestions?
You need to put it on the personal text line and save it at the bottom when done - Don did a tutorial...
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=4973.0
Quote from: glenn kangiser on August 04, 2008, 10:05:31 PM
You need to put it on the personal text line and save it at the bottom when done - Don did a tutorial...
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=4973.0
Thanks!! Got it. [cool]
The Signature line is at the bottom where you have the I - near the bottom of the same edit profile page. Custom title (above signature on edit page) comes up where mine says The Troglodyte
Quote from: glenn kangiser on August 04, 2008, 08:31:05 PM
That would likely be better as the base could be a bit bigger to give more support. You may want to do it in a way that will allow adjustment a bit if necessary later - undo bolts - shim etc.
Would you be referring to having 5/8" threaded rod set into the concrete in the sonotubes, and then attaching a nut below the Simpson bracket for adjustability? I haven't got the plans yet, so I'm just curious how you would go about achieving this? ???
w* Mad Dog
Just curious what kind of ranch you can have in Alaska. Raindeer?
I used threaded brackets. The rods fit into those concrete blocks you see in the back ground. There are washers and bolts, and I could make vertical adjustments that way. I hope, if the ground settles, I'll still be able to make adjustments....with a longer lever.
(https://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk265/considerations/Goodies.jpg)
What considerations posted would work great - use a piece of 3/4 pvc with a plug on the bottom to keep the hole open or 1/2 inch would work if removed after the concrete has set but before you cant get it out, or a piece of 3/4 steel pipe - you could check 1/2 inch pipe but it may likely be too tight.
Quote from: ScottA on August 05, 2008, 03:08:05 PM
w* Mad Dog
Just curious what kind of ranch you can have in Alaska. Raindeer?
Too funny Scott. :D Although there is a place down the road that is a functioning reindeer farm. I've got horses, chickens, maybe a couple alpaca in the next couple weeks. Plan on getting some cattle, after the cabin is built for meat/milk, among other things. d*
Quote from: considerations on August 05, 2008, 04:56:30 PM
I used threaded brackets. The rods fit into those concrete blocks you see in the back ground. There are washers and bolts, and I could make vertical adjustments that way. I hope, if the ground settles, I'll still be able to make adjustments....with a longer lever.
(https://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk265/considerations/Goodies.jpg)
Thanks! That's what I was figuring, just needed to know how that was done, since I'm pouring concrete. Glenn followed up your post with what I need to do to get them in.
Quote from: glenn kangiser on August 05, 2008, 07:56:02 PM
What considerations posted would work great - use a piece of 3/4 pvc with a plug on the bottom to keep the hole open or 1/2 inch would work if removed after the concrete has set but before you cant get it out, or a piece of 3/4 steel pipe - you could check 1/2 inch pipe but it may likely be too tight.
Thanks Glenn, I've got it now. [cool] Basically pour the sonotubes, and set the piece of pvc/steel pipe in the concrete. Once it dries, I can then just set those brackets in place. No need to seal them in there, just drop them in, and set the beams on top?
Yes - the beams will hold them from turning then the nut can be adjusted to fine tune height. Be sure to line centers with a string though as there is not much room for error that way. Possibly extend the pipes - drill a couple 1/8 holes and nail them to a 2x4 to hold in line for pouring the footing then when set cut the pipes at the top of the concrete.
It is always easier to have things firmly fastened when pouring concrete - if not it seems there are always alignment problems.
Duct tape may plug the pipe ends fine.
Welcome from another Alaskan! Not that I'm anywhere near you living down in Southeast. Best wishes on your build!
Quote from: akemt on August 06, 2008, 11:27:28 AM
Welcome from another Alaskan! Not that I'm anywhere near you living down in Southeast. Best wishes on your build!
Thanks for the welcome fellow Alaskan. It feels like we've been having your normal summer weather here this year. Sunny out today though. ;D
Quote from: glenn kangiser on August 06, 2008, 10:56:35 AM
Yes - the beams will hold them from turning then the nut can be adjusted to fine tune height. Be sure to line centers with a string though as there is not much room for error that way. Possibly extend the pipes - drill a couple 1/8 holes and nail them to a 2x4 to hold in line for pouring the footing then when set cut the pipes at the top of the concrete.
It is always easier to have things firmly fastened when pouring concrete - if not it seems there are always alignment problems.
Duct tape may plug the pipe ends fine.
Thanks, got my plans in the mail yesterday. Time to move forward.
Best of luck on your project.
My building site was gravel, from the surface down at least 35' to the bottom of my test hole. Great for building, but awful for trying to get grass growing. I built my house with a slab on grade foundation. My engineer said that properly compacted, settlement would be less than 1/2". My place is in the hundred year flood plain, so I added a foot and a half of gravel to get above the floodplain elevation. I have a small mortgage on my place, so it was nice to avoid flood insurance. If you are working with a bank, you might want to consider seeing if you can get your floor above the floodplain elevation.
Quote from: akdreamin on August 06, 2008, 02:53:05 PM
Best of luck on your project.
My building site was gravel, from the surface down at least 35' to the bottom of my test hole. Great for building, but awful for trying to get grass growing. I built my house with a slab on grade foundation. My engineer said that properly compacted, settlement would be less than 1/2". My place is in the hundred year flood plain, so I added a foot and a half of gravel to get above the floodplain elevation. I have a small mortgage on my place, so it was nice to avoid flood insurance. If you are working with a bank, you might want to consider seeing if you can get your floor above the floodplain elevation.
Thanks for the info. Fortunately for me, I'm building out of pocket, so the bankers will have no say in the project. ;) According to my surveyor, I'll be good at the height I'm setting the sonotubes and beams. Good info to have, flood insurance isn't exactly cheap. d*
Just wanted to post up a couple pics I took today. A couple are of the view I'll have from the cabin, and the other is looking down where I'll be putting in the driveway.
Also got the power augur out and drilled down to gravel at about 3 1/2 feet. Just wanted to ask if it's ok to fill in with 6"-12" of gravel on top of that, and then set in the sonotube? Is it ok to have the sonotube 1 1/2 feet out of the ground with 2 1/2 feet set in the ground on that gravel, or should I make sure it's in the ground a full 3 feet? Thanks. ;D
Guess I'm going to have to wait on the pics until I can figure out how to post them. The setup here is a little different than some forums I'm used to. Hit insert image, and you can usually browse the pics on your computer to insert. Doesn't seem to do that here. Any help? ???
MtDon has a tutorial on adding images
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=3512.0
There is no storage for images here but you can save them to Photobucket then past the IMG link here to show them, per the above tutorial.
Ok, let's see if these pics work.
(https://i511.photobucket.com/albums/s355/MadDog126/Driveway.jpg)
(https://i511.photobucket.com/albums/s355/MadDog126/PioneerPeak1.jpg)
(https://i511.photobucket.com/albums/s355/MadDog126/PioneerPeak2.jpg)
Sweeeeet!!!
Talk about a million dollar view! [cool]
Thanks, you can actually hear the stream/waterfall coming down the mountain if you just stand there and listen. :)
Looks like I'll be making a trip to Home Despot for some supplies in the next week. At a minimum get the tubes and concrete in the ground, along with the beams, joists, and t&g. Then I've got my parents and nephew coming up for a couple weeks, so I'll have to put off walls and such until the end of August/beginning of September.
I wanted to ask a question about the beams and the joists. I see the plans calling for 4x8 beams, and 2x6 joists. One of the local cabin builders up here, uses 4x12 beams, and either 2x8, 2x10, or 2x12 for the joists, depending on the span. Is it ok to go with the 4x12 for the beams, and 2x12, or at least 2x10 for the joists? I'd like to do this to increase the amount of insulation I can fit between the joists, for obvious reasons. 8)
whoa...beautious!!!
Spenard Builders will deliver. They dropped off 20,000 lbs of material for my Red Shirt Lake Project.
Quote from: kenhill on August 07, 2008, 07:59:43 PM
Spenard Builders will deliver. They dropped off 20,000 lbs of material for my Red Shirt Lake Project.
Thanks for the info. Any problems with a lot of twisted lumber? That's why I usually like to pick it all out myself, at least I know what I'm getting.
I haven't heard back from anyone, so I figured you guys are busy. ;D
#1--What I need to know, is if I can use 2x10 or 2x12 joists with the 4x8 PT beams, or should I upgrade to 4x12 beams(which HD has in stock). I'm building the 14x24 house plan.
#2--In addition, if I go with the 4x12 beams, would it be better to go with an additonal pier(7 per side, 4' OC), so the 12 footers will meet over a pier, or can I just go with(5 per side 6' OC), again with the seam meeting over a pier for the 24 foot length? With either of these scenario's, the piers will be brought out to the ends, instead of having a 2 foot overhang on either end.
Thanks in advance for your help. :)
I have found lumber from SBS to pretty good with one caveat: they dont order much lumber between the end of Sept and April, so the stuff they send out is what everyone else picked over during the summer.
Quote from: akdreamin on August 08, 2008, 07:57:33 PM
I have found lumber from SBS to pretty good with one caveat: they dont order much lumber between the end of Sept and April, so the stuff they send out is what everyone else picked over during the summer.
Thanks for that heads up, I'll keep that in mind.
Nice country and scenery.
Quote from: glenn kangiser on August 08, 2008, 09:57:26 PM
Nice country and scenery.
Any answers to my questions Glenn? d*
Sorry - been busy and rushed through this - missing the questions.
Going larger is generally never a problem, and I don't see that it is adding a significant amount of weight. Note that I'm not an architect - just a contractor - and mostly steel for me, but I still see that as a safe answer.
If the plans say a 4x8 will suffice I don't see an need to increase the size of the beam as the footings are still the same and you are not increasing the load that much. Just a bit more dead load.
Adding a pier would be fine if it works out better for you. No doubt it would increase support for everything.
A late response... better late than never, someone once said. :)
No problem going up on the beam size. You probably don't need to add piers though. In fact you could reduce the number of piers, depending on the ability of the soil to bear additional weight. (Fewer piers = more weight on each.)
My evolution of the 14 x 24 Little House plan uses two built up 6 x 10 beams with piers on 7 foot centers. By building the beams from 2X10's I have staggered the ends over posts. This did mean a slight amount of waste, but not much, all things considered. The pieces were also easier to handle which for this solo 62+ builder is important.
I selected 2x10 material for joists for increased floor insulation. 2x12 could be used too. The larger joists simply make the structure a little taller.
I have a one foot overhang at each end (beam over last pier).
Hey fellow Alaskan! I live in Anchorage but am nearing "drying in" stage of a 1 1/2 story in Willow (mile 91). I used sonotubes set at 4' with "bigfoot" footing forms-----makes a simple monolithic pour and is very common at cabin sites here. Water lines for well are buried at 10'. If you are putting in a septic system, be sure and get it "certified" by an engineer or other authorized installer. If you don't you won't be able to get financing and it will make it difficult for a buyer if you ever try to sell it. Certification will cost about $500. Sounds like you must be up around the Knik or Matanuska Rivers----perhaps the Butte?
Glenn and Don, thanks for your responses, I think I know what I'll be doing this week. ;D
Quote from: rwanders on August 09, 2008, 01:05:22 AM
Hey fellow Alaskan! I live in Anchorage but am nearing "drying in" stage of a 1 1/2 story in Willow (mile 91). I used sonotubes set at 4' with "bigfoot" footing forms-----makes a simple monolithic pour and is very common at cabin sites here. Water lines for well are buried at 10'. If you are putting in a septic system, be sure and get it "certified" by an engineer or other authorized installer. If you don't you won't be able to get financing and it will make it difficult for a buyer if you ever try to sell it. Certification will cost about $500. Sounds like you must be up around the Knik or Matanuska Rivers----perhaps the Butte?
Back at ya from this fellow Alaskan! Yup, I'm down near the Knik River in renegade land. :) I've seen the bigfoot molds, and haven't made a definite decision to go with regular 8" sonotubes poured on a wider packed gravel and concrete base, or go with the bigfoot forms(haven't priced them out yet). What size did you end up going with? I believe there a couple different sizes. Since we're talking about them, do you remember how much you paid for them? Tied in with rebar I'm assuming?
Septic and well won't go in, until next spring, after "break up". I'm building out of pocket, so financing won't be a problem, but the septic will be certified for the reason you stated.
We used 10" tubes----6' long to allow 4' burial with 2' above ground.I needed to leave enough clearance for plumbing, etc under house and also enough room to let me squeeze in to insulate the floor. Actually contracted for the foundation work---cost me right at $200 per pier including excavation, forms, rebar, concrete and beam brackets. sounds like you have access to heavy equipment so you may be able to do much or all yourself. You should consider some sort of footer under the sonotubes though----no matter how well you pack gravel, the tubes will only have their bottom area as bearing surfaces. The bigfoots---(other brands are available too) is definitely the most labor efficient way to provide a footer along with the sonotubes.
Quote from: rwanders on August 09, 2008, 01:58:31 PM
We used 10" tubes----6' long to allow 4' burial with 2' above ground.I needed to leave enough clearance for plumbing, etc under house and also enough room to let me squeeze in to insulate the floor. Actually contracted for the foundation work---cost me right at $200 per pier including excavation, forms, rebar, concrete and beam brackets. sounds like you have access to heavy equipment so you may be able to do much or all yourself. You should consider some sort of footer under the sonotubes though----no matter how well you pack gravel, the tubes will only have their bottom area as bearing surfaces. The bigfoots---(other brands are available too) is definitely the most labor efficient way to provide a footer along with the sonotubes.
I know you have different soil up there in Willow. I've got great gravel down at 4 feet and below. I plan on mining it out with the backhoe from another part of the property, dig down to good gravel, and add another 12"+ on top of that. That will enable me to have a minimum of 24"+ of gravel base packed down for the footer, with rebar driven into that, and the sonotubes placed 3' in the ground, and 1' foot out.
I did check out the bigfoots today at SBS, but after more thought and talking to friend with a cabin. I should be good with what I have planned for the size cabin I'm going with. Thanks for the tip, I plan on using it for building a bigger structure, once I'm set up on the property. [cool]
Probably a pretty good plan. If your soil is non-expansive and/or well drained it will almost surely never frost heave. My cabin is larger---24x24 with a double decked 10x24 covered porch. Twelve foot walls and a 10x24 loft with 12/12 pitch roof. When I drew my plans I didn't realize how tall it would be---the peak of the roof is almost 29 feet off the ground. The roof is 36' long and the wife still thinks I should have made it 6' longer. Finishing the ceiling (T&G pine) and sheet rocking my front gable end (24' tall) is going to be "interesting". Good Luck! Designing and building something that may well be there and in use for generations is very satisfying!
Quote from: rwanders on August 10, 2008, 02:06:53 AM
Probably a pretty good plan. If your soil is non-expansive and/or well drained it will almost surely never frost heave. My cabin is larger---24x24 with a double decked 10x24 covered porch. Twelve foot walls and a 10x24 loft with 12/12 pitch roof. When I drew my plans I didn't realize how tall it would be---the peak of the roof is almost 29 feet off the ground. The roof is 36' long and the wife still thinks I should have made it 6' longer. Finishing the ceiling (T&G pine) and sheet rocking my front gable end (24' tall) is going to be "interesting". Good Luck! Designing and building something that may well be there and in use for generations is very satisfying!
29 feet, holy crap! [shocked] Is this just a weekend cabin, or are you moving out of Los Anchorage? ;D Have fun with the ceiling, that's what I'm planning on as well, but yours looks like it will be more "fun", than mine.
29 feet was slight misprint---really only about 27 1/2. Will just be weekend place for now but may morph into several months a year in the not too distant future. Total heated footage will be a little over 800 plus the lower and upper covered porches will add 240' each. I lived in Valdez for 9 years and learned to appreciate covered deck/porches!
Quote from: rwanders on August 11, 2008, 06:27:44 PM
29 feet was slight misprint---really only about 27 1/2. Will just be weekend place for now but may morph into several months a year in the not too distant future. Total heated footage will be a little over 800 plus the lower and upper covered porches will add 240' each. I lived in Valdez for 9 years and learned to appreciate covered deck/porches!
Sounds like a sweet place. I hear stories about how much snow falls down there, as well as Thompson Pass which I've been through and seen the markers on the side of the road for the plow trucks. They've got to be at least 15 feet high.
Just wanted to bring this back up to the top, and ask a question. Got all the gravel work done last weekend, but still need to set the sonotubes and pour concrete. This got me to thinking. I want to expand the Little House Plan to 16x24, instead of the 14x24 plan.
I've already planned on 10 piers, 6' on center for the 24 foot(4x12 beams). What I want to know, is how far apart to set the concrete piers? The plans call for 9' 8" OC for the 14 foot spans, but since I plan on 16 foot wide, how far apart would be reasonable to set the piers? I plan on using either 2x10 or 2x12 joists, for more insulation and support, so I was figuring that 10' OC(3 foot overhang on each end) would be ok, or would it be better to maintain the 2 foot overhang on each end(2' 2" in the plans), and set the piers at 12' OC?
Let me know any and all thoughts, my parents and nephew leave tomorrow night for their trip back to the lower 48, and I need to get cracking before winter comes. d* Thanks.
I'm about out of time now , but when you change width things change to a different bulding - length is not a problem -- all I can suggest is to check out the changes Don made as he did similar. Here's a link.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.0
I wouldn't change the cantilever without checking what will work for sure.
Please note my cabin at 16 ft (15 ft 9 inches actually) is a single story with NO loft. That would make a bit of a difference in the loads coming down on the side walls. The side walls carry all the roof load; gable ends do not unless there is a ridge BEAM instead of a ridge BOARD, and then the gable end design is different.
My support beams are spaced so there is a one foot overhang as measured at the outside edge of the beams. The floor joists are 2x10 #2 Hem-Fir on 16" centers, and sit on top od the support beams; 3/4" OSB T&G decking.
Walking, jumping on the floor inside produces no discernible bounce. :)
Thanks for the response Don. I see what you are saying with the beams, but you didn't mention how much overhang you have with the joists. The beams I'll be placing will rest on the piers on each end, with no overhang. What I'm trying to determine, is how much overhang for the joists sitting on the beams. The original plans call for 9' 8" OC for the piers, with 2' 2" overhang with 14' joists. With 16' joists, is it acceptable to have the same overhang, considering I'll be using 2x10 or 2x12 joists, instead of 2x6 or 2x8?
I'm going to have to take the time and reread your thread to see exactly what you did when I have some more time, but any help would be appreciated. :)
I'm sorry, I thought I had made that clear. :( My joists overhang the outside edge of the beam by about 12 inches, or in other words it's about 12 - 13 inches from the outside edge of the beam to the outside edge of the rim joist. When comparing remember that my beams are a true 6 inches wide.
If you have purchased the plans from John you can post the question under the Plans Support banner and John will do his best to provide timely advice.
Quote from: MountainDon on August 27, 2008, 04:56:28 PM
I'm sorry, I thought I has made that clear. :(
Thanks Don, I went back and reread your thread, just wanted to know if this quote was some new style of writing. ;D
I think and talk better than I type. d*
My fingers often type things I don't tell them to. [crz]
I thought it was some cryptic code that only moderators and administrators use. [slap]
Shhh - we're very secretive.... [crz]