(another) Eastern Washington little building started

[OlJarhead]

Aw man....I need to find out where that fishing is!  But of course, I need to leave the Canoe on the shore and get cracking on my roof!

This weekend we plan to nail off the rest of the roof sheeting (and install missing H clips) and felt.  We might (I hope) get the gabled end trim in and the eve trim in so at least will have a start on the roofing.

[JavaMan]

Hello Yonderosa! From another up there in OK 

My place is over west of 97 and north of 20.  And yes, I head over from the wet side, too.  I'm in Kitsap tho, not up near all you folk from Skagit. (was up there this weekend for Tulips, and it was pretty up that way, too) I'd love to live closer to my property.

I am hoping to begin building this year myself. Had the place (named it Rock Of Ages Ranch) for about 2 1/2 years now - 40 acres at 3900-4400 feet.  I think it's high time to start building the first shed there.  It's been a bit tough in this economy, but I've managed to round up some side work (a small gig) that I will be able to skim some off of to put into the building fund.

Your place is looking great! I wish I was that far along 

How were the inspections? I think the first shed I build will be under the size limit to have to be permitted, but the next one will be a full fledged cabin... and I'm wondering how close they inspect, etc...

Love the pics and will look forward to more!

[Yonderosa]

Java,
The inspector in my area is a good guy.  Everything went smoothly and I asked them what it was they wanted to see prior to the next inspection.  Cleared up any ambiguities up front and they were very helpful.  If I recall correctly anything under 120 sf doesn't require a building permit,  Anything over, does...   I was hoping for 200 sf, which is the limit in my county.

Jar dude, Looking forward to the progress pictures.  Any Turkeys up your way?  Season starts this week...

[OlJarhead]

Java,
The inspector in my area is a good guy.  Everything went smoothly and I asked them what it was they wanted to see prior to the next inspection.  Cleared up any ambiguities up front and they were very helpful.  If I recall correctly anything under 120 sf doesn't require a building permit,  Anything over, does...   I was hoping for 200 sf, which is the limit in my county.

Jar dude, Looking forward to the progress pictures.  Any Turkeys up your way?  Season starts this week...

Saw a couple dozen Turkey's but no Turkey hunting in Okanogan County I beleive.   Otherwise I'd be there with my 870 -- oh wait, I will be there   Just not shooting Turkey's I'm told

[OlJarhead]

Wait!  Wait!  I just re-read the regs and I don't see ANY reference to not hunting Turkey's in the Okanogan!  WHooHoo!

There were about 2 dozen around our place this winter...so um...maybe I better grab a tag and bring the 870 Super Mag along with some #4 fast lead!

[JavaMan]

supposedly there are Turkeys up on my place, too - but I've never seen them, nor heard them.  I wish I would - I'd love to get one to take home - altho Beautiful would make me pluck it myself 

[MountainDon]

Lots of turkeys around our northern NM mountains. The season starts Thursday here. I'll have to miss it though.

[Redoverfarm]

Had six beside the house this morning. If they wouldn't have seen me I could have probably hit them with a rock.   I think the Hens have already split up from the gobblers since they have started their annual calling in the mornings.  Our Spring gobbler season comes in the last of the month here.

[JavaMan]

Java,
The inspector in my area is a good guy.  Everything went smoothly and I asked them what it was they wanted to see prior to the next inspection.  Cleared up any ambiguities up front and they were very helpful.  If I recall correctly anything under 120 sf doesn't require a building permit,  Anything over, does...   I was hoping for 200 sf, which is the limit in my county.

Jar dude, Looking forward to the progress pictures.  Any Turkeys up your way?  Season starts this week...

Yonderosa,  I apologize in advance for what has turned into a long, ordinance quoting ramble, but I am curious to where in the Okanogan Building code the 120 sq ft limit is imposed?

This is because I was just reading the Okanogan Building Ordanance (Ordanance 2005-1 (Building and Related Codes) Adopted 3/8/05) and could not find any restriction of the size of a building to less than what the  ICC codes state.  It reads, in part:"The County of Okanogan hereby adopts the following codes as amended by the Washington State Building Code Council pursuant to RCW 19.27.074 ...".  Later on in the ordinance it states that, "Section C - In conformity with the provisions of the State Building Code, the following resolutions and ordinances are hereby repealed:

Okanogan County Ordinance No. 96-2 as amended by Okanogan County Ordinace No. 97-8 (Building and Related Codes)

In addition, all other resolutions and ordinances enacted prior to the effective date of this ordinance, or parts thereof which are in conflict with or inconsistent with this Ordinance are hereby repealed"

The next section goes on to state that "except as exempted in the international Building Code..." you must obtain a permit - isn't it in the IBC that the 200sq ft limit is?

Of course, I haven't read all of the IBC, so I could very well be mistaken, and Okanogan County may have adopted the limitation since 2005 (which is most likely), but they really need to put this info up on the website!

Aside from that, I, too have found the people at the county to be easy to work with (so far), although I haven't actually begun my project(s) yet  

[eddiescabin]

We have more turkeys than ever before!  They have had some effects, generally in April we will have massive amounts of field spiders walking everywhere, they are large and hairy, some would call them tarantulas...I'm thinking the turkeys have decimated their population! Turkeys here are not so good for eating. 

[Yonderosa]

Java,
Before I started mine I gave the county a call.  I had a 196 sf version of the plan I built but was told that 120 was the limit for that type of structure without a building permit - with a few exceptions for farm buildings etc.

Since I was going to have to pay for a permit anyway I decided to up the square footage.  The planning and health departments required some fees too if I recall correctly.  I figured it was better to tell them what it was I wanted to do and just pay the ransoms required.

[JavaMan]

Yonderosa,

Yeah, I know they want the health dept and the planning dept involved.  They are "supposed" to be involved even when building a farm building un-permitted.  I was just hoping there was something to reference that said something like "except that any other unpermitted building shall be no larger than 120 feet" or whatever.

I'm still looking for it!  If I find it, I'll let you know!

[OlJarhead]

Java,
The inspector in my area is a good guy.  Everything went smoothly and I asked them what it was they wanted to see prior to the next inspection.  Cleared up any ambiguities up front and they were very helpful.  If I recall correctly anything under 120 sf doesn't require a building permit,  Anything over, does...   I was hoping for 200 sf, which is the limit in my county.

Jar dude, Looking forward to the progress pictures.  Any Turkeys up your way?  Season starts this week...

Yonderosa,  I apologize in advance for what has turned into a long, ordinance quoting ramble, but I am curious to where in the Okanogan Building code the 120 sq ft limit is imposed?

This is because I was just reading the Okanogan Building Ordanance (Ordanance 2005-1 (Building and Related Codes) Adopted 3/8/05) and could not find any restriction of the size of a building to less than what the  ICC codes state.  It reads, in part:"The County of Okanogan hereby adopts the following codes as amended by the Washington State Building Code Council pursuant to RCW 19.27.074 ...".  Later on in the ordinance it states that, "Section C - In conformity with the provisions of the State Building Code, the following resolutions and ordinances are hereby repealed:

Okanogan County Ordinance No. 96-2 as amended by Okanogan County Ordinace No. 97-8 (Building and Related Codes)

In addition, all other resolutions and ordinances enacted prior to the effective date of this ordinance, or parts thereof which are in conflict with or inconsistent with this Ordinance are hereby repealed"

The next section goes on to state that "except as exempted in the international Building Code..." you must obtain a permit - isn't it in the IBC that the 200sq ft limit is?

Of course, I haven't read all of the IBC, so I could very well be mistaken, and Okanogan County may have adopted the limitation since 2005 (which is most likely), but they really need to put this info up on the website!

Aside from that, I, too have found the people at the county to be easy to work with (so far), although I haven't actually begun my project(s) yet  

I need to look for Considerations post about the IBC but in the IBC there is a clause that states something akin to:  no building permit is required for a building under 400 square feet provided it isn't the single family dwelling -- or maybe that was 'primary single family dwelling -- and then it gives examples.

I'll check that and see where it is but again it was considerations that posted it in her cabin topic -- I've been loosely using that as my justification for not permitting since my building is 336 square feet and decidedly NOT our primary residence or a single family one etc etc and a cabin is essentially a 'play house' after all

[OlJarhead]

OK here goes:

UTILITY AND MISCELLANEOUS GROUP U
Buildings and structures of an accessory character and miscellaneous structures not classified in
any specific occupancy shall be constructed, equipped and maintained to conform to the
requirements of this code commensurate with the fire and life hazard incidental to their
occupancy. Group U shall include, but not be limited to, the following:
§ Agricultural buildings § Livestock shelters
§ Aircraft hangars § Private garages
§ Barns § Retaining walls
§ Carports § Sheds
§ Fences more than 6 feet high § Stables
§ Grain silos § Tanks
§ Greenhouses § Towers

So clearly a cabin isn't one of those examples except that you could call it a shed perhaps or a Private Garage (hey my Motorcycle can fit through the door -- even though I don't have one) but for the pruposes of argument I'm contending that I am building an agricultural building or a private garage that I just happen to have converted into a play house

I'm stretching credulity with the codes, but I'm not alone in that out here.

"21.01.045 Exemptions.

Section 105.2 of the International Building Code (IBC) as published by the International Code Council regarding exemptions from permit requirements shall be amended to read as follows:

1. One-story detached accessory buildings used as tool and storage sheds, playhouses, and similar uses and classified as U Occupancies, provided that such buildings are for private use only and are accessory to single family dwellings and provided the floor area does not exceed 400 square feet. Eaves may project not more than 24 inches beyond the wall line.

.......but then:

"Unless otherwise exempted, separate plumbing, electrical, and mechanical permits will be required for the above exempted items."

So, I'm pushing it. There is no single family dwelling for the cabin to be "accessory to". 

I'd argue that the 5th wheel is the Single family dwelling Heck I'll argue that my camper and tent trailer are but just becuase I will argue doesn't mean I'm right.

Luckily in my neck of the woods they aren't as likely to bother me -- so tell me all my neighbors -- other then to raise my taxes.

[OlJarhead]

I should also note that my single family dwelling is 160 miles south of my cabin but that clearly means it isn't my single family dwelling and of course the cabin is only for private use

[JavaMan]

I suppose it could be looked upon as accessory to the primary dwelling ... you aren't using it AS the primary dwelling.  Or it's a play house in the back yard - which just happens to be 160 miles north 

[OlJarhead]

I suppose it could be looked upon as accessory to the primary dwelling ... you aren't using it AS the primary dwelling.  Or it's a play house in the back yard - which just happens to be 160 miles north 

[Yonderosa]

When I submitted my plans the criteria seemed to focus on plumbing and/or a heat source.  If either was incorporated into the building, it changed how they categorize it.

[JavaMan]

When I submitted my plans the criteria seemed to focus on plumbing and/or a heat source.  If either was incorporated into the building, it changed how they categorize it.

Oh, yeah, I was talking with them a year ago or so, and the minute you have "permanent heat" or pressure water, you need to have all sorts of other things, and it changes the way they look at it considerably!

[Yonderosa]

Just back from another visit.  I even had some time and some of the materials I needed to do some of the work I've been wanting to do.





The wall finish material is rough sawn Douglas Fir - "random" widths and thicknesses (wider below) trying for a rustic appearance.  On a visit to Wind's place he showed me a bandsaw technique that I'll try that should allow me to go wider than my table saw (<6") will do.

I even managed to get some work on the exterior done

[SkagitDrifter]

Where you been Boy?

Glad to see you back at it- your place looks great, I love the DF paneling.  Nice R&R shingles.
It looks like you pretty much have it wrapped up- any plans for an out building, guest cottage, maids quarters, etc.?
Tell me more about the new band saw technique.

SD

[John Raabe]

Yonderosa:

Very handsome project. Nice details!

[Yonderosa]

Skagit, still a ways to go but it does feel like we're over the hump.  The boss has some good ideas and knows how to spur the progress along.  Keeping her happy is the key to a "more harmonious outcome" or something like that.  Could be that after 30 years I'm just well trained too.

I've been playing with a few other designs.  We will need a well-house in the near future and might turn that into a multipurpose structure.  Trying not to get too far ahead of myself until locations and what the county says what I can and need to do.

Also I have a few more cabinets to haul over.  The weather has not cooperated so far but I expect that'll change soon.  I just hope I have the time and space when it does - we already look like the Beverly Hillbillys when we head over.

Are you seeing any Bears over at your place? 

It seems like there are more out and about this year.  Had some neighbors get stuck outside their cabin while a Bear decided to camp out their porch.  Pretty much everyone with a barbeque or a bird feeder has been raided.  Having backpacked extensively we're careful with our food and garbage - hopefully our luck will hold and we can continue to enjoy the Bears from a distance.

[SkagitDrifter]

Plenty of bear sign around but I have not seen any with my own eyes yet this year.

We have been seeing these guys around ...




Our area is not really known for elk but these guys seem to like it- they have been hanging around for the last couple of months.

[Yonderosa]

VERY cool! My sister's place is up near Bonaparte and they've been seeing more Elk lately too    

I hope they decide to show up in our neighborhood too.  Bugling Elk in September is one of my favorite sounds, which reminds me, I need a new rest for my Bow... 

I've heard that Skagit herd is causing some problems for the locals and the game dept.  Maybe they could truck a few over my way.