At the height of the real estate fiasco, I purchased this shy 12 acre piece on the west slope of the Cascades, east of Seattle. Even as I was doing all the feasibility work, I knew the market was kind of dicey, and I factored in the possibility of a decline in value & told myself I'd be ok with it. Affordable acreage (that's relative) around here is still scarce to this day. It only has about 1 acre in the SE corner that's usable for building, and a large part of the rest is steep slope, about 40% or 22+ degrees. I'm 25 miles east of the city, and I get 25 more inches of annual rainfall! Seattle gets around 35" annually, so yes, it does get wet here. Those numbers will probably boggle the minds of the CP desert dwellers. For those w/a forestry interest, my site index for Douglas Fir is around 125, meaning that in 50 years, a Doug Fir will grow about 125'. Trees really like water and the long, sunny summer days we get. The property was mostly logged in 1998, but they left a nice perimeter buffer, plus a small area of mature trees in the SE corner.
The plan is to build a 12' x 12' building that will be used to store trail building tools and to escape to for the occasional overnight. Since I can have 200 square feet (aerial footprint) without getting a building permit. [scared] Don't worry, I will be building this thing sturdy, as there is a 70# design snow load for the area. Even though we don't usually have snow on the ground there all winter, when it snows, it can be heavy!
Access is from the east to the SE corner on a 650' easement. There is about an acre that's mostly level in the SE corner of my lot. The road below to the W/NW is over 200' below the building pad area, so I will be over 650' from any road. I like my space ;D
Got topography?
(https://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/wagginwagon/Fall%20City/FallCityTopo.jpg)
Aerial view:
(https://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/wagginwagon/Fall%20City/FallCityAerialView-1.jpg)
Level area in SE corner:
(https://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/wagginwagon/Fall%20City/FallCityAerialViewTopoSEZoom.jpg)
To help me in the process, I've got one of these: '92 W250 Club Cab w/5.9 Cummins, 5-speed...
(https://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/wagginwagon/Vehicles/Dodge3smaller.jpg)
...and half of one of these:
(https://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/wagginwagon/Funny%20Stuff/Brain1.png)
What else do I need?
Halfway in on the 650' easement, I pass a neighbor's barn. The treeline straight ahead is the SE corner. BTW, I never should have sold the '90 245 Volvo in the picture! d* These folks have almost 100 acres overall, and they did a (TDR Transfer of Development Rights), so there will only be the potential for one house anywhere near my SE corner; that's it!
(https://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/wagginwagon/Fall%20City/FallCityEasement7.jpg)
Entering property at SE corner:
(https://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/wagginwagon/Fall%20City/FallCityEntry.jpg)
Clearing looking east (see entry road on right):
(https://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/wagginwagon/Fall%20City/FallCityClearingE.jpg)
View from top to SW. I've already lost this view to tree growth, but I will be able to do some trimming under my forest plan. On clear days, I can actually see the Olympic Mountains from here!
(https://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/wagginwagon/Fall%20City/FallCityLightView2.jpg)
Next update will be the materials that I've rounded up so far, then I'll start asking a million questions to guide the design of the cabin shed. So far I'm on the fence between a gable roof and a shed roof. Once I put it on paper, I'll get an idea of the spaces and proportions.
I'm green with envy. Lived on Queen Anne hill in Seattle back when I was going to school. I've lived in a bunch of places, but I'd be hard pressed to think of a climate better suited for my temperament generally. Relocated to Louisiana from there for work. Talk about culture shock!
Looking forward to hearing more about your project. Great area to be in. Good luck!
And goodnight.
Parks
Nice land. As my septic engineer told us about our equally steep property.
"you get more surface area for less total taxes"
I felt this was insightful. :)
Nice waggin. Is that the path in thru the trees at the right side of the second image, the image after the Volvo?
I'm a Red Green fan too!
Thanks for the kind words. It is a great area, and I hope to live out there one day. After living in the 'burbs pretty much all my life, the thought of some actual space is exciting. Even just going out to cut some trails or hang out is amazingly peaceful. My existing house is on the market, but selling anything other than entry level houses to 1st time homebuyers is a tough go these days. For now, I'm planning on the 12' x 12' cabin shed built on a skid foundation. I'm going to build it stout, so it will be able to handle being dragged across uneven ground at some point. Since I'm working with a tight building area, undoubtedly I'll have to be able to relocate my initial building at some point for driveway, house, shop, or utilities.
Raindog: Even growing up in New England, I fell in love w/the Pacific NW. Now I'm green with moss ;D
Speedfunk: Funny, I saw a copy of the orthographic(?) map of my parcel; it looked a lot fatter on that map. Speaking of septic, I'm either going to have to have one of the pressure distribution systems up top, or run about 450' downhill if I can find better soils for the drainfield. Ughhh! Since it's mostly unusable acreage, I put about 80% of the land into a current use program. Once I finish my forest plan, it will cut out about 75% off the land portion of my tax bill.
MountainDon: Yup, if you follow it to the right (NW) you end up in the clearing. In the following picture, you are seeing the other end of the entry road/trail from the clearing. It's on the right side of the picture.
Thank you for the help and advice on photo editing; that was a huge time saver to do it as you recommended. I just changed the others. Keep your stick on the ice.
Looks like home to me... :D
Should be a great project.
Nice property. I like steep hills - good for dugouts.
Good Dodge there too. I had a 92 w/a Cummins - Gave it to my old buddy when I got my 99
Talked to a guy with the NEW 4500 Dodge cab and chassis. He is not a happy camper with the new smog stuff. Stick with the old ones.
Great to see another "local" project underway. Sounds like you've taken the Forest Stewardship program - I just got recently got my sign :)
As for your design I would recommend doing a gable as it makes incorporating a loft easy. That extra room is very nice when the space is limited. Best of luck! Looking forward to watching the progress.
Quote from: glenn kangiser on October 24, 2009, 10:28:11 PM
Nice property. I like steep hills - good for dugouts.
Good Dodge there too. I had a 92 w/a Cummins - Gave it to my old buddy when I got my 99
Talked to a guy with the NEW 4500 Dodge cab and chassis. He is not a happy camper with the new smog stuff. Stick with the old ones.
Hmmm, a view platform on the side of a hill camouflaging the dugout underneath. mwah-ha-ha-ha-ha! Lots of ideas for how to do that and the possibilities. I'm already joking with several of my friends about looking for a manual typewriter on Craigslist.
I'm a big believer in the KISS theory when it comes to a vehicle that's going to see utility use, and the older 12v Cummins engines sure fit that bill. It only has about 140k on it, so it's just a baby. Sure, you can get a ton more comfort & power out of the newer ones, but I don't want to be beholden to super-expensive diagnostic equipment available only at the dealer (imagine that!) for every little complex system issue that pops up. Not that I can do much w/even my 12v, but at least there are a lot of folks out there that CAN work on it. I've done brakes, replaced rear ends, water pumps, and rebuilt 2bbl carburetors, but when I look under the hood of my Dodge, it's still at the level of yup, there's the engine and the turbo, wonder what the rest of that stuff is ??? Oh yeah, there's the 710! One of these days, I'll learn where the Fetzer valve is and how to replace those muffler bearings :)
Quote from: Yonderosa on October 26, 2009, 10:25:31 AM
Great to see another "local" project underway. Sounds like you've taken the Forest Stewardship program - I just got recently got my sign :)
As for your design I would recommend doing a gable as it makes incorporating a loft easy. That extra room is very nice when the space is limited. Best of luck! Looking forward to watching the progress.
Ah, you recognized the forest stewardship lingo. Did you take the classes over here for your eastside property or for your wetside property? My forest plan isn't complete yet, but I did get most of my land into the PBRS (Public Benefit Rating System) classification for tax reduction starting next year. I worked with Kristi McClelland, the King County Forester, to help me navigate the process after taking some classes through the county and WSU Extension. Did you also take the 10-week class? That was fascinating, and I learned a lot of really valuable info. Kristi was and continues to be incredibly helpful.
After your saying you were local, I looked through your build thread. You did some really cool things with yours, and I compliment you on the incredible craftsmanship. The Murphy bed is a great idea for making use of limited space too. I was really gung-ho for a shed roof until I saw a couple of threads with similar sized cabins with gable roofs and lofts, so my plans are already changing.
200 sq ft aerial foot print? I have seen people turn that into 600 sq ft of living. Basement, 1st floor, 2nd floor, loft?
The big problem with that, from my perspective, is the amount of floor space lost to stairs. Ladders could be used, but not to code, nor to my own personal preference. Ladder only access also makes moving anything other than yourself in and out of the other levels something of a circus act. That's my opinion, others may have no problems, or YMMV. ;D
QuoteAh, you recognized the forest stewardship lingo. Did you take the classes over here for your eastside property or for your wetside property? My forest plan isn't complete yet, but I did get most of my land into the PBRS (Public Benefit Rating System) classification for tax reduction starting next year. I worked with Kristi McClelland, the King County Forester, to help me navigate the process after taking some classes through the county and WSU Extension. Did you also take the 10-week class? That was fascinating, and I learned a lot of really valuable info. Kristi was and continues to be incredibly helpful.
I did the classes on the Wet side and added the dry side field trips. I found it quite helpful too and have remained in contact with the foresters and the biologist. Great bunch of guys.
Using a pull down attic stair solves the space issues with stairs/ladders. The big advantage to the loft is the reduction of clutter making it a more useful multi-purpose (living, dining, kitchen, bedroom...) space.
Quote from: Yonderosa on October 27, 2009, 04:57:54 PM
Using a pull down attic stair solves the space issues with stairs/ladders.
I love our Memphis Folding Stairs access to the attic in our suburban home. :D It makes access to the storage attic above the garage much simpler as the ladder is always there.
It is a ladder even though they call it "stairs". It's less than 24 inches wide though and that makes moving anything large up or down a chore. I think they are wonderful for occasional access to a storage area, but not for a sleeping area. At least not for me. They work well for access in the up direction but won't do a thing for you if you want to go down to a basement. And if you are in the "up" area you can't close the stairs and get them out of the way in the lower area. So my personal opinion is they are great for storage access, but that's about all.
Time to get started! I still haven't completely made up my mind on shed vs. gable roof, but I will need to do that soon.
If I'm building something like Wendigo's 12'x12' w/loft ( http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=7712.0 ), what am I looking at requiring for dimensions on the skids for something not supported by piers? This thing will likely be moved at some point, so I need to have stout skids, have the floor joists well attached, and it will need to be stout enough to not rack & screw up windows/doors, etc. Has anyone else built a skid frame like this before? Another option is to get some steel beams for skids, but I see that as being more expensive & time consuming to cut angles on the ends, drill holes, attach plates, etc. The concept is to either put it on a gravel bed, or putting it on pier blocks of some sort. If I used pier blocks, my thought is to dig down about a foot, put some gravel in, then set/level the blocks. Am I thinking properly so far? Input on skid sizes/materials/fastening, etc. would be much appreciated.
So far, by looking at the above thread and the "Modern Manshed" thread, I'm thinking 12' long 2"x8" floor joists spanning 10' between skid centerlines. That provides a 1' (less 1/2 of skid width) overhang on each end of the joists. Decking will be 3/4" T&G plywood; walls will be 2"x4" studs, likely 8' long for gable roof & longer/taller if shed roof. Speaking of roofing, I picked up some heavy guage metal/simulated tile roofing. It was $200 for about 360 sq ft, plus I got a small battery powered portable toilet as part of the deal. Sorry, no picture of the toilet ;) That's more than enough roofing for the shed/cabin, plus a well house down the road.
(https://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/wagginwagon/Fall%20City/MetalTileRoofing.jpg)
Am I on the right track?
Howdy!
Let me know when you're looking west and I'll stand on top of my cabin and wave :)
Looks more than a bit steep in places, but it appears to have some flatter areas on top, which should translate into great views.
I would investigate the exact rules and regulations for your sub-200 square feet structure, but there are probably limits on average or total wall height. The state's/county's way of keeping you from building a loft in a structure without a permit. That said, why stop at 12x12=144 square feet when you could go for 11x16=196 square feet, or my cabin size, 14x14=196 square feet. Not much harder or more expensive to build it a tiny bit larger, but lots more room inside!
I build my outhouse/shed (4'x8') on skids and plan on building a larger 8'x12' or 12'x12' storage shed next summer, also on skids. One of the things I learned building my log cabin is the power of rolly things.
Rollers made of small trees or metal pipe move things MUCH!!! better than any other method. Those pyramid builders had it figured out 4000 years ago, and if you have to do it today or next year, skids plus rollers work many-many-many times better than skids alone. My wife and I moved this stack of logs once (downhill), and my son and I moved it a second time back uphill. I moved about half of them back downhill a third time to build my cabin. It would not have happened without rollers or wheels. Skids+rollers will be much easier that skids alone, and all you have to do is cut down some alders or small Doug-fir to make rollers... I like using Harbor Freight chain hoists to help move things around as well, either up-and-down or horizontally. Much better than cheap come-alongs. I also built a log/timber cart with 26" bicycle wheels which will easily move 500+ pounds. It saved our backs and project many times over.
(https://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/Pine_Cone/IMG_1416-1.jpg)
Our cabin project was done with a minimal use of big powerful machines. No backhoe, no Bobcat's, no tractors. I did hire a logger with a self-loading truck to get my logs delivered, and I did hire a friend with a self-loading dump truck to get rid of a few tons of stumps left by the previous owner. Other than that I hired a stump grinder and a trencher from our local rent-a-tool place and the rest was done pretty much by me and my (play-the-impressive-heroine-music) wife. She was a trooper and I could not have done it without her!
If you don't already have a chainsaw, buy a Husky or a Stihl with a 18"+ bar and call it good. You really will need it, many times over. I have a Husky 359 and it has worked well!
Good luck with your project. If you want to see what I have done in person just drop me a note and I'll be happy to show you around my place in Jefferson Co.
Good find on the roofing. That's one thing that I haven't found a deal on yet.
Pine Cone:
I have been reading your thread enthusiastically since you began posting and wondered where you were located. I think at some point you mentioned Chimicum? I absolutely love what you've done with your place and may take you up on the offer of a tour sometime. Are you usually up there on weekends only or sometimes during the week? A buddy of mine lives in Kingston & is building a house there, so I do get over to that side of the pond from time to time.
I chose 12'x12' for several reasons. The county literature online says 200 square feet max but doesn't define how it's calculated. When I asked, the folks that regulate said that it was aerial footprint. Since I like roof overhangs, 12'x12' with a 1' overhang keeps me just under the limit. Someday I may build a real house there, and I want to stay on everybody's good side, at least until everything is signed off anyway ;D This size is also manageable with limited help and works well with standard building material multiples.
Thanks for the roller tips! Last year I bought a More Power Puller: http://www.wyeth-scott.com/
Now that's a real come-along! I tend not to trust Harbor Freight stuff when my life and/or eyesight is on the line. I would use their chain hoist though. The bike wheel cart is another tip I like.
Poppy:
I think that's the ONLY thing you haven't found a good deal on yet! Your resourcefulness always impresses me.
I'm at my cabin mostly on the weekends, but I work in Poulsbo, not too far from Kingston, and it is only about a 40 minute drive (each way) from there. Let me know when you want to go and we'll work something out. If the weather is dry I will often take off an afternoon to work on cabin projects that prefer dry weather.
That's one stout-looking come-a-long!
Looks like fun, Waggin! There sure are a lot of us Washingtonians here. that's a great piece of property and looks like you'll get a whole lot of privacy for the size.
Before you settle on the 12X12 dimension, I would verify the "aerial view" measurement method. Simply because one inspector interprets the reg that way doesn't necessarily make it so.
Edited to add: Waggin, if you don't mind, where is your land? Although I'm in Kent now I lived in North Bend for several years. I'm still looking for my little piece of heaven.
Pritch:
My place is right over by Snoqualmie Falls, but I live in Federal Way currently. North Bend is a great area; I bet you miss it compared to Kent.
Another reason I want to do the 12'x12' is ease of construction with (mostly) one person and not getting crazy with materials. If I end up building a real house out there, it's going to have a large shop, so extra buildings will be extra stuff that has to be maintained. I'll print my page from the county site again, but IIRC, the 200 square feet wasn't defined. It was in person that one of the DDES folks gave me the "aerial footprint" qualification. If I choose to go larger, the website printout will be in my files to show in case of a dispute, trust me.
Where are you considering for your escape place?
Its funny. We had a large track house in a suburban development. It didn't feel like we were very rural. We sold that place and bought a townhouse in teh city, but sit over a protected wetland area by the river and it feels like we're out in the woods!
As far as where we're thinking, well, land isn't on the top of the priority list right now. We're working to become debt free and want to adopt. Then, hopefully some wooded property. Even though this state tends to tax everything that moves, and mandates transport of those things that don't; we love the lush woods and hot & cold running elk! Most property within a "weekendable" drive of Seattle is prohibitively expensive, so we may end up looking over toward Newprt, or over the border into northern Idaho. (This would be a really hard sell as my wife is a bear magnet, and is terrified of Griz!
Giving serious thought to steel I-beams for the skids now. There are some options on Craigslist locally that I'm going to call the sellers. At least one of them says they will cut, so maybe I can get them to cut angles on the ends for me. If I go this route, my thought is to drill holes along the top of the I-beam, and put a pressure treated 2x (whatever the flange width is) along the surface. Then the floor joists would be on top of that, running perpendicular. Sound reasonable?
Pritch: Hope your townhome stays high & dry. Are you in a danger area if they have to release water from the Howard Hanson dam?
Quote from: waggin on February 03, 2010, 11:15:48 PM
Pritch: Hope your townhome stays high & dry. Are you in a danger area if they have to release water from the Howard Hanson dam?
It looks like we're high enough to avoid flooding, but could still have to deal with sewer backup and disruption of water/power/etc. DW's work is on the valley floor so that could be interesting.
Any updates on your project? I'm very interested. I live in Seattle and am building a small cabin this spring near Lake Cushman and Hoodsport, WA.
This is what I'm going to build:
(http://www.pennypincherbarns.com/Portals/0/cabins/owlsclovercolor.jpg)
Very pretty! Is that a kit, or are you just showing it as an example of what you're building?
Not much happening right now; I'm doing a little material hunting for skids and trying to choose between gable & shed roofs. There are currently some 6x8 pressure treated beams on Craigslist, so if the price is right, it will be wood skids. If not, the fallback is some I-beams, which will require a little more work, but would really be stout, plus I'm guessing they will slide on the ground easier.
First thing is to finish up a few odds & ends on my existing house & get it back on the market. Tried to sell last year without doing everything, which was a mistake. I'm hoping to be starting on the project by March or April. In the mean time, lots of Craigslist hunting, questions, and designing will be taking place. I'm shooting for low-cost on this one, so Craigslist & free materials will be sought out as much as possible.
Yours is going to be a lot fancier than mine. I'm going for something along the lines of Wendigo's 12' x 12' or the 12' x 16' Modern Manshed. Are you going to start a build thread for yours?
Steel I-beams as skids? Won't that be a major corrosion issue?
Between the steel and the P/T lumber or the skid and the ground? With the ground, I'm would think the time frame for corrosion would be a really long time. Should it be a concern? If so, I can put gravel or something else underneath to avoid direct contact where it rests.
Hi It's kinda a kit but with no actual cuts pre made. It's from a WA company called Penny Pincher Barns. This one's called the Owl's Clover mini-cabin. The deal is they will give you the engineered plans to your specs (like snow load) and my exsisting aluminum windows left over from my house, then they source all the material from a lumber mill near me and have EVERYTHING delivered to your site. The price was right for us. Yes I will start a thread when things start happening. I just found an exterior door on Craiglist for $40 pre-hung, it's wood but it's an ok deal I guess.
About your skids.. How many times are you planning on moving it? I would think either PT wood or steel would be fine. Like you say, thick steel beams would a long time to rust away!
We have a shed that came with our property that's on skids sitting on pier blocks. It needs to be moved about 20 feet. I think I'm going to cut the nails that attacheh the pier brackets to the skids with a saws-all then either jack it up and put some small logs to roll it there or just hook it to my jeep and drag it.... Not sure if that is even possible but I'm sure the log rolling with work.
shed moving video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW-qxaypu98&feature=fvw
I like that plan a lot. A lot of style for the size, not to difficult to build.
I too like the style. Couple of thoughts tho...While I'm not opposed to the Steel beam/skids, I'm a little skittish about no real bond to hold your structure down other than weight. That structure has a relatively small footprint to height ratio, which is the opposite of most garden sheds that sit on skids. I think you've got to give some thought to at least earth anchors bolted or welded to the skids in the event of strong winds or even micro-bursts. As our weather patterns become more erratic, we seem to see more of these. A nice side benefit is that a rough terrain forklift might well be able to move or reposition this structure, and, if in the distant future, you decided to add a basement or fruit or storm cellar, it would be very possible to do with this foundation method.
Likewise on your garden shed, a 3 hour rental of a strong skidsteer with fork tines would move that shed likity split. A couple of years ago at the old railroad gravel pit where I'm building my cabin, an 80 yr old retired RR bridge-builder needed to move a storage shed on a slab. Over the summer he jacked it up, moving the shed and later the slab by rolling it on pipes. At one point, when he had the slab repositioned and the shed ready to place on the slab, I offered to lift it in place with a backhoe and a strap. He refused saying it would "ruin" the fun.
That old man has understanding of the physical laws of the universe that is perhaps better than that of many an engineer. Move away!
Last month's real estate sales may have been down 27% nationally, but for me, this month's sales were up 100%...in other words, I sold my house! Woohoo! The sense of relief is unbelievable. For now I'm renting a house halfway between my office and my land. Now that all of the remodeling and repairs for selling are done and the place is sold, it's time to get back into playing around on my property. I'll be somewhat busy getting unpacked and set up at the rental, but I'm once again scrounging Craigslist for shed/cabin supplies. As always, design will depend on the opportunity that materials I find present. Still going over the pros and cons of steel skids vs. pressure treated wood ones. Anyone have any additional thoughts?
Sometime in the next week or two I need to get out there and test my homebrew weed killer recipe using vinegar, salt, and dish soap. Has anyone ever tried that concoction? I haven't done any mowing on the access easement or driveway all year, and the grass and weeds have taken over. It's beyond capability of the mower now. I'm psyched to get out there some more!
Good for you on the sale of your home [cool] It looks like you have a real nice spot for your cabin and lots of good advice from the folks here. Good luck!
Finally! This week I actually put saw to wood and trimmed the ends of my (extreme overkill) 6"x12" PT skids. Hey, that's what came up on Craigslist. [noidea'
I've decided to notch 2" deep across the skids and lay the joists across/through the notches. The skids will be on 10' centers, so there will be a little overhang on the joist ends. This weekend, I bought the 2x8x12' boards for the floor joists. I went with doug fir for these, as it was recommended as being better than hemlock in moisture and pest resistance. Thought about pressure treated, but decided it wasn't necessary. In addition to an H1 clip at each joist/skid joint, I'm going to pre-drill and drive in two 60d x 8" nails at each joist/skid, from opposite sides at about a 45 deg angle from the top. The plan is for the skids to rest on gravel, and I'll incorporate some kind of vapor barrier. I also picked up 3/4" T&G plywood for the flooring this weekend. Had to buy that new, unfortunately. I've laid out the planned notch cuts on the skids, and if we get a break in the rain, I'm going to start cutting notches this week.
As of right now, I'm leaning toward a single pitch shed roof, but I'm not committed until I buy all the materials.
Glad to hear you've started putting saw to timber.
I think the notches are a good idea. I have also seen plans with X-bracing on skid-building plans.
http://bioengr.ag.utk.edu/extension/extpubs/Plans/6099.pdf (http://bioengr.ag.utk.edu/extension/extpubs/Plans/6099.pdf)
For my shed on skids I trimmed a bit off the lower corner with a 45 degree cut and also drilled one inch holes near the end of each skid. The thought was that I could put a small chain or cable though it for the eventual day I might want to move it using a piece of motorized equipment. Easier to do now before there is a building on top of them...
2015 completion date? :)
Quote from: Solar Burrito on November 02, 2010, 02:48:12 PM
2015 completion date? :)
Never put off until tomorrow what can be put off until the day after tomorrow. d*
Over the last couple of weeks, I finally got serious about some site prep...
Building site covered in alders:
(https://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/wagginwagon/100_0747.jpg)
One of two piles of saplings/logs:
(https://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/wagginwagon/100_0790.jpg)
Snow covered building site free of alders. Note two piles of alder sapling/logs in snow on right. (Hard to see one in background is pictured in prior photo.)
(https://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/wagginwagon/100_0929.jpg)
Alders aren't the only things that grow like weeds here. This is a 30'+ blackberry vine I pulled out of the trees!
(https://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/wagginwagon/100_0744.jpg)
Sunset/dusk picture from viewpoint partway down my hillside at an overlook point:
(https://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/wagginwagon/100_0806.jpg)
Had someone out with a small tractor/backhoe to do some work yesterday. Got way more done than anticipated, and I was out there burning until after 7pm in the dark last night after starting before 9am. Slept deeply last night! More pictures to follow once I can get out there in daylight.
Nice stacks of alder!
Now you need to get some tenon cutters and start making rustic furniture.
I have made some, but I find that the alder starts to rot pretty darn quick in this climate unless you store it somewhere off the ground and out of the weather.
You have enough for railings, some benches, a bed or three, and lots of chairs and stools. Just make sure it is dry before you start or you will find that all your joints will get loose. Don't ask me how I know ???
Pine Cone: I'll try to get some of those alders protected, as it would be cool to play around with making some stuff. I've got some really nicely shaped maples and cedars as well that I have my eye on for later. They are still growing, so I can harvest at any time. Your advice on bracing will be incorporated into the design as well...thanks!
Got some photos of the progress. First are the beams I'm using for the skids. The notches are roughly 2" deep, and the floor joists will cross them and have about 9" of overhang, since the skids are on 10' centers in my design. I'll also put in some 60d spikes in pre-drilled holes. Along with the bracing suggestions from Pine Cone, this thing should be fairly stout.
6" x 12" skids:
(https://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/wagginwagon/Fall%20City/FallCityBeam1.jpg)
Cleared are for cabin:
(https://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/wagginwagon/Fall%20City/FallCityClearingProject4.jpg)
Trenches for gravel where skids will rest (Note approval by inspector):
(https://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/wagginwagon/Fall%20City/FallCityClearingProject10.jpg)
Now I need some gravel to put in the trenches. Of course this requires some gravel for the driveway to allow the trucks to make it in to the site.
Don't know what your gravel plans are for the driveway, but if possible, use a road base of larger ballast rock, maybe 3-5" in size, then one or two layers of smaller rock on top of that. The large rock will keep the smaller rock from getting pushed into the soil too quickly.
Was planning on looking for some geotextile fabric first, then a layer of the large 3"+ base rock. I've read a bit about the geotextile fabric keeping the base rock from just being driven down into the soft soil. My plan was to just use it at the soft areas on the driveway, as doing the whole 800' of driveway might get a tad spendy, and parts of it are quite solid already. Any experience with geotextile fabric?
I don't have any personal experience with geotextiles, the last road I laid out was in 1980 and they weren't common then. Most everything I have heard about them is positive except for the additional costs.
I'll ask around at work and see if we are using them on new road construction on the forest properties we manage.
Waggin,
I know a bit of time has gone by since you last posted but I thought I would comment.
Go with the geotextile fabric!!
I am currently living in an area with clay based wet soils. If you want a road to last you need to do a couple of things for sure. First scrape off the top layer of soil. That is the organic based stuff. You will have lots of this where you are. Then you need to line the whole thing with a tough fabric or felt. This is key for the longevity. If you do not do this part it will not matter if you use 3-5" base rock, the mud will slowly work its way up into your road. Remember how much rain you said you get. That will keep the soil under your road wet all year long unless you do something about it first.
Once you have the fabric in and lay a good layer of base rock down (6"+, I did 10") you can start with the course layers. Having another 4" on top of the base will give you a solid surface. The base rock will be your drainage plane. That is the most important part for your site. You need that rain to flow away from your road as soon as possible. I don't know what types of top coats you might have available. We used 4" of C base which is the course sand used in road construction here, and then topped that with crushed limestone. The limestone creates a really hard surface almost like cement.
Building roads this way is for making them last. Mine is designed to last at least 50 years, and shouldn't need any real work for the first 20 years. If you add a little extra top coat every 5-10 years it will last forever. It does require an initial investment though. You can reduce the cost a bit by using salvaged concrete for the base rock. Mine came from a bridge that was being rebuilt near us.
Good luck with your place. It looks like a beautiful spot.
Sound advice Klorinth
About the only thing more expensive than Water in the Okanogan is gravel... ???
Yonderosa,
I completely understand. The cost of building a good road can be very large. The thing is that access can make all the difference for the rest of the property. If you have a good road that you can depend on even in heavy rains, then you can do anything.
I come from the Nelson area. Lots of rain and steep grades. If you don't get the access right you can be stuck when it comes time to bring in anything heavy. Lucky for me our property there has its own gravel pit. Makes our life easy for roads, foundations, and drainage. But most people have to truck it in at a large cost. The concrete I used here in Manitoba cost me about $50 a load. Dirt cheap compared to other stuff.
I had these used rugs that I thought would be a great really cheap subsitute for geotextile fabric. make sure bottom rocks bigger then rug holes. Reusing and saving money at same time.
gl
Well, plans are really changing now. Just bought a fixer cabin on some acreage up in Skagit County, and I'm going to be moving up there. It comes with a 1998 permitted gravity septic system, a creek, some beautiful trees, and a partial view of Mt. Baker from higher up on the property. I couldn't build on the land I already own for what I'm paying overall for the place, and it's got more acreage. I'm thinking of building the same type of sub-200 square foot on PT skids building for storage only now, but for the time being I have to start packing and moving. Oh, and I have to replace some of the plumbing that froze this winter before I bought it. That and evict the squirrel that is living under the roof. I'll probably keep this thread for the little shed and start a new one for the main cabin. My other land will probably be up for sale once I get a chance to clean it up a bit.
Thanks for the tips on the geotextile fabric and rock, everyone. They will come in hand for a couple of spots on the driveway at the new place.
Congrats!
Good luck with the new place.
We'll be waiting for pics to be envious of.
Quote from: waggin on February 28, 2011, 02:56:03 AM
My other land will probably be up for sale once I get a chance to clean it up a bit.
Hopefully you'll post your selling price here once you get a chance.