I am finishing off my 12x18 little house. It is insulated, can anyone recommend a nice small heater to make it a better environment for working on the inside during the winter (north east).
I do have electricty now, and will hopefully have the old small cast iron woodstove hooked up, (but not finished installed - have to wait till it is warmer to do the tile). The Mr. Heater propane looks interesting, and it would be nice to put it away when it isn't needed.
Any recommendations and/or comments? It would be a nice x-mas gift to myself.
I've been looking as well. Here is one I like http://www.woodstove.com/pages/gas_stove_mini.html
My bad I'm new here. The image didn't post
(http://www.woodstove.com/images/minisilo.jpg)
BTW Does anyone know what they call the type of wood burning stove where you build a small very hot fire and the extreme mass of the stove warms the area for some time?
Rocket Stoves
Heated Cob Benches, Heated-Flue Benches
Rocket Mass Heaters seems to be the new official one.
There's a new (almost, at least) book-sized version of the pamphlet that came out a while back. Comment is from someone who has built at least a couple of them. Found on this page. Dirt Cheap Builder is a good place to buy books. I need to get this one from her.
http://www.dirtcheapbuilder.com/rostforcobbu.html
QuoteReview of the Ianto's design by Ocean Liff-Anderson: From the "cob wood stove" discussion on flue-heated benches.......
As far as I'm aware the ONLY way to do this right is to build a Ianto-style rocket stove...normal wood stoves require a tall, vertical chimney to draft properly. If you take a regular wood stove and try force the flue horizontal, the most likely occurance will be the fire will go out and smoke will fill your room...
Ianto refined the rocket-cob design for over a decade, and the reason his rocket stove works with a long (up to twenty foot!) horizontal flue bench is specific to his rocket design.
There are some gorgeous--and violently expensive--wood stoves for boats.
http://www.marinestove.com/
(http://www.marinestove.com/august_halibut.jpg)
And your local gas supply (or Tractor Supply Company or a big box store) surely has two-plaque "radiant" non-vented propane or natural gas jobs that might be a lot less trouble--unless your place accumulated Carbon Monoxide and killed you--I have used the one-plaque ones ::) . They work, they put out nice heat.
Mr Heater puts out both one- and two- plaque versions. At one stage the two-plaque ones were being recalled. The one-plaque ones don't last very long. Something gums up the supply line. But while it works it is nice.
There are also the "catalytic" versions, one by Coleman that works on the one-pound bottles of propane, the others sit on top of grill gas bottles. My neighbors in Nashille used the latter for years, maybe still. They kept their house hotter than I did mine.
Hey John C,
I think you're talking about Masonry Stoves or Masonry Heaters or Russian Stoves, or Finnish Stoves. The style was developed in the Scandanavian areas. After cutting down all their forests ::), they realized that they needed to build better stoves that ran on less wood fuel.
More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masonry_heater
Kodakjello,
That is exactly the concept. I know I've seen stand alone soapstone (I think) stoves that work on the same principal. They are more massive than those designed for a continous fire. I didn't link to them when I saw them and can't find them now. I think a stove like that would be ideal for the small, well insulated house I'm intending to build.
I have a Consolidated Dutchwest catalytic heater in my 1700 sq ft house and it heats the place nicely. I'm in N. Georgia and prolonged periods below freezing are rare. I won't need nearky the BTU output in my next house.
An interesting link. Mark Twain talking about this kind of stove
http://www.vermontwoodstove.com/mtwain.html
This is as close as I've found so far
http://www.vermontwoodstove.com/dodatek.htm
(http://www.vermontwoodstove.com/dodatek/dodatek_lrg.jpg)
I heat exclusively with wood pellets. Here in New Hampshire, the demand has driven up prices this year (to $254/ton from $226/ton last year), but according to this fuel cost calculator (http://www.pelletheat.org/3/residential/compareFuel.cfm) I am still saving money over the cost of propane, which is what my furnace uses.
A pellet stove would be perfect for a small house, though the cost of a new one is high. Check out these Englander Stoves (http://www.englanderstoves.com/pellet_stoves.html). They are very efficient; I burn about five 40lb. bags a week, maybe seven during a cold spell.
Another alternative if you live in the Midwest is a Corn Stove (http://www.englanderstoves.com/10-cdvp.html). Same as a pellet stove, only it is designed to burn shelled corn. I haven't seen the price of corn lately, but farmers still complain about the low price, so it is probably a dirt cheap way to heat your house, and there is never a shortage..
There
would be a corn shortage if we decided that big-time ethanol from grain is good.
Right now I can go out in my woods and harvest wood, cut a few trees a year. With pellet fuel I
have to buy it. Which I do--for cat litter.
The big Tulikivi's may cost more than what you wanted to pay for the whole house. But they sure are nice looking. And some of the smaller ones may be semi-affordable, although
QuoteThe price listed is the manufacturer's net retail price for the Base Model of the fireplace pictured. Prices are subject to change without notice.
This price does not include custom options, installation, delivery, damper, heat shield, hearth tile, chimney, foundation, etc.
http://www.virginiaradiant.com/products.html
This one is a bit over $11 grand, not including the stuff in the quote above. My guess is that you
must have it professionally installed.
http://www.virginiaradiant.com/tk2700.html
This one is about half of that, but also without a lot of the thermal mass.
http://www.virginiaradiant.com/tk1000.html
(http://www.virginiaradiant.com/images/img1000/tk1006.jpg)
The rocket stove/heated cob bench sounds better and better to me. And the person on another list who has worked on a handful swears you can stand right above the chimney and not smell smoke. I.E., no pollution.
http://www.eheat.com/data/products.php?opt=products&show=0601
My monkies and I have been having good luck with these.
I'm still planning my cabin from the Little House plans. Hopefully, once the doctors figure out what's wrong with my wife and she goes back to work, I'll start on it. I noticed nobody mentioned baseboard heaters. My cabin will be two story, because I don't like sprawling houses. I'm kicking around a nice wood stove downstairs, since it'll be a big open room, and baseboard heaters in the two upstairs rooms, since one can be shut off during periods when it's not in use. Saves electricity.
Jared
Or you could just let the wood stove heat wander its way upstairs.
I had electric baseboard heaters in Indiana. We don't want to talk about the quality of the building in that nice duplex design.
But anyway, it stayed pretty cold in the (north-facing) living room. So I added a standard portable electric fan-forced heater. People told me--it will raise your electric bill, watch out. They were wrong. It appeared to stay the same. And I was warmer. So I'm not sure if electric resistance baseboard heat is worth installing. Probably in the bathroom a built-in heater would be good. But otherwise a Vornado heater or one of those oil-filled jobs might work just as well.
And free up your wall space for bookcases or a desk. Or some giant plasma TV.
Did you ever consider a heater like this? It could heat up your whole place, for those times when firewood is not the best option. And with the low voltage draw, it could run on a 12 v. battery and a propane tank for a long time!
http://www.ducktec.com./itmidx14.htm
(http://www.ducktec.com./everest.jpg)
Mike...
The DH and I will also be working through the winter months in an unheated house.
DH mentioned just this week that we needed to find a heat source or we would not be getting much work accomplished.
There is no insulation in the house so much of the heat will be lost but we need something to make the conditions more bearable.
Somewhere I saw a propane tank attached some sort of a heater just not sure of its safety.
I've been searching the net for a heat source but so far no luck.
Any suggestions?
I got the propane rocket looking one with 2 heat levels at the local Do It Best store.
Here is a list with prices. If no power the radiant ones that hook to the to p of the tank are pretty good too if not working in a large area.
http://www.nextag.com/propane-space-heater/search-html
(http://img.nextag.com/image/Reddy_Heater_Portable_Propane/1/000/000/827/255/82725588.jpg)
(http://img.nextag.com/image/Reddy_Heater_Portable_Propane/1/000/005/255/600/525560092.jpg)
Thanks Glenn,
The radiant heater with propane IS the heater that I had seen somewhere.
Nothing will keep us toasty until we get insulated but this will surely help with the chill.
If we get too cold we can always go outside and build a fire :)
Jackie
I installed the 30000 btu model of the ProCom in my little mobile home in the mountains. I got it at Harbor Freight for around $100 on sale a couple of years ago. I piped gas to it, wall mounted it and it is there when I need it. It only sticks out from the wall 6" or so and works great. I have a window about 8' away that I leave cracked since it is ventless. It uses about 1/3 gallon of gas per hour if you run it wide open which I never do so it is reasonably economical to use.
http://da.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=heater
QuoteDid you ever consider a heater like this? It could heat up your whole place, for those times when firewood is not the best option. And with the low voltage draw, it could run on a 12 v. battery and a propane tank for a long time!
http://www.ducktec.com./itmidx14.htm
(http://www.ducktec.com./everest.jpg)
Mike...
Would you consider this for permanent heat? How much space could it heat?
Jared
that heater looks pretty interesting. Like an RV heater that could go nearly anywhere.
The one that came with the trailer seemed to be a gas, if not electricity hog--I was going through two grill gas bottles of gas a week. But I don't know what kind of BTU's it put out. And since I didn't know much about how things worked at the time, it's possible that I was running the refrigerator on gas.
I can pretty well heat this--quite leaky--200 sf place in the daytime with a 1500-watt electric heater. I think Vornados are the best of the lot--less heat stratification. A little one-plaque Mr Heater might do the same, hanging on the wall, running off a grill-gas bottle stuck outside. It's not great at night, even if it does make nice heat. I think those are 8 or 9000 BTUs. As is the Coleman heater that optionally uses D-cells to run a fan, but that won't hang on the wall. Those jobs sitting on top of the grill gas bottle in the picture above are probably more, my neighbor in Nashville used them in his kitchen pretty much as heat for his whole (small) house--or at least the kitchen and living room.
Last couple of years, at night I've been cutting off the heat and curling up under two comforters with two dogs and sometimes a cat. The one who has just decided that the food I put out cats for is not food but a handful of play-toys to be bounced onto the computer keyboard. Thank you Izzy Katz. That's comfortable down to the high twenties inside, although it hasn't hit that yet this year. One of the cases where thermal mass would not be good. I can turn the heat on, go back to bed for an hour during which the temperature goes up 15 degrees.
Which means of course that I really have no idea how to "heat a house."
You need another dog, Amanda, in case of a Three Dog Night.
For some reason this song just keeps going through my head. :-/
I've got the extra dogs, including that lovely black girl in the log room, but they're not inside.
At the moment.
I finally started building my generator/off-grid equipment shed to house the batteries, inverter, charge controller, etc. I'm still trying to decide how to heat the shed and am open to suggestions.
No vent heaters might be ok but I don't know if I'll have too much condensation on the windows that will be installed especially since the shed will not need to be heated much warmer than 40-50 degrees F. I have recently read about vented catalytic heaters but am not sure if they are manufactured anymore. An old one pulled from a boat with corrosion on it sold on ebay for about $130. I thnk they were made by a company in Washington and were called the Platinum Cat. I put radiant tubing in the slab so that is another option. It was actually my original idea for heat since used water heaters can be found for $50-100 and it would be easy to run a vent for it. Any other ideas? Thanks.
Tom
Just a little more information. The shed is 8 feet by 8 feet 2x4 frame. I'm putting pictures up on my yahoo picture page:
//photos.yahoo.com/ny2vermont
Thanks.
Tom
With a little Goolgling I found the name of the company that made these. I couldn't find where I read that the company stopped making them after their factory had a bad fire.
Platinum CAT brand units made by Thermal Systems, Inc. of Tumwater, WA. (360) 532-0539
Thet were available in 3000 BTU and 6000 BTU sizes.
I also found a current listing for this tyenig sold by cisolar.com. I haven't called this company to find out if they actually sell these and if they are currently being manufactured. They are 5200 BTU.
http://www.cisolar.com/catPool.html
Tom
Now the picture is complete. I found the page which mentions the demise of the company and their former employee who is revivng these heaters. The page is on the RV Consumer Group site.
http://www.rv.org/EB-15007.htm
Here is the text and pictures from the page:
Cat Furnace Revived
Like the furry kind, the Platinum Cat may indeed prove to have 9 lives. Arnie Lind, formerly a technician with Thermal Systems, has revived the Platinum Cat after the Tumwater, Washington plant was destroyed by fire in the late nineties. This is good news for the many RVers who rely on catalytic furnaces to heat their RVs.
(http://www.rv.org/picts/15007.jpg)
(http://www.rv.org/picts/15010.jpg)
When two of our twelve Platinum Cats stopped operating after three years of heavy use, we took them down to Arnie, who is now doing business from his home in Tumwater. He quickly identified the problem: A bit of corrosion was interfering with the proper functioning of the circuitry. His adept diagnosis confirmed for us that Arnie is very capable of building and repairing Platinum Cats.
The Platinum Cat is the only catalytic furnace generally approved for use in RVs because it is power vented. Without power venting, a catalytic heater absorbs oxygen and adds huge amounts of water vapor to the air inside the RV--which can be deadly to the occupants and shorten the life of the RV. We do not recommend any propane-fueled heating device that is not power vented to the outside. We found that the Platinum Cat uses negligible amounts of battery power and is extremely efficient in propane consumption. To our knowledge, this is the only power-vented catalytic furnace available for the RV market. Don't go for a substitute. Non-vented propane furnaces are definitely dangerous.
If you own a Platinum Cat catalytic furnace that needs repairs, or if you are interested in purchasing a new one, contact Arnie at 360-446-5355.
RVCG Staff
My 2 cents worth... regarding the original requesr; that sounded like a request for a temporary heat source while working on the interior and the wood stove install. If so, my choice would be for what was referred to as a "rocket", or to me a "jet-engine" type of heater. You can get ones that run on propane and others that run on liquid kerosene. Just like most of the catalytic/radiant types though, these need fresh air so you don't put yourself to sleep permanently. That's my reason for my strong dislike for them.
Personal choice, IF 120 VAC is available is electric; for short term I don't mind the cost
Comment regarding the furnace pictured in reply #12. That's an Atwood RV furnace. There's also the suburban brand. They are nice in that they have an exterior vent for the exhaust as well as drawing the combustion air in from the outside. You don't loose your heated air by the furnace combusting it. Drawbacks are that they may no be approved for house use... if that's a concern for you. One other drawback, IF you rely on battery power is they suck up to 4 amps whenever the blower runs. And lastly as far as I know they ALL still suffer from a design flaw; at least I see it as a flaw. Foe those of you who do not know the basic operation cycle, here it is in brief.... When the thermostat calls for heat the blower motor turns on. This is a two section blower; one blower circulates air thru the RV/house, the other moves air thru the combustion chamber. The 2 fans run off the one motor. There is a 15 sec or so delay, while the fan runs, before the gas valve opens the auto ignitor fires. So far so good. IF, for some reason the gas does not ignite (no gas, low fan speed due to low batteries, whatever...) the system will try to ignite the gas a second and a third time. At that point it ceases trying to light, BUT the fan keeps going until the batteries are stone cold dead. That is if you are not tied to the grid. So if you're not there to turn it all off your batteries go dead, freeze, etc. Bad news. Of course this is only a big problem when/if you are on batteries only.
There is an aftermarket circuit board that does shut every thing off after 3 strikes. Aftermarket ingenuity beats the OEM.
One last further note: a couple posts wondered about how much (BTU) was required to heat a given space. The following links have calculators that are interesting.
http://www.heatershop.com/btu_calculator.htm
http://www.herman-nelson.com/btu_calculator.cfm
I also meant to add that I will be recycling a Suburban brand RV furnace from my old RV once my cabin the the deep woods is done.
There was a comment by someone that their RV furnace sucked propane and electricity. I've covered the electrical issue and meant to point out that the avergae RV has really poor insulation compared to what can be achieved in a well built cabin. Makes a world of difference to retain that heat. My RV has 1.5" thick walls with f'glass. Very bad; some of the newer and more upscale are better I'm sure.
My leaky travel trailer may have every bit of 2" walls. In any case the manufacturer brags on how much insulation their places have.
It's cold in here right now. But it's on grid, so I can run an electric heater. Which works fine if it's not too cold--like tonight.
Amanda, you mentioned the rocket stoves at the bottom of post number 8 above -- I'd like to know more about those from people who have built and used them. I have one of the cob books (by Ianto Evans), and they talk about the rocket stoves in there. I'm not into high tech, want to use wood heat, and can't afford one of the nice little manufactured wood stoves.
Kathleen
Glenn has got his mostly built, after the instructions in new and improved Evans book on the subject. See the last page of his underground cabin topic in builders.
http://www.dirtcheapbuilder.com/rostforcobbu.html
tc-vt, what Gary of builditsolar has done in that article about his own workshop (cover article in Mother Earth News this time), and the other one described here might work just fine--no electricity to start an explosion if there's too much hydrogen around:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/SolarShed/collectors.htm
Actually one could probably use a rocket heater if you put where you add wood on the outside of the building, or even just the large cob bench across your battery area.
Here's the start of my rocket stove stuff, Kathleen.
http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1107141843/400
I did it with steel because that's what I have. Bricks will probably last longer but both will work. The book gives details on measurements. John was going to put some info together here too.
QuoteHere's the start of my rocket stove stuff, Kathleen.
http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1107141843/400
I did it with steel because that's what I have. Bricks will probably last longer but both will work. The book gives details on measurements. John was going to put some info together here too.
Thanks -- I just took a look at all that! We have good soil here for cob, I think (might have to add sand, as this soil is largely clay), and I've been thinking about building a cob rocket stove in the garage.
Kathleen
Another batch of small stoves.
http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/000666.php