So far on my project, I have a small 2 gallon compressor and a palm nailer (thanks to recommendations for readers here), but I am resisting buying a nail gun for framing, etc. So many people are telling me that I am foolish, that they are safe, etc. But then I read this on cnn.com:
Nailguns taking out weekend warriors
http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/04/12/injuries.nailguns.reut/index.html
I have two kids (12 and 14) plus other folks who are less familiar with building than I who are helping (or plan to help) and I just think that nailguns are not the silver bullet--that the time it takes to nail is relatively small compared to the time thinking, carrying, measuring, lifting, cutting, drilling, etc.
What say you?
I watched a similar report on the net this AM , Most nail guns do have safety triggers , but if your building one house I'd hand nail it.
Guns where made for everyday use carpenters thet save your elbow and shoulder , some what , I guess, from the repetive type injury we carpenters get from to much work.
Guns are nice for some things , when aligning parts in trim or a shop setting building cabinets , and the like you can't beat a gun .
In framing what a gun will not do is pull parts together tightly / suck things up tight,
Sloppy framing is in part due to lazy carpenters , or those that don't care or don't know / haven't been trained right / production framers / etc .
IF THE PARTS ARE NOT SUCKED UP / PULLED TIGHT WITH A HAMMER YOU'LL HAVE A SLOPPY JOB!
So all that been said , I like my guns , I could build without them but !!
YMMV.
G/L PEG
I own quite a few nailers & staplers mostly left over from when I built boats and had a crew. When I was rebuilding the log home foundation there were places where I couldn't swing a hammer so I bought one of these
(http://www.juldan.com/images/a20r_3qt.jpg)
I like the fact that it drives about any nail so I can buy a pound or two for special circumstances. I think a finish nailer or siding nailer would save more time in the construction of one house. I find finish nailers particularly useful. I've used nailers for so long my aim with a hammer isn't what it once was. I seem most capable of producing a distressed look in finish work. :-/
I'd get a motorcycle.
(Wait a minute ... I already have one! With over 100k miles on it. But I own nary a nailgun. Too scary!)
A lot of it depends on how much time you have, how much flesh you are willing to risk, how much you train yourself to think about whether you and everyone else are clear each time you shoot - and then how lucky you are when something doesn't go as planned.
I only have a few days between jobs to accomplish things many times so I us the nailgun and the palm nailer. I feel pretty safe with it. My son and one co-worker have each stuck a nail in their hand and Fred shot me in the back with one when a nail glanced off the side of a piece of wood.
The deer fence I built in 2 days would have been very hard to do by myself without it. Probably would have taken me an extra day or more.
Not a Harley is it, JRR? If so I will have to change my mental picture of you. ;D
Beemer.
Oh -- okay -- there you go. I was afraid I was going to have to shave your head and add earrings every time I saw one of your postings. ;D
Nail guns are a lot like those other guns, they're only as safe as the person holding one. They can save some time and your arm though. So Depends. :-/
I have several different purpose guns. If I had to only pick one of them I'd choose to keep my small finish nailer and forgo the framing, the larger finish and the stapler.
PEG made a good point, an air nailer will shoot the nail right thru the open joint. You need to stop and hammer it home. I constructed some home-made trusses once with nailed and glued plywood plates at the joints. The air nailer couldn't even squish the glue out of the joint.
My 2 cents worth
I keep a large hammer nearby to beat dents in the wood in the general area of the nail head if it doesn't go all the way down. :-?
I've never used one for framing but as a flooring installer air nailer's and staplers are a time saver and elbow saver but now I have trigger finger :(.
They are production tools and if you take the production tools away from home builders either the wages of the workers would have to go down or the cost of homes would be much higher than they are now. As far as building your own home you may get a certain amount of pride saying "I pounded in every nail myself" but for repetitive nailing of sheeting I'll go pneumatic.
A bucket of pride and $4.50 will buy you a cup of coffee. :o
Give me the air nailer. :)
$4.50? Oh yeah, California Coffee. Everything is so much better there.
I'm watching a 1/2 million $ home go up across the lake from me. They used air shot staples to put the OSB sheathing on. Forgoing the bit about saving time and the arm, can this be as good (strong) as real nails lovingly pounded by the owner builder? I'm not against air nailers, but I don't want to forgo build quality.
If I was build a 1/2 million dollar shack there would be NO OSB used :o
Staples can not be used in my area , they clain / say they don't have as much shear strenght as a nail.
Your area may vary if it is not a earthquake pron area.
Personal I like staples for nailing off sheathing, in my limited reshearch when tearing out stuff that is stapled (sheathing) I find / think it holds as well or brtter then gun driven nails. This may in part be due to personal bias ( since I like staples ) , or partly due to OSB being easy to tear out , agian IMO OSB is not a strong as CDX ply, based on my "study"/ experience with remodeling .
OSB that is or has been wet / has mold or rot , (if it rots :-/ it sort of turns to straw "like" mush ::) ) tears out way easier than 3/4 shiplap , or sqr. edged boards nailed with 2 8d brite nails , those old brites really hold , unlike sinkers , Most commonly used today , or gun nails , even the ring shanks seem to pull pretty easy when driven thru OSB, they seem to get sort of "Greased" by something in the OSB .
CDX is harder to rip out , it does have delaming issues , MTL due to Govt. / EPA , issues with glue use , just like paint all the "good " chemicals have to be removed INCASE some ones kid drinks or eats it :-/ ::) Who the hell lets their kid eat paint ::) :-/ :'(
They could eat cake ;D ;D
I'm sure it's some Govt. (Bush type ) super seceret plan for all housing to fall down so the mass's will have to be come subservent to a master Govt, run by the Shrub ::)
Oh back to OSB the stuff is crap , I would not used it on my own house , clients have the option to choise between the two based on price .
Thats my . 25 cents on that :-[ ;D
Ahhhh - PEG , you are starting to see the light. Follow the money. :)
"who lets their kids eat paint?" - the same folk who feed them cdx for lunch. - hence the need to make it "safe". I'm going with cdx ply and real friggin nails. The hell with the arm- I'll recover. It's only one small cabin.
Quote
I'm going with cdx ply and real friggin nails. The hell with the arm- I'll recover. It's only one small cabin.
Quote
but if your building one house I'd hand nail it.
Sage advise , from post #2 of this thread ::) ;D
Thanks guys. There's no replacement for replacement for experience.
oops. one to many replacements there.
Right on builderboy.
( also FYI, you can edit any of your own posts. lick on "modify" at the upper right of any of your posts.... I use it frequently ;D)
Thanks MountainDon. I tried "licking" on modify and got a bad taste in my mouth. ;D
Quote
Thanks MountainDon. I tried "licking" on modify and got a bad taste in my mouth. ;D
Well it pays to keep your equipment clean , yanno in case ya gotta lick on it ;D
I think Mtn. D will be doin a lil editing when he logs on ;D
Mountain Don can't change that --- I wish I had a lock button in my administrative tools.
Hey , Don. Do you need a Licker License to use the Lick button?
Quote
Mountain Don can't change that --- I wish I had a lock button in my administrative tools.
Hey , Don. Do you need a Licker License to use the Lick button?
I meant his own post ya gink ::)
So this leads to "licker in the front , poker in the rear!" , I guess ::)
So sorry :-[ :-[ ;D
Huummm guess we can't play poker ( the card game ) ::) what kinda gestapo place is this anyway :-/ on the forum ::) AAAAAggh ;D At least not out back ;D
Humm maybe we can't even take a poke at Glenn anymore ;D
I'm losing control, PEG -- actually I got behind on reading my posts and can't keep up with you giving me a bad time.
I'm not used to reading those Licker Establishment signs. Or would those be Liquor? :-?
Glenn, Sweetie, you're going to have to get up a lot earlier to keep up with PEG! ;D
Oh --- I get it now PEG -- the censorship function of the YABB bulletin board has made that sound even worse than it was meant to be. ;D
(Poke'r) is a censored word so the program automatically puts an X in place of it. For a minute there I thought you were talking about a ..... nevermind. :o
I'm going to add sweetie to the censored word list. Cut that out. >:(
We had to censor Poke'r - Back'gammon and other words due to spammers. :-/
No way I'm gonna edit that now! :-[ One little mistake and you guys had nearly three hours of fun. ;D
But that's precisely why I said I (C)lick on modify frequently.
You don't need a license to lick; ya'll need to be certified.
Certified nuts.
Quote
Certified nuts.
Yup ;D
That leaves me out --- I'm only a certified welder. :o
...but speaking of licking -- PEG, do Navy guys commonly lick 9 volt batteries? :-?
http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-50.html
Interesting. I guess we should be careful how we conduct ourselves our our solar system batteries when bleeding.
QuoteInteresting. I guess we should be careful [highlight]how we conduct ourselves[/highlight] our our solar system batteries when bleeding.
Nice pun there Don. ;D
I thought so too ;D
I couldn't help myself. I had no resistance. :-/
That sounds like BS to me , Hell I used a simpson meter and didi the ohm out thing many times , I never did stick myself intentionally but and this is a funny storey , and no it wasn't "at sea" but here at NAS Whidbey .
We had a jet that had a gripe , Oil pressure IIRC, anyway the way the power / path to the part was it ran thru a wire harness that was clamped to the motor , this harness was large , ran to many parts / systems and was factory braided / a coax type deal . We at the sqr. level could not , or wheer not suppose to repair any part of said harness , it had to be removed from the A/C . Down side was to remove it you had to drop the motor a J52 -408 Pratt & whitney , a big , sort of job and of course that put the A/C in "down status" something the Chiefs and Maint. officiers didn't want to happen as "Up jets " look good and your mission capabilty status looks good , so when I told them "we gotta drop the motor " they freaked out ::), as we had another jet down hard at the time . So we fight over it yanno Petty officer to Chief and the LDO (limited duty officier ) AKA Loud Dumb Obnoxious ;D
So I'm sayin yes sir ::),
yup Chief sorry etc ::), anyway we drop the motor , change the harness and the Chief (accually a Senior Chief E-8) , and the LDO who was a Avaition electrican before he went LDO have the harness in the office ,
I get called in :o and they tell me
" this harness isn't "open" :o (a break in contunituty S/P ) "" see ""
the Senior sez as he holds the meter pins and the wires between his fingers ,
he the senior was a Avaition electronic tec the LDO was AE like me Aviation electrican , so they both have a wire / elec. back ground , I said
" Are you guys kidding me ?? :-/ :-/
"[highlight] No they say it's not open !! [/highlight] >:( >:(
I started to LMAO and they get sort of pissed , I say " Senior take yer fat fingers OFF THE PROBES and try again !!!! " , Well yanno they said
" Get yer arse outta here !!! ::)
My leaders , Eh :-[ ::)
A true "Sea storey" No $hit ;D
Yup Drift Master's fer sure ;D
So about nail guns , ::) ::)
It does seem to me that I read somewhere that with increased use of electric accessories in cars (electric power steering on a hyrid for instance) that manufacturers might need to raise the voltage auto. The article mentioned that 48 volts was the likely maximum that would be used, because anything much over 50 V became dangerous to the human body. A medical doctor friend confirmed this. I didn't bring it up before as I was having too fun with my puns. :-[
Wikipedia has this chart at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock It would seem it's a voltage/current combination. I do also believe there is more danger when the current passes from one arm to the other... heart's in the way.
I also recall making a circle with several classmates in high school physics class, teacher included, One person would grasp one terminal on an old telephone hand crank dynamo. The person at the other end of the circle gasped the other terminal. The person who let go got the worst zap when the crank was turned. Still alive today, although slightly odd.
QuoteSo about nail guns , ::) ::)
So an electric nailgun could be twice as dangerous.
I know that 50 joules is what we initially use to shock a patient out of atrial fibrillation; someone in ventricular tachycardia (0nly ventricles beating super fast, no atrial action) we start at 200 joules & go up to 360 - don't know how that compares to volts... :-/
If someone starts coming after me with a defibrillator, I think I'd only be worried about 2 joules. :-?
QuoteIf someone starts coming after me with a defibrillator, I think I'd only be worried about 2 joules. :-?
Ugh !! I knew you wouldn't be able to resist that one ::) ;D
Joule is a measurement of work. One joule is equal to one watt-second of power.... like in kilowatt-hour. It's a pretty small measure.
I'm not gonna touch those jewels Glenn.
BTW, I was having a lot of neck & shoulder pain a few years ago. Glenn cranked up his tractor magneto & tried to attach it to my shoulder to "make it better" (back in the 20's & 30's they used to use electroshock to the muscles - we have a little antique machine like that & physical therapists use it today)
I wouldn't go for it until he did it to himself a few times - he'd say, "that didn't hurt" - so I finally got enough nerve to let him try it on me... well, I have to tell you, it packed quite a punch! :o Didn't let him do that again... :-/
Sassy, that would have been much like the old crank-em-up telephone dynamo.
I think thats what they where tryin on my Grandma Ciocco when she was in the nut house back in 37, for shootin Grandpa 6 times in the back :o :o with his service revolver, he was a Philli cop. :'(
Anyway she died 6 months after the shooting , the court said she was nuts in less than 10 days , so off to the state nut house for the crimally insane for Granny :o Like I said 6 month later she was dead of a heart issue :'( My Mom kept that secert till after she was dead , my Mom that is , so for like 40 / 45 years maybe more or less , we just didn't talk about her Mom and Dad, shocking eh!! ??
I let the guys who work for me know that just to keep um thinkin ;D The nuts don't fall far from the tree , they say :-? :o
I wonder what would have happened if I'd a got 'er firing an all four cylinders. :-? :)
We used to use the old hand crank telephone dynamo's to get night crawlers to come up out of the ground for fishing. I suppose that's not environmentally correct anymore. :o
Interesting story PEG -- now we'll never know -- she may have been totally sane and justified.
..but we'll always have to wonder about you. :-/
Oh she had to have been nuts, they where seperated at the time Granny was in Pascoag , R.I. Gramps in Phillie , so she took a train to NY city , ran outta money , and hitch hiked on to Philly with at least one kid in tow (not my Mom they say ::) )
She waited all day for him to come home , he was working the noon or so to midnight shift, she got his spare gun out ,from some place, and met him at the trolley station walked back to his house , she wanted to get back together , they say , he said no way and she shot-um on the front porch , emptied the gun , a 38 IIRC . Then sat at the table till the cops came .
She told then he had in the past hit her on the head with a bottle showed the scare to them , etc.
One of the TV shows I like right now is cold case , I should send in this storey to see if they'd like to use it , it's to wierd to make up ;D
Anyway I think don't know her heart condition was due to the electro shock they used to do at that time but who knows the state place is long closed down .
Funny thing was our / my Mom used to tell us kids to " Not get her WOP up!" Or there'd be hell to pay , She never told us what / why that should concern us :-/ as we none of us kids knew squat about it .
And really it was Grandma who was the nut , I guess , and she was of French Canadian decent or so the newpaper clipping a family member doing some back ground checking for anstrery reason turned up , I don't even know w hat her (granda's madien name was )
I know the WOP part's not to PC eh!! But heck Mom used it to describe herself.
I do wonder about myself and wether not knowing was good :-/, I guess it was , all of us kids , one bro , 2 sisters 4 total have stayed outta jail, as have our kids , so we didn't repeat what we didn't know , sort of .
Another thing that bugs me is my Dad parents , the only Grandparents I knew , had to have known all this , other people intown , it was very small had to have known and here it took me 47 years to hear about it :-/
So know you know way more than you want to , I'm pretty sure I know more than my Mom wanted me to ;D
Very interesting, PEG. What a colorful background. :)
I wouldn't want to have granny mad at me with a [highlight]nailgun[/highlight] in her hand.
Fred only shot me in the back once with the nailgun. :-/
Back to the topic I see. Good going Glenn.
QuoteBack to the topic I see. Good going Glenn.
The question was answered in post #2 , if your building one house you do not need a nail gun , by the time you know how to use it effectively you'll be done .
One house to build hand nail it , you'll aviod shooting your self or some on else ::) How do you think we built house's before the 80's , we hand nailed um , it builds strong bodies 12 ways along with a solid house thats pulled together.
So eh a lil drift is good , or so Glenn once told me ::) YMMV as may mine I see :o ::)
As I tried to post earlier before my computer crashed, I wouldn't have missed your story for the world --- everybody loves looney bin stories --- Strange Brew was one of my favorites of all time, eh? --- and I think the question was answered to the best of our ability :)
Now to get that sneaky ad ware junk off my computer and find out what is locking it up once in a while. May have to shoot it with my nailgun. :)