I have seen this posted somewhere on here before, but for the life of me I cannot find it anywhere. I am thinking of changing my location where I am going to build farther away from my well. My question is how far from the actual well can I go without losing pressure. Is it possible to put a small pump station along the way somehow? I am trying to avoid drilling another well if all possible. The well I do have will need to go down another 100 feet I feel, sometimes it will run low in the dry summer months. The distance I am looking at is about 500 feet, is this possible or is that a longshot?
How deep is your well and how much more will the water line rise in that additional 100'? The pump manufacturers have tables to determine pump size and line size. I don't think an additional 100' of run is a big deal if it's not going uphill. If your well is likely to run dry now and then you might want to consider a modest size water tank, 2000-4000 gal. close to the house. It could have a shallow well pump of its own to provide pressure to the house. It would solve both problems.
My well depth right now is about 150 feet, the distance I am wanting to extend the line is about 500 feet.
These are the questions you need to answer and then you can choose a system.
After your well has been drilled, you will need the following information to begin the selection of your water well submersible pump system.
How deep is your well?......................................
How many gallons of water does your well produce per minute? .......................
Where is the static water level,.........................
where the water comes up to ( down to water from the surface )?
After you get to the top of the well, do you need to pump the water uphill? ....................
If you do, how far straight up hill rise must you pump the water? .......................
Is there a longer run from the well to where the water is being pumped to? ........................
How far is this run from the well top to the destination?...............................
What size pipe are you pumping through? ........................
Is the pipe PVC, Black Poly Coiled Pipe, Copper, or Steel? ........................
When you get to the destination, what is your required gallons per minute and pressure?
GPM ................................... PSI .................................
Are you pumping into a pressure tank from the well, or into a cistern to collect the water?
If you are using a cistern, you will need a pump to pressurize the house system.
We recommend the Flint & Walling CPH-05-S Shallow Well Jet Pump.
How far from the well is the power supply for your water well pump system? ......................
A lot of it depends on whether your pump has the extra capacity. I am pumping from 320 feet deep right now and can pump my well dry. In addition to that I am pumping uphill 80 feet elevation rise with 600 feet of run for a total of 920 feet of pipe. The last 600 feet is 2" pvc as I didn't want to restrict my line and have any pump problems.
I had my pump designed to have enough capacity to pump from the bottom of my well which is 675 feet deep, so could add 0ver 300 feet of pipe and still pump successfully.
If you don't have a lot of rise I don't think you will have problems especially if you use large diameter pipe.
John C's information is the best way to make a proper design but if you already have some of the stuff you may be able to make it work. If you can build excess pressure quickly it is an indicator that you have some added capacity.
I drilled wells for 10 years, installed a few pumps and worked closely with pump companies. I didn't do a lot of pumps as I didn't compete with my customers, however it was necessary to know a bit about their work so I could do mine properly.
My well is 586' deep with the pump set about 20' above the bottom. It is about 200' from my house to the well. At the house I have a 2100 gallon underground tank with a float switch wired back to the well controls. When the water level drops 300 gallons the float switch activates the deep well pump which then refills the tank. The float will turn the pump off when the tank is full.
I then have a 1/2 hp Flotec pump and a pressure tank which provides water from the tank to the house plumbing. By using this system my deep well pump only runs long enough to pump 300 gallons at a time. This saves a lot of wear and tear on the expensive, hard to service pump. I ran 2" water line from the well to the tank. This has been working without a hitch for about 2 years now. If the well ever goes down I can haul water and keep the tank filled while repairs are in progress.
I also pump up to a 2600 gallon tank 80 feet elevation above the house at the end of the 600 foot line and gravity back to the house. Being on solar I didn't want to run an extra pressure system at the house.
Good system, desdawg. :)
QuoteMy well is 586' deep with the pump set about 20' above the bottom.
Ouch $$$$ what size pump lives down there. What gauge wire did you have to run down to the pump. I presume you had to run steel pipe down the well.
If I remember correctly, which rarely happens anymore, :-/ it is a 2hp Grondfaus (sp?) pump. The wire was either #6 or #8
My pump is 1.5 horse - about 4 gpm at the bottom and about 10 gpm where it is now. I have 10 gauge wire into the well - 12 gauge feeding it at about 200 feet from the power panel. Mine is hanging on 1 inch pvc - special for pumps with a safety rope tied on that runs to the surface.
If I add on I may install my windmill pump above it with 2 inch steel but a real nightmare if I have to pull it. so may not change things for a while -- If it's not broke - don't fix it -- sounds good to me.
I pump around 500 gallons of water per day for the garden using only solar power with a standard 220v pump.
OK no more whining from me about my 235' well. Of course my neighbors wells are 95' and 135'. I had to replace the pump last summer after 18 years. Pulling it up 8 weeks after breaking my hip had a really low fun factor.
Pulling pumps are not my favorite thing on a good day, let alone doing it after I broke something.
Dang guys, guess you'll all have to take out a mortrgage to buy enough copper wire to hook up those deep pumps!!!!!!!!! 10ga three conductor with ground is going to run you over $1 per foot, minimum. I don't think God has enough to buy 8 gauge!
Remember when trying to determine if your pump can pumb X feet to your house...you are more concerned about the difference in height from the pump to the house than you are about the length of pipe. Course the pipe itself restricts the glow due to friction but, nothing like a couple of dozen feet of head!
Okie Bob
I bought mine about 5 years ago - 320 in the well and about 300 still on the roll but been pumping that way for over 4 years so I guess it will work. Don't tell me I'm not supposed to do it that way because of induced voltages etc. Bob. :) Next thing you'll want to tell me is that I was supposed to finish the installation. I'm still undecided about the windmill though. :-/
Glenn, last time I looked, scrap copper was selling here for $3.80 per pound!!!!!!! Can you believe it?
Suggest you cut off what you need for your pump and take the rest to the scrap yard, I would!
And, no, I wouldn't worry about any stray inductance due to the coil or wire, just go sell it! The Chinese will thank you for it!
Okie Bob
Maybe if you were to come over here, Bob -- maybe bring Jonesy and a couple of cases of Beer, Jonesy could barbecue us a nice big Goanna -- maybe after a few hours you could talk me into cutting that wire and selling it, but other than that, I may want to put it deeper so it takes longer to pump it dry. I do have a safety sensor to shut it off when dry BTW. :)
A bit of cogitating that came to me last night.
586 ft. @ 1 atmosphere per 33 ft. = 17.76 a @ 14.7 lbs/a = 261 psi not including the rise to the house or the 40 - 60 psi working pressure Call it 325 psi min. :o
Actual formula is .433 lbs per foot of head or 2.31 feet per lb. 586x.4333= 253.91 lbs or 586/2.31=253.67
Still a good healthy head of pressure. As my pump starts pumping deeper current draw goes up. I also use it as a way to use part of the excess solar power I make to keep from overcharging the batteries - It is my dump load. Without a regulator I would pump the well dry and still overcharge my batteries.
Well Glenn, you get Jonsay and his goanna and I'll bring the beer and some good old Tx bbq (you guys can have the goanna) and we'll talk you out of that old copper wire, for sure!
Glad you have limit switch on your pump, fastest way to burn one up is to run without water and the cost of the wire is nothing compared to a new pump and pulling it
Also glad to see you got the head formula correct. Don't know where John C came up with the one he used...must have been a nightmare instead of a dream? And I believe the weight of water is something like 8.66 pounds per gallon? plus or minus a whole bunch....and that is what you use to calculate head, if I recall correctly??? Been way to long since I took that fluids course in college.
Okie Bob
PS: a quick call to a pump compnay would answer the question.
I drilled for 10 years Bob and have a mind like a steel trap. :) Kinda rusty.
Number of gallons and weight don't affect it - just the head -- what they do affect is how wet you will get when your repair at the bottom of the line doesn't hold. 2600 gallons at 80 feet of head has appx 30 psi. One cup of water at 80 feet of head also has appx 30 psi. The line I broke at the bottom unfortunately had the 2600 gallons at 80 feet of head or a good portion of it. Totally soaked my panties trying to put that sucker back together. :'(
You are absolutely correct about that Glenn, I yeild to a superior being!
Now where is that Jonsey when I need him!
(sitting here slapping forehead)
Okie Bob
I'm sorry Bob -- I can't help it. :-/
Talked to Jonesy on Skype the other night. He's a pretty busy fellow but drops in here and Skypes us every so often. :)
Surface area of the cap - etc definitely has a great bearing on it, Bob -- much easier to cap a 1/2 inch pipe at 30 psi than a 2 inch one. 1/2 inch one probably around 5 lbs to overcome but a 2 inch one has about 94 lbs to overcome and if that 94 lbs is spraying out of that 2 inch pipe and soaking your undies while you are trying to cap it then it is almost impossible.
Now if you had to decide whether to carry a 5 gallon bucket or a 50 gallon bucket, then your (1 gallon of water equals 8.33 lbs. -looked it up) 8.33 lbs per gallon would help you decide. :)
QuoteDon't know where John C came up with the one he used...must have been a nightmare instead of a dream?
Nah. Scuba diving. You get one more atmosphere of pressure ~ 14.7 lbs for every 33 ft. you go down. You use it to calculate down time and decompression - accent rates, or that's how it was done 35 years ago. Hey, it was close. I came up with about 261 and Glenn's more precise method was 254 plus the rise, if any, to the house and working pressure. Either way its a bunch
You know how in the movies they just start digging with shovels and after a while whoopeee, water. Not much of that going on in desdawg's neighborhood.
Glenn, I'm fascinated by the windmill. I guess it would be a very practical thing with a shallower well ... 150' or so ???
Practical if that depth (150' or so) for a lazy guy like me. :)
I have a nice 8' Aermotor 53' tall laying on the ground. It would marginally get the water to the top of the ground now but I want to go 80' higher so what I had thought about doing was to put my electric pump on the bottom of the same pipe - it will work, then put the windmill cylinder on but reduce it from 2" to 1 1/2" so it will pump less water higher. I would add about 300 feet of windmill pump to my existing 320 feet and put the electric to near the bottom.
What stops me ?-- thinking about having to pull 620 feet of pipe, 300 feet of sucker rod to fix the pump if it ever gets a problem., then put it all back in. :-?
Duh!
I'd been thinking of how far the pumps would pull.
:-[
They do use a lot more power the farther they have to push.
(I was just looking at the Solar Slow-Pump specification sheet, again. I really did want one of those. Probably never ever use the semi-local solar supplier because they didn't give me a quote)
http://www.2gosolar.com/Conergy%20Products/Conergy%20Spec%20Sheets/Slowpump/SlowpumpFeb02.pdf
One thing to keep in mind is that no matter how deep your well is, you are only pumping from the drawdown level of the well - example ---
600 foot deep well pump at 580 feet.
Static level 100 feet - the level the well sits at when not pumping.
Pumping level at 20 gallons per minute - 120 feet. You provide energy only for pumping from 120 feet plus to build your desired pressure. The water comes up to 120 willingly by itself at this pumping rate. The pump in this case could be safely set at 130 feet and work for many years until the static level dropped.
If the pump was shut off and the water measured in 5 minutes and recovered to 110 feet, that is called the 5 minute recovery rate. It would be considered 2 gallons per foot of drawdown and a bigger pump could be designed using that data assuming 40 gallons would pull the well down to 130'. A bigger test would be done for a larger production well.
If the water was hit at 300' and came up to the 100 foot level it is an artesian well. If it flowed over the top it would be a flowing artesian well. If it was hit at 300' and stayed there it is not an artesian well.
Depth of well does not have an effect on power requirements except it could affect how fast the water flows into the well, hence the drawdown and recovery rate. Excess depth can also cause water to be lost or gained if it ties two aquifers together and the two have different static levels that were previously not tied together. This can easily spread pollution under the ground without anyones knowledge above the ground as the polluted water may flow into the clean aquifer. The main types of wells that could do this are open hole or perforated wells.
So, today I learned I have an artesian well. They hit water at a little over 200 ft and drilled another 30 or so. The water rose to about 50 feet from the ground. 19 - 1/2 years later I know what to call it. :)
It is not common knowledge but came from a book I studied when drilling I think --- Groundwater and
Wells by Driscoll.
Most wells do rise quite a bit in the borehole when the aquifer is reached. An exception - non-artesian would be a well drilled near a lake or water bearing sands near the surface---- in an unconfined aquifer where the level is similar to the lake -
Wells can be pressurized from any nearby or even distant mountains that are the watershed and allow water into the ground at a higher level, to be tapped under pressure by your downslope well. Water will rise in your well until it equalizes with the pressure necessary to send the rest down into the lowlands below. If there is too much pressure where you drilled, it then becomes a flowing artesian.
Any other tips/suggestions about the water line from the well to the house? Had a well drilled last summer, the tank is buried next to the wellhead and have a frostproof spigot at the wellhead. This summer's project is to trench the water line 50' to the cottage. I know I need to stay below the frost line to keep from freezing. It is a pretty flat run. Is it true the conduit for the electric to the pump must be in a seperate trench than the water line but need not be as deep?
Usually they can be run together - I don't recall anything specific about separation. If frost depth is deep then probably the electric conduit could be shallower. Seems minimum 18" from memory but that may not be right.
When I did mine they were supposed to be separate. The trench was 16" or 18" wide, as we laid the water line against one side of the trench we put the electric cable (I think it was called UF cable, no conduit) against the other side of the trench and threw a bucket or two of dirt on them every few feet to keep them apart while the trench was filled. Since they weren't touching they were separate. Did the same thing for the underground electric and telephone which were supposed to be separate. The power company and telephone company were ok with it as long as they weren't touching.