14 x 24 Olympic Peninsula

Started by considerations, May 06, 2008, 07:25:20 PM

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MountainDon

Rethinking what I said above... I suppose is all the measurements along and across the beams were dead on, then taking a section anywhere along the length would be okay. After all the beams aren't going to stretch or shrink, not much anyways.

It's just that I know anytime you're doing anything in sections there's usually more chance for errors to be introduced.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

glenn kangiser

I''m just wondering if you are at a point where perfect matters yet.  Not meaning , don't do it but rather, if you are at a point where you can hold it all.

I didn't have time to read all of the above well but seems you jut have the post and beams in.  Once you have them pretty close as you did it may be time to start getting some joists and rim joists up there soyou have a way to keep it after you knock it into shape with a few hammer blows - then once you can hold it, get some diagonal bracing either temporary or permanent on there.

PEG supersedes anything I have to say. :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.


Redoverfarm

considerations I normally work with foundations rather than piers but square is square regardless.  I usually find that the best place to start is with a builders square.  Getting the four corners fairly square with this usually just means to "tweak" it diagonally after the rough is obtained.  As far as sectional squareness I agree that it leaves too much variation.  This can be accomplished with string lines from one end to the other after the peremeter squareness is obtained and braced to avoid movement.  

I usually find that 2X (consistent with the width of the beam) material across the end held with deck screws works really well to to get the corners sqaure coming off the beams to the 2X material. It will also allow adjustments without prying and banging such as nails. Once it is really close a small piece of scrap to form 45 deg from the top of the beam to my brace material( across the end of beams) will hold it in place.  Then worry about the interior beam locations wioth the sting approach or measurements.  The only down side that I could imagine would be that your four corners could be sqaure but the interior piers would not be alligned or the same difference across.  

As a added little rough in trick is the 3-4-5 rule.  Meaning if you measured one run 3' and the opposite direction(from the corner) 4' then the diagonal from thoise two points would be 5'.  Make sense?

PEG688

#53
 What Red said , decide which beam you like best where it sits.

Pull a string full length , use 1/2" (or so) spacers to move the line away from the beam , then use another similar spacer to check the beam for straight. This string line technique will come in handy all the way along once you have it down. Two nails on each end , one to hook the bitter end on ( end of the line) then one nail positioned a close by thats bent so the string when pulled tight will ALWAYS snub right in tight against the spacer block . If it's to straight or bent the "wrong " way the line will creep out away from the spacer giving you a bad reading. 

  Once at the other end , again use two nails , wrap / twist the string around you finger about 4 times , then hook that "loop" on one of the nails , use that twist to pull the string tight , very tight it should make a noise when you flick the line  sorta like a guitar string. then just a  couple of 1/2 hitches around the same nail and the line stays tight . Then pull it up and over the other bent nail , same deal bent so the string has to slid down tight against the spacer block .

Now straighten that beam out , you can do the same thing across the top of the beam to see that it's as straight as possible , due to crowns it may NOT be perfect. But where you can , at the joints it should be flat / straight down the side and across the top.

Once thats done you pre cut 2x4 should or will pull the other side pretty close to straight.

Then all you need to do is shift the second beam line until your diagonal measurement is the same .

Like I said if you tell me the over all length and width (outside to outside) I can tell you the diagonal dimension you should have.

  For instance IF your beam length is 24' and width is 8' your diagonal measurement will be 25' - 3 9/16 "   or 303 9/16"



You may need to shift both beam , I know  , so that you stay on your pier pads , if so , get it close  , then set one beam perfect , then adjust the second

to get your diagonal measurement tweaked in.

Simple eh , now IF you had set the pier pad holes closer you'd not have this issue , or as much of one anyway.

Thats why starting right HELPS thru out the whole project . Dirt work suck IMO thats why doing it as close as possible the first time saves doing it over.
 
When in doubt , build it stout with something you know about .

Willy

Some times it helps to use some screws instead of nails at this point. Hitting the boards with a hammer can knock it out of allinement. Drill a hole and set the screw tight then when all is right nail the crap out of it. Drill the joists undersized for the nail that holds them to the beams then it is easy to nail them on with out the joist moving around. Watch those lazer levels they can give you a bad reading if it isn't a real expencive one. The red line gets bigger the further you are away. Even if the beams are a little out of square the floor joists and flooring plywood can bring it into square sitting on the beams. The most important part is having the beams level. You do need to be square & level as best as you can right from the start or things get worse as you build up. Plywood will give you a big hassle installing it because it "IS" square and needs to be nailed to a square building! Flooring with lines will show out of square on finish, walls longer on one side will make cabnits, counter tops ect not fit. The list goes on and on just because the begining foundation is off on a building. Mark


Redoverfarm

Check with the lazer level also to determine if there is an offset from the base to the light beam.  Although not that much sometimes but these things as Willy had stated have a way of growing and growing and growing as it climbs. String lines can also be used to raise the interior portion of the beams same as the parrallel sides as Pegg explained and I mentioned earlier.

In respects to deck screws.  It has become an intrigual part of any of my projects as it allows for readjustments where as nails prove to be more permanent when the time was not right to be permanent.  Not so much with framing of walls but things that might require adjustments later on.  There is some exceptions like when I screwed locust post to braces for my porch and then couldn't get them out.  I managed though but it is lesson I will not recommit to again. 

considerations

Quote from: PEG688 on June 07, 2008, 11:44:37 PM

Whats you total beam length and the distance (outside to outside) of the beam? I can tell you what your  diagonal dimension should be.

the beams are 24' (2 12's) long and from outside edge to outside edge is 120". 

You all are right, I have been working on the first "12 x 10'" part first, because one of those beams sort of "wows".  I thought if I could get that section right, the other would be easi(er).  Sounds like not, like I should be looking at the whole picture at once.  That may help. 


The laser "level".  I have no idea if it is expensive or not.  My neighbor lent it to me, it sits on a tripod and whirls.  If the receiver on the large accompanying ruler is hit by the beam, it shrieks, to high it beeps fast, too low beeps slow.  I used it to get started, and the 6' level and the 4' level back up the findings. 

I'll make plenty of problems for myself as the project goes on, I don't need this to be one.

So, I'm going to use all the replies you kind folk have sent, and fuss with this until it's right.  I barely got the chores done today b-4 settling in to beat a work deadline, but will be at it tommorrow with all this additional info.

Thanks to all of you, I'll let you know how it turns out.

Just for fun I named my grandpa's sledghammer, the "Sledgident"...I've been feeling very "Sledgidental" the last few days, bonking here, smacking there, not a bad way to make an impression.  ;D

PEG688

Quote from: considerations on June 08, 2008, 06:56:47 PM
Quote from: PEG688 on June 07, 2008, 11:44:37 PM

Whats you total beam length and the distance (outside to outside) of the beam? I can tell you what your  diagonal dimension should be.

the beams are 24' (2 12's) long and from outside edge to outside edge is 120". 


26' even or 312". Thats your number , are you sure the beam "Net out" / actually measure  / right on 24 feet? If you have NOT cut them they may be a bit longer as beams and longer lengths of framing lumber can be a fudge long , say 1/2" to 3/4" as a "rough" rule.   
When in doubt , build it stout with something you know about .

MountainDon

I was pre-cutting assorted lumber for a shed today.

The support/skid beams are 6x6 PT, 8 foot long. One was 1 full inch longer and the other 5/8 of an inch longer.

The PT 2x6 floor joists were a nominal 8 foot length. Most were about 1/4 inch longer, but one was over an inch longer.

The SPF 2x4's, not PT, were much better; most right on the money, but even there one 12 footer was 3/4 inch longer.

It always pays to measure everything exactly.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


considerations

Square - 26' 0" just like you said, both diagonals.  Had to stop and get to work on the real job. 



Used the same tape to measure everything, and the sledge hammer to get it right.  Don't worry, those diagonals sticking out at both ends are just to make it hold still while I get the posts all perfectly vertical.  Then I do the final (for this stage) leveling, and make real cross braces. 

Thanks for all the coaching.  It really helps.

Redoverfarm

Way to go Considerations.  Just needed a little TLC and tweaked.  Now once you get the joist and decking it should be good to go and not move. 

John_C

I hope you took a bit of time to do a happy dance.

Nice going :)

considerations

Didn't dance much, but I'm definitely building a shrine to the sun and rain gods.  Going to try to keep them both happy so I can GET ON WITH IT.

2 days with my nose pressed to the window looking at a good ole November monsoon....yagh. 

Actually, I'm beaming.    [slap]  (ouch!)

ScottA

Good job.  :D Only a few thousand nails to go.  d*


considerations

I'll start counting,  from now on....I promise....do I have to deduct the ones I have to pull out?


Redoverfarm

Don't worry about counting the nails.  Now is the time to start counting the $$$$.  It is sort of like a snowball from here on out.  ;)

considerations

darn, I wanted to count the nails. 


ScottA

You might better not. I put in over 300 today alone.

considerations

The progress is hard to see, but the first "real" cross braces are in, all the little piers are on their pads, all the brackets and straps have all the holes filled with nails.  Inching along.



All carefully watched over by the resident supervisors.


Sassy

Very good!  And I like your supervisors - they look to be pretty reasonable  c*
http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/

You will know the truth & the truth will set you free


ScottA

I don't feel like the slowest builder any more.  heh Go Go GO considerations  d*

considerations

Yep, i'm slow and it's driving me crazy.  [frus]  But, I at least I didnt foul up a bunch of PT lumber figuring out the angle cuts for the cross braces.  THAT would have been bad.  Got it on the first try.

Tommorrow I have to take my Mother to to see my niece who just returned from 15 months in Iraq.  Probably should leave the Geiger counter at home, ya suppose? 

I could tear my hair out.  I love my family, but geez!


considerations

Quote from: Sassy on June 13, 2008, 12:42:26 PM
Very good!  And I like your supervisors - they look to be pretty reasonable  c*

As long as there is food

glenn kangiser

Quote from: considerations on June 13, 2008, 04:28:40 PM
Yep, i'm slow and it's driving me crazy.  [frus]  But, I at least I didnt foul up a bunch of PT lumber figuring out the angle cuts for the cross braces.  THAT would have been bad.  Got it on the first try.

Tommorrow I have to take my Mother to to see my niece who just returned from 15 months in Iraq.  Probably should leave the Geiger counter at home, ya suppose? 

I could tear my hair out.  I love my family, but geez!



Right on leaving the geiger counter home.  You might watch her for DU contamination problems.  They are pretty common now even though the military  down play and won't talk about them..
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Willy

Quote from: ScottA on June 13, 2008, 12:54:06 PM
I don't feel like the slowest builder any more.  heh Go Go GO considerations  d*
Careful Dons going to pass you soon, you better keep working on your cabin! Mark